At a Crossroad

[Phoenix]

I'm currently having a dilemma when it comes to my dancing. I started taking lessons at AM 14 months ago. The purpose was for exercise and because I'd always wanted to learn how to dance.

Over the past year as I fell more in love with dancing, and established an excellent working relationship with my instructor, I began competing in local comps and one small out-of-town comp. They were fun and I enjoyed the social atmosphere.

A few weeks ago I competed in Las Vegas at AM's World Dance-o-Rama. I danced 114 heats, plus call-backs and a solo. At the Associate Bronze level, ("B" Class, i.e. over age 50) I placed 1st in All Around, and won Top Student. However, this came at a very high emotional and physical price. Leading up to and during the competition, my instructor became demanding, almost to the point of abusive. I let it continue because I wanted to do my very best at the comp. Although he congratulated me and praised my performance, I still felt like a trained seal - clapping my flippers and balancing a ball for the audience. The whole experience was extremely stressful. I did not have fun.

Now I don't know what I want to do or why I should continue taking lessons. There are certainly few opportunities for true social dancing, and if I decide not to compete, what's the point in continuing to the full bronze level? I've always held to the belief that anything worth doing is worth doing to the best of your ability. Any advice? Thanks!!!

[dTas]

how about taking lessons to be a dancer?

are there no social dancing opportunities where you live?

one reason why i love dancing is to be able to take my wife out and sweep her off her feet.

[LucyDiamond]

How about taking lessons just because it's fun?

[LucyDiamond]

Let me add that if to have fun means getting a new instructor then so be it. I am over 50 and dance because it's fun. Competitions and showcases are secondary. Once studying dance becomes not fun, I won't do it anymore. Not that there aren't frustrating times, but that's part of the learning process. There's nothing like the feeling of finally getting something that has been a struggle and frustrating. IMHO

[SmoothGuy]

I've been dancing for 12 months now and lately I've been asking myself more frequently "why am I dancing"? I went into it clear in my mind that I was doing it for social dancing. I've been fortunate enough to be paired up with a teacher who's training me as if I was going into competitions. I also like to do things to the best of my ability and now am wondering if I should be doing competitions? It was never part of my plan, but if it turns out that I'm good enough to compete, why not compete? Even if I don't, I still have the personal satisfaction that I could go to a wedding and outdance 95% of the other guests.

[Sagitta]

That's what I like doing as well. And when I'm dating someone who is a non-dancer the thrill they get is amazing! And what one learns is never completely lost.

One can still do one's best, but at a slower pace, you know. Perhaps that's what you need, a slower pace. Fewer competitions so there isn't as much pressure.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Well, I think it takes more effort to get ready to competitions compared to getting better to meet your own goals. I definitely increased intensity of everything dance-related once I started to compete. I specialized in smooth and standard, so I usually do about 30 heats and don't bother going for top student.

[chocolate-eyes]

Frankly I don't see why there should be an "associate bronze" program before the bronze program anyway but that's just me. Try to not do anything where you start to be so stressed out that you hate dance. Take some time off and do what you want/need to do and do it they way you feel you need it done and don't let anyone push you around and be abusive. We pay teachers to teach us. Just because they are our teachers does not mean they own us. Some teachers seem to think that's what it means to teach which is not at all true. There's always that fine line you have to be able to discern, please do what is right for yourself and be strong enough to back it up.

[quixotedlm]

I placed 1st in All Around, and won Top Student. However, this came at a very high emotional and physical price.

I actually agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread, that you should carefully consider if it is worthwhile to do something that's not much fun. That said...

Acheivements are always pricey, typically extracting much payment out of your body, mind and heart. That's one constant across the board - regardless of what arena you are racing in. If I were competing and wanting to win, I'd want your instructor or someone like that - someone willing to push me beyond my limits, beyond what I'd imagined was ever possible, someone a.r. enough to never stop prodding and demanding. Because when we dream a dream, we rarely understand how hard we'd have to work to make it real, except having a vague understanding that it would be hard. It's the job of coaches and instructors that we hire to see us through that hard work, and make us accountable to our dreams no matter how insane the path might feel. That's exactly what your instructor did. By signing up for competitions, you implicitly expressed the desire for victory (or else why compete? by definition, the point of competitions is victory). And in coaching towards high acheivements, "nice" and "harsh" are both legit tools, to be used at the discretion of the coach, not the coached.

[Phoenix]

Quix, I understand what you mean about coaches and pushing beyond what we believe we are capable of. I will always be grateful to this man for doing just that. He pulled things out of me I never knew were there and gave me confidence to achieve many more things in my life. However, I guess I need to evaluate whether I want to have a coach/athlete relationship rather than an instructor/student relationship.

dTas and Lucy, thanks for the affirmation that I should just continue to study dance for the sheer joy of it. After all, we take music lessons, or art lessons, etc. without the goal of becoming world class. I appreciate the perspective.

[Spitfire]

Phoenix, when you say there are few opportunities for social dancing do you mean that social dances are not held that often or few in attendance or maybe both?

I would want to concentrate more on social dancing which is much less strict.

[catsmeow]

Phoenix: You must have been exhausted after 114 heats. I too did something similar in my early learning years with American style studios and won top student. Little did I know that I won because of the number of heats I entered and not because I was an accomplished dancer. Alll I did was make money for my so called "qualified American style teacher". May I suggest you drop out of American style and the scam that hangs over it like a cloud and enter into International style. Take few lessons per month with top notch teachers. Have fun practising at social events with as many different partners as possible. When and if you are ready, try a competition at the very lowest entry level with another amateur partner who loves dancing as much as you.

[DennisBeach]

Now I don't know what I want to do or why I should continue taking lessons. There are certainly few opportunities for true social dancing, and if I decide not to compete, what's the point in continuing to the full bronze level? I've always held to the belief that anything worth doing is worth doing to the best of your ability. Any advice? Thanks!!!


Have you checked into social dance opportunities. We live in southeast Wisconsin and have discovered that are lot's of places that have real ballroom dancing. In places ranging from church halls to real ballrooms. Some of our friends go ballroom dancing Friday, saturday and Sunday each weekend. There are also a lot of ballroom dance clubs, which provide even more opportunities to ballroom dance. Most of these dances have a mix of couples and singles. The singles get to do a lot of dancing, with a variety of partners.

[fascination]

regardless of coach/ athlete or instructor/ student mutual respect is neccessary....sometimes you have to push back....have fun or don't do it...there are far cheaper ways to be miserable and mistreated....and people can pull things out of you and be tough on you while letting you know how proud they are and how much they beleive in you...

[Rugby]

The best way to meet and get the girl is to be able to dance. :banana: Go to a dance and watch which man the ladies dance with. I know some guys that have met women that would usually never consider talking to them let alone dancing with them if they didn't know how to dance. I'm sure the same may be said about women. I remember when some of us would go out to the singles dances to get a floor to practice on. My partner and my dad, who was in his late 60's had all the women after them to dance. Quite a few young guys were wondering why all these women wanted to dance with a guy that old when they were there and less than half his age. The answer, besides the fact that he was a good looking guy, was that he could dance circles around the young guys. Knowing how to dance is a huge advantage for men. Unless you have a girlfriend or are married, then the being chick magnet thing may be a tad of a problem.

[Rugby]

Phoenix: You must have been exhausted after 114 heats. I too did something similar in my early learning years with American style studios and won top student. Little did I know that I won because of the number of heats I entered and not because I was an accomplished dancer. Alll I did was make money for my so called "qualified American style teacher". May I suggest you drop out of American style and the scam that hangs over it like a cloud and enter into International style. Take few lessons per month with top notch teachers. Have fun practising at social events with as many different partners as possible. When and if you are ready, try a competition at the very lowest entry level with another amateur partner who loves dancing as much as you.
Same thing happened to my dad and I. Thousands of dollars latter we realized we were just making our instructors money and we were nothing but cash cows. My dad's instructor was a jerk to him too. She even told he and another guy not to embarass her by dancing poorly. She acted like she was doing them a favour but forgot that she was a well paid hired hand working for them. She convinced my dad to spend a great deal of money even though he could not afford it. She was pushing him hard not for him but to line her own pockets when he would win her money. You don't have to drop American style but dump the cash cow c**p that your instructor may be pulling on you. American style has gotten a bad name up here because of this attitude. Watch that your instructor is not buttering you up and telling you how good you are just to get you to spend the bucks on and for him. If you are having fun fine but don't be pressured. Make sure you are in competitions for you, not your instructor.

[latingal]

Pheonix, are competitions something you do to keep your interest and help you acheive your goals in dancing? I ask this because we all have different goals in our dance lives. Would you be happy just social dancing, or do you wish to have the challenge of competitions?

If you do wish to continue with the challenge of competitions (I find I need competitions to help me gauge my progress and keep me motivated), I would encourage you to find an instructor whose style compliments your personality and the way you learn best. Though you mentioned your current coach helped you to become a better dancer, if in the end his methods drive you away from dancing - it came at a very high price.

Many people here do well with the drill sargent mentality of some coaches, I personally do not. I learn better and enjoy my dancing much more if I have a coach that takes a more scholarly approach. Dancing is an expensive hobby and sport, it should be fun and rewarding. I hope that you will find a way to make sure that the instruction you receive keeps you moving forward and feeling good about your dancing.

Good luck!

[Joe]

You can be scammed just as easily in Int'l Style as you can in American.

[fascination]

why on earth people let their love of dance (present company included) completely obscure their own ability to expect common decency is a mystery I intend to unravel

[Phoenix]

You have all given me fantastic advice and I have taken it to heart. To clarify, there are opportunities for social dancing, but many of them are geared toward couples, or they are pick-up joints. Besides, I'm spoiled - I enjoy dancing with a good partner. And, I don't want to date right now.

The coaching aspect was fine. I did do better than I expected with his pushing. It was my instructor's lack of sensitivity when I was exhausted and needing a hug and a few seconds of sympathy that I objected to. He's still defensive about the situation. He just doesn't get it and doesn't want to hear my feelings.

Yes, I realize that I have been a cash cow. I understand the game and played along. That's why I'm re-evaluating and trying to set new goals. Competing was supposed to be fun. I believe it will be again - with a different instructor. After more than a year of dancing together, it's like going through a divorce. I will grieve for the relationship we used to have, but I think it's time to move on.

Thank you so much for your input and support!!!

[DancinAnne]

how about taking lessons to be a dancer?

are there no social dancing opportunities where you live?

one reason why i love dancing is to be able to take my wife out and sweep her off her feet.

That's one of the nicest things I've ever heard... your wife is truly lucky to have you!!

[Me]

Phoenix I was very happy to read your last post. It sounds to me like you have a level head on your shoulders. You respect yourself and have the guts to leave - many weaklings just keep taking the abuse, or they just crawl away and quit dancing completely. I am glad that you aren't letting this one experience with this one professional turn you off to ballroom.

It is unfortunate that there are some 'bad apples' or at least 'not-so-great' apples that cause students to distrust all professionals. We've got one local guy who seems determined to do just exactly that - he has a lot of 'one hit wonder' students for competition and it is because of EXACTLY what you described - he burns them out on too many heats, they walk away exhausted and when they look back, regret not having fun and regret the expense. Sadly, many of them quit afterwards.

So see? You're not alone. It happens everywhere. I'm just glad you aren't QUITTING like I've seen so many do.

I noticed you are from Texas. I will ask my coach if he has any recommendations for great instructors there.

[gingerbread]

If you live in Houston by any chance, I would suggest the studio run by Rosendo Fumero or Rosendo himself. His contact information is listed on the NDCA website directory.

[dTas]

Rosendo is great. he knows his stuff and is not a money grubber.

[dTas]

That's one of the nicest things I've ever heard... your wife is truly lucky to have you!!

thanks DancinAnne,

it took me the longest time to realize that this is why i love to dance.

[evanluck]

You have all given me fantastic advice and I have taken it to heart. To clarify, there are opportunities for social dancing, but many of them are geared toward couples, or they are pick-up joints. Besides, I'm spoiled - I enjoy dancing with a good partner. And, I don't want to date right now.

The coaching aspect was fine. I did do better than I expected with his pushing. It was my instructor's lack of sensitivity when I was exhausted and needing a hug and a few seconds of sympathy that I objected to. He's still defensive about the situation. He just doesn't get it and doesn't want to hear my feelings.

Yes, I realize that I have been a cash cow. I understand the game and played along. That's why I'm re-evaluating and trying to set new goals. Competing was supposed to be fun. I believe it will be again - with a different instructor. After more than a year of dancing together, it's like going through a divorce. I will grieve for the relationship we used to have, but I think it's time to move on.

Thank you so much for your input and support!!!

An important thing to realize when looking for a quality instructor that you are going to compete pro-am with is that they understand that they will be wearing two different hats. To dance competitively you need a partner and a coach. The two people have two very distinct roles and should interact with you in different ways. Your partner should do as little "coaching" as possible and interact with you by expressing what his needs are in the context of the partnership and ask you how he can better fulfill your needs. Your coach on the other hand is supposed to use different methods to get the best dancing out of both you and your partner.

A big mistake that some dance instructors who compete pro-am make is that they never switch hats or are unaware that they should be wearing different hats. They are constantly wearing the coach hat even up to the point of the day of competition when very little if any "coaching" is actually effective. When you are stuck with a partner who insists on coaching you all the time you begin to resent it.

Best of luck on finding a situation that will work for you. Don't be afraid to clearly communicate your needs to your instructor or studio manager. Studios, particularly franchise studios tend to create an atmosphere where people seem unwilling to clearly communicate what they want and strongly assert they rights as a consumer. Remember you are the customer and you should be calling the shots.

God Bless,

Evan

-----
If life is a dance, then God is the music.

[fascination]

If you live in Houston by any chance, I would suggest the studio run by Rosendo Fumero or Rosendo himself. His contact information is listed on the NDCA website directory.
I whole-heartedly endorse that idea