Vasovagal Syndrome

[Larinda McRaven]

Anyone ever heard of vasovagal syncope (http://www.answers.com/topic/vasovagal-syncope?cat=health)? I had a fainting spell last night with complete loss of control over my senses.

I was watching a video called Fire the Grid (another story altogether) and I got a little wierd feeling. Actually I got really wierd. I lost complete control of thought and speech, loud ringing in my ears. My friend came and sat beside me, asked if I was okay, and I couldn't really answer. After a moment or so I said I wanted to go to the bathroom. I dragged myself down the hall and then woke up on his bathroom floor with him holding me. My cheek was hurting so I realized I must have fainted and hit the floor (nice black and blue today).

Talking to another friend today she told me the term Vasovagal. After looking it up I can now think back to 7 incidents in my life when I have blacked out due to witnessing bloody and death-filled situations. Mostly they happened when I was a teen and early in my twenties. Only twice now has this happened as an adult.

I wonder why I never put it together that bloody noses, big needles in my vein or shoulder, people dying on tv... etc... trigger such an intense response in me.

Last night, and once when I was 21, was really really bad. My whole sensory system just shut down. Thoughts were not coherent, vision was coming and going... really really wierd. The other times I just felt really sick and dizzy. But last night was awful.

Anyone every go through this?

[danceronice]

Yikes. I've heard of it, but never known anyone who suffered from it. Closest I've come is severe bradycardia from anaemia due to uncontrolled ITP--when I hit the point where I had to be hospitalized, I was just standing in line at the grocery store, and then I couldn't quite explain to the girl at the checkout that I didn't feel well, I asked for water (for no reason I can think of in retrospect, plus I knew where the water fountain in the store was anyway), and the next thing I knew I keeled over. Since then, especially if I'm really tired and/or my diet's out of whack, I'll have spells of dizziness and sometimes vision issues--you saw me at the party one time. Nothing as severe as the first time, but it's still a weird feeling.

You might want, just in case, to talk to a doctor and have them do a CBC (Complete Blood Count) just to make sure there isn't anything contributing to the problem. Of course if needles trigger the reaction, that might not help--but if you fainted there, well, at least the doctor would see it....

[SPratt74]

Please go to your doctor and report what you have been going through. Whatever it is whether it would be Vasovagal or not should be reported, and let them know exactly what has happened to you in the past. You just can never be to sure about what your symptoms are affecting until you have your doctor check them all out. And it could be something more than what you know as well. If it's something that makes you feel this way, then please report it. You could have this mistaken for something that might be more serious... or it may not be serious. But please have your doctor check it out.

[Larinda McRaven]

One time was while I was giving blood in highschool, in front of the RN Another was after I got a cortizone shot right into my shoulder socket right in front of my PC. Everyone just said "yeah, that happens to thin women with normally low blood pressure, when they see blood and needles. I went to the Neurologist after the episode when I was 21. He said it was a drop in blood pressure due to severe stress and probably a tightening of my muscles, further restricting blood flow. Nothing to worry about. I was just shocked tonight to actually learn that it has a name and wonder why no one told me that back then.

[anp73ga31]

I work with a girl whose entire family has something similar to this...can't remember if its blood and gore in particular....seems to be different things for them. For some of them, an extremely stressful situation...for others, going to the doctor or getting some procedure done(speaking of which, my dad's blood pressure goes up so much even when he goes to give blood that they have to take him in quickly to do it or else they can't use him at all)....now that I'm thinking about it, seeing certain things such as blood and gore among other things were triggers with some of them if I am remembering correctly(sorry, my brain is slow tonight). Not much that can be done about it, I think. Good to always get it checked out though. And my sister had a weird incident recently where she was just suddenly felt bad and took a step to go to the bathroom and keeled right over. We delved into her evening happenings for clues as to what had happened but found nothing. Could only figure in the end that it was related to her chronic fatigue syndrome (she gets crazy sick if she doesnt get enough sleep, etc. I swear her body runs on sleep, not food. I wish mine was that way!)...I told her in the future to just simply drop indian-style into a sit if she ever feels that feeling again so that she doesnt hit her head(luckily no concussion this time though she fell on a really hard surface and it was the side of her head).

The body does some weird things sometimes, doesnt it?

[Larinda McRaven]

Yeah, it seems to be a gore trigger for me. The funny thing is I LOVE horror movies. But last night and the really bad episode when I was 21 were incidents watching shows that were about real death situations. Others were my own bloody nose, giving blood, and getting an excruciating injection with a HUGE needle.

[Shooshoo]

Take care of yourself Larinda. Horror movies are not worth it (I just hate them).

[latingal]

Yes I have heard of this syndrome, a member of my family has it. It has a different trigger than yours Larinda, but the only thing the doctors recommended for prevention was to keep well hydrated and keep the electrolyte levels up (by drinking a sports drink etc.) when you know you might encounter whatever the trigger is. And of course, if possible, to avoid the trigger.

[meow]

Whatever you think it is and what is definitely is could be two different things. I would strongly suggest you see your doctor. Once it is properly diagnosed then you will know what it is. You may be correct with what you think it is now, but until it is properly diagnosed you can't know for sure. Play it safe and get checked, even just for peace of mind.

[Chris Stratton]

If it happens again, the first thing to do is get your head down and your feet up. Whatever the cause (and yes that should be checked into) the immediate issue is probably shock, and shock you treat by using gravity to get blood back into your brain, staying warm, etc. Kneeling down, head between knees or better, lie on the floor and put feet up on the couch, even something minimal such as bending down to tie your shoe might make a difference early on. And as a general rule, with any actual serious injury you should assume shock will happen and treat for it.

[tangotime]

Caution to all-- when one starts giving ANY form of medical advice-- you are in a minefield .-- ( as my son the dr. reminds me ! ) go visit one as soon as poss .

[DWise1]

As my doctor explained it to me, the vasovagal is a cranial nerve that affects the heart. When it's stimulated, it causes blood pressure to drop, resulting in syncope (fainting).

I'm kind of surprised to hear others here connecting it to mental shock. In my case, it's abdominal. For one and a half decades at least, I'll pass out if I vomit. I even passed out once when I was suffered from severe gas; I thought I was going to throw up and had the bucket ready, but then I passed out and my wife described a long, long burp. I monitor how I feel throughout the day and worry about conditions leading up to an episode, though lately we found that my blood pressure medication was too strong and we cut it back a bit and I've been feeling a bit better of late. Though now that I'm living completely alone, getting sick terrifies me anymore, especially since the events of these past five years have wrecked havoc on my GI tract, which has its finger on my vasovagal's trigger.

But, yeah, do talk with your doctor about it to make sure that that's what you have and for advice on how to deal with it.

[White Chacha]

... and getting an excruciating injection with a HUGE needle.

I had one of those in my hip. The wise orthopedist had me turned to face the wall. I don't tend to get faint at the site of minor blood but I can't stand the sight of needles. I always avert my gaze when I have blood taken for tests.

Take care Larinda!

[danceronice]

Caution to all-- when one starts giving ANY form of medical advice-- you are in a minefield .-- ( as my son the dr. reminds me ! ) go visit one as soon as poss .

Which is why, the best advice is always--see a doctor. (Says the hypocrite--the last doctor I saw was one of Larinda's students when she called him over to look at me after my dizzy spell at a studio party!) Even a doctor, when he's 99.999% sure he knows what's wrong with you, will usually eliminate that .001% just in case.

[fascination]

L---the Dr.s think I have this as well....our current president does as well btw......hence the famous pretzel eating incident ....ANHYHOW, in my case the incidents were prompted by a combination of the fact that I have a low resting heart rated and low blood sugar but tend to hyperventilate a bit when stressed and this causes a shift too quickly in the body where the heart or brain has to do something to re-regulate the person, hence the fainting which, unless you are standing on concrete, serves a useful purpose in retruning you to "normal"...there is a hospital test for this, much like a thallium stress test...it it called a tilt test.....they give you a drug that gets your heart racing then they tip you to see if you past out...not much fun and no guarantee that you will pass out and if you don't then you still won't know for sure...anyhow...that is my little saga...it doesn't happen much now that I have less stress...but it does happen...

[fascination]

and yes, I am no doctor and have no idea what your circumstance is...but I do know what mine is

[fascination]

One time was while I was giving blood in highschool, in front of the RN Another was after I got a cortizone shot right into my shoulder socket right in front of my PC. Everyone just said "yeah, that happens to thin women with normally low blood pressure, when they see blood and needles. I went to the Neurologist after the episode when I was 21. He said it was a drop in blood pressure due to severe stress and probably a tightening of my muscles, further restricting blood flow. Nothing to worry about. I was just shocked tonight to actually learn that it has a name and wonder why no one told me that back then.
yes, happens alot in the gym...and the current president is fit as well...

[Chris Stratton]

I'm kind of surprised to hear others here connecting it to mental shock.

Not mental shock but "shock" as a systemic issue where blood flow to the extremeties (unfortunatley somewhat including the head) is reduced. Usually in response to an injury, or the perceived risk of injury. Of course there are other things that could disrupt or limit blood flow too.

At any rate, whatever you want to call it and why ever it happened, the immediate issue is that the power supply to your brain - oxygenated blood - becomes insufficient for consciousness. Lowering your head relative to the rest of your body helps - either intentionally, or falling over often works too, but a bit less comfortably (ouch).

[quixotedlm]

it's fun to play amateur doctor :)

Larinda - hope you'll figure out for real what's going wrong and find good preventative strategies...

[SPratt74]

One time was while I was giving blood in highschool, in front of the RN Another was after I got a cortizone shot right into my shoulder socket right in front of my PC. Everyone just said "yeah, that happens to thin women with normally low blood pressure, when they see blood and needles. I went to the Neurologist after the episode when I was 21. He said it was a drop in blood pressure due to severe stress and probably a tightening of my muscles, further restricting blood flow. Nothing to worry about. I was just shocked tonight to actually learn that it has a name and wonder why no one told me that back then.

Somtimes (in my experiences) doctors just don't know what the names are. BUT if they are a good doctor, they will look into it and tell you exactly what it is. I've seen some doctors that will converse with other doctors to find out what is going on right in front of me even. Not that the others aren't good doctors. I'm not saying that. BUT in my experience, it's been better to find out if a doctor is willing to go the extra mile with you. And the medical field changes constantly. It wasn't the same 33 years ago (I'm 33 lol) as it is today. New information is coming out daily it seems. ;)

[liz]

I have been dealling with this too for about two years. Before then it had not ever happened. I had even thought of being an EMT.. First time was when my son broke his arm. I was holding it and when we went down the hall I just went out... Then about 3 months ago I had hurt my back practicing, had to travel home. The next morning I went to the bathroom started to get up felt like the blood was draining from my body. Sat down, then the next thing I knew I was on my face in the floor. Had a HUGE knot on my head, my mouth was bleeding and a knot on my chin. I don't know how long I had been there and couldn't get up... It was so scary.. I has happened about once a month since then... Could be something blood, doesn't have to be for me everytime. I worry that it will happen while driving.

[Larinda McRaven]

Here is a pic of my cheek... That was the next morning. Tonight it already seems lighter.

http://www.ballroom.to/images/cheek.jpg

[Larinda McRaven]

Liz, that is horrible. I have had a few of them happen when I was alone... it really sucks.

As for going to the bathroom, one of the triggers is thought to be bearing down when going, so I can see how that might happen.

So many in a short amount of time is pretty scary too. But at least you can get familiar enough with the feelings as they come on and get yourself horizontal as fast as possible.

[meow]

PLEASE, go to the doctor!

[liz]

That is what I have been doing.. When it hits I just lay down where ever I am. Happened in a practice session last time. By laying down, I didn't completely black out. I have started checking my blood sugar when it occurs. Not a big difference. The time that was the worse that I spoke of earlier, I had a concussion. THey did a CAT Scan. Also, I have been told that I am dehydrated when it happens. Let me see if I can get this picture to down load.

[Larinda McRaven]

Yeah, it is not really like a hypoglycemic reaction. The general malaise that accompanies that kinda sneaks up on you. The vasovagal reactions are much more sudden and overwhelming. I never would have attributed these to low blood sugar. But I can see where you might want to track your glucose levels just to be sure.

Everywhere I have read says being dehydrated seems to be one of the triggers. Perhaps I need more water before I go to bikram yoga tomorrow.

Ouch on the concusion, after seeing my picture my Mom was worried that I might have fractured my cheek. It is uglier than it feels.

[danceronice]

Isn't bikram done in something like 104-degree rooms? Uh, water. Yeah.

Liz, Larinda: doctors are your friends. (In other words, do as I say, not as I do.)

[Peaches]

Definitely try to keep track of your hydration. Several years ago I got a call in the middle of the night from friends, saying that DH had--very suddenly--gotten disoriented, loopy, and then practically blacked out. The reason he didn't actually black out was because they'd gotten him lying down on the floor. A trip to the ER later, turns out to have been dehydration.

It may or may not be what either of you are dealing with--doesn't sound like it--but I can't imagine that being dehydrated helps the situation any. I'd never realized just how serious it could be, until that happened to my husband.

Just a vaguely-hi-jacked word of warning.

[fascination]

Yeah, it is not really like a hypoglycemic reaction. The general malaise that accompanies that kinda sneaks up on you. The vasovagal reactions are much more sudden and overwhelming. I never would have attributed these to low blood sugar. But I can see where you might want to track your glucose levels just to be sure.

Everywhere I have read says being dehydrated seems to be one of the triggers. Perhaps I need more water before I go to bikram yoga tomorrow.

Ouch on the concusion, after seeing my picture my Mom was worried that I might have fractured my cheek. It is uglier than it feels.yep, my last episode was at disney...and as soon as I had a drink and lowered my head i was fine...as for hypoglycemia...I think it can be either or ..OR....both/and

[Larinda McRaven]

Isn't bikram done in something like 104-degree rooms? Uh, water. Yeah.

Liz, Larinda: doctors are your friends. (In other words, do as I say, not as I do.)

Well I have seen doctors in the past. A nurse, my PC, and a trip to the Neurologist... and they all said the same thing, I think I can pretty much agree this is what it is. The funny thing to me was they never gave it a name. But they all explained it exactly as I read on the internet. And I even know when I go the doctors office and get a shot or have to take a blood sample that I have to do it lying down. I just was shocked that it can happen just from listening to a person recount her experience dying and coming back.

[fascination]

it is a fascinating story...am not all the way through it but ...wow...btw, nasty bruise...hope you are better now

[Merrylegs]

I'm seeing Larinda a little later today, I will make sure I get her a bottle of vitamins with iron and some creamy concealer to cover up the bruise.

Oh, and lunch is on me.

Yikes!

[SPratt74]

Well I have seen doctors in the past. A nurse, my PC, and a trip to the Neurologist... and they all said the same thing, I think I can pretty much agree this is what it is. The funny thing to me was they never gave it a name. But they all explained it exactly as I read on the internet. And I even know when I go the doctors office and get a shot or have to take a blood sample that I have to do it lying down. I just was shocked that it can happen just from listening to a person recount her experience dying and coming back.

Well, as long as you did go and see a doctor (even if it wasn't this time), then I'm happy to hear that. Some people won't go see a doctor much less a dentist and can end up with worse things because of that. But have you ever gotten a bruise like that before? If you haven't, maybe that should be reported? If anything, keep your picture, so that you can show them what happened if you decide to go in later to see a doctor at a later date. They might want to keep a copy to put in your file.

I'm glad that you are feeling better. ;)

[White Chacha]

Larinda was in good dancing order last night :-)

[quixotedlm]

Why not go to the doctor again? It might be worth the trip ....

[liz]

Can't figure out how to get the picture off of my blackjack to the computer, then how do you attach it to a post?

[danceronice]

Weird they would never tell you a name--I think I heard the term in biology (or possibly psych). I definitely remember the part about lying down fixing the problem. My experience with doctors is they generally give me way too many names for things that are wrong.

[liz]

just put a picture of when I fell out and messed up my face. Can't see it really good. It is in my picture album... I will delete it tomorrow..

[Angelo]

My experience with doctors is they generally give me way too many names for things that are wrong.


I once went to the doctor for a nagging pain in my knee. She ordered some X-rays and told me I had patellofemoral pain syndrome. After a few moments of awkward silence, I asked: "Dosen't that mean I have a pain in my knee?" "Well, yes" she said. She then proceeded to tell me she didn't know why my knee hurt since the X-rays showed no real abnormality, but gave me some exercises I could do. I haven't been to see a doctor since, and the pain in my knee went away without doing the exercises.

[bordertangoman]

The Vasovagal Syncope : isn't a good name for a movie?

starring Larinda McRaven as the Femme Fatale
Chris Stratton as (the evil) Dr Phibes

and I'll let the rest of you cast yourelves.

[Edie]

Hello Larinda,

This condition tends to run in families and has a huge range of severity. I have it and my mother, brother, one of my sisters, one of my nieces, and both of my daughters (to different degrees) are all "fainters".
I am fifty years old and I have found that for whatever reason I have many fewer incidents each year and I haven't fainted at all in about five years. When I was a child, teenager and in my early twenties I had incidents about six or seven times a year. Nobody in my family has any problem looking at gory or bloody things, as a matter of fact my mother was a nurse and never fainted as a response to anything at work, but we all tended to drop like flies at any physical experience that could be termed as "invasive" including dental work, blood work, gynecological exams (!), and sometimes innoculations. My niece and I both fainted the first time we had contact lenses inserted. Some of us, including my brother have fainted during descriptions of invasive procedures. My niece, one of my daughters and I all had the wonderful experience of passing out in school during sex education classes after having the sex act described. (First sexual experiences were quite interesting) I once passe out myself as a response to watching my daughter faint in a doctor's examining room. My brother seems to faint more as a response to pain but the girls in the family don't seem to react to pain that way. One of my daughters doesn't faint as much, but has epic nose-bleeds.
Most of the time the response is very, very sudden. I don't have a feeling of lightheadedness beforehand, it's just "Woosh!", I'm out and then I wake up a short time later (sixty to ninty seconds) very often having a very vivid dream, and usually drenched in sweat. It's disconcerting. Although, we have a lot of family jokes and laugh about it, it can be dangerous and is often embarrassing.

The classic response that you get is "oh, you didn't have breakfast, or you are dehydrated", and that may be a contributing factor, along with being a little "high strung", but this is mostly a physical condition having to do with blood pressure and your artery/vein structure.
The real danger involved is in hurting yourself during a fall. In a medical situation I always make sure that any nurse/doctor/technician that I'm dealing with knows the situation ahead of time so they won't be taken by surprise, but if you faint as a response to descriptions you can't really protect yourself all the time.
Years ago, when I was pregnant with my first child, I was at the hospital's child birth education class and I had this exchange with the nurse who was telling us the number of pelvic exams that would take place during labor and delivery, and I said "But I faint sometimes during pelvic exams and I faint with needles". She said, "Nobody faints during Labor - it just doesn't happen." That was my big fear, but she was right. I never fainted during labor and delivery.
As long as you talk to a doctor and rule out other causes you should be able to work around it. You're young and hopefully this will get better as you age. It doesn't seem like an extreme case if this is the first time that you are experiencing difficulties. I know that certain procedures that provoked instant blackout the first time I experienced them were not a problem at all after exposure - contact lenses and sex being prime examples!
Good luck - You're a beautiful dancer!

[Cal]

Let me suggest a possible reason why other physician's didn't give you a "name" for this condition before now: if they give you a "name" for it, then they really should put it in your medical chart. If it goes on your medical chart, then the risk is that, someday when you need to get new/updated medical insurance, the insurance company will look at the condition spelled out in your chart, decide that it's a pre-existing condition that carries the same risk as bubonic plague, and will refuse to give you medical insurance. Then, for the rest of your life you will have to declare that you have been refused medical insurance by an insurance carrier, and no other company will give you medical insurance either.
I'm certainly not suggesting that you ignore this health issue; but just be aware of future repercussions.

[SPratt74]

Let me suggest a possible reason why other physician's didn't give you a "name" for this condition before now: if they give you a "name" for it, then they really should put it in your medical chart. If it goes on your medical chart, then the risk is that, someday when you need to get new/updated medical insurance, the insurance company will look at the condition spelled out in your chart, decide that it's a pre-existing condition that carries the same risk as bubonic plague, and will refuse to give you medical insurance. Then, for the rest of your life you will have to declare that you have been refused medical insurance by an insurance carrier, and no other company will give you medical insurance either.
I'm certainly not suggesting that you ignore this health issue; but just be aware of future repercussions.

Well, I'm not sure about that. My condition is pre-existing. However, I am not refused medical insurance. Grant it that I have to pay a higher medical insurance because of it, which is why I really need medical insurance through my work. But I can still get insurance. Once upon a time, we struggled with insurance though. The only carrier that would carry me was Blue Cross. But now, I have no problems getting insurance. I feel lucky even though I do have to pay a higher price for my condition.

[fascination]

that may be true in your circumstance spratt, but it doesn't mean that it is the case in everyone else's...I have owrke din the medical field for a decade and am married to an attorney and I can tell you that Cal makes a very salient point

[SPratt74]

that may be true in your circumstance spratt, but it doesn't mean that it is the case in everyone else's...I have owrke din the medical field for a decade and am married to an attorney and I can tell you that Cal makes a very salient point

Yep and that's why I stated I wasn't sure about that. I just know what I went through, which wasn't exactly pleasant. And I know I'm lucky to have insurance at this point. I wonder if your pre-existing condition continues to affect you then maybe that's when the insurance companies start saying no. My pre-existing condition doesn't affect me (I mean it does, but only side affects really if that makes sense), and I've never had to use insurance since then on my condition even though one day I might have to. So, that could be why I'm covered. I don't know. But I'm grateful.

[fascination]

you won't know until you try to make a claim...and I wish you luck

[Peaches]

Cal does make a very good point, which never crossed my mind. Might be worth looking into your state's laws to see what they say about health insurance and pre-existing conditions. I know in MD, you can't be denied coverage through work-offered insurance for pre-existing conditions. My parents won't move out of the state (unless it's to another state with similar laws) for that reason.

[SPratt74]

you won't know until you try to make a claim...and I wish you luck

That's true. You are probably right that when it comes time to make a claim, if I ever need to, that something will probably go wrong. But whatever the case might be, it's going to be expensive no matter what the problem is. And I wouldn't be surprised the way the medical field works as it is to go through something like that. I've had it happen to extremely healthy friends that got sick later with better health insurance than what I have. Well, I'd rather have something than nothing at all.

[quixotedlm]

for health insurance, all you need to do to find out if a claim will be granted is to call them up and ask for pre-approval (or ask your doctor to do that). it doesn't mean that you have to use it, it just means the in the event of a claim within the approval amount (and before the pre-approval expires, usu. 1-2 months), the claim will be surely processed and paid out.

[danceronice]

Hm. I have a pre-existing condition that is incurable, unpredictable, and might require either a twenty-dollar perscription or a $12,000 hospital stay, with no telling which, and Blue Cross does not seem to care. They would cheerfully sell me more insurance, but I can't afford it and my boss is too cheap to get us covered.

Of course, I'm not sure you can be refused at least some coverage in Mass any more--at the very least wouldn't MassHealth have to cover you? (It's against the law to not have coverage here. I don't qualify for MassHealth, I don't get it from my job, so I have to buy it.)