What is timba?

[pygmalion]

Isn't it funny how each dance discipline has some terminology in commen, but some that's completely unique? I'm running into that a lot as I try to learn about salsa and associated Latin music and dances.

So educate me. What is timba?

[HothouseSalsero]

I can't link to the most obvious site to answer that question, since it's a commercial site (however, a web search should bring it up for you).

Let me try. Timba is a relatively recent (90'sish) form of Cuban music that builds on son, incorporates elements from funk, hip-hop and maybe reggae, as well as making use of Afro-Cuban folkloric rhythms that apparently haven't been used much, if at all, in popular music. Some might describe it as a form of salsa, but that gets tricky. It is considered to be harmonically complex.

The dancing tends to take more of a freestyle form.

Many of the songs will begin by imitating (possibly parodying) salsa romantica, but then go into something funkier.

Personally, I don't like most of the timba I've heard, but some people consider it to be just about the most exciting form of music to have developed in the last decade or so.

[HothouseSalsero]

Incidentally, the borrowings from funk are probably the most obvious and most important of the elements timba borrows from other musical traditions, though jazz may be just as important. I didn't mention jazz, actually, but I don't think of jazz as being anything very new in Cuban music. (In fact, at times I find that the jazz that I hear reflected in timba is smooth jazz, which is a bit of a turn-off, but if I knew about music theory, I'd probably recognize a deeper level of connection to jazz, since, as I say, timba is pretty harmonically complex, whatever that really means.)

[HothouseSalsero]

If you do a search of rec.music.afro-latin, you will find threads on this subject, including praise from fanatics, and dismissals from timba's detractors.

[Salsero_AT]

but some people consider it to be just about the most exciting form of music to have developed in the last decade or so.

YES !!!! IT IS !! :D

I just love timba. It is rythmically very complex, but nonetheless the good songs really groove, and it is just great to dance to them. But one warning: dancing LA style or NY style does not fit to it. It is much more fun to dance cuban style to it.

Try searching for songs of Manolito y su Trabuco, Klimax, the more recent songs from Los Van Van, Bamboleo, Isaac Delgado or Aramis Gallindo for example.

[pygmalion]

Cool. Thanks for the info. I wonder if anybody around here does it. Hmm. I'll give the music a listen.

[Sagitta]

I don't do timba, but you know what? I would be interested in seeing people doing it, to see if it is an avenue go down. Do any of you know of video clips on the web that show some good timba dancing?

[looyenyeo]

Timba is a relatively new movement. There is a vast difference of opinion, what it is, what it isn’t, which inevitably leads to highly polarised schools of thought. I think it’s something where you have to do your own research and make up your own mind. Consequently, I can’t tell you what it is. I can only tell you what it means to me.

Principles
In terms of the music and the way it’s interpreted by dancers, timba can be recognised by the introduction of “new” elements previously unseen or rare in salsa, perhaps in a need to maintain salsa’s relevance, reflecting changes in our social circumstances.

I think good timba breaks the rules of salsa, and breaks it well. It smacks a little of mischief, disobedience, anarchy - like coating an apple with a mild laxative, then giving it to your class teacher…

Once I understood timba that way, it started getting dangerously attractive.

Music
Harmonically, salsa tends to use modes I and V, passing through mode IV or substituted with mode II. Timba explores other modes, some of my favourite Los Van Van tracks use modes III and VI. Percussively, I hear more rumba style accents, and some other patterns which I suspect are influenced by AfroCuban sacred drumming (though I’m not familiar enough with them).

Other influences incorporated include, brazillian patterns, reggae/ragga, hip-hop/urban groove, funk, you name it.

Dance
I still consider timba as salsa, so it’s primarily a partner dance, and I tend to prefer dancing to songs on 1 or on 3. What sets it apart, are the sheer variety of body movements (jazz, Brazillian) and changes in timing (dragging or cropping beats) that I can use to accent the music. If it fits, I throw it in - I like to think of it as today’s “urban salsa” with a wicked gleam in its eye.

My ultimate aim is not as much for my partner not to dance with me, but more importantly to experience my interpretation of the song. Given that I prefer movement over moves, and my kind of background in the music, I find that this style of timba suits me best.

It may not be everyone’s cup of tea.

(must be my most opinionated post so far)
Loo

[borikensalsero]

When I first heard timba, I was like darn, this seems like it’s going to be hot. There is a lot of rumba-like percussion in this thing. It was the first thoughts out of my head. This is going to be a “spin-off” like salsa did in the late 60s, and become its own wild thing. So I tried getting into it for some time, but because my admiration to funk, "rap", etc, isn't much, it killed it. I’d go wild when I heard it get into its salsa/rumba groove, but as soon as it got “futuristic”, my body disappeared. Not because I didn’t appreciate the different types of music within timba. But because my body didn’t react to it, I could be in the deepest of trance but as soon as it got reggeaish/futuristic, I’d loose emotion instantly.

It was like being in a deep sleep and waken up with a bucket of cold water. It completely took all emotion out of me. I’m into percussion rhythms for spiritual reasons, hence why percussion filled music attracts me so much, but when the percussion is take out it pulls me away.

So, I must say that I enjoy timba to a point.

[peachexploration]

Explanation for Mamborama.com:

The newest and most controversial music out of Cuba, Timba is like salsa on steroids. It incorporates influences from Brazilian music, R&B, hip-hop and salsa.

Check out this Rueda with timba (I think) in the background:
http://www.salsacasino.com/videos/index.html
SalsAtlanta Performance

Music:
Marcando la Distancia by Manolito y su Trabuco

[brujo]

How do you dance to timba?

The same way that you would dance to cuban casino. Take a look at the salsaville videos, they give a good idea of the steps involved in timba. There are sections in the songs where you would dance by yourself, and then others where you would grab your partner and dance with her. Timing is still the same, a six beat dance to a 8 beat bar of music.

There is also a big deal of call and response in timba, where the dancers would do what the song calls for. A lot of it is hands up in the air, hands on your hips, etc. Some merengue songs like Bomba would give you a good idea of this.

Timba is trully a street dance. And because of this, the movements of the dancers shake their entire bodies. The hip movement in the women and the shoulder shakes are very intense due to the influences of despelote, tembla and the typical afro-cuban movements. The footwork is very improvisational, and you can see many cases where the man does a lot of falls, tapping on the floor and wraps with the leg, where he moves the woman with his feet.

[salsachinita]

one warning: dancing LA style or NY style does not fit to it. It is much more fun to dance cuban style to it.

:roll: Tell me about it :roll: ! During my recent visit to Sydney, I found that almost ALL latin DJs jumped on the band wagon and play timba ALL NIGHT (which I love, but) with a club FULL of L.A. style dancers :shock: !

At the moment there are hardly anyone dancing Cuban style (properly, that is) in Sydney, coz L.A. style seems to be flavour of the minute :roll: . The dance style really doesn't FEEL right with the music, even if people are on beat (not to metion the ones who just ignore the beat altogether).

Shouldn't DJs respond to the crowd a bit more...? Or shouldn't dancers adapt to the music instead....?

[HothouseSalsero]

The dancers may not know how to adapt to the music. I have gone to see a local band that plays Cuban music. Even though I don't feel that my regular salsa style fits this music (which is really kind of pre-salsa), I don't know what else to do. I see other people dancing their usual salsa steps, in their usual salsa style, to this music, but it doesn't look right to me. The feel is wrong.

DJs, on the other hand, are usually professionals and have some degree of obligation to adapt to the dancers (not the other way around).

But if everybody is happy dancing L.A. style to timba, maybe there isn't really a problem, except for the observer who doesn't think the two fit together very well.

[salsachinita]

The dancers may not know how to adapt to the music.

I agree. Musicality/subtle denominations of music style under the umbrella of salsa isn't generally taught side by side at the studios where most ppl learn to dance these days. Unless you LOOK for these information from sources (such as this forrum 8) ).....

I am lucky because my latino friends will tell me if I was doing a style that didn't fit the music :wink: (or they will just lead me into the real thing)!

my regular salsa style ..........which is really kind of pre-salsa.

:? Pre-salsa......? Please tell me more......?

But if everybody is happy dancing L.A. style to timba, maybe there isn't really a problem, except for the observer who doesn't think the two fit together very well.

I am not sure 'happy' is the word......maybe 'tolerant' is more like it :? .
Anyone from Sydney lurking about? I would love to hear what you think.

[HothouseSalsero]

my regular salsa style ..........which is really kind of pre-salsa.

:? Pre-salsa......? Please tell me more......?

"Pre-salsa" was describing the music that this band plays, and it's just my lazy/uninformed way of describing son and other Cuban forms that came before salsa per se.

[salsachinita]

"Pre-salsa" was describing the music that this band plays, and it's just my lazy/uninformed way of describing son and other Cuban forms that came before salsa per se.

8) Cool 8) ! I like this style.