A Place to Vent

[SwinginBoo]

Ok, here's a place where you can vent all your dance frustrations. I'll start.

A couple of weeks ago I was at a dance that was rather crowded. People who weren't dancing were standing off to the side as usual. At one point I was one of those people. I was chatting with someone and was watching them do some really neat poppin and lockin. So I guess we were a little on the floor because he was dancing. Anyhow, this guy comes over and shouts at us to get off the floor. I was so stunned by it that it took me a minute or two to register what he said. So I didn't move right away. He comes back over with his partner and literally knocks into me to push me off the floor.

Tonight I was at a dance and the same guy was there. He asks me to dance like it never happened. I accepted because I was one of the only followers at the dance (wind chill -45 degrees keeps the people away I guess). In the middle of the dance he stops me and is like, "I'm going to show you how to do this move, blah blah blah" he proceeded to talk to me like I had no idea what I was doing, when I could have followed him in my sleep. (FYI it was a slow WCS and he was not leading anything difficult). ARG!

Ok I should have said no to the dance tonight and asserted myself. But man, I was so angry. I felt like I could have choked him. That is so unlike me. Honest. I'm not a violent person. But oh it made me so mad!!!! :evil: :headwall:

ok...I think I feel a bit better now. Now it's your turn. Let it rip!

[Giselle]

Oooo! Talk about arrogance! I'm sorry that had to happen to you. :(

My venting has less to do with others, more to do with clubs. Now, hear this- I maybe 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! This is really more of a problem for me in Austin than in Dallas (I live in both areas)... How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

[NeoDevin]

I just be thankful that 18 is the drinking age here :lol:

[SwinginBoo]

My venting has less to do with others, more to do with clubs. Now, hear this- I maybe 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! This is really more of a problem for me in Austin than in Dallas (I live in both areas)... How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

That is a problem. I'm not sure how you deal with it. I wish they could give over or under 21 people a stamp or bracelets so that it would be easily recognizable to bartenders who was not 21. But I guess the idea is that someone else could buy you drinks and stuff. It stinks. I'm sorry for you. :(

[Sagitta]

I feel for you SwinginBoo!! I have absolutely no tolerance for people without manners. If there is one thing that gets my blood flowing and overflows my tolerance cup it is incidents as you describe. I have shown people steps on the dance floor, (beginners usually, and others who ask)but if at any point they express a lack of interest/frustration I move on as after all I like to dance. :) And if you weren't causing any problems at the edge of the dance floor what that cad did is inexcusable.

As for the 21 age limit that is something else that irritates me to no end!! Can't stand it! At the place that I go salsa dancing there are options for those who are under 21!! First, come in early while lessons are going on and then you don't have to worry baout being carded! Second if you come after the dancing has started and their is a guy at a door you have to show valid underage id, get stamped....something like that...as I know of one person who got in once going through this rigamarole! lastly aren't there events which are not held in clubs that you can attend? I know that there are here in Ithaca.

[KevinL]

There is another dance teacher locally who doesn't like me. He has apparently been saying negative things about me. Since I feel that behaviour reflects more negatively on him than it does on me, it doesn't really bother me.

What bothers me is that this month a student who has been in my classes for several months paid by check and wrote the wrong name. It was my first name, and the other guys last name.

This student and I have emailed back and forth several times and my name is on the return address of all of my messages, so it really frustrates me that he doesn't even know who I am!

(I'm finding the story kind of funny now that I'm writing it, though.)

Kevin

[SwinginBoo]

(I'm finding the story kind of funny now that I'm writing it, though.)

Kevin

That's the thing about it. Once you write it down it's like you put it on a cloud and blow it away. Ok so that was corny :D , but it's like it doesn't matter anymore. You can see it at face value and let it go.

[KevinL]

SwinginBoo, regarding the cad, if he is such a newbie that he can't even tell that you know how to dance, maybe a good response would be to do a really great dance with someone who knows what they are doing right in front of him? I'm sorry that the guy was an idiot, but it's obvious from your description that he isn't very experienced.

Giselle, regarding the under-21 issue, it might very much depend on the local laws. It is possible that different counties have different liquor control laws that preclude allowing anyone under the legal drinking age inside their establishement. You might want to contact the clubs where you are interested in dancing beforehand to see what you can do about dancing there. Maybe there is a system that would allow you inside.

[SwinginBoo]

I have one more thing to add to the under 21 age problem. At least as far as swing goes (I'm not sure if other dances are like this) you need to get the younger kids interested in it to keep it alive and thriving. If young people are kept away because of age then you lose interest in the dance. We need to encourage younger people to get involved and learn. IMHO

[pygmalion]

Here, there are several clubs that sponsor underage parties (kind of lame if you're nineteen, I know :cry: ). Also, most clubs admit 18 and up, but allow drinking only at 21 and up. You get a wristband when you show ID, and the wristband is required in order to buy drinks.

It might be worth calling a club or two, to suggest that. I can't see them turning away potential patrons.

[pygmalion]

My frustration is that the good, independent dance teachers don't advertise directly. Mostly business cards and word of mouth. Most of the studios that advertise are the big, big-budget franchise studios that I plan to avoid like the plague. So how do I find a new teacher? Hmm. Gotta give that some thought, but I bet groveling to the local USABDA president will be involved. LOL.

[KevinL]

My frustration is that the good, independent dance teachers don't advertise directly. Mostly business cards and word of mouth. Most of the studios that advertise are the big, big-budget franchise studios that I plan to avoid like the plague. So how do I find a new teacher? Hmm. Gotta give that some thought, but I bet groveling to the local USABDA president will be involved. LOL.

Take advantage of the word of mouth form of advertising. Go dancing and ask everyone you see (and like) who their teacher is, and/or who they would suggest you learn from. You are certain to get lots of good feedback.

It wouldn't hurt to ask the USABDA president, but I'm fairly certain that they are supposed to be "neutral", and may not give specific references. Asking everyone else at a USABDA dance might be a good choice, though, 8^).

[pygmalion]

That's a good suggestion, KevinL. I was thinking something along those lines, too. The independent teachers here do "rent-a-teacher." You pay them $50 a hour, and they take you to a public ballroom dance and dance with you exclusively. So you get dance practice in real-life sitations. I'm going to the USABDA dance, and I'm going to watch the rent-a-teachers. The ones who look good, will get a call from me.

I also got a PM from a fellow DF member who has a great coach. He's pretty far away from me, but he's definitely on my list of possibilities. He looks great!

[KevinL]

That's a good suggestion, KevinL. I was thinking something along those lines, too. The independent teachers here do "rent-a-teacher." You pay them $50 a hour, and they take you to a public ballroom dance and dance with you exclusively. So you get dance practice in real-life sitations. I'm going to the USABDA dance, and I'm going to watch the rent-a-teachers. The ones who look good, will get a call from me.

I'm not sure I would be comfortable doing the "rent a teacher" thing. I don't have a problem with charging for my time in a teaching situation, but at a dance I might feel just a little like a male escort. I suppose it would work ok as long as I got in the mindset that my partner was paying specifically for follow skills necessary on a social dancefloor. I'm still not sure though.

Regarding watching the rent-a-teachers, will that really be a reliable test? What if their partner is really bad and makes them look less skilled than they really are?

You may have mentioned this is another post, but what about the differences between a female teacher and a male teacher? As a follower you might need more of the teaching expertise of a female teacher, and if all the female teachers are dancing with limited male partners you won't get a good feel for what they can really teach you.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. Kevin. You raise some interesting points, and I honestly hadn't considered them all.

The rent-a-teacher concept was totally new and foreign to me when I moved here. To be honest, I don't much like it. It DOES look like the male escort thing. Yuck. A lot of people here will split the cost of the evening, and two or three students will share the teacher. That makes it look a lot less like a date, and more like dance instruction. AND the teachers get some extra cash, and free advertising.

And watching them -- well -- that would be just a starting point. If nothing else, in the past year, I've learned that it's important to have GREAT, not good, not mediocre, but GREAT coaching, from a person you like and trust. And I can't settle for less than that. So I'm embarking on the "great teacher search odyssey" LOL. Seriously, I'll be watching the teacher, not the student, for qualities I want to emulate. And since it's competitive dancing I want to do, I'll be watching feet, posture, poise (in the dance sense), poise (in the composure sense), showmanship, floorcraft. And that's just my requirements for their DANCING. LOL.

Then , the next hurdle is in the first few lessons. Good dancing and good teaching don't necessarily equate. Fortunately, I've had good, bad, and ugly teachers (twelve so far) so I have some idea what good looks like.

LOL. My next teacher is going to have to be pretty darn good to meet my specs. But I'm sure there are some out there.

Oh yeah, and I have a female coach who's helping me with body rhythm and styling. I'm looking for a lead coach, who'll get me to the next level of (what I perceive to be) excellence.

[DancingMommy]

My frustration is that the good, independent dance teachers don't advertise directly. Mostly business cards and word of mouth. Most of the studios that advertise are the big, big-budget franchise studios that I plan to avoid like the plague. So how do I find a new teacher? Hmm. Gotta give that some thought, but I bet groveling to the local USABDA president will be involved. LOL.

You going tonight???? And you don't have to grovel, LOL! Just take our spot from our coach! We're officially done til after the baby comes. ;)

[pygmalion]

LOL. I'm sure a little groveling couldn't hurt. My only misgiving with your coach is that he's far away. I'll call him to find out if he does any teaching in Orlando itself. Longwood is kinda far -- a forty-five minute drive in each direction for a one hour lesson. But from what I've heard from you and others, the guy is great. Might be worth the drive.

[ballroomboilergirl]

Oooo! Talk about arrogance! I'm sorry that had to happen to you. :(

My venting has less to do with others, more to do with clubs. Now, hear this- I maybe 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! This is really more of a problem for me in Austin than in Dallas (I live in both areas)... How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

Ugh. This is quite possibly the BIGGEST issue I have come to have with ballroom dancing. Again, it sucks being the youngest member of a college ballroom dance team, especially when you can't go out salsa dancing with everyone after practice :cry:

I agree totally with SwinginBoo...we need to get the younger set involved in not only swing, but salsa and ballroom too...I believe that youth are indeed the future of dancesport, and how are we supposed to get them involved if they have nowhere to see these types of dancing? *shakes head*

I guess I don't really have any method of dealing with the "under 21" issue...it was kinda nice when I was at OSB because at least you can get into clubs in Ohio when you're 18, you just can't drink...once or twice one of the advanced team members has offered to try and get me a fake ID, but I'm not really down with breaking the law :? *sigh* Oh well, only 751 one more days until I can go out dancing with the team...

[DancingMommy]

LOL. I'm sure a little groveling couldn't hurt. My only misgiving with your coach is that he's far away. I'll call him to find out if he does any teaching in Orlando itself. Longwood is kinda far -- a forty-five minute drive in each direction for a one hour lesson. But from what I've heard from you and others, the guy is great. Might be worth the drive.

He has folks driving in from Jacksonville 2x a month and Daytona 2x a month, too! You wouldn't be setting a record for driving as far as I know, LOL!

I'm hoping we can make the dance tonight... Oh I'm hoping.... It depends on childcare... Mom promised to watch gabriella, but now she's trying to get out of it.... ARGH! My last night dancing before this one pops and I can't even get my mom to watch her..... WOE IS ME!

[DancingMommy]

I guess I don't really have any method of dealing with the "under 21" issue...

The problem is, most clubs don't make crud on the door... they make their $$$ from the bar... Since <21 can't use tha bar for it's intended purpose, most clubs opt not to open their doors to them. Also, another factor is that, unfortunately, most college kids have little disposable income. :( Clubowners know this and so don't cater to folks who can't spend the $$$ they need to keep the doors open.

One major swing venue here in Central Florida had no end of $$$ problems because of this. It was one factor that led to the demise of the "swing scene" here (amongst other things).

Also, some counties may have differing laws re: club attendance and minimum age.

One (Latin) club here has 21+ for guys and 18+ for girls. It's a nice scenario for us chicks.... But they only have "Latin Night" once a week.

[pygmalion]

Okay. Okay. I'll call him. Thanks for the recommendation. You're tops.

[SDsalsaguy]

One (Latin) club here has 21+ for guys and 18+ for girls. It's a nice scenario for us chicks.... But they only have "Latin Night" once a week.
This actually strikes me as setting the stage for some very slimy goings on... :(

[danceguy]

Well, this isn't much of a rant, but I must say its rather dissapointing that we don't have Friday night Salsa events in my area! However, my feet are still quite sore from the 2 nights I was out this week...but still Friday is all about going out to dance after a stressful workweek...and I'm sitting here at home and DF is empty! :?

I suppose I could go out Swing dancing...but I'm fully into Salsa these days and just focusing on one style to get my skills up to a more competent level.

So, we have Salsa events on Tuesday nights, and then on Sundays, they have two DIFFERENT ones put on by people who know each other. What the heck is up with that? Why not have one on Friday or Saturday, and then the other on Sunday?

Hmm, I may just have to go out of the area on Friday nights...because NO SALSA ON FRIDAY NIGHT REALLY SUCKS! :headwall:

I'll just have to make up for it this Sunday...three day weekend...I'll be out all night and morning dancing...and sleeping in come Monday like a true IRU member. :)

Hope y'all are out getting your groove on. Dance a few for me while you're out there. :wink:

Best,

SG

[pygmalion]

One (Latin) club here has 21+ for guys and 18+ for girls. It's a nice scenario for us chicks.... But they only have "Latin Night" once a week.
This actually strikes me as setting the stage for some very slimy goings on... :(Not really. No slimier than they would have been otherwise.

The armband thing actually works pretty well. That transition age between 18 to 21 is tough, because most people in the 21-year-old group have lots of friends in the under-21 group.

[pygmalion]

Tonight I was at a dance and the same guy was there. He asks me to dance like it never happened. I accepted because I was one of the only followers at the dance (wind chill -45 degrees keeps the people away I guess). In the middle of the dance he stops me and is like, "I'm going to show you how to do this move, blah blah blah" he proceeded to talk to me like I had no idea what I was doing, when I could have followed him in my sleep. (FYI it was a slow WCS and he was not leading anything difficult). ARG!

Ok I should have said no to the dance tonight and asserted myself. But man, I was so angry. I felt like I could have choked him. That is so unlike me. Honest. I'm not a violent person. But oh it made me so mad!!!! :evil: :headwall:

ok...I think I feel a bit better now. Now it's your turn. Let it rip!

Boo, I'm officially joining your fan club. The mild-mannered, trying to be fair and nice, seething inside feeling I can definitely relate to. Oh, the sad, sad stories I could tell.

One thing that might work in this situation is humor. But tone of voice is EVERYTHING! If you can't slip in a little humor (sarcasm) withouit sounding angry, don't try this at home. But if you can, here's a possible script.

Bad guy: Would you like to dance? (Asks for dance after dissing Boo.)
Boo: Hmm. Wow. You really knocked me off my feet last week. I guess you want to try it again? said as sweetly as you can possibly manage.

The message would be delivered and received, but there's nothing he can say in return.

Passive/aggressive, I know, but what the heck!? :twisted: :wink: :lol:

[SwinginBoo]

Jenn that's hilarious! I might try it next time. Oh yes and it's definitely passive aggressive. :wink:

[peachexploration]

I'm realllyyyyy considering moving to a different place or planet. :evil: This has been the most frustrating dance year for me. AARRGGHHH! :headwall: Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. :roll:

[TemptressToo]

Myself playing the devil's advocate...I'm all for not allowing under 21 in clubs. Having done some cocktail waitressing in a club that was 18+...I had a heck of a time with the minors. I cannot begin to tell you now many times I chased minors out of the bathroom while they waited for their "purchaser" AND have actually caught and turned in others caught in the act. When it is my reputation on the line, I simply don't play.

Of course, you are probably the exception to the rule as far as steering clear of the bar/patrons-that-will-buy-FOR-minors, etc...but the truth is...it is MUCH easier to do one's job when that job is not on the line due to underage drinking. There simply is no way around it. You can permanently magic marker the top of the hand, pass out wristbands, and card at the bar...it just doesn't eliminate the kids sitting in the corner in the dark getting somebody of age to buy for you.

I no longer waitress...and thankfully the establishment I worked at has now gone 21 and up...eliminating a lot of headache for some of my co-workers.

[Christina75]

On the subject of 21+ vs. all ages, I do think it's a money issue unfortuately :( When I was a regular swing dancer in Atlanta, it seemed to me that what lead to the decline in clubs offering "swing nights" was the lack of money they were taking in at the bar. Many would do the wristband thing for the over 21's but those of us who could drink usually didn't have the disposable income (think first year out of college and struggling to pay rent) or we just plain couldn't drink AND dance. Tipsy doesn't make for good coordination on the dance floor. Most of us would buy one beer or cocktail and nurse it. The clubs got so frustrated that some of them started charging $1 for a plastic cup of water that had previously been free.

Of course we weren't exactly willing to pay at the door either, so maybe the dancers were to blame for expecting free entertainment. I knew several people that would have a tantrum for having to pay $3 for parking.

The flame burned bright, but it burned out fast.
Christina

[pygmalion]

I'm realllyyyyy considering moving to a different place or planet. :evil: This has been the most frustrating dance year for me. AARRGGHHH! :headwall: Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. :roll:

I missed this, peachexploration. Wanna talk?

[delamusica]

My venting has less to do with others, more to do with clubs. Now, hear this- I maybe 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! This is really more of a problem for me in Austin than in Dallas (I live in both areas)... How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

No kidding - Denver's the same way! Put a giant X on my forehead if you want to - I just want to dance!!!

[delamusica]

Actually, the major swing club is all-ages, which is great. But there's not one single salsa club to go to if you're not 21. GRR.

[peachexploration]

I'm realllyyyyy considering moving to a different place or planet. :evil: This has been the most frustrating dance year for me. AARRGGHHH! :headwall: Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. :roll:

I missed this, peachexploration. Wanna talk?

Oh Pygmalion, I just saw this. Wow, over a month ago. Sorry I missed it, sweety. New dilemna now: So, I know what I "really" want and "need" out of my salsa classes. Think I find it in a new school. I get there today and it is totally different from what they've advertised. Not the same owners, instructors, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. I am not happy. This has been a trying two-year experience. Back on my hiatus again. :cry: I think I may have to do some traveling on the weekends out of my area. Thank goodness for video tape. This sucks big time! :evil: :? Again!!!!!!!!!

[pygmalion]

Yes. I bet I know where you've been this time around. Those folks have a bad rep.


Sorry to hear you got mixed up with the wrong crew. :(

[Genesius Redux]

The rent-a-teacher thing seems kind of lame. At our studio, the teachers will sometimes go out dancing with their students--or you run into them when you're out in the clubs. My teacher even bought me a shot of tequila the other night! 8)

If I were teaching, I'd look at the occasional night out social dancing as a good promotional thing for business. My own teacher has been given the (joke) suggestion that she stand on the street corner wearing a halter top with the words "Dance With This" and her phone number across it. So the next time there's an occasion, I'm going to get her a pair of shorts with the same thing printed on the butt! :lol:

[d nice]

Thats genius. I should get a skin tight tee that says the same.

[Genesius Redux]

:lol: Wouldn't work for me! My body's not my best advertisement! :lol:

[peachexploration]

Yes. I bet I know where you've been this time around. Those folks have a bad rep.


Sorry to hear you got mixed up with the wrong crew. :(

Yeah. I'm okay now. Thank goodness I know enough to be dangerous. :twisted: The sad part is they've taken advantage of so many others. Not just this one but other schools and so-called teachers as well. :? Ballroom is a better choice for learning social dance this area. Definitely. Too bad I'm such a Salsa Nut! :P :D

[ShyDancer]

If I were teaching, I'd look at the occasional night out social dancing as a good promotional thing for business. My own teacher has been given the (joke) suggestion that she stand on the street corner wearing a halter top with the words "Dance With This" and her phone number across it. So the next time there's an occasion, I'm going to get her a pair of shorts with the same thing printed on the butt! :lol:

It is a good advertising idea! The owner of my studio and I were having a chat about the staff wearing shirts with the studio logo on them just last week.. I will have to tell him about this one! He is the sort of guy that always loves a joke :D he'd probably do it :lol: :lol:

[Adwiz]

I may be 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

Move to Canada? :P

[Sarah]

Thats genius. I should get a skin tight tee that says the same.

GIF! GIF!

Cheers
Sarah

[pygmalion]

I may be 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

Move to Canada? :P

Fake ID and/or lots of make-up usually works. :wink: 8) Or an occasional house party? That's what I did in my teens. I couldn't go to the club, so I invited the club (or a subset LOL) to my house. It worked pretty well. 8)

[Sagitta]

Okay I really need to vent. I wasted money, time and gas this evening. There was this latin dance an hour away and I invited someone along. He's kind of tight on money, hasn't been out etc and so I paid for him and myself to enter. I'm the really excited type so I go when the event starts, 5:00 and there is no-one there. I kind of get a little down, and think of leaving, but eventually it starts picking up at 7:00p.m. Meanwhile this guy is not having a great time, etc, and tells me that repeatedly. I eventually decide to be gracious and leave at 7:30. :headwall:

There are some limits to people's graciousness. Next time anyone comes with me they will come to stay until the end, and will be told so right at the start. And I'm never ever again going for any latin dance at opening time too, even to help as I usually do and be an extra follower/leader if they have a free lesson at the start. I was my entire hands of that affair!! :evil: The only exception I will make is the Ithaca Social latin dances where I know that they will definitely be a good crowd.

I've had my say.

[delamusica]

I'm sorry you wasted your time - and to get ripped away right when it started getting better! That really sucks . . . the dance I dj is the same way - people don't start showing up until an hour and a half after we open. It's so hard to get new people to stay until others show up - most are disappointed and leave, and think that I'm just trying to sucker them into staying when I promise that more people always show up. As a result, they never come back - :( ! Much as I hate to give in to the masses, it's true that it's probably more worth your time to stop showing up at the beginning of events. Sad Sad!

[dragon3085]

Oooo! Talk about arrogance! I'm sorry that had to happen to you. :(

My venting has less to do with others, more to do with clubs. Now, hear this- I maybe 19, but I'm willing to pay cover and steer clear of the bar if only salsa clubs would let me in!! This is really more of a problem for me in Austin than in Dallas (I live in both areas)... How do the rest of you under 21's deal with this?

I'll ask some of my friends who teach salsa in Austin where and under 21 year old can go. I know even miguels has had one or two under 21 nights, but there are 5 or 6 new salsa clubs that have opened up to give people alternatives to Miguels. I already emailed you few months ago with the place here in San Antonio that let in minors. BTW avoid Arjons, if the owner had his way it would be 25 and up.

As far as Dallas goes, heck all you got is Blackberry's anyway right? :twisted: Just kidding I know there are one or two more clubs there, just can't think of their names right now. :-P

[ShyDancer]

Thank goodness for this thread!

I apologise in advance for the length..


Right now Im just a touch agitated at the rudeness of my dance classmates yet again!
Some of you may remember I complained about certain girls not showing up for our Pre-paid, structured medal classes.
Well last night they didnt bother showing up AGAIN!
When we were given information on starting the medal class I remember the teacher saying that it would have to be something we are willing to commit to, and that if we were to miss more than 2 out of the 20 classes then it wouldnt be worth spending the money to enrol.
Its bad because they are in 2 of my classes.
This is the 5th class they have missed in 13 weeks of each medal.
Its so frustrating for everyone to have to repeat everything because of these 2 inconsiderate girls. The teacher even mentioned to them that they were really falling behind.
Their excuses for missing class are annoying too, once they said they couldnt come because the had been at a rave party all weekend and were tired, another time because (and I quote here) "It was raining" .... dont even get me started on that!
My darling sister, who has very little tact, complained rather loudly to the teacher.. and as a result the teacher promised that we will be moving onto technique next week, and she will suggest a private lesson to the girls to catch up. The rest of the class was mighty pleased, and the lesson continued with a fresh amount of enthusiasm after realising that the 2 were again missing.

I feel a little better now :D

[SDsalsaguy]

I'd actually be a bit pissed off at the instructor if I were you. If this was set up as a progressive class and due warning was given at the outset (which it sounds like it was), then the class should never have been held back for these two. The class should be progressing at the designated pace, with whatever allowances your instructor finds appropriate for the general level of those who have been in full attendance. Missed material is the responsibility of those absent, period.

[ShyDancer]

You make a really good point SD.

I have a private tomorrow so I will find out exactly where we should be, they must keep some kind of record as to what we should be up to by this week.

[DWise1]

I have one more thing to add to the under 21 age problem. At least as far as swing goes (I'm not sure if other dances are like this) you need to get the younger kids interested in it to keep it alive and thriving. If young people are kept away because of age then you lose interest in the dance. We need to encourage younger people to get involved and learn. IMHO
I was talking with one couple after the beginning swing class telling them about the Lindy nights our instructor has going. Turns out that the two teenage boys in that class are theirs, so the one venue, being 18+, is out of the question for them. But the other one is a ballroom that holds different kinds of dances a few nights a week and which is open for this family since there is no bar.

So, Gisselle, don't just check the clubs but also the ballrooms there. They might have something going on too.

And, yes, liquor laws can be very different in different parts of the country and even in different counties and individual communities. But do ask the management of these establishments what could be worked out -- legally and ethically, of course. Maybe the laws could allow under-21's to attend as long as they are stamped or otherwise "branded" as ineligible to drink, but the club's management never realized that there was any customer demand for them to implement it.

Besides, the under-age crowd could still buy soft drinks which, even though the customer pays less for them than for alcoholic drinks, cost the club much less and so provide them with a much higher profit margin. That point might help to convince a balking manager (provided the local laws would permit).

[dragon3085]

Ok here is what ticks me off. In my studio are fellow students who have been there maybe a year or 2 less then me, but they are not beginners by any means. All I hear from is how they wish they could be better and complaints on how they don't think their instructor is very good. Blah Blah Blah, Thing is, they never go to classes, they never go out and practice they hardly pay attention in the classes they do attend, and then they think its their instructors fault they don't dance at a certain level. Then they point at me and say I've been here almost as long as you. yeah but I'm in the studio 3 times a week or more, even for groups I don't really care for, and I'm out dancing in the club on the weekend when I can afford it and am not call for work. So I wonder when it will dawn of these people that they are only going to get out of dance clases what they put into them in terms of effort.

ok I'm done venting for now.

Pat