How do I take my WCS to that elusive "next level"?

[SlowDancer]

Got an e-mail a couple of days ago from my former country-WCS pro saying, hey, let's enter the swing contest together at the next country comp...it was exciting and flattering, and I'm going to do it, but I feel that my WCS is stuck at that competent, intermediate but boring stage...I see people doing all these miraculous syncopations, and I always think "I could do that"...but of course, I don't.

I think most of the problem is, I don't really get to do much WCS. I live in a fairly small dance community and my only exposure to high-level west coasters is at the occasional out-of-town comp. Or videos. Any advice on kicking it up a notch or two, in a couple of months?

[DancinAnne]

Got an e-mail a couple of days ago from my former country-WCS pro saying, hey, let's enter the swing contest together at the next country comp...it was exciting and flattering, and I'm going to do it, but I feel that my WCS is stuck at that competent, intermediate but boring stage...I see people doing all these miraculous syncopations, and I always think "I could do that"...but of course, I don't.

I think most of the problem is, I don't really get to do much WCS. I live in a fairly small dance community and my only exposure to high-level west coasters is at the occasional out-of-town comp. Or videos. Any advice on kicking it up a notch or two, in a couple of months?

Watch videos.

Let go and learn to play.

Experiment. See what works and what doesn't. When you have a leader who leads basic stuff, it is a great time to try things out. Shimmy. Body roll. Wiggle your butt. Vary your triples. Be sexy. Smooth your hair. Listen to the music. Dance with the music. Play.

Don't be afraid to screw up.

[Vince A]

Let go and learn to play.
When you can do this . . . you will be there!

. . . try things out. Shimmy. Body roll. Wiggle your butt. Vary your triples. Be sexy. Smooth your hair. Listen to the music. Dance with the music. Play.Don't be afraid to screw up.
Ditto . . .

Once you forget about "what you have to do," and can play . . . you'll feel that growth . . . just remember, that once you do start playing, it will open up a new WCS world for you, but you have to be there for the leader . . . insure that once you've stopped playing, you settle in, anchor - signaling the lead to "press on." And be fair . . . don't play so much that you're constantly taking away his/her lead! Let the music dictate what you do . . . respond to the music . . . get in the groove of the music . . . feel it . . . learn the music . . . know how to hear the count 1, etc . . . you'll be amazed how different it can be!

[SuzieQ]

Great advice from both DancinAnne and VinceA!

[bastet]

AHHH- WCS...my other love! (Along with Argentine Tango)

I agree that letting go and learning to play really will make a difference for you. I would sometimes try out all sorts of things at home with my favorite partner (the back of a chair) to work out something that I wanted to try when I knew I had a triple to play with, or side passes. This changes even the most basic patterns in to WOW!

[Vince A]

Great suggestion . . .

[Dancelf]

Any advice on kicking it up a notch or two, in a couple of months?

Fishbowl.

get a bunch of slips of paper. on each, write down a fundamental synchopation (example - "kick ball change"). fold up the slips, and put them all in the fish bowl.

Now, every time you go dancing westie: reach into the fishbowl, and find out what synchopation you are going to be doing that night. For example, if you draw "kick ball change", then that night, on every single pattern, replace the "walk walk" with a kick ball change. Yes, you are supposed to be sick of it before the first dance ends. keep at it anyway.

However - don't try to do the same kick ball change every time.

experiment with kicking in different directions, or using different kinds of kicks, or whatever. You are looking for some variation that works for you. Some of them will only work with some patterns, others will be more universal.

Doesn't have to be footwork, of course; you can beat the other dimensions of the dance into submission using the same approach.

[SlowDancer]

What great advice from everyone...there does seem to be a common thread, and that is to learn to be spontaneous and play with the music. I like Dancin'Anne's advice: don't be afraid to screw up.

One thing I need to remember is that all those spontaneous-looking things I see ladies do have probably been practiced dozens if not hundreds of times. Somehow it seems a little contradictory, to practice being spontaneous, but I think that's what you guys are trying to tell me to do.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and plan to start working on this little project when I go out social dancing this weekend.

[SuzieQ]

Let us know how it goes!

[SlowDancer]

I will! I'm going to a Latin party and the DJ usually plays quite a few WCS songs. So maybe I'll have a chance to start tonight.

[Vince A]

Well?

[SlowDancer]

Vince, it was a pretty good night of dancing, except that there weren't many WCS songs played. Very frustrating. However, I did try to "play with the music" as much as possible. There just wasn''t much music to play with. Tomorrow night is country night and it should be better. Stay tuned....

[Vince A]

I'm still tuned in . . . how did it go?

There is play time in all music . . . listen for things that are not necessarily the "music."

[kayak]

Hey, what trick do you guys use to find the major changes in the music? I do pretty good finding sets of two measures. Still, if you watch really good WCS dancers, they are able to change the whole dance at the right point in the music. I can sometimes do it with music I have heard a million times, but I have a much harder time with new songs.

[Steve Pastor]

OK. First, I'm not claiming to be a "really good WCS dancer", but a couple of things come to mind.
Most music follows pretty standard patterns. Once your brain has latched onto those patterns, it can do things for you that you aren't consciously thinking about. (How often do you step up onto a curb or a step, and screw it up?) So, listening and moving to music (hopefully in time) builds these pathways in your brain. Darn, I think they call that practice.

One thing to keep in mind is that when you watch someone dance, you have no idea how many times they have heard a song.

Breaks are the most obvious thing to hit.
Have you noticed that many songs announce their breaks with a build up of intensity, culminating in the break?
Listen, listen, listen. Does the music get softer? Does it get louder and have more energy? Is there a part with "syncopated" percussion, or a guitar solo?

Being able to keep time, take your own steps, and lead your partner, then be able to listen to and react to the music ain't that easy.
Having a good partner, who also likes to experiment, knows her side of the dance (so you aren't always wondering if she will get this), doesn't care if things go "wrong" sometimes, and helps you put things back together again when they do go wrong, is hugely important.

[Dancelf]

Hey, what trick do you guys use to find the major changes in the music? I do pretty good finding sets of two measures. Still, if you watch really good WCS dancers, they are able to change the whole dance at the right point in the music. I can sometimes do it with music I have heard a million times, but I have a much harder time with new songs.

Nuts, I thought I had answered this yesterday - must have forgotten to submit it.

The short answer that was immediately useful to me, many moons ago: "music has rules".

A slightly more practical short answer (though less complete): betting on a major change every 32 beats of a contemporary song has high ROI, as does betting on a major change every 48 beats in blues music.

A hint at a longer answer: with practice, you can learn to hear the tells that the music gives just before a change, which allows you to (a) stop counting and (b) match the music.

The longer answer really does require its own thread (although I think you can find a bunch of pieces of that answer posted on this board already).

[Plainswalker]

One trick that I used to practice is to count the music, but dance the steps. It forces you to "hear" the music and its intrinsic 8-count structure while dancing six- and eight-count basics. I find it helped me understand where I was in the music and figure out idiosyncrasies in the song (some songs would add a measure here and there, for example).

[kayak]

Cool, I will give those ideas a shot. I know accenting the right places in the music will be a major improvement. It took a little while, but not too long, to find beats 1 and 5. So with a little patience, I ought to be able to find 32 and 48 :D

[SlowDancer]

I'm still tuned in . . . how did it go?

There is play time in all music . . . listen for things that are not necessarily the "music."

It went moderately well...still not enought WCS songs to suit my taste, and it was an "off" night attendance-wise, meaning there weren't many leaders to dance with.

Another thing I've discovered during this brief experiment thus-far: I really can't tell how I look doing my new stuff unless there is a mirror, which means only at studio parties...not knowing how I look is definitely a hindrance to my progress. We all know that just because something feels good doesn't necessarily mean it looks good.

I'm thinking about getting someone to video me dancing WCS in the very near future so I can watch objectively and see what's working and what isn't. And I plan to take a WCS lesson with a visiting pro whom I admire and trust the next time he's in town and have him objectively evaluative what my WCS needs and how to get it there.

Practicing with the refrigerator door is great as far as it goes, but some real live flesh and blood WCS leaders would really help--but they are few and far between here.

But I very much appreciate all the great suggestions and I'm not giving up the experiment until I can see some real progress.

[kayak]

Hope you didn't mind my thread drift. It seemed like kind of the same subject.

I suspect you will really like using a video. It was watching a video that I realized I blissfully passed right over some big changes in the music. Nothing particularily wrong, just that I could really make a jump if I matched up with the music better. Besides, it is actually kind of fun to see that there are way more things going right than wrong.

[Vince A]

SlowDancer . . . gonna be a "swinger" this weekend?

[Steve Pastor]

Hmmm,
Kayak, don't beat yourself up about missing stuff in the music.
I had a couple of dances last night, with two different women, and I ended up wondering why things din't quite gel. Was it me?
I also danced with another gal, who I think is the most musical of the three. Guess what? That dance went pretty darn good.
What I conclude is that it can't be just you dancing musically. Your partner has to feel it, too. The leader is not solely responsible for how the dance goes.
You will dance much better as a couple (it is a couple dance after all), if she hears the music, and understands what you are trying to accomplish.
At least that's my opinion.

[SlowDancer]

SlowDancer . . . gonna be a "swinger" this weekend?

Don't I wish...no dancing at all for me this past weekend. My DH and I are presently living in two different states and are selling our out-of-state house (where he currently lives--it's a long, long story). We spent the entire weekend packing for the move. Next weekend should be better!:raisebro:

[Vince A]

Don't I wish...no dancing at all for me this past weekend. My DH and I are presently living in two different states and are selling our out-of-state house (where he currently lives--it's a long, long story). We spent the entire weekend packing for the move. Next weekend should be better!:raisebro:
Wow . . . it's weird that you said that. Two couples - dear friends of ours - are doing the same thing . . . he's in one stae, and she in another. They're both talking about one or the other quitting their present job . . . etc . . . etc . . . etc!

[SlowDancer]

Yes, we know some other folks in this situation as well...we certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone. In our case, it's the result of my husband transferring to another state for a new job, and I went with him, but we were both very unhappy with the new location, although for different reasons. I ended up moving back to our home state when I learned I could come back to my old job. He is trying to get transferred back here, too.

[Vince A]

Yes, we know some other folks in this situation as well...we certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone. In our case, it's the result of my husband transferring to another state for a new job, and I went with him, but we were both very unhappy with the new location, although for different reasons. I ended up moving back to our home state when I learned I could come back to my old job. He is trying to get transferred back here, too.
Same as our closest friends . . . moved to NM to buy a ranch for their horses. She hated it, moved back to San Jose, and has been here ever since - like more than a year! SHe now want sot move out our way to get out of the Bay Area, and she is trying to talk her husband into selling the ranch, and trying it here????????????????????????????????????????????

PS . . . her husband doesn't dance at all, and there are many, many Pros out this way! Wonder why she wants to move back???

[Steve Pastor]

Pick up this month's Psychology Today to read in full the bad news about improvising.
I'll use dance instead of jazz as the example in this changed excerpt from the 1/2 page article.

Dance encodes the pardox of intuition: the ability to improvise is born from a lifetime of discipline, including copying solos from favorite dancers to internalize the natural flow of movement to music.

Darn!

[SlowDancer]

Same as our closest friends . . . moved to NM to buy a ranch for their horses. She hated it, moved back to San Jose, and has been here ever since - like more than a year! SHe now want sot move out our way to get out of the Bay Area, and she is trying to talk her husband into selling the ranch, and trying it here????????????????????????????????????????????

PS . . . her husband doesn't dance at all, and there are many, many Pros out this way! Wonder why she wants to move back???

Funny, my husband doesn't dance a lick either, and that's the one thing I really liked about the move...lots more CW dancing in Houston, TX than where I am now...but it's still good to be back "home."

Besides, after spending a long weekend in Houston, I am reminded that it is just too darn big, too spread out, and too much traffic. Guess I'm just a small-town girl at heart. :)

[SlowDancer]

Pick up this month's Psychology Today to read in full the bad news about improvising.
I'll use dance instead of jazz as the example in this changed excerpt from the 1/2 page article.

Dance encodes the pardox of intuition: the ability to improvise is born from a lifetime of discipline, including copying solos from favorite dancers to internalize the natural flow of movement to music.

Darn!

Wow, cool...I've always compared good WCS dancers to jazz musicians jamming...I'll have to run by the bookstore and get a copy of the magazine tomorrow.

[SlowDancer]

I am pleased to report that my WCS project is picking up steam. I went dancing last night and was able to get several dances with an excellent WCS leader, whose wife is also very good (she stayed home with a cold last night, so I got to reap the benefits). I told him I wanted to learn to be more expressive and dance to the music, like his wife. He was very encouraging and helped me find places in the music to "play" and offered a couple of suggestions of specific things to do. All in all, a very satisfying evening!

[kayak]

Sounds like you had fun. Did you feel like you made a big enough jump to be ready to dance with your pro? Were you adding playfulness inside some specific patterns or taking some time to freelance?

[SlowDancer]

Sounds like you had fun. Did you feel like you made a big enough jump to be ready to dance with your pro? Were you adding playfulness inside some specific patterns or taking some time to freelance?

Yes, I've finally decided that I've just got to get out there and do it, with the belief that my dancing is OK as is, and the experience of competition will increase my confidence and make my dancing even better. Baptism by fire, ya know?

However, there has been a snag in my plans and it looks like I won't be able to make it to the Oklahoma City comp after all. But that won't deter me from my mission to improve my WCS. :smile:

[SlowDancer]

Had a great WCS night last night...danced with one of my favorite leads and he hugged me and told me how much he loved all my "great little embellishments!" Yay! I'm getting there.

[DancinAnne]

Had a great WCS night last night...danced with one of my favorite leads and he hugged me and told me how much he loved all my "great little embellishments!" Yay! I'm getting there.

Feels good, doesn't it. Congrats on your progress!!

[Silveralsa]

I agree that letting go and playing is the way to grow! I love to play, and actually struggle with my technique cause at first I just wanted to have fun after crossing over from Lindy. You just change it up, tried holding a beat, or speeding it up and including a couple more beats, figure out ways how your body can show what you're feeling with the music and partner...

If it's a little out of your comfort zone, you can practice a little of it in terms of your body movement in front of a mirror. In the comfort (and privacy :) ) of you own home, use a full-length mirror, put on some of your favorite WCS music, and just start dancing. See what comes out and what you do or don't like. Then, I also agree with going on youtube and searching for some of your favorite WCS dancers. Then see how they play, and try practicing the moves when you get to go out to dance. That way you have some ideas and the improv will start to become more natural :)

[Joy In Motion]

One thing I need to remember is that all those spontaneous-looking things I see ladies do have probably been practiced dozens if not hundreds of times. Somehow it seems a little contradictory, to practice being spontaneous, but I think that's what you guys are trying to tell me to do.

This is definitely true. It seems contradictory, but from discipline comes freedom. This is a big theme I found in my research on flow.

If you are the reflective type and enjoy reading, you may find inspiration from two books that I really enjoyed: Free Play (by Stephen Nachmanovitch) and The Music Lesson: A Spiritual Search for Growth Through Music (Victor Wooten). Both have very eye-opening reflections and metaphors on artistry, musicality, and improvisation. It won't give you practical help when it comes to your dancing, but it may provide some inspiration and open up the intangible aspects of the dance for you even more. They also talk about practicing to be spontaneous.

[Silveralsa]

Just wanted to add that video taping yourself (if you have a willing friend), can REALLY help you grow. Even if I personally cringe everytime I see myself on camera...