What? Pardon?

[Pacion]

As some of you may have heard (it was and still is front page news and all the radio/television news here! :?) Prince William and his long-standing girlfriend of four years (duration, not age ;) have split up.

One article I just read said that her mother made some social errors (faux pas), including saying 'Pardon' instead of 'What'. This is contrary to what I grew up with/was taught which was it was a social error/rude to say 'What' and it was more polite to say 'Pardon?' or 'Excuse me?'

Which do you say or in your part of the world, is the 'correct' thing to say?

Oh, and just for GR ;) I have to add this piece from the Wiki definition ;)

Faux pas vary widely from culture to culture and what is considered good manners (http://66.102.9.104/wiki/Manners) in one culture can be considered a faux pas in another.

[tj]

Huh? :tongue:

[Pacion]

:lol: that is why I luurrve you TJ :tongue: :lol:

[tj]

:kissme:

[BM]

I didn't know that there was a difference! I try to use "pardon?" or "sorry?" over "what?" when I can, but I've never been rapped on the knuckles for using one instead of the other.

[samina]

i thought 'pardon' was just as polite a substitute for 'what' in the UK as in the US...

[Pacion]

i thought 'pardon' was just as polite a substitute for 'what' in the UK as in the US...

Weeeellll, that is what I would have thought. But, it seems 'in the upper classes' of UK society, 'pardon' is a no-no :?

I am wondering if it has something to do with only the King/Queen being able to 'pardon' someone whether there is a ? at the end of it or not is irrelevant?

Where is GR when I really need him! ;) :lol:

[fascination]

well, usually I just stand there and look bewildered...I am expressive enough that I don't have to say either...but...if I was w/ family, I'd probably say huh, or what and if I was in public I would probably say "I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that"

[Cal]

Weeeellll, that is what I would have thought. But, it seems 'in the upper classes' of UK society, 'pardon' is a no-no :?

:

I remember reading Jilly Cooper's "Class", which was a tongue-in-cheek discussion of the differences in class in Britain. She wrote it in the '70s, I believe, adn targeted language, dress, houses, education, etc. And, as decribed in that book, it was very "lower-middle-class" to say "pardon." As I recall, in her book, the upper-middles said either "sorry" or "sorry?" or possibly "excuse me?"

(Also, for what's it's worth, from what I recall in Jilly Cooper's other books, ballroom dancing may have fallen into a "nouveau-riche" category.)

I hope that no one gets bent out of shape - Jilly Cooper's books are humor - for Americans, the equivalent writer would probably be Erma Bombeck.

[fascination]

IAnd, as decribed in that book, it was very "lower-middle-class" to say "pardon." As I recall, in her book, the upper-middles said either "sorry" or "sorry?" or possibly "excuse me?"

.
ooo...a tiny little bit of class, albeit on accident...I will take it:rolleyes:

[Dancebug]

My DH says "who?" instead of "what?" He believes who is more polite than what. Go figure.

[SlowDancer]

I can't believe that "what?" would be considered more polite than "pardon?"...weird...how about "I beg your pardon?" Kind of old fashioned but I love the way it sounds. I use it when someone has asked me a question that I don't want to answer because it's none of the asker's frickin' business.

[Pacion]

I can't believe that "what?" would be considered more polite than "pardon?"...weird...how about "I beg your pardon?" Kind of old fashioned but I love the way it sounds. I use it when someone has asked me a question that I don't want to answer because it's none of the asker's frickin' business.

rotfl! :lol: That was running through my mind BEFORE I reached your final sentence - when I myself would use such a phrase. :lol:

[Ron Obvious]

I've also been taught not to say "what", because it's impolite, and instead use something like I'm sorry or excuse me. This seems to apply to other languages as well (quoi, que, was, va',...).

I've never heard that pardon could be considered impolite. In Spanish it's at least common to say perdón.

[Joe]

ooo...a tiny little bit of class, albeit by accident...I will take it:rolleyes:
;)

[fascination]

are you making fun of me again?....I am opting to define that as a sign of affection

[spectator]

It's definately "What?"
"Pardon" is what one says after breaking wind or belching, especially when drunk. Nothing to do with royalty. If you say "i beg your pardon" to someone properly posh they'll think you are a bit gross/common same result.
The classless get out I have always used is "Sorry...?"

[Pacion]

"Sorry etc etc" it definitely is then ;)

As for breaking wind or belching, no one does that do they, even when drunk :? :lol:

(Never been drunk :lol:)

[tj]

This thread reminds me of that ol' Steve Martin punchline/catch phrase:

"Well, excuuuuuuuuuse me!"
;) :p

[spectator]

The old stereotype:
The upper class and working class always get on very well because of
a. absence of manners
b. absence of sobriety
c. absence of education

blah blah blah ad nauseum

ettiquette and "manners" is bourgeois nonsense, made up by the middle classes to help with their social climbing and elitism. However it can be fun watching them getting all twisted up over whether it's more acceptable to say "toilet" or "lavatory" I bet you the Queen or whoever doesn't really give a toss whether La Middleton senior said "pardon"-it's only an issue in Tunbridge Wells because the Daily Mail says it's an issue.

being polite is not the same as having manners.

[Pacion]

being polite is not the same as having manners.

:applause:

However it can be fun watching them getting all twisted up over whether it's more acceptable to say "toilet" or "lavatory" I bet you the Queen or whoever doesn't really give a toss whether La Middleton senior said "pardon"-it's only an issue in Tunbridge Wells because the Daily Mail says it's an issue.

Actually, I think these things are of interest in ALL cultures, perhaps helped/hindered by movies such as My Fair Lady and Pretty Woman - the only two that immediately come to mind! One comment I recall reading said - manners is about making people feel comfortable.

Personally, I really dislike using the word "lavatory" as much as I dislike using the word "loo". I use the phrase "the ladies/cloak (room)" even if I know the place has unisex facilities and I don't remember where they are.

[spectator]

No Mammes Guey!

[Pacion]

No Mammes Guey!

Am confused! :lol:

[tj]

On a somewhat related note, I practically got run over in the parking lot this morning as I was walking out of the local coffee shop.

The woman, who was on the phone with one hand, holding her coffee with the other hand, and apparently steering with some other mechanism than her hands, at least had the decency to apologize to me (her window was down, having just left the drive-thru).

Made me feel better at least, since if this had happened to me in certain other cities, I'd likely been flipped off if I gave a disapproving look like I did this morning.

[spectator]

Gotta love that Southern Charm....

[Genesius Redux]

The only time I ever say "Pardon" is when the subtext is "You just said what???????"

But usually, that turns into "Excuse me?" Posed as a definite question.

However, I sometimes say "I beg your pardon" when people are standing like a bunch of stupid sheep blocking access to some place and totally oblivious of everyone else. In that case, tone and body language can usually indicate how long I've been waiting for these dimwits to move.

As for Bonny Prince Billy. Well, we don't have Royals in America. Oh, that would be except for W, and Jane his Wife, his boy Elroy and daughter Judy. VP Strangelove doesn't count.

[spectator]

Another thing... am I the only one in the world who thinks Wills and Harry are ugly?

[Pacion]

If I had to choose one of them, instead of Mick Jagger or Rod Stewart, I would choose "Wills or Harry". (I am not greedy, hence the or instead of the and! :banana: :lol:

But, on the other hand, we wouldn't stand a chance as I 'disapprove' of drunkenly behaviour and displays of such blantant lack of self responsibility and potentially endangering OTHERS lives when they show such lack of care for their own (Harry most often but we shall see how Wills turns out, now that he is FREE* * his words apparently)

[tj]

If I had to choose one of them, instead of Mick Jagger or Rod Stewart, I would choose "Wills or Harry".

And yet, the two former were both married to famous "Super-models".

What an odd place the world is, "huh"? :rolleyes: ;)

[spectator]

I spent a few years in Colchester and Cambridge and I can say with confidence (from observation!!!): (RugbyxPolo)+Barracks/(time spent at Sandhurst) = One big load of vomit and a permanant ban from most pubs in the area.
You've gotta laugh at least they're not dressing up as historically inaccurate Nazis anymore.

[Pacion]

You've gotta laugh at least they're not dressing up as historically inaccurate Nazis anymore.

...or making racist comments about the French, or anyone else for that matter even if Prince Philip, who often puts his whole leg in his mouth more than just a foot (!), is their grandfather!

I 'watch with interest' to see how things will evolve when the Queen passes on. I saw a brilliant play years ago in the West End (theatre area of London) where the Royal Family were moved out of Buckingham Palace and moved into council housing (social housing). I believe Prince Charles and Princess Diana had already separate, possibly divorced (?) and the whole monarchy seemed to be in a downward spiral.

[fascination]

Another thing... am I the only one in the world who thinks Wills and Harry are ugly?ugly is a strong word...they don't do it for me but ...no...not ugly

[fascination]

giggle if I giggled

[Dave Bailey]

One article I just read said that her mother made some social errors (faux pas), including saying 'Pardon' instead of 'What'. This is contrary to what I grew up with/was taught which was it was a social error/rude to say 'What' and it was more polite to say 'Pardon?' or 'Excuse me?'
Personally, I grew up to despise all royals and to fervently hope for their exile to a slum in southeast London - along with all their useless chinless-wonder hangers-on. Actually, on second thoughts just shoot the hangers-on.

Nationalise Buck House, sell of Windsor Castle, rant rant etc.... Ahem.

If you want to see the ugly unreconstructed side of the British Class system, just watch the people who surround William and Harry, and the nasty things they say and do.

I mean, for God's sake, who holds a "Colonials and Natives" theme party? What's that all about?

(/rant}

I 'watch with interest' to see how things will evolve when the Queen passes on.
Funny how the Americans like our Royal Family and the British despise them, innit? :D

Another thing... am I the only one in the world who thinks Wills and Harry are ugly?
They're nothing special - remember they've got some of the best grooming and clothing advice on the planet, but when they're paparazzi-d unawares they just look like 2 normal young men.

[Pacion]

Nationalise Buck House, sell of Windsor Castle, rant rant etc.... Ahem.

:shock: God lord noooo! Nationalise Buck Pal (Buckingham Palace) and you will have the Prime Minister using it at will AND tax payers will have to bear the cost! I have a feeling we don't as part of an arrangement the Queen has re paying taxes? Or maybe I am confusing myself with all the palaces around :? (What with Westminister aka the Houses of Parliament being a palace and all)

I say : wink : turn in into a glamourous salsa venue! :banana: All that wonderful marble, the chandeliers, the gardens and the lake! Oh the lake! Just imagine, the acostics alround. Wonderful! :lol:

[pruthe]

:applause:



Actually, I think these things are of interest in ALL cultures, perhaps helped/hindered by movies such as My Fair Lady and Pretty Woman - the only two that immediately come to mind! One comment I recall reading said - manners is about making people feel comfortable.



We regularly watch the British show 'Keeping Up Appearances" on US public broadcasting system (PBS). The character Hyacinth is constantly trying to impress neighbors and friends as being upper class. Poor husband Richard is totally hen-pecked. I think this show is very popular in US.

[spectator]

We regularly watch the British show 'Keeping Up Appearances" on US public broadcasting system (PBS). The character Hyacinth is constantly trying to impress neighbors and friends as being upper class. Poor husband Richard is totally hen-pecked. I think this show is very popular in US.

Is that still on anywhere? I remember watching that in the early 90s and it was hideously old fashioned then! It's all about footballers wives these days - they're the new royalty.

I heard you're getting Holly Oakes instead of K Up A on BBC America. Holly-Oakes Rocks! it's amazing! I wanted to run away from home and be an extra in it when I was 20!

[pruthe]

Is that still on anywhere? I remember watching that in the early 90s and it was hideously old fashioned then! It's all about footballers wives these days - they're the new royalty.

I heard you're getting Holly Oakes instead of K Up A on BBC America. Holly-Oakes Rocks! it's amazing! I wanted to run away from home and be an extra in it when I was 20!

I checked BBC America web site. K Up A is still listed there. Its also on PBS. Didn't see anything about Holly Oakes. Is that name of show? Did see something called Footballer Wives, although I've never seen it. Not sure British football related show would go over that well in US since American football is so different.

Reason we like K Up A is its so corny that its funny. We watch it over and over. I remember one episode placed on QE2 where there was some dancing scenes in ship's ballroom. Onslow was dancing different moves with ladies and Hyacinth was shocked.

[Dave Bailey]

Did see something called Footballer Wives, although I've never seen it. Not sure British football related show would go over that well in US since American football is so different.
There's a US version of this being planned - "Footnall wives (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0925237/)" -
with Lucy Lawless :)

Reason we like K Up A is its so corny that its funny. We watch it over and over.
Some people in the US like Benny Hill too... :rolleyes:

[Dave Bailey]

:shock: God lord noooo! Nationalise Buck Pal (Buckingham Palace) and you will have the Prime Minister using it at will AND tax payers will have to bear the cost! I have a feeling we don't as part of an arrangement the Queen has re paying taxes?
Nope, the taxpayers foot the bill for the palaces.

The queen also owns lots of palaces privately (e.g. Balmoral, worth £160 million apparently), and the Duchy of Lancaster, which is worth over £300 million.

That's my money, and I want it back...

I say : wink : turn in into a glamourous salsa venue! :banana: All that wonderful marble, the chandeliers, the gardens and the lake! Oh the lake! Just imagine, the acostics alround. Wonderful! :lol:
Now there's a plan :)

[Genesius Redux]

Funny how the Americans like our Royal Family and the British despise them, innit? :D


Dude--I don't like your Royal Family. Personally, I think Cromwell had it right 350 years ago.

American royal watchers are a very vocal group, but not indicative of the big picture. What most Americans think about the royals is that they're a quaint joke--trust me on this one.

[DancePoet]

As some of you may have heard (it was and still is front page news and all the radio/television news here! :?) Prince William and his long-standing girlfriend of four years (duration, not age ;) have split up.

One article I just read said that her mother made some social errors (faux pas), including saying 'Pardon' instead of 'What'. This is contrary to what I grew up with/was taught which was it was a social error/rude to say 'What' and it was more polite to say 'Pardon?' or 'Excuse me?'

Which do you say or in your part of the world, is the 'correct' thing to say?

Oh, and just for GR ;) I have to add this piece from the Wiki definition ;)
Hmmm ... I hear and use "what", "pardon me", "excuse me", and "huh" over here.

[DancePoet]

My DH says "who?" instead of "what?" He believes who is more polite than what. Go figure.
Maybe I could try this with the SO's teenaged son? :idea:

Second thought, I doubt it will be an improvement, he didn't understand us before, not sure he'll understand that either. :lol:

[DancePoet]

I can't believe that "what?" would be considered more polite than "pardon?"...weird...how about "I beg your pardon?" Kind of old fashioned but I love the way it sounds. I use it when someone has asked me a question that I don't want to answer because it's none of the asker's frickin' business.
:lol: Cute. :cool:

[Dave Bailey]

Dude--I don't like your Royal Family. Personally, I think Cromwell had it right 350 years ago.
You should try living in the same country as those twits - and paying for them - I'm sure your dislike would turn into disgust quite quickly. :D

Whilst an elected Head of State would probably do a worse job than the current one, at least then we could vote the b&stards out when we got sick of them...

[DancePoet]

As for breaking wind or belching, no one does that do they, even when drunk :? :lol:

(Never been drunk :lol:)
Fishing season hasn't started here yet, but guess it is already time for me to brake out the hip boots. ;)

[DancePoet]

The old stereotype:
The upper class and working class always get on very well because of
a. absence of manners
b. absence of sobriety
c. absence of education

blah blah blah ad nauseum

ettiquette and "manners" is bourgeois nonsense, made up by the middle classes to help with their social climbing and elitism. However it can be fun watching them getting all twisted up over whether it's more acceptable to say "toilet" or "lavatory" I bet you the Queen or whoever doesn't really give a toss whether La Middleton senior said "pardon"-it's only an issue in Tunbridge Wells because the Daily Mail says it's an issue.

being polite is not the same as having manners.
Besides, the only folks who will likely ever know the true reason for a break up are the two that were in it. And they might even choose to pretend that they don't know either. ;)

[DancePoet]

Personally, I really dislike using the word "lavatory" as much as I dislike using the word "loo". I use the phrase "the ladies/cloak (room)" even if I know the place has unisex facilities and I don't remember where they are.
Over here, folks use things like "bathroom", "facilities", "restroom", "men's and woman's room", and I'm likely forgeting a few others.

[Pacion]

"men's and woman's room",

:roll: I know it is a man's world, but where is there a men's room and only a woman's room? :?






:lol: :ladiesma:

[DancePoet]

And yet, the two former were both married to famous "Super-models".

What an odd place the world is, "huh"? :rolleyes: ;)
:lol:

[DancePoet]

... I know it is a man's world, but where is there a men's room and only a woman's room? :?

:lol: :ladiesma:
Ooops. Big Ooops.

Hmmm ... what is my way out of this one? Hmmm ... if I have the courage to enter a women's room, I'm hoping to only find one of them there. ;)

[DancePoet]

Some people in the US like Benny Hill too... :rolleyes:
I'm not a "Benny Hill" fan, but I like "Monty Python's Flying Circus". :D

[DancePoet]

Dude--I don't like your Royal Family. Personally, I think Cromwell had it right 350 years ago.

American royal watchers are a very vocal group, but not indicative of the big picture. What most Americans think about the royals is that they're a quaint joke--trust me on this one.
And, the American media seems to follow them, so I'm sure there is an audience over here, but many of us don't find them to be anything other then human. :cool:

[Genesius Redux]

You should try living in the same country as those twits - and paying for them - I'm sure your dislike would turn into disgust quite quickly. :D

Whilst an elected Head of State would probably do a worse job than the current one, at least then we could vote the b&stards out when we got sick of them...

You should try living in a country with W, and explaining to your international friends how you didn't vote for him....

[spectator]

Hey man, don't worry! The whole world knows (of those who were actually allowed to vote and not road blocked off from their polling station) that a huge number of you didn't vote for him, hence "Hail to the thief" -Radio Head?

[Joe]

Ah, the plebs.

[Dave Bailey]

You should try living in a country with W, and explaining to your international friends how you didn't vote for him....
I thought politics wasn't allowed... :tongue:

Seriously, I'm normally completely relaxed about politics in general, but there's something in me that inherently despises the concept of a Royal Family, with (admittedly very little) actual power, being funded at taxpayer's expense, but unaccountable to the people. And their numpty upper-class twittery, and that of their hangers-on, is enough to turn you socialist sometimes. Grrr...

[Peaches]

You should try living in a country with W, and explaining to your international friends how you didn't vote for him....
Amen.

[spectator]

I thought politics wasn't allowed... :tongue:

Seriously, I'm normally completely relaxed about politics in general, but there's something in me that inherently despises the concept of a Royal Family, with (admittedly very little) actual power, being funded at taxpayer's expense, but unaccountable to the people. And their numpty upper-class twittery, and that of their hangers-on, is enough to turn you socialist sometimes. Grrr...

I don't know, at least they don't have any political power. Imagine if Red Ken moved on from Mayor to Head of state (I love the guy, but I think it might be a step too far... having said that we'd be brilliant mates with most of Latin America!) Or even Jeffrey Archer!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Bailey]

I don't know, at least they don't have any political power.
Technically, that's not totally true - the Queen signs off on Bills (although admittedly that's just rubber-stamping), and could in theory refuse to do so.

Also, the Queen technically "asks" the leader of the majority political party to form a government after a general election. It's not clear what would happen in a hung-parliament situation; presumably she'd ask the leader of the largest party to form a government, but technically it's up to her.

And of course she gives the Queen's speech :)

[Pacion]

I don't know, at least they don't have any political power. Imagine if Red Ken moved on from Mayor to Head of state (I love the guy, but I think it might be a step too far... having said that we'd be brilliant mates with most of Latin America!) Or even Jeffrey Archer!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: Just imagine, the discounted/favoured tourist status we might enjoy with Cuba! We might even be granted honourary citizenships. :lol:

[For those who do not know, 'Red Ken' is Spectator's name for the Mayor of London, Ken Livingston who has a capitalist-socialist or is it socialist-capitalist view on life. He was responsible for bringing in the congestion charge experienced in London (a daily charge of £8 (increased from £5)) for anyone who drives into a certain area/zone of London. This is inspite of Londoners saying they were against it. His idea was to reduce traffic congestion but there was, is and will continue to be full of controvesy with it.]

[spectator]

In that case....... Ken for King!

[Pacion]

:lol: I will help carry his coronation robe, if I get unlimited access to reggaeton music! rotfl!

[bordertangoman]

:roll: I know it is a man's world, but where is there a men's room and only a woman's room? :?






:lol: :ladiesma:

maybe American sign makers can't spell?

[bordertangoman]

While I am ambivalent on the merits of Royalty versus Repulicanism I cannot understand the Media's and the public's obsesession with the Royal Family. There was a half hour programme discussing Prince whassissname's split with thingy - as if it mattered!

[DancePoet]

:lol: Just imagine, the discounted/favoured tourist status we might enjoy with Cuba! We might even be granted honourary citizenships. :lol:

[For those who do not know, 'Red Ken' is Spectator's name for the Mayor of London, Ken Livingston who has a capitalist-socialist or is it socialist-capitalist view on life. He was responsible for bringing in the congestion charge experienced in London (a daily charge of £8 (increased from £5)) for anyone who drives into a certain area/zone of London. This is inspite of Londoners saying they were against it. His idea was to reduce traffic congestion but there was, is and will continue to be full of controvesy with it.]
And here I thought Redken was a line of hair products that the SO uses. :lol:

[DancePoet]

And here I thought Redken was a line of hair products that the SO uses. :lol:
Ooops ... I just checked and it really is! :uplaugh: :uplaugh:

[DancePoet]

maybe American sign makers can't spell?
Or for that matter, American DancePoets. ;) :lol:

[DancePoet]

While I am ambivalent on the merits of Royalty versus Repulicanism I cannot understand the Media's and the public's obsesession with the Royal Family. There was a half hour programme discussing Prince whassissname's split with thingy - as if it mattered!
Ayuh, well over here we have Hollywood stars, and celebraties like Anna Nicole ... whatever her last name was ... :roll: ... oh, right, Smith ... see, as common a last name as that is, and I couldn't recall ... shows how much I've been putting a priority on that. :lol:

Besides, much more important for me to put a priority on better spelling. ;) :lol:

[DancePoet]

Are we having fun over here or what? :D :D :D

[Pacion]

Originally Posted by Pacion
I know it is a man's world, but where is there a men's room and only a woman's room?

:lol: :ladiesma:



maybe American sign makers can't spell?

Or for that matter, American DancePoets.

There I was, giving DP the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was just trying to wind up myself/the other females... reverse flirting ;) lol!

Not sure how our Mayor of London aka 'Red Ken' is going to take, being mistaken for a brand of hair product... when he doesn't have much hair himself! lol!

[spectator]

he'd love it! Anything to see his name in print!

[Bradamant]

Dude--I don't like your Royal Family. Personally, I think Cromwell had it right 350 years ago.


You mean like when he'd offer quarter and then massacre everyone anyway? Cromwell was the biggest slime of all slimety slime. I don't like the royals or the Mass Murderer: I'm Irish.

[Genesius Redux]

You mean like when he'd offer quarter and then massacre everyone anyway? Cromwell was the biggest slime of all slimety slime. I don't like the royals or the Mass Murderer: I'm Irish.

Oh, well if you're gonna bring the Irish into it, there really aren't any good guys, are there? From the time of Henry II on....

But no, I meant his attitude toward Charles I. Like when he got behind the idea that a king with an attitude like that ought to have his head chopped off.

[Genesius Redux]

While I am ambivalent on the merits of Royalty versus Repulicanism I cannot understand the Media's and the public's obsesession with the Royal Family. There was a half hour programme discussing Prince whassissname's split with thingy - as if it mattered!

I just don't think we get anything about Britain. Remember the war over the Falklands? Nobody understood what the Brits were going on about.

But then, I remember when we invaded Grenada. I was coming back to my dorm room. I had been taking a Renaissance History class, and we'd recently been talking about Aragon and Castile. My friend Bryan, who was also in the class, asked me, "So what do you think about the invasion of Grenada?"

I paused. "Um, well," I said after a bit. "I think it was a necessary step for Ferdinand in solidifying the monarchy, or at least it had that long-range effect..."

"No, no," he said. "We just invaded Grenada."

"We invaded Granada?" I asked. "Why would we invade a region of Spain."

"No," he said, "not Granada. Grenada. It's a little island."

I was 20. It was the first I'd heard of it. Those days of the early Reagan regime were just surreal. Shoot, now I feel old.

How did I start talking about this?

[Dave Bailey]

You mean like when he'd offer quarter and then massacre everyone anyway?
??

Cromwell was the biggest slime of all slimety slime.
Perhaps the UK government should apologise for him then, that seems to be in vogue nowdays :)

I don't like the royals or the Mass Murderer: I'm Irish.
Cool - where in Ireland do you dance? I've not found much partner dancing in Ireland, I was in NI a few weeks back but the only good places I found were around Belfast...

[spectator]

Perhaps the UK government should apologise for him then, that seems to be in vogue nowdays :)




err, we're still occupying Northern Ireland... they can't bring themselves to apologise for stuff that's gone on in the last 30 years let alone apologising for the mass slaughter when they annexed it in the first place. That'd be like apologising for slavery, but then still importing goods made in factories using slave labour on a different continent. Oh, silly me...

[Dave Bailey]

err, we're still occupying Northern Ireland...
Getting a bit off-topic here I suspect :)

How did a thread about grammar turn into a discussion of Northen Ireland? :confused:

[Pacion]

Getting back on topic...

Was watching bits of 'Bridget Jones' on television last night. It was the latest one, and there is a scene where Bridget says "what" in response to something her mother said and Bridget's mother said, "not what, say pardon". :? As it is a British film, they wouldn't have had that line, unless it was 'correct', or would they? :roll: :lol:

[Yes, everything I know, I learnt from the television! :lol:]

[Dave Bailey]

Getting back on topic...
Looking up the original quote, I found relevant information from this Times online article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1663063.ece):

Re: Carole Middleton:
She reportedly betrays her humble background by saying “toilet” when she should say “lavatory”, and “pardon?” or even “what?” when she means “I beg your pardon?”. The very mention of her name is said to trigger the chorus “Doors To Manual” among the Prince’s more hoorayish friends, who refer to her as “Mrs Meddleton” for her scheming to get her daughter married into the country’s first family. She is said to have responded “Pleased to meet you” instead of the expected “Hello ma’am” when introduced to the Queen.
The phrase "Who gives a flying f**k" springs to mind...

And people wonder why Britain is still seen as a class-ridden society :rolleyes:

The article also goes on to say:
Only in Britain does malicious snobbery rear such an ugly head. The Crown Prince of Norway is married to a former drug addict with an illegitimate child, the Crown Prince of Denmark to an Australian businesswoman, and the Crown Prince of the Netherlands to a former Wall Street investment banker.
...
The Prince of Wales was allegedly advised as a young man to marry a virgin towards the upper end of the English aristocracy. He did his best, with disastrous results.
Exactly.

I can't see William ever doing better than Kate Middleton as a partner - dumping her because he wants to get laid more is probably the dumbest decision he's ever made. If you find The One, it doesn't matter how old or young you are, you should hold on to them for life...

[spectator]

Bridgit Jones is not posh. They are aspirational middle class - exactly like the middletons, its part of the joke. (It's confusing because renee zellweger's can only do "Austen" accents).


And let's not forget princess Caroline of Monaco who's love life is never dull, last I heard she'd run off with a circus performer.

[Pacion]

And let's not forget princess Caroline of Monaco who's love life is never dull, last I heard she'd run off with a circus performer.

Ummm... I think you may find that it is Stephanie, the younger sister, who has the colourful love life! I think they have split up. The magazine "Hello", is usually accurate on these things. :lol:

[Hello magazine is an ultra glossy magazine that publishes lots of colourful photos and interviews with the celebrities/royalty. They never have a bad word or 'bad' gossip to spread :lol:.]

[spectator]

Ummm... I think you may find that it is Stephanie, who has the colourful love life! :D

I am corrected! But they are great value aren't they? maybe be should ask for a swap?

[Pacion]

I am corrected! But they are great value aren't they? maybe be should ask for a swap?

:lol:! Great value? :nope: Too colourful/too much excitement for my liking! Even Prince Albert has an illegitimate child.

Re Kate Middleton. Was she THE ONE? Don't know. They were both quite young when they met, that is not to say that that is a bad thing - the romantic in me says "ah, young love". I take my hat off to her, if I were wearing one, that a) she didn't get pregnant during their time together and b) she really does seem like a decent/honourable girl ie. not running off to do a 'kiss and tell'.

Personally, I was getting a bit peeved with all their partying and then subsequent police escorts required to get them out of the clubs (due to the photographers/paparazzi waiting to take their photos) and home, paid for out of MY taxes! :headwall: If they are going out privately, let them/Prince Charles fund it, for crying out loud! (Because, when I (or anyone else) in London have an emergency, there won't be enough police officers for us and we pay the police officers bills!) [rant over! :lol:]

[Pacion]

Bridgit Jones is not posh. They are aspirational middle class - exactly like the middletons, its part of the joke.

:?

Dave B - re the extract from the Times you quoted, from the bits I read and subsequently understood, Mrs Middleton used 'Pardon' instead of 'What' with 'What' being the [inverted commas]correct[inverted commas] word to use.

Whether it should be "I beg your pardon" instead of "pardon" is just as horrible to my ear, as saying "What"! I am not "begging" anyone's pardon! :lol: So, all they will get from me is "pardon" or "excuse me, didn't catch that etc etc". Hmm, maybe I should see if there are any vacancies at the Tower of London and whether I am allowed to walk with my own soap and towels! :lol:

[Dave Bailey]

Dave B - re the extract from the Times you quoted, from the bits I read and subsequently understood, Mrs Middleton used 'Pardon' instead of 'What' with 'What' being the [inverted commas]correct[inverted commas] word to use.
Yes, that's the way I understood it too - it's all news to me, I'm a prole and proud of it. :D

Whether it should be "I beg your pardon" instead of "pardon" is just as horrible to my ear, as saying "What"!
To me, as a professional writer (technical), "What" is inappropriate, as it's too commanding and ambiguous - too short, basically. "Pardon" is unambiguous, but it feels old-fashioned.

In theory, I guess I'd say "What was that?" or possibly "Sorry?", in practice I usually go "Hmmm?" :)

The amazing thing is not the use of vocabulary, it's the clear proof that, despite all our hopes, there's still an upper-class, and they're still twits.

For me, one serious bonus to getting rid of the monarchy would be removing the raison d'etre for these scum courtiers and assorted chinless wonder hangers-on.

[Pacion]

For me, one serious bonus to getting rid of the monarchy would be removing the raison d'etre for these scum courtiers and assorted chinless wonder hangers-on.

IMO, not sure a 'presidency' would be much different! :x :lol:

In theory, could the monarchy be abolished so easily? There are so many vested parties and interests in keeping the British monarchy, I am not sure it could/would happen in my lifetime. Yes, the Queen is the Head of State, but as the UK is not like Canada or Australia where they can become a Republic, not sure how the UK would go about it...

[bordertangoman]

Getting back on topic...

Was watching bits of 'Bridget Jones' on television last night. It was the latest one, and there is a scene where Bridget says "what" in response to something her mother said and Bridget's mother said, "not what, say pardon". :? As it is a British film, they wouldn't have had that line, unless it was 'correct', or would they?

[Yes, everything I know, I learnt from the television! :lol:]


if 'pardon' is better why then don't we say 'Pardon the f***'? :roll:

[Dave Bailey]

IMO, not sure a 'presidency' would be much different!
Oh, I'm sure it'd be just as crony-infested - look at the Blair kitchen cabinet for examples - but at least they wouldn't act as if they had some sort of right to be where they are.

In theory, could the monarchy be abolished so easily? There are so many vested parties and interests in keeping the British monarchy, I am not sure it could/would happen in my lifetime. Yes, the Queen is the Head of State, but as the UK is not like Canada or Australia where they can become a Republic, not sure how the UK would go about it...
I imagine the process would be simple enough:
- Hold (and win) a Referendum
- Pass an appropriate Act of Parliament

Of course "simple" doesn't equate to "easy" :)

More realistically, constitutional change in this country is incremental - as we're seeing with the very slow reform of the House Of Lords.

In fact, once the House Of Lords becomes fully-elected (in a few years' time I imagine), removing the entire concept of heriditary power and replacing it with a strong democratic element, then the position of the monarch becomes more vulnerable.

Combine that with the (presumed) unpopularity of Liz's successors, and you can see a case for whittling away at her status - remove the royal prerogative, reduce / remove the Queen's Speech, and so on.

Eventually, you end up with a vastly overpaid civil servant, a bit like the Lord Mayor of London - that is, a person with some ceremonial uses, but the real Mayor is the true representative now.

It could happen...

[Pacion]

Oh, I'm sure it'd be just as crony-infested - look at the Blair kitchen cabinet for examples - but at least they wouldn't act as if they had some sort of right to be where they are.


As if they don't behave that way already! :lol:

In fact, once the House Of Lords becomes fully-elected (in a few years' time I imagine), removing the entire concept of heriditary power and replacing it with a strong democratic element, then the position of the monarch becomes more vulnerable.

Hmmm. I seem to recall hearing about this 'fully elected' House of Lords during the late 80s!!! How many more years is 'a few'. :(

remove the royal prerogative, reduce / remove the Queen's Speech, and so on.

Oooh! Can we have the Queen's/King's Dance instead?! :banana: