How important is fun?

[pygmalion]

When I first started dancing, I went to a studio whose motto was,"we make dancing fun and easy." And they did. Fun was a major part of the equation. And they really annoyed me. The fun was at the expense of learning how to dance. So I moved to a new coach, where fun was still a part of the equation -- just a much smaller part. And, truth be told, the more serious I've become about dancing, the less important is is to me to have fun everyday. I can have fun only every so often, and be okay, as long as I see progress in my dancing. Fun also comes in accomplishment, for me. Of course, I still have fun whenever I dance. It's just less important than it used to be, since I'm working toward an end result.

Question: How important is fun to you? Is it a major component of your dance experience? Is it essential? Is it something you can defer, in order to reach a goal? And is it different depending on whether you're a social or competitive dancer?

Thoughts, anyone?

[Sagitta]

For me having fun is important. If it isn't fun I wouldn't want to do it. I have less fun in class, but lessons are for learning more about dancing and improving my technique. When I go out dancing, though I want to have fun!! If I'm not having fun I walk out and go home.

[vey]

For me, there are two sides of the question here:
1. What is one’s definition of fun.
2. There are different levels of fun.

1. Dancing for me, like all art, is about self-expression. Self-expression brings joy and satisfaction to me, aka FUN. Learning different techniques, steps and moves are meaningful for me only as long as they can help me to express myself and my true feelings better while dancing.

2. Do I have fun learning techniques, steps etc? I do, most of the time, although it’s a different level of fun, it’s also an anticipation of a bigger joy/fun of when I master them and own them to be a part of my self-expression arsenal.

[tsb]

Question: How important is fun to you? Is it a major component of your dance experience? Is it essential? Is it something you can defer, in order to reach a goal? And is it different depending on whether you're a social or competitive dancer?

Thoughts, anyone?

things worth having usually require expending effort. the process of moving towards any goal is often not fun at any given moment in time. so it comes down to: is it worth it? and the answer is different for everyone for any given goal.

the apparent benefits of competitive dancing hold little interest for me when viewed against the amount of resources in time and money i'd have to invest. that's not to say that i haven't had any training towards competitive dancing, i have, and it should also be noted that i get paid to work on & perform routines in ballroom, swing & salsa from time to time (& also do occasionally teaching & escort gigs which is pretty amazing because i don't solicit any of this work at all). but i do it because i have fun learning choreographed (read: aerial/drop/dip/etc.) moves or i get to enjoy the process of working out the mechanics with someone i generally already know and like dancing with anyway. and this gives me balance: i've noted that social dancers work towards dancing well with a lot of people whereas competitive/show dancers tend to focus on dancing well with one or at most only a few partners.

but when it's time to dance socially, my goals are:
- to enjoy the company of the partner i have for the next 3-4 minutes (or longer if it's one of those long latin songs and the DJ can't or won't cut the song short);
- practice/use all the skills i've worked on to make the experience as enjoyable as possible for my partner;

to paraphrase the content of:
http://www.eijkhout.net/lead_follow/social_attitude.html

1) if you decide you're going to have fun, you will;
2) the person who has the most fun is (surprisingly) generally the lesser skilled leader/follower of the couple;

oh what the heck, i'll quote & italicize parts that i think address the original questions:

"Generally, the one with the worse technique has more fun. Part of the goal of having good technique is to help your dance partner have more fun. If you want to have fun, you don't need good technique -- just a *partner* with good technique.

But if you want your dance partner to have more fun, then *you* need good technique. There are elements of social dance that are purely social, where smiles, friendly conversation, succeeding in moving to the music and doing a few basic steps, etc. override whether your partner is leaning on you, jerking you off balance, crushing your hand, trying to step on you, etc. But an amount of technique that enables you to feel good and helps your partner to look good and feel good can only enhance the experience. Some competition technique does look stilted on the social dance floor; but a lot of the technique taught by competition coaches are things that make the dance feel more in balance, more fitting to the character of the music, and smoother to both oneself and ones partner. Sometimes not knowing precisely where to put a certain part of your body results in transferring momentum to your partner and throwing them off balance. The problem you face after you learn what good dance technique feels like, is that you become more sensitive to the bad habits of your partners. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but the better social dancers are adaptive rather than ignorant. Those who can't or don't want to learn to adapt can end up paying their professional dance instructors lots of money. Otherwise, stop being concerned about your partner having fun, and just concentrate on having fun yourself; try Contra or Square or some other dance form where people tend to be less anal-retentive about "technique" but nonetheless enjoy dancing together. Fun is primary, because fun is what motivates people to *continue* dancing. If they happen to enjoy learning tons of technique as beginners, or they want to move right into competition, fine - but I don't think that's true of most people."

(and i did do contra dancing for a while but encountered ladies who insisted on grabbing & swinging me in ways that forced me to see my chiropractor regularly so i gave that up)

[pygmalion]

tsb. Great post, and great quote.

I am concentrating on competitive dance now, and in lessons, while I'm practicing, watching myself on video, etc., I'm seriously focused toward my dance/technical goals.

But when I'm out social dancing, I just want to have fun (hmm Cyndi Lauper flashback). Those occasional spurts of pure, mindless fun are what it's all about, and what keeps me going. Fun. Gotta have fun, and be fun to dance with.

Let's face it, I can be a good, even a very good dancer, with a lot more work. But I'll never be a world class dance athlete. I started too late. So why do it at all, if there's no element of pure fun involved?

[tsb]

tsb. Great post, and great quote.

thanks.


Fun. Gotta have fun, and be fun to dance with.


sometimes you get a partner that makes both halves of that a challenge; last night i wasn't paying attention (normally i turn to somebody nearby and ask them to dance or head towards the lavatory/drinks/whatever when i see her coming my way/trying to make eye contact. generally i can respond by saying i'm sitting this one out but i was approaching someone else but hadn't made eye contact yet.) and a lady who is a notorious bad follower/hijacker asked me to dance. i imagine my own bad attitude going influenced things, but it was the worst dance i've had in a long time - she set her own tempo, and fought my lead the whole dance. i had to resort to driving the heel of my hand into her armpit to move her out of the way of an oncoming couple. ugh.

[Sagitta]

Speaking of that bad follower you had tsb brings up one of the dances that I had with a follower tonight. This lady was bopping up and down and there was no way that I could get her to follow me, and unfortunately I couldn't bop up and down to that particular song...I tried - even though that's not zydeco - but I failed. :cry: Only one person tonight and I danced with many beginners so, not bad!

[tsb]

that's not zydeco

i've heard of it (mainly from my contra/folk circles), but i have no idea of what zydeco is. it's supposed to be pretty fun.

[tsb]

Only one person tonight and I danced with many beginners so, not bad!

another thought: if you asked me i would probably respond that i try to follow the established rules of dance etiquette as i know them, including the ones about trying to dance with everyone and not monopolizing people but as i review my behavior over the last year i see that it's lip service. i used to dance with a lot of beginners for a number of years but now that i do it more often in the context of giving instruction and/or being an escort it's like "hey, other dancers this... BAD will pay me to dance with them for an evening." and it's becoming more difficult to be motivated to have fun because it seems too much like work sometimes. i never thought i'd ever feel that way, you know, the idea of "the worst day fishing (dancing) still beats the best day at work". but maybe dancing 4-5 nights a week finally caught up with me! <sigh>

or i need to find a girlffriend who dances! :)

[Sagitta]

that's not zydeco

i've heard of it (mainly from my contra/folk circles), but i have no idea of what zydeco is. it's supposed to be pretty fun.

Zyedo as music is accordion-based music from south-central and southwest Louisiana. The partnered dance has 6 steps in a 8 beat basic. It is slow, quick, quick, slow, quick, quick. So in a way it is like dancing salsa on 3, except that the dancing posture and music are different. :)

[Swing Kitten]

I think the only thinkg I can really add (other than supporting what has already been said-- which is right on) is that often it seems that fun is equated with instant gratification. Despite how fun instant gratification is fun is deeper than that as well.

[bordertangoman]

I don't do fun. But I do enjoy dancing. :(

Dancing for me is serious, but mutual enjoyment is important. I had a really nice dance with a beginner, who had done a lot of ballet so her balance was excellent and movement just flowed.She said I was a very smooth dancer but she was bringing that out of me so we had a synergistic effect. (Sum greater than the parts) :?

A friend commented after watching a tango demonstration that the expressions on the faces of the dancers were very serious and it put her off. I don't think she understood. DIfferent horses for different courses.

I do have fun when I teach. Laughing is important to help people to relax and not to worry when they make mistakes.

[dancin_feet]

To me fun is critical for the beginner. If they are having fun, it lessens the self consciousness that most people feel when starting out. Once you get a taste for it though, for me anyway, the fun changes.

I don't need to be laughing constantly during a class, be it private or group. Just to be there and moving to music is fun to me. Even when I'm not getting something, it's a challenge and that in itself is fun (in it's own way) to work hard and get past that obstacle.

I have dropped a couple of group lessons because some of the people attending the group are just there for "fun" and are always mucking up or have something smart to say. You lose the "learning" aspect once you know the steps if the group goes in that direction. If I had endless amounts of money, I would still go to the groups, but with limited funds (as with most people), I need to make the most of the groups I do attend. I now concentrate more on my private lessons to fine tune the steps I have learned during the groups.

[dragon3085]

We have a name for things we do that are not fun, we call it work. Thats why they have pay us to do it. Why pay to do something you not enjoying?

[Sagitta]

Having slept on this one...let me rephrase what I said earlier...when I talk about having fun I'm talking about an enjoyment that one feels through and through, from one's toes to one's fingers. It is an entire bodily expression. In class/lessons while focussing on technique that connection isn't as strong, but when I can let my body respond to the music and partner socially, that's when I really have fun!! :D

[pygmalion]

We have a name for things we do that are not fun, we call it work. Thats why they have pay us to do it. Why pay to do something you not enjoying?
Good observation, dragon3085. Why do it, if it's not fun? I guess my view, or part of it, is that there are at least two kinds of fun -- the instant gratification kind of fun, and the hard-earned, got it eventually kind of fun. I have to have one of them. But I don't have to be having jolly old instant gratification every day in order to be having "fun." Hope that makes sense. :?