Defining the word "break"

[looyenyeo]

We seem to be using that term a lot i.e. "break" with respect to dancing e.g. breaking on 2.

How can we be certain we mean the same thing, even though we're using the same word?

I'm interested in hearing what it means to you; what to you understand by the word "break".

Let me set the ball rolling. How about...

Break - a change in movement or direction of movement.

Yours curiously,
Loo

[borikensalsero]

Break, crapola, I need to rest, I need a break. :D

Change of body direction, as in, my body is going forward before hitting the two, but when the second beat hits the direction of the body changes to the opposite direction.

Or going forward to hit the 1 but when the one comes around the body is taken on the opposite direction.

[Vince A]

OK, since I'm just a rookie at Salsa, let me tell you what I think from what I've read here in the DF.

Define the word "break," as in in breaking on 2:
That means breaking (or stepping) forward on the second beat.
Right?

Well, to me that means "Dancing on 2" - isn't that really what it means? It's how I hear the music . . . the jest or melody of the song maybe on the 1, but that darn conga drum accents the 2. If you are listening to the hit of that conga drum, you are hearing the accent of the 8 beats and offbeat to the melody of the music, which gives that special look . . . to salsa.

So, in essence, I'm "dancing" on 2 and 6. Not breaking? Yes? No? Kinda sorta maybe?

And I don't want to get this into which is better - the break on 1 or 2 . . . cause I read that even the 3 is used, and you can dance on 1 to all salsa music, but you can't dance a 2 to all salsa music (the majority,yes). But what does this say about those that dance to the clave 5 beat patterns?

However, I do have one question about stepping forward, breaking, or what ever you call it . . . what if I had as part of my pattern: 5, 6, 7 Open break, shine . . . what does break mean here . . . the same? A step forward?

Thanks . . .

[Sagitta]

Back break in salsa -- you guide your follower to take a back step as you do so as well.

"open break" followed by "shine"? My guess it's a move that separates you from your partner so that both of you can start doing shines!! I'm not sure if this is in reference to breaking on 1/2/3...dancing and how many beats the "open break" move takes, so cannot be more explicit!!

[borikensalsero]

Alrighty… Let me see if I can figure out how to answers these babies without confusing myself.

That means breaking (or stepping) forward on the second beat.
That is a good question. For the person to be breaking there has to be some kind of opposite directional change. If the person is stepping forward on the 2, breaking the momentum to go in the opposite direction then yes, he is breaking on2. We can for the sake of easiness say that steeping forward on the second beat is breaking on2. That is taking the above mentioned into account. Stepping on the 2 going forward doesn’t mean that the person is necessarily breaking on2, just stepping on it.

Yes Dancing on2 means breaking on the 2, or as you have stated the Off-beat.

So, in essence, I'm "dancing" on 2 and 6. Not breaking? Yes? No? Kinda sorta maybe?
Kinda-Sorta-Yes and No… Since you are dancing on2, there is a break of direction caused by the momentum stoppage when stepping on the 2 and 6. That precise momentum stopage where the body changes directions is what is known as breaking on 2. Where as the entire stepping pattern to the rhythm of the congas (2, 4, 6, 8 ) the (tu cu) for the 4 and 8, the (ta/slap) for 2 and 6 being the most audible ) is what is known as dancing on2; the off-beat.

A lot of people say that you can’t dance to all salsa on2, it is really a matter of opinion, but IMHO you really can. It is a feel kind of thing. People that say it feels weird at times to dance on2 to a song. But when you are feeling the overall rhythm of the music, dancing on2 really means dancing to the foundation of salsa; the clave and on2. On the forward clave we step on the 6, 7 and the backwards clave we step on the 2,3. It truly is how you feel the music that makes the difference, to me even when people say that I should dance a song on1, I can’t. My body naturally falls on the 2 because I feel some kind of inexplicable rhythm, which doesn’t let me think of what feels better or seems better, but rather follow whatever flow I feel.

The clave accentuates the on2. As is my understanding what holds together the band is the constant feel of the congas, however, the rhythm is laid down by the clave, which rides the congas kind of like waves coming and going at the beach. Hence, the reason why a person can’t really tell when the congas are hitting the 2 or the 6 with the (slap) if no other instruments have joined in. We know that they are doing the off-beat pattern but not really what precise beat. Then the clave comes in and gives it direction where we can then take it from there. No-one really steps to all the beats of the clave, only on some, and for arguments sake, on2 they are mostly the 2, 3 and 6, 7. No matter what type of salsa it is, it must follow a son clave structure, if it doesn’t it isn’t salsa. All on2 dancers dance to the clave pattern, when you say I dance to the clave it automatically means that you dance on the 2, break on2, dance the off-beat, hence it is another way to say you dance on2.

However, I do have one question about stepping forward, breaking, or what ever you call it . . . what if I had as part of my pattern: 5, 6, 7 Open break, shine . . . what does break mean here . . . the same? A step forward?

Remember that even stepping backward and breaking is called a break. *The break is there as long as there is a body directional change.* Ok, if you are dancing on2 and stepping 1,2,3 5,6,7 then your break is still on the off-beat. The major directional change occurs on the off-beat even when doing partner work and readying for a open break, shine, etc.

When you pull away from your partner to do solo shines, then you can break in any beat you like. You can follow a shine pattern that follows the on1 or you can follow a shine pattern that follows on2. However, when you come together with your partner you must come in on2, which means on the 2 or 6, hence again breaking on2, or dancing to the clave. Anytime you follow the congas, or the clave you are automatically dancing on2 as well making use of the term breaking on2.

I hope that helped Vince.

[Vince A]

It is a feel kind of thing. People that say it feels weird at times to dance on2 to a song. But when you are feeling the overall rhythm of the music, dancing on2 really means dancing to the foundation of salsa; the clave and on2. On the forward clave we step on the 6, 7 and the backwards clave we step on the 2,3. It truly is how you feel the music that makes the difference, to me even when people say that I should dance a song on1, I can’t. My body naturally falls on the 2 because I feel some kind of inexplicable rhythm, which doesn’t let me think of what feels better or seems better, but rather follow whatever flow I feel.
Exactly. I really do "feel" the 2, and like you, my body naturally falls on the 2 . . . maybe for the same reason . . . the rhythm makes me do it!

But I've heard that most "Latins," who are brought up on this music can really hear and feel the music . . . hear the 1 and step on the 3. Yes?

Remember that even stepping backward and breaking is called a break. *The break is there as long as there is a body directional change.*
And this is called . . . as in other dances, a "break step?"

I hope that helped Vince.
You have no idea how much it has helped. I have had a lot of questions on stuff that you covered.

I've been hooked on this dance ever since I saw Jonathan (SDsalsaguy) this past November dance it with my wife. He is very, very good at Salsa.

Thanks . . .

[borikensalsero]

Exactly. I really do "feel" the 2, and like you, my body naturally falls on the 2 . . . maybe for the same reason . . . the rhythm makes me do it!
But I've heard that most "Latins," who are brought up on this music can really hear and feel the music . . . hear the 1 and step on the 3. Yes?

Ok, here are a few things. IMHO, it really depends on how in tune a person is rhythmically. But most people, not only latins first hear the one. For example, most people will hear the one because it is the most audible sound in the music (normally). So it is easier for them to follow that beat. However, a person used to music can hear the two but will normally feel like stepping on the 1. Only because that is the norm to not only dancing but just about everything; we start everything on the 1. The same can be for just about everyone and thing.

However, when a person, for whatever reason, hears the 2, but doesn’t pay attention to the music and goes beyond mentally following something, they tend to fall on the 2. Most people I know who aren’t trained step in just about every beat without regard to following. There is a saying in NY City that Colombians step all over the place and no-one really knows what they salsa to, Ricans step on both one and two, even if they don’t know where they are stepping. Cubans step on 1, because the dance was always danced on1 there. There are socio-musical behaviors as well as personal behaviors that determine whether a person will step on the 1 or the 2. However, for some people when we allow ourselves to follow whatever feel the body is given we naturally fall on the 2 beat. Since, salsa follows an off-beat convention, because of its underlying structure, the clave, to those who are unknowingly aware of that beat will inevitably follow it. Those who begin to think of what to do, will only follow what the the body physically feels which is the strong, coming together of all instruments first beat. Not very many people step on 3, those who manage to, do it sporadically. And those who really do all the time, do so because that is what they feel and are used to, but not very many do. Go to a latin club one day and watch people dance, and count. You will mostly see 1 and 2 and very, very few 3.

So, yes it is definitely easier to hear the one(some say, I always heard the conga and the off beat, I didn’t even hear the one until I was told about the strongest beat of the music), and by the time people have made their minds to dance, the 2,3 or 4 could be around when they begin stepping, which then becomes the norm to dance in a particular geographical location.

And this is called . . . as in other dances, a "break step?"
I've been hooked on this dance ever since I saw Jonathan (SDsalsaguy) this past November dance it with my wife. He is very, very good at Salsa.
Thanks . . .

Yes, and no. It can be called a break step, but usually a break step in salsa is when the person back steps interchanging legs. A lot of people will say break step to mean what you have stated, but others use it to mean back stepping in place while interchanging turns with each leg. I usually go by ear to whatever the convention is at a given studio.

Isn’t it a dance of beauty when done properly? It is a thing of love/lust/fun and everything with it. Soon, you’ll be dancing like SD.

[Vince A]

Thanks SO much . . . this is extremely helpful information for me as a beginner . . . as I usually do in depth research on just about every new adventure I begin. I always "hear" and "feel" the ct1, but I dance on 2.

Hopefully when many of us (DF members) meet in Reno (March), Jonathan and I will exchange some dance lessons . . . WCS and Salsa . . .

[borikensalsero]

Thanks SO much . . . this is extremely helpful information for me as a beginner . . . as I usually do in depth research on just about every new adventure I begin. I always "hear" and "feel" the ct1, but I dance on 2.

Hopefully when many of us (DF members) meet in Reno (March), Jonathan and I will exchange some dance lessons . . . WCS and Salsa . . .

I do the same, I over indulge in information to satisfy a craving then end up having more question than I started with. :shock:

I'm so happy for you guys, you are going to have a blast in Reno. Man! I wish I could go, but my pay-raise can only afford to get me lunch at Burger King. :cry:

I'd love to see you guys exchanging lessons. I have this love for watching people learning a dance. :D

[Vince A]

I do the same, I over indulge in information to satisfy a craving then end up having more question than I started with. :shock:
I wonder why we do that? Maybe to get as much as we can to make the learning-curve that much shorter or easier??? We don't want to be embarrassed?

I'm so happy for you guys, you are going to have a blast in Reno. Man! I wish I could go, but my pay-raise can only afford to get me lunch at Burger King. :cry:
Well, it's only a three-hour drive for us, and we are splitting the room with another DF member, so the costs are down for us. I intend on staying nearly the entire wekkend and dance my a** off. I wish everyone from the DF could go!!!

I'd love to see you guys exchanging lessons. I have this love for watching people learning a dance. :D
I like to watch as well. I learn faster by watching, then commiting it to memory, then go somewhere and write it down. I usually can remember the moves or lesson for the next week or so . . . :?

I'm looking forward to all the workshops, and the private lessons may come by being on the dance flooor and copying the moves as it is done. Who knows? In WCS I can see a new move and do it almost immediately - maybe in one or two attempts - but in Salsa . . . it could take all day :wink:

[SurfSalsa]

Back to the break topic: of course we can break down (oops) the word break to add the following:

You have "open break", where leader and follower move in opposite directions to create (some) space between them (which in on1 salsa is on the 1 break beat, and if I remember correctly from ballroom mambo on2 days, is also on the 2 break beat).

Then you also have a break in the music - pause, change of tempo, something like that (I'm not a music student!) which shouts for a change in dance!

So in some instances it may be necessary to clarify which break we're talking about.

[discovery]

Break - a change in movement or direction of movement.


In a partner dance context, I think this is the most common definition. I feel sometimes it is also used to refer to a change of dance position as in an "open break" although I am not 100% sure of this definition. Also I think there is another usage that is used sometimes and that is:

break - a series of two steps (a step-replace) in one of the five ballet foot positions.

As in:
1st position break - feet together (two steps in place)
2nd position break - side break
3rd position break - heel to instep
4th position break - forward or back break (usual scenario in salsa)
5th position break - heel to toe (as in a cumbia basic)

(3rd and 5th positions can be extended positions--the feet do not have to be touching).

The 1st position break doesn't fit in with the definition of change of direction but I think it is used by extension.

[Ms_Sunlight]

Thanks for that, discovery. This whole thread is sorta-kinda-almost making sense to me!

When talking about timing, it makes more sense for me to say that you break on 1, on 2 or whatever rather than that you dance on 1, on 2 etc. etc. Seems to me, I dance on everything -- in a complicated rhythm there's lots going on to be moved by and I have body parts to use other than my feet -- shoulders, head, chest, hips...

[Alias]

Some remarks (in cross-body-lead slotted salsa):

Let's take the basic step in place:
Stepping forward (resp. backward) is not enough to say you're breaking forward (resp. backward), because on the next step you could for example step forward (resp. backward) too (for example think of the (ET2) case).
For the purpose let's presume you have two feet (noted here (a) and (b)), now you've stepped forward (resp. backward) with foot (a) (step on instant N) and you find yourself with your feet moved aside, if on the next step you put back your weight toward foot (b) your body will move backward (resp. forward) hence the "change of direction" of the body movement (forward then backward) (resp. backward then forward) between the first step and the next one, that's it, the "break on N".

But wait there's more, let's take the (follower) "cross-body-lead" basic step:
Check out the steps where you step forward (resp. backward) and "change direction" of the body movement in the next step (this change of direction can be a change of orientation), you will find one backward break and one forward break.

About the "open break":
In normal basic step in place the leader breaks forward (resp. backward) when the follower breaks backward (resp. forward) (remaining more or less at the same distant), an open break is for example if the leader breaks backward (instead of forward) when the follower breaks backward (this is the mirror concept opposed to the ... concept).

[tj]

Break:

What I take after dancing 3 really fast and long songs!

:roll: :wink:

[alvaro]

A lot of people say that you can’t dance to all salsa on2, it is really a matter of opinion, but IMHO you really can. It is a feel kind of thing.

There are some salsa songs that i feel weird dancing on2. I don't know names, but if i identify some, can i ask you about them?

What about timba? do you dance it on2 too?

[Snuggles]

i dont know any songs...but when i dance salsa...i do a little flick on 2.

[Vin]

Alot of the faster stuff like sonorra carouseles, I have hard time dancing on2 to this. I always feel like I am forcing a timing onto it.

[Beto]

Alot of the faster stuff like sonorra carouseles, I have hard time dancing on2 to this. I always feel like I am forcing a timing onto it.
Agreed. Something like El Yo Yo by Wayne Gorbea can be danced easily on 2 but something significantly faster like you just mentioned, or some Cuban music, just seems so much harder.

What about timba? do you dance it on2 too?
I haven't heard much timba at all but I recall it being so fast that I sometimes had trouble finding the count within the music. I'm sure casineros or dancers who are used to it can but I would need to hear a lot more of it before I would be able to.