Argentine Tango or Ballroom Tango?

[DanceMentor]

I'm curious which one you prefer to dance and why.
I'm also curious if you think it is appropriate to dance Argentine Tango at a ballroom party or Ballroom Tango at a Milonga.
Your thoughts?

Note concerning the poll: I believe you have to be a registered member in order to cast your vote (probably to prevent people from voting twice).

[Anonymous]

I went to an Argentine Tango function, and not knowing any Argentine style, my partner and I danced the Ballroom style that we've known for a few years now. In my conversations with people at the function I got the impression that I would be better off going somewhere else. My question: Is this normal? Am I a dancer trying to have fun surrounded by purists who don't want me infuse my dancing with theirs? Will they come to accept me?

By the way I have signed up for an Argentine Tango class, but I can't imagine not mixing in some of the Ballroom style that I have come to love.

[SDsalsaguy]

Hi Alison and welcome to the forums! :D

While each venue is different, my guess is that what you experienced is pretty much the norm. From what I know the Argentinean Tango crowd & scene are the purists of the dance world – more then any other dancers/dance style, all they care about is Argentinean Tango. As with any such generalization there are, of course, exceptions (both locally and individually) but, by and large, I do not think that non-"authentic" elements will be very welcome.

The salsa scene is probably the next most simm8ilar in this regard but, from the people I've met and talked to, Argentinean Tango dancers – as a group – are more then content with nothing else and, in point of fact, prefer this purism/concentration.

At some level this makes some sense to me, since the lead and follow are actually of individual weight shifts (as opposed to of steps), so the room for intricacies and development therewith is, ultimately, of a different magnitude.

As far as the poll questions is concerned, I voted for ballroom but this is because I don't know more then three or so "patterns" (already showing a ballroom bent) in Argentinean. I love to watch Argentinean, however, and would very much like to learn when opportunity permits.

[will35]

Concerning the poll: I am surprised to see that Argentine Tango even stands a chance against ballroom. I know the question is which one the voter likes to dance, but it would be interesting to see which one the voter likes to watch more. I voted for Argentine Tango, because it is so much more than any other dance. In fact, I do not consider Argentine Tango a dance at all. Why? The difference in one dance and the next are the particular steps and particular rhythm. We don't really have steps in Argentine tango, and the music can be danced with a million different rhythms. So, if Argentine Tango is not a particular dance because there are no steps and no rhythm (not to mention that there are several types of music, waltz, tango, milonga that use the tango dance system), then what is Argentine Tango? I suggest it is an entirely different WAY to dance. The way the leader just picks a direction to move and the follower follows without knowing any tiny choreographies beforehand is completley unlike ballroom style which is another WAY to dance. Now, we get to the question about AT dancers not accepting other WAYS to dance on the milonga floor. There are several issues. First is the music. A good AT dancer just lets the music do the real leading. If the music is sad, guess what, the dancer moves his body that way. If it is languid or sly or sophisticated or fun or even sexy, guess what, the dancer moves that way. The ballroomer is stuck with what he and his partner know beforehand. Even if they are double platinum 24 Karat syllabus, it is still so much less than a good AT dancer can do. So, the AT dancer takes up the slack by moving around the ballroomer on the floor. Because the AT dancer can. He/she can stop, start, move right , left, back whatever at any time without going through a pattern to get in the right position. And good AT dancers very seldom kick other good AT dancers in the head on the floor. The second point is that AT is a social dance. That means when a good leader goes to the milongas, ALL the ladies want to dance with him. The same with a good follower. And they all can dance with each other without asking questions about syllabus or whatever. So, if you are not prepared to be a part of the milonga, it is not a good idea to go. And it is impossible to be a part of what is going on in the milonga if you cannot dance with just any old body there. Here is another difference. It is a question of competition. Ballroomers love competition, but they don't understand the kind of competition that AT dancers love. The good AT dancer is always competing, with himself. It is a lifelong study and a quest to be the best one can be, not the best at executing someone else's plan. Because there is no plan, no syllabus, etc. Just the music and the couple. When I am at milongas, and a new leader comes in who is really good, I can hear the women start to whisper among themselves. The one who just danced with him says, "I really recommend you dance with him." It is not about how they show off together or how many steps he knows. He has a feel for the music and he lets it guide him, and the follower gets it(because a good follower has sensitivity). The follower understands what the leader is saying without a word. I certainly hope no ballroomers are offended by what I write, but ballroom dances are just dances, AT is a completley different way to dance and a different way of thinking about dance. It is the most social of social dances. The only thing that comes close is Lindy, and after all, it is not even close. Alison asks if AT dancers will ever accept her. I can only say that I think GOOD AT dancers accept one thing: dedication. That is dedication to the dance, the music, the partner, the floor on which it is practiced because there are others dancing too, and dedication to the culture from which the dance came. Even the best AT dancers that are famous and so forth still learn and adapt their dance to the music and to their partners. It is something to work on and create for the rest of your life, not something with a certificate of competence and a number pinned on your back at the end.

[MissAlyssa]

I'm not going to vote because I have never danced Argentine and I rarely dance ballroom tango. I think this is a really good topic for the tango lovers though!! :D

[msc]

DM-
Either one, depending on the music. I've seen a really cool Tango routine by Georgiani and Manfredini, where they switch from Argentine to Milonga to Standard and back, as the music switches. The athletcisim and speed required for a strong standard Tango probably makes it my favorite though.

Alison-
Think Foxtrot, without the rise and fall. There's no percussive beat to AT, the music is fairly smooth, so the dancers tend to move in a smooth fashion. All the other rules apply, regarding posture, center tone, leading following from the center, continuous weight transfer, etc. The hips usually are more neutral, rather than forward poised as you would have in standard. In the old-fashioned AT, the foreheads actually touch as the top lines lean towards each other, that's not the way it's usually danced, but I've run up on a few Argentine ladies who enjoy that style.

will typifies the attitude of many in the AT community. Whatever. It's a nice dance, but not really superior to WCS or Salsa, just different.

[SDsalsaguy]

Wow, must have been a great show! I've "only" seen them compete, but I imagine that if any couple could really do justice to such a crossover performance it would have to be them or Pino/Bucciarelli. I did see Georgiani/Manfredini when they won the 2002 World Classic Showdance title and man, that was something I'll never forget. The pure power, snap, and rotation of their pivot actions are something I've never seen duplicated. I'll have the chance to see them do a show in October so am really looking forward to that. :D

[will35]

So, this means somebody is voting for one or the other but not saying why. Very sneaky.

[will35]

MSC,
What do you mean by "continuous weight transfer"?

Well, still nobody is saying why they prefer to dance one or the other. Shows and routines are one thing. A social dance is another. Athleticism is fine. I like to watch Michael Jordan play ball, but I don't know if I want to dance with him.
Just so we don't argue over semantics here, I'd like to say that I don't recall writing in any post about better or best. If I did, I apologize. What I should say is that we might make a comparison between ALL ballroom dances and Argentine Tango. There is certainly no comparison between Argentine Tango and American Tango. If Argentine Tango is a dance, then American Tango is a little piece of a dance. People like to claim that American and French or International style tango have their roots in Argentine. I suggest they were completley uprooted when people started to teach and learn steps instead of learning HOW to dance the Tango. It happened in the early days in France and England, and it happens today when somebody who has never danced THE ARGENTINE WAY walks into a milonga and says, "Show me how to do a gancho." As though it would really do any good to gancho some poor lady to death all night without even knowing how to walk WITH a partner WITH the music around a room.
What MSC says is absolutely correct. Argentine Tango is different. It takes some time to learn just how different. Argentine Tango is the perfect popular artistic expression of a fantastic, diverse, fascinating culture. When we agree to the dance, we adopt the culture as our own for a few minutes. It would be quite an insult to do anything less. We are even allowed to re-create the culture expressing our own personailties in the dance. The milonga re-creates the art form every night. Every night, the Tango comes out different, but with what it was before and more. Argentine Tango is as nearly limitless an expression as a true social dance can be. American Tango simply is not.

[msc]

Actually "continuous transfer of weight" was not the right phrase, but anyway, by continuous transfer of weight, I mean that the weight distribution should evenly transfer from one foot to another. You must pass through a split weight position, where the weight is 50% on either foot (and hence your torso is exactly between your feet,) and continuously or smoothly drive off the supporting foot and receive to the new foot. Hence you don't drive entirely off the supporting foot, then catch with the receiving foot, as many are wont to do. Of course, you should do this in every dance, as long as you aren't doing hopping/kicking/skipping movements.

Here's the point I wanted to make. The weight transfer is not heavily accelerated/decelerated, as is the case in International Tango, but more of a soft flowing nature, as in foxtrot. Also forgot to mention that the steps are taken on the ball of the foot, so that when stepping forward, although you may use compression, you don't stretch the stride out as you would in foxtrot.

The feature that makes AT unique, more than any other, is the emphasis on flicks and kicks. Often times the expression is entirely through the legs, although a trained eye could still detect subtle contractions through the center of a "keen" AT dancer.

One more thing for Alison ... imagine if you went to a Salsa club, and in the middle of the floor, you danced a West Coast Swing or a Lindy Hop. Even if you were right on time, you'd probably get less than friendly looks from the local partisans. That's essentially what you did, even if you didn't realize it at the time.

I'm not a big fan of American style Tango, you're certainly correct that it is mostly a show dance. It usually ends up being a watered down mixture of Paso Doble and International Tango, although a really talented couple can make it look quite nice. I also prefer AT to American Tango, no doubt. AT is far superior to American Tango as a social dance, indeed preferable to International Tango in crowded rooms. In fact AT is about the only "smooth" dance that really works in a smallish room.

[will35]

I see what you mean about the weight transfer. A simple thing I have heard some teachers use is to teach the new dancers to "collect the feet" between steps. This keeps the follower ready for a movement in any direction. It also puts a little hitch in the step and is not terribly smooth until many hours of practice. But it works.
Certainly the great majority of the movement spectators see in Argentine Tango is from the waist down. But all the movement necessary to make it danceable comes from above the waist. The part about the flicks and kicks I can only call debatable. As a social dance (and I always speak of the Tango that way, even though I don't say it) is very versatile. I am not a very good dancer, and I have never been on a stage, but I can honestly say that I think I have done maybe ten ganchos in my life. My partners have done even fewer boleos. I am also not a fan of sacadas, though they are all lovely in the right place at the right time. I might be wrong about this, but I have found that the longer a person has been dancing the tango, no matter the person's age or generation or nationality, the fewer the kick type things the person does. The thing about a person's tango is that it gets simpler and simpler and almost always more beautiful with time.

[will35]

From last post:
"no matter the person's age or generation or nationality, the fewer the kick type things the person does. The thing about a person's tango is that it gets simpler and simpler and almost always more beautiful with time."

I see I broke my own rule here. I projected my idea about what is tango onto others. A person's style does not necessarily grow simpler, it grows more "them". If a person is stylistically simple in his/her life, the dance becomes simpler. They have learned all the tricks and eschewed most of them to find their own style. On the other hand, some people get trickier and trickier as time goes by. This is also beautiful if it is sincere. It is a question of personality, and finding oneself takes a good long time.

[DanceMentor]

I have always loved Argentine Tango, but I have never learned as much as I would like. I was already a ballroom dancer and I performed the tango at a nightclub weekly. I would learn Argentine tango and then incorporate it into my ballroom. I tried to do pure Argentine tango in my performances, but I would always go back to Ballroom. It's kind of like quitting smoking--very difficult. I voted for ballroom out of habit, but I really appreciate Argentine tango, though some may not believe me.

[sambagirl]

I'm an International Latin dancer so you might think I'd choose International/American Tango, but I'm also a hopeful tanguera. Dancing Argentine Tango is an experience unlike any other partner dance I've done -- including other Latin dances, Ballroom, Swing, WCS. When AT works you feel like your torso is being carried around the dance floor on someone else's legs. It's a very internal pleasure, and one that took me a while to achieve.

I'm such an AT dancer that I've danced AT to International Tango songs at a ballroom function, without too much negative comment. I do have to say that ballroom dancers are a much more tolerant lot than AT dancers: I wouldn't recommend the reverse.

The one thing I can't stand about AT is the pretentiousness and preciousness of the people who dance it. Yes, yes, so many people don't "get" the AT experience and what it's about, and the extraordinary concentration and focus you need to be a good AT partner -- that "living in the moment" thing that AT demands more than any other dance. But the buying into the AT lifestyle thing really turns me off. I DO intend to spend the rest of my life doing AT (not sure I can say that about other dances), but I hope to find other tangueros who are willing to lighten up and stop theorizing!

[whtraven]

Hello Fellow dancers.

I really enjoyed what will had to say. He is right on. I started with Ballroom and slowly moved over to the Argentine Tango side. Now, I only dance tango (with my favorite being vals).
You have to understand where the tango comes from and that is Argentina. Yes, it was danced differently a hundred years ago when it was introduced to the Europeans than now, but the fact remains of its origins.
In Europe the elite wanted to dance this new hip dance and to make it easy to teach and learn it was standardized; steps were created, and the soul was stolen. For like Will said, every dance is different depending on music and partner. Even the same song played four times in row (as often is case at end of night) in different arrangements can be as different as night and day.
I do disagree with another poster that the emphasis of tango is in kicks. The emphasis is on the feeling; the connection. It is why it is called the Dance of the Heart. It is this connection that keeps me coming back. It keeps eluding me, which is why it is calling chasing the ghost (soon upcoming documentary on old Tangueros of BsAs). I have only had that undescribable feeling a few times since moving to Tango year and a half ago, but the promise of getting to feel that way again keeps me sucked in. It is that giddy feeling inside that makes you want to jump, to scream, to cry, and to laugh all at the same time.
It is true, that Tango community does not embrace ballroom tango dancers. Part of the reason is the difficulty of navigation with other styles of tango. Most authentic milongas are packed tight - like most Glen Miller Orchestra balls are, with the exception that tango dancers have floorcraft, and can adapt their style of dance to the floor conditions. You have lanes, you stay on your lane, you do not pass, you do not hold people up, you use corners, you ask for permission to enter the floor, etc etc etc.
Certainly the tango community could embrace few of the ethics from the ballroom side, such as dressing up, walking the woman off the floor, etc (I am one of the few to do both - fo which all of the women thank me).
I think for that reason it is easier for the ballroom community to ignore or to accept AT dancers at balls than for AT dancers to ignore ballroom dancers at Milongas; Tango dancers can navigate on the floor and do not cause conflict; even if they like to do gaunchos or boleos excessively. The few ballroom dancers that come to the events I attend cause many collisions and headache.
I didn't vote but I vote Tango! :)

oh btw, there are also a dozen styles to dance all three types of tango,
Salon, Milonguero, Nuevo, Fantasy, Stage, etc etc.

[tangogirrl]

I am a professional ballroom competitor/instructor/studio owner AND a hopeless fanatic of AT. (Just so y'all know where I'm coming from). One of the observations I have made between the 2 scenes reiterates much of what I've already read, but here's my 2cents anyway.

I think that there is a HUGE misunderstanding by AT dancers that ballroom dancing is not lead. I beg to differ. I think that often, newer ballroom instructors teach steps instead of technique; however, anyone who had done ballroom dancing long enough (dedicated enough time) will come to understand all the subtle nuances of lead&follow that DO exist in ALL of the various forms of dance. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. I will admit that there tends to be too much emphasis place on patterns in the Ballroom World :oops: , but that does not mean that the top professionals can only do pre-patterned steps. In fact, to think that ballroom dances is just a bunch of choreography is the assumption that I find to be the most ridiculous :shock: . Might I remind people that ballroom is also a social activity. :lol:

I also have to reiterate that the AT scene could use some ettiquette lessons from the Ballroom scene. I do realize that there are many cultural differences and that the expectations and standards may not always be compatible, but I do feel like it IS important to dress up and to escort the lady on and off the floor.

Speaking of floor, I also have to beg to differ regarding the post that claimed that only AT dancers can manuver the floor. Again, anyone who has done Ballroom dance long enough learns proper floorcraft. Unfortunately there are not enough really good technicians that teach this skill and not enough people who will dedicate enough time to learning it :roll: . My experience with AT is that it is actually much less complicated to manuver and have good floorcraft than with other ballroom dances. (And yes, I've led both AT and Ballroom). So it might seem that all AT dancers learn how to manuver, when in reality it is just much easier to do so.

That's all for now.
Tangogirrl

[msc]

Amen to that, tangogirrl.

[twoleftfeet]

I love AT. I enjoy ballroom too. I think AT dancers can be a bit difficult and sometimes I wish they would drop the attitude, but I still love it. I will say AT has improved my ability to follow. I am much more in tune with my partner because of AT.

Perhaps because I am such a big fan of AT, I think the American style looks too theatrical. It just doesn't resonate with me. But, I have seen beautiful American tango.

I would NOT recommend going to a milonga and dancing American style. My observation is AT people would NOT appreciate that gesture at all. I have danced AT at the ballroom studio where I take classes and no one seemed to object although it is important, as with all dance, to honor line of dance.

I have enjoyed the discussion. Thanks to all participants.

[will35]

First, let me say that I only said I never met anybody who really liked both Argentine and American Tango. That does not mean it is an undesirable or impossible thing to do. If you like them both, good. I have yet to say that I dislike Ballroom Tango, either.
As to theorizing, I don't know what to say. I prefer to be on the floor, but you know how things are. We don't very often just exchange pleasantries and compliments when we talk about things we love. "The nature of criticism is that it is mostly bad", or something like that, said Flannery O'Connor.

"In fact, to think that ballroom dances is just a bunch of choreography is the assumption that I find to be the most ridiculous . Might I remind people that ballroom is also a social activity." -Tangogirl

Ballroom dance would be a much more social activity if someone could gather together all the syllabi and competitions and throw them in the trash. Or did someone who does not dance the ballroom dances infiltrate and destroy the fun by regulating everything years ago? Everywhere you look there are rules in ballroom. Step here, don't step there, wear the right clothing, smile, smile , smile. Look like you are having fun. The ballroom dances have themselves to blame for it. I could think of no more malicious slander than to call dance a sport. Yet, there it is. It does not come from the Argentine Tango "scene".

"I also have to reiterate that the AT scene could use some ettiquette lessons from the Ballroom scene." -Tangogirl

Possibly, but I was trying not to refer so much to the dancers as to the dance itself. I still maintain that the Argentine Tango, not the "scene" is the most social of all social dances.

"My experience with AT is that it is actually much less complicated to manuver and have good floorcraft than with other ballroom dances. (And yes, I've led both AT and Ballroom). " -Tangogirl

Well, you said it, not me. Just any old idiot who dances the Argentine can maneuver. Again, I am talking about the dance not the dancers. There are even some experienced Argentine Tango dancers who choose not to maneuver well.
Although I do escort my partners from the table and back, I think any girl who can get around the room with a partner can also do it alone. I have also noticed that almost all the misunderstandings that we Americans have with the acceptance and the end of a dance in Argentine Tango stem from the neglect of the Argentine way to do things. They call it the "cabeceo," and it works perfectly every time. Americans don't like it much, but we haven't come up with anything nearly as functional.
You may come to one of my milongas and dance the other tangos if I can dance at your dance parties with dirt all over my favorite pair of crusty, old jeans. And foul smelling breath, too. And barerfoot. With soot and ketchup smeared on my face. And little pieces of food falling from my tee shirt.

[will35]

I meant "barefoot."

[pygmalion]

I'm showing my complete and total ignorance here. Be warned. :)

I've only ever seen AT danced by others, and attended one or two introductory-type group classes. But it's such a beautiful and sensual dance, and I want to learn.

Where do you start?

[will35]

Pygmalion, that is a very common question with a very difficult answer. Group classes are not bad. Private classes are not bad. Classes at the local ballroom studio are not necessarily bad. There are some ballroom instructors who might be very good AT instructors. There are Argentines, Americans, French, Belgians, etc. who might all be good. The best advice I heard when starting out was to look at the way the teachers dance, and then try them out as teachers. If you see a teacher dance, and you say, "I want to dance like that," then try it. But remember that somewhere in the middle of it all, you might say, "I don't want to dance like that after all." Then, you switch teachers. A famous Argentine couple said that in the beginning they went around learning a little from each teacher. Now they are famous stage dancers. They come around to the big cities every now and then to do classes. As a pedagogical approach, I lean a little toward the style of what some people call the "Nuevo" people. I am not naming names.
Whatever you do, have fun and good luck. If you like videos, you can give that a shot, too. There is a list on tejastango.com.
Dance with everybody you can find. You'll probably learn more that way than any other. You don't have to take any of my advice. I am not a teacher or a good dancer myself. I just love to see people enjoy the tango, because it is so much fun.

[pygmalion]

Thanks for the input. Actually there's a studio in town that advertises that they specialize in AT. I've never seen anyone from that studio dance, though, so I think I'll ask around first, and see if anybody's got the skinny on them.

[will35]

Just say in what part of Florida you live. No names.

[pygmalion]

Orlando. The couple I'm thinking of has a studio nearby, and are starting a series of group classes within a week or so. I've heard from others that they do a fair amount of performance, and they also run summer workshops for kids.

Does that help, without betraying any confidential info? :)

[will35]

Sounds like fun. I don't know Orlando.

[pygmalion]

I'll check it out and let you know.

Jenn

[DancePoet]

I voted for AT, but was surprised to discover the 10-3 vote.

[newbie]

Maybe, for sake of equity, this poll should also be posted in the "ballroom" section....

[pascal]

Maybe, for sake of equity, this poll should also be posted in the "ballroom" section....

Yeah, what if a "Do you prefer Salsa or A.T ? " poll was posted in the Salsa threads ? The score would be ten thousand to zero.

[bordertangoman]

Maybe, for sake of equity, this poll should also be posted in the "ballroom" section....

Yeah, what if a "Do you prefer Salsa or A.T ? " poll was posted in the Salsa threads ? The score would be ten thousand to zero.


Therefore? One AT dancer is worth XXX salsa dancers.

(fill in XXX with your own number) :wink: :wink:

[bjp22tango]

There should be a "I like them equally well choice"

I actually like all three "Tango" styles AT, American, and Standard but I don't really consider them the same dance.

They have evolved in such different directions and even the music used has evolved in three different variants. You can hear a "Tango" and say to yourself That is AT, or that is American, or that is Standard.

I like them all because each requires something different to express them well.

Comparing the three styles is like comparing a Bolero to a Rumba to a Salsa. They all share the same roots in music but have evolved differently over time.

The same for Lindy Hop, WC Swing, and EC Swing,

[dancin_feet]

Ballroom Tango is my staple. I fell in love with it from my first group lesson 18 months ago. I just love the attitude to it and some of the figures are pretty funky too.

That said, I love AT even more. Maybe because I don't dance it as often and don't know it as intimately so it's still a bit of a mystery to me, but it is definitely my favourite of the two.

So much so that when I suggested to my instructor that I wanted to do a Tango showcase this time around, I told him I wanted AT in there as well. For some reason that the studio has come up with, we can't say we are doing a hybrid Tango/AT routine, but we are styling it with AT kicks and movements. It's going to be great!!

[Patapouf]

I voted tango argentino! I'm totally addicted to it. It's very different from ballroom. When I do ballroom tango, throughout the whole dance I think more about the steps and patterns, and don't feel anything. But when I do AT, it's a totally different thing. There's no steps to think about, just so totally into the music, the feelings, and the dance, each time I have a good dance with a partner I feel like I just had a great conversation with my partner, even though no words were spoken or needed at all. I love AT! :D

[ReneeJoan]

As everybody already knows, I'm a one trick pony, so I dance tango to everything. I've never had anybody at a ballroom party complain about this, since I manage to do this one thing so well I always manage to get plenty of partners. If anybody attempted to throw me out because I wasn't dancing "correctly" to the music, all I can say is, I've seen plenty of ballroom dancers whom I don't think, personally, dance anything like what the music is either, so there. I've paid my money fair and square to dance, so there. Shut up and dance, already.

I'd have to say, that the reverse attitude should go at an argentine milonga. If you, as a ballroom dancer, paid your money to come in and dance, then dance. If somebody doesn't like your style of dancing, then tell them you don't like theirs either, and theirs is even less authentic than yours, so there. However, you might not want to say this too loudly. It may just be better to ignore the critics, look totally absorbed in the music, and just keep dancing. Unlike a ballroom dance party, at a milonga, arguments over authenticity of style can lead to knife fights.

Seriously, when I dance tango with a partner who doesn't know argentine tango, but does know american ballroom tango, I just tell my partner to dance the steps that he knows, and I'll dance tango with him the best I can. It's all tango to me, anyway. So far, this seems to work pretty well.

In the end, it's all tango to me, and always will be, I suppose. So, I vote tango.

Renee

[tsb]

I meant "barefoot."

fyi, you can edit your posts.

[tsb]

My experience with AT is that it is actually much less complicated to manuver and have good floorcraft than with other ballroom dances. (And yes, I've led both AT and Ballroom). So it might seem that all AT dancers learn how to manuver, when in reality it is just much easier to do so.


if you recognize that a lot of moves AT evolved out of a need to maneuver around tables in a crowded cafe & if the instructor explains it that way ("this is the move & these are good places to use them within the context of the music" as one teacher i've studied with does) the concept of maneuvering is actually quite more simple than with ballroom LOD figures.

i did not vote because i like both (although i'm still much more proficient at ballroom tango, mainly because i can't stand going to milongas - if i may plagarize what one of my dance mentors said about WCS - i like AT - i just don't like the people who dance it.) but would rather do a waltz or a foxtrot over either.

[Kitty]

I prefer ballroom one cause I know how to dance it and don't know enough about argentine (although i did make attempts to fake it several times).

[Chris Stratton]

I think AT is more often maneuverable for three reasons:

1) AT dancers are usually encouraged to think of what is possible in a language of smaller actions - they are more aware of their options - than most ballroom dancers.

2) With a non-strict concept of hold and body positions, some motions (particularly forms of turn) are possible in AT that would not be possible or at least not easy in ballroom tango.

3) AT is more closely followed, with less tendancy to build up momentum in a given direction. Not that I think ballroom tango really should either, but it happens most of the time unfortunately.

But most of these are limitations of practice rather than of possibilty. Well trained ballroom dancers are aware of the basic (sub-figure) elements of their language and can recombine them. They are comfortable in some unusual positions - fallaway, left side outside, etc and can make use of those without distorting their hold. Finally, well connected ballroom couples can manage to have a sharp tango, without building up the kind of momentum that would commit them to taking additional steps in a direction that might have become blocked.

[Alias]

Argentine Tango and Ballroom Tango are two dissimilar dances which are entirely differents, and which are not danced on the same musics.
And Ballroom Tango is much closer to other Ballroom dances (in International Standard).

I'm curious which one you prefer to dance and why.

Without hesitation I prefer Argentine Tango, because I prefer the music and the dance.
There are many reasons and it would be too long to tell right now here in detail.
I have general reasons to prefer (Argentine Tango, swing dance, salsa dance) to Ballroom dance, and some specific to prefer Argentine Tango to Ballroom Tango.

I'm interested in social dancing and not in competition, and I want to reach (or target) the higher levels in dance (which means doing competition in Ballroom, while the best dancers in AT or swing dance or salsa dance are on the floor in social dance).
I want more room for freedom improvisation imagination invention personal dance.
I want to integrate dance in partner dancing, and for example in AT you might possibly integrate some classical or contemporary dance (ballet stuff).

Note:
I know some Ballroom dances (among which Ballroom tango) because I've taken lessons (beginner and intermediate, but not the higher levels which are targeted to competition because I'm not interested in competition) and I've been as a spectator to some Ballroom competition (DanceSport).

I know Argentine Tango because I've taken lessons (from beginner to advanced) with many teachers (this phase is completed) and I've gone to the various practica and bals in my local AT scene (dancing and watching some people dance), and I've seen professional dancers in bals and I've been as a spectator to Argentine Tango shows on stage.

[Alias]

I'm also curious if you think it is appropriate to dance Argentine Tango at a ballroom party or Ballroom Tango at a Milonga.

According to me a general principle (in any social dance place) is that as long as you respect your partner (first of all don't hurt her) and the other dance couples on the floor (first of all don't hurt them and don't invade their dance space or be in their way) you can dance the way you want.
I also find it interesting to dance another dance than the usual one associated with the music, that is following the rules of the other dance while fitting the way of dancing to this music.
For example I can and sometimes prefer to dance some swing dance or salsa dance to argentine tango music (I have the level to fit this music with these dances systems).

But people in a place dedicated to a particular dance expect the persons to dance this particular dance, otherwise it can be seen as an intrusion, of course it is not the same in the case of an unknown couple (which enforce the idea of intrusion) and the case of a known couple which can also dance the dedicated dance well enough.

I think that AT dancers can be less accepting of Ballroom tango at a milonga (partly) because they may want to claim that Argentine Tango and Ballroom Tango are not the same (as they can be affected by the fact that the general public (non initiate) will mistaken AT with some caricatural Ballroom tango), or because they could be afraid of collision or being in the way (they can think that Ballroom tango is less manoeuvrable).

On the other way people in Ballroom are accustomed to the multi dances idea (they learn and dance many Ballroom dances) and ... I think dancing Argentine Tango at a ballroom party would be more accepted.

[Hamez]

My vote went to AT. I also have a bit of personal experience with the question.

I have danced AT to other dances at the local ballroom club. I can find a corner somewhere, keep it small and not bother anyone. I never got any disapproving looks either.

On the other hand I've been at a moderatly busy milonga where some people decided to do swing. Ugg.. What a mess. It screwed up the LOD and every time you got near them you had to wonder if you were about to get hit. It was very disruptive. One of the neatest aspects of AT for me is the conneciton /w my parner and trying to deliver the tango trance. That is very difficult to do when your worried about her safty.

Additionaly, at a busy milonga your lucky to make it 100 feet down the line of dance in a song.. (thats less than 6" a second). I havn't seen any ballroom dances that actualy move LOD go that slow. You also have to be prepared to dance in place if the need arrises. I danced in one milonga where I got about 10 feet down LOD in a song. You just couldn't go any faster.

As unfair as it seems my view is:

You can dance AT anywhere
You cannot dance Non-AT at a milonga (except perhapse non tango tandas)

[Sagitta]

One should be able to dance any non-progrerssive dance anywhere. I know that I can dance salsa in a pretty small space, though swing does seem to require a little more.

[ColinP]

I'm not voting on this. Taking the question literally, I'd have to answer that I prefer Argentine tango.

But I feel it would be fairer to compare AT (with its companion dances milonga and tango vals) to all five Standard ballroom dances. I find the variety of tempo and dance styles available within AT seems similar to the variety in Standard that is given by the different dances.

And between AT and Standard, I'd hate to have to choose. I don't dance ballroom at present, but that's due to circumstances: we have a particularly vibrant local AT scene, but not much chance of finding a partner for ballroom.

....Colin.

[Yliander]

my vote went to Argentine Tango - love the chemisty/fire of it and the connection between the partners. Also love the lines and movement of it.

like some of the bits of ballroom but over all I dislike the coldness and distance of it - looking in the opposite direction of my partner seem wrong for a partner dance

[bordertangoman]

my vote went to Argentine Tango - love the chemisty/fire of it and the connection between the partners. Also love the lines and movement of it.

like some of the bits of ballroom but over all I dislike the coldness and distance of it - looking in the opposite direction of my partner seem wrong for a partner dance

I think this is an exaggeration of a natural position where your heads are cheek to cheek. From what little I've seen of ballroom tango it has such an unnatural posture and seems to require a fixed smile.....