One for the guys...

[Heather2007]

Ha, ha, ha. I received a call from a girlfriend yesterday reminding me of a good night of tango that I missed on Saturday. (Hey! I have a treasured bunch of non-tango'ing buddies I simply sometimes have to catch up with). Anyway, she then went onto describe in her email a woman who had never danced before, she was an absolute beginner but by the end of the class, and come the milonga, there were a queue of men making a beeline for her. Such was the presence that his "bleach-blond haired, mini-skirted Marilyn Monroe lookalike" was giving off one particularly advanced male dancer grabbed her and as my friend described, "had this poor woman doing bad voleos and ganchoes all over the place and many times the poor dear almost fell to the floor. But still the man did not quit".

[Yep, its times like this I prefer to people-watch rather than dance..ha, ha, ha].

I could only assume the poor girl wanted to just dance and not feel like a hopeless heap being gropped, grabbed and breathed on and have the audience transfixed by what I assume to be something akin to a drunk monkey attempting acrobats.

Why would anyone in their right minds subject this poor woman to such a display for the sake of what...3 x 3 minutes of what for chrissake...and yes, the culprits were those guys in the 40+ age bracket I am told. The girl, I understand, looked barely out of school. So what is going on here guys?

[bordertangoman]

lust :wink:

[Joe]

Honey, it's not rocket science.

It's not even brain surgery.

[Peaches]

*snort*

As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. She could have stopped it at any time, had she not been enjoying it.

[tangotime]

lust :wink:


thanks for my daily laugh out loud :D:D

[bordertangoman]

thanks for my daily laugh out loud :D:D

As someone with PhD in Clinical Psycholgy and Philosphy, and having written papers on Freud; Jung; Wittgenstein, Reich, Fromm; Fischemittbicyclism and others; my answer was reached after much deliberation, consideration of the facts presented, analysis, cogitation and meditation....

[pascal]

"had this poor woman doing bad voleos and ganchoes all over the place ".
So what is going on here guys?

If she's dressed in a way that will attract leaders they will assume that she's ready for them and skilled. If she can't dance then her Marylin Monroe look is a misleading message.

[Tanguera]

Pas de tout, Pascal... A woman can dress the way she likes to go to a milonga: the man who invites her should adapt his dance to her skills. That's why we dance a whole tanda together, expecially if we don't know each other: the first tango is "to check" the ability of the partner, the second one "to tune", the third one to enjoy the dance. ;)

[bordertangoman]

If she's dressed like Marylin Monroe one must expect a little
boo-boop-ee-doop!

Now if she came as Mae West or Lauren Baccall another matter altogether.

[calandra]

Ah, but isn’t it just like life – so many smart, funny women out there who will be trumped in an instant for a bit of stuff. I’ve seen this happen in classes too – you dance with the same people week after week and then the first time some new blood shows up teetering in her 5 inch Aldo pumps, all of the knights in shining armour come out to rescue her.

[Heather2007]

Oh la, la, Pascal...that's like saying, "she deserved it coz she wore it". Opening up a whole can of worms there I think. Trust me, you really don't want to go down that route.

Bordertangoman. Thank you. For if I, as a woman, were to have ended my posting - "methinks lust is afoot" then all heaps of the aforementioned worms would have come flying my way. Safe for a bloke to say it on paper and for us girls just to think it in head. Ha, ha, ha.

[Heather2007]

Peaches: there was absolutely no mention of her "not enjoying it" just mention of how many of the guys did. :uplaugh:

[Me]

I think it was despicable for the other dancers to sit back and watch it happen. The girl was new. To judge her by her pretty appearance was catty and wrong.

SOMEBODY should have stepped in. But, I guess the men were too busy standing in line, and women too busy making nasty remarks. Nice.

[Peaches]

Peaches: there was absolutely no mention of her "not enjoying it" just mention of how many of the guys did. :uplaugh:OK. Fair point, I misspoke.

My point is, without anyone stopping to ask her how she felt about it, no one necessarily knows that she was unhappy with the situation. It can be flattering to a newbie to have that kind of attention, and can be exciting to a newbie to "do" all kinds of fun and advanced things...never mind that they're not being done correctly, or that she doesn't know really what she's doing. My point (not to be confused with "she was asking for it," which is a whole other ball of wax), is that it was within her power to stop what was going on. If she did not stop it, presumably, on some level, she was getting something out of it.

Now, for how she was dressed. It is reasonable to expect that an attractive woman dressed attratively (or provacatively) is going to attract attention. That's just the way the world works. It DOES NOT mean that if men are inappropriate then she was "asking for it." I have never felt that, will never feel that, and you will NEVER hear me saying such a thing. If the men were being inappropriate, that is all on them. But you cannot fault them for the attention paid to her, so long as it's appropriate.

Regarding onlookers...if the men were being inappropriate, or if the girl in question truly looked as if she was unhappy, then, yes, another girl should have said something to her.

[fascination]

okay, I don't know a thing about AT...but let me say this...a mini skirt is a very comfortable thing in which to dance, particularly if it has built in shorts...regardless, it is cool and allows for movement.....as a blonde who wears them often, I regret to inform the male population that is has nothing to do with them....and to think otherwise is to make an assumption that isn't true in my case and may not be true in others

[dancin/dj]

As someone with PhD in Clinical Psycholgy and Philosphy, and having written papers on Freud; Jung; Wittgenstein, Reich, Fromm; Fischemittbicyclism and others; my answer was reached after much deliberation, consideration of the facts presented, analysis, cogitation and meditation....
haaaaaaaaaaaa lol

[dancin/dj]

Oh la, la, Pascal...that's like saying, "she deserved it coz she wore it". Opening up a whole can of worms there I think. Trust me, you really don't want to go down that route.

Bordertangoman. Thank you. For if I, as a woman, were to have ended my posting - "methinks lust is afoot" then all heaps of the aforementioned worms would have come flying my way. Safe for a bloke to say it on paper and for us girls just to think it in head. Ha, ha, ha.
hey i like the way you english say or write (me thinks) i wish would could say that here,but i would get correction from some english teacher here...lol

[Heather2007]

That was my very first "thread" and wow what a reaction. Brilliant. Thanks for the (differing) responses. Passionately angry as well as passionately funny.

And I'm sure the young lady in question will be back...the attention that she received no doubt gave her an incentive to return for her second class/milonga. It truly did not sound as if she was discomforted/intimated by all that attention she received and no doubt the wives and girlfriends smiled a tongue in cheek smile at the display of middle-aged boys falling over themselves at being presented with their latest gadget - presumably telling some of them so in the car drive home afterwards.

[samina]

As someone with PhD in Clinical Psycholgy and Philosphy, and having written papers on Freud; Jung; Wittgenstein, Reich, Fromm; Fischemittbicyclism and others; my answer was reached after much deliberation, consideration of the facts presented, analysis, cogitation and meditation....

:uplaugh:

[bordertangoman]

This reminds me of the time when I was trying to demonstrate to a certain, young attractive AT novice ( female) that ganchos worked better with a relaxed leg and I was trying to lift her lower leg to get it to relax
and she said" What do you think I am a horse?"
quick as a flash a reply sprung into my mind: " then don't dance like one"
I bit my tongue and have regretted it ever since.

[Ampster]

My take is this:

The Lead: There will always be leaders who are dorks. These are the ones who gravitate towards prettier follows [actualy, nothing inherently wrong with that], but who feel a tad "larger" if they are "teaching." I view that as a bit opportunistic on his part. That stunt you described just shows that he's not as "advanced" as is perceived to be. On the contrary, he's probably a beginner who thinks he's a bit more advanced, and tries to teach newbies to show his "expertise.".

IMHO, I would also dance with her [for exactly the same reason]. But, as a responsible lead, I would match her abilities and dance to her level. Make her look beautiful in the process, and make her feel what it is to dance a tango. A Tango after all, can be simple, elegant, and just as enthraling.

The Follow: As she was new, I'm guessing that she was just going along with it, for lack of knowing any better. If she felt any discomfort and awkwardness she can do the "Thank you. Thank you, very much" maneuver, which would have instantly put a stop to dancing with that individual and shut him down. But, being new, she needs to learn this.

[quixotedlm]

I know nothing about AT. I just feel like chiming in :) I might also be inviting some flames, so I'd preface that I'm just putting forth a point of view that I don't entirely agree with, but here it goes anyway :)

How you dress + the social context says something about what you are doing there.

If you dress like a diva and can't dance too well, then it's a natural assumption that you are there to attract men. So men feel free to be attracted and offer her what they have - dancing. So they turn into peacocks and go a bit overboard... but it was in response to a certain implicit invitation.

Now it is entirely possible that she did not know that how you dress kinda sorta depends on your position in the dance pecking order of skills, and she was out of place and was inviting men to hit on her. But if she is grown up enough to go to a milonga on her own, I suppose she is grown up enough to be expected to know this or be able to deal with it. I'm sure next time around, she'll dress and comport differently, more commensurate with her skills - i.e., if her goal was dancing. If she was there to meet sexy men who can tango, she's getting what she wanted, which is fine too.

[noobster]

Now it is entirely possible that she did not know that how you dress kinda sorta depends on your position in the dance pecking order of skills
It's more than possible, it's the most probable scenario.

Someone who is not a regular social dancer would have no idea this kind of etiquette existed. When you go out to a regular club, you are expected to wear nice clothing and generally make yourself look as attractive as possible. How in the world would you ever suspect that looking nice is supposed to be something reserved for advanced dancers in the social dance world?

I haven't been to enough social tango to judge yet, but really I haven't noticed that wardrobe correlates with dancing ability in any way in the salsa world either. Maybe it is 'supposed' to be that way but in reality there are lots of rank beginners in sparkly dresses and lots of superstar salseras in ratty jeans or gym clothes.

[jennyisdancing]

I know nothing about AT. I just feel like chiming in :) I might also be inviting some flames, so I'd preface that I'm just putting forth a point of view that I don't entirely agree with, but here it goes anyway :)

How you dress + the social context says something about what you are doing there.

If you dress like a diva and can't dance too well, then it's a natural assumption that you are there to attract men. So men feel free to be attracted and offer her what they have - dancing. So they turn into peacocks and go a bit overboard... but it was in response to a certain implicit invitation.

Now it is entirely possible that she did not know that how you dress kinda sorta depends on your position in the dance pecking order of skills, and she was out of place and was inviting men to hit on her. But if she is grown up enough to go to a milonga on her own, I suppose she is grown up enough to be expected to know this or be able to deal with it. I'm sure next time around, she'll dress and comport differently, more commensurate with her skills - i.e., if her goal was dancing. If she was there to meet sexy men who can tango, she's getting what she wanted, which is fine too.

Quix, I'm new to tango, too, so I don't quite get the idea of dressing according to the 'dance pecking order'. Huh? I like to dress up and feel that I look pretty, as well as making sure the outfit is comfortable to dance in, and is appropriate for the venue's dress code.

Do you mean to say that the sexy, glamourous, or exciting outfits are only for the advanced dancers? Is there some sort of unwritten rule about this? If so, that's just silly. My tango teacher only told me that the women dress up and look nice at milongas, he never mentioned anything about a pecking order with it. Personally, I wouldn't wear a miniskirt to a milonga, it doesn't seem like the best thing for comfortable dancing, but if someone else wants to, that's their choice.

Women simply enjoy looking good, feeling good, and yes, getting male attention as well. Nothing wrong with that. I see no reason anyone would assume a woman's dance ability based on her outfit. They can obviously tell her ability the minute she steps on the floor. By the same token, I wouldn't judge a man's dance ability based on him wearing a more expensive suit or fancy shoes.

[Ampster]

...sexy, glamourous, or exciting outfits are only for the advanced dancers? Is there some sort of unwritten rule about this? If so, that's just silly. My tango teacher only told me that the women dress up and look nice at milongas, he never mentioned anything about a pecking order with it.

Women simply enjoy looking good, feeling good, and yes, getting male attention as well. Nothing wrong with that. I see no reason anyone would assume a woman's dance ability based on her outfit. They can obviously tell her ability the minute she steps on the floor. By the same token, I wouldn't judge a man's dance ability based on him wearing a more expensive suit or fancy shoes.

There is nothing wrong about looking nice. On the contrary, Tangueras are some of the most elegant women I have seen and had the pleasure to dance with.

IMHO, the original issue was with an irresponsible lead.

[jennyisdancing]

IMHO, the original issue was with an irresponsible lead.

Yes, and because the woman was new to tango, she did not realize they were being irresponsible and didn't know how to tell them to stop. Normally, an attractive woman learns how to deal with unwanted attention. I have a feeling that, in another setting, she would have known exactly what to do. ;)

[fascination]

I know nothing about AT. I just feel like chiming in :) I might also be inviting some flames, so I'd preface that I'm just putting forth a point of view that I don't entirely agree with, but here it goes anyway :)

How you dress + the social context says something about what you are doing there.

If you dress like a diva and can't dance too well, then it's a natural assumption that you are there to attract men. So men feel free to be attracted and offer her what they have - dancing. So they turn into peacocks and go a bit overboard... but it was in response to a certain implicit invitation.

Now it is entirely possible that she did not know that how you dress kinda sorta depends on your position in the dance pecking order of skills, and she was out of place and was inviting men to hit on her. But if she is grown up enough to go to a milonga on her own, I suppose she is grown up enough to be expected to know this or be able to deal with it. I'm sure next time around, she'll dress and comport differently, more commensurate with her skills - i.e., if her goal was dancing. If she was there to meet sexy men who can tango, she's getting what she wanted, which is fine too.just b/c a woman is comfortable in a mini-skirt but can't dance well doesn't mean she was there to pick up guys....it is summer...it is hot...she's not neccessarily there for pick up purposes any more than a good dancer just b/c she is in a mini...and sure men can appreciate that, but they have no business inferring something from it...having said that, if she is an adult and she is getting attention she doesn't want, she is capable of discouraging it

[Me]

Heather2007,

I want to be sure I understand you:

1. This lady was completely new to any form of social dance, period.
2. This was her first milonga.
3. An experienced dancer flung her around the room into advanced movements that she executed poorly, if at all.
4. Everybody watched.
5. Now they're gossiping about how funny it was.

Tell me where that happened so I'll never go.

[quixotedlm]

just b/c a woman is comfortable in a mini-skirt but can't dance well doesn't mean she was there to pick up guys....it is summer...it is hot...she's not neccessarily there for pick up purposes any more than a good dancer just b/c she is in a mini...and sure men can appreciate that, but they have no business inferring something from it...having said that, if she is an adult and she is getting attention she doesn't want, she is capable of discouraging it

mm... miniskirt is ok. but if your miniskirt is all jazzed up, has a very eye catching color, you're wearing pretty make up and you are wearing a teasing top, either you can be a good dancer and we'll all act intimidated asking you to dance, or you can be a n00b and men will hit on you.. you don't have to like it - that's the way it has worked since the dawn of ages... :snake:

[fascination]

A)please do not say where this is
B) i note that the female in question was "barely out of school age" so I would appreciate it if there was no further assertion that she had every idea what she might be opening herself up to

[fascination]

mm... miniskirt is ok. but if your miniskirt is all jazzed up, has a very eye catching color, you're wearing pretty make up and you are wearing a teasing top, either you can be a good dancer and we'll all act intimidated asking you to dance, or you can be a n00b and men will hit on you.. you don't have to like it - that's the way it has worked since the dawn of ages... :snake:
young women often have no idea what neanderthals men can be....

[jennyisdancing]

Heather2007,

I want to be sure I understand you:

1. This lady was completely new to any form of social dance, period.
2. This was her first milonga.
3. An experienced dancer flung her around the room into advanced movements that she executed poorly, if at all.
4. Everybody watched.
5. Now they're gossiping about how funny it was.

Tell me where that happened so I'll never go.

Good points. I went back and re-read Heather's post. Like I said, in another venue, the lady probably would have known how to handle the gropy guys, even at her young age. But in this case she didn't, so I think it would have been nice if some of other ladies there had helped her out, instead of standing around. At least I assume they didn't help, from what Heather's post said.

I have been at several venues where I was new, and more than once, have met other ladies who gave me advice on how to handle difficult leaders. In fact, they went so far as to name and point out the guys I had to watch out for.

Heather's post didn't say whether the blonde came alone or with friends. If the lady had friends, then her friends did her no favors. If she came alone, then it sounds like the other ladies decided to be catty rather than help, and that's a shame.

[quixotedlm]

young women often have no idea what neanderthals men can be....

and young men have no idea how rigged and lopsided this whole game is.

we all live and learn :rolleyes:

[Steve Pastor]

As Quix writes, "I know nothing about AT. "
The clothes and pecking order comment is flat out wrong. Except... You can sometimes tell a beginning female by her shoes.
There is no how "you dress kinda sorta depends on your position in the dance pecking order of skills" in Argentine Tango.
Other than that. though, I agree with most of his original comments.

Women, accept responsiblity for your choice of clothing, and accept the fact that choices have consequences. Tell your daughters how things work, too. This will better enable them to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they think it should be.

[jennyisdancing]

Except... You can sometimes tell a beginning female by her shoes.

Oops...guess I shouldn't have bought my spiffy new Comme Il Faut's. :p


Women, accept responsibility for your choice of clothing, and accept the fact that choices have consequences. Tell your daughters how things work, too. This will better enable them to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they think it should be.

No disagreement here. If a woman dresses sexy, of course she'll get male attention. However, my point is that the woman in this case was probably not sure how to handle the attention in what was, to her, an unfamiliar setting., i.e. if she was in a normal club and a bunch of guys were lining up to grind with her, she probably would have known how to fend them off, if she wanted. In this case, the woman may have assumed it was perfectly normal in tango for the guys to lead her around badly in lots of crazy moves. She didn't know any different.

[Steve Pastor]

First this is a third hand account of what happened.
"one particularly advanced male dancer grabbed her and as my friend described, "had this poor woman doing bad voleos and ganchoes all over the place..."
So far, it doesn't sound too different than what I see frequently.
"the woman may have assumed it was perfectly normal in tango for the guys to lead her around badly in lots of crazy moves."
Ha, really, it's not normal?
"She didn't know any different."
And the other women didn't clue her in, because...?

PS Shoes by Comme Il Faut show either a commitment to learning tango, and at least enough time invested to learn what is appropriate, or simply an appreciation for, and a desire to wear, beautiful shoes.

PPS This Sunday, when dancing milonga, which I love to do, and approach with zeal, somewhere along the line (I have no idea what we were doing), my partner and I stumbled, or some darn thing, but we didn't fall over (rule #1 - don't let your partner fall over). We both laughed out loud as I said, "I guess I've got some work to do on that one."

[bordertangoman]

It sounds like he wasn't a gentleman, and she could have done with a chaperone, but for further comment I would need a picture of the young lady in question. :wink:

[samina]

This reminds me of the time when I was trying to demonstrate to a certain, young attractive AT novice ( female) that ganchos worked better with a relaxed leg and I was trying to lift her lower leg to get it to relax
and she said" What do you think I am a horse?"
quick as a flash a reply sprung into my mind: " then don't dance like one"
I bit my tongue and have regretted it ever since.

dear lord that's funny... what comes out before the personal edit can be so rich at times...

[samina]

i echo fasc's sentiments, plus the following from steve:


Women, accept responsiblity for your choice of clothing, and accept the fact that choices have consequences. Tell your daughters how things work, too. This will better enable them to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they think it should be.

interesting thread... lots personal issues creeping to the forefront for a bit of airing...:cool:

[kayak]

If a woman dresses sexy, of course she'll get male attention. However, my point is that the woman in this case was probably not sure how to handle the attention in what was, to her, an unfamiliar setting., i.e. if she was in a normal club and a bunch of guys were lining up to grind with her, she probably would have known how to fend them off, if she wanted.

Club dancing isn't any different. Women dress sexy for attention and guys lead their best freestyle or grind moves.

With all the boomers divorcing, there are unlimited men and women looking for a much younger partner. Guys just have an advantage in this area - hot cars and silly dance moves knock off 20 years :D

[desinel]

I do hope this whole experience wouldnt completely put her off tango, as it certainly would have done with me had I been treated in such a way...

I probably had many chances of getting myself involved into a similar situation as I too am a beginner (in practice), but probably am not any longer in theory-practice as I pursued my tango journey on my own (and even started a small tango club in Ethiopia when I was out there for 2 years) ending up teaching the tango that I barely knew then, or knew through clips, loads of dvds and online instructional lessons... when i was practicing tango almost daily and therefore had a chance to polish all my ganchos and boleos...

I only did 3 lessons so far, and all the time I have been complimented on my moves and steps both by my teachers as well as the gentlement I danced with... Despite this I do warn everyone in the very beginning that I am quite a begginer and the partners I dance with always respect that, though when they feel my confidence and ability to understand and follow their lead, they do attempt very complex figures that I myself have never come across...

I havent really had a chance to 'make' friends yet as I am not very frequent and can only make it once a month because of various other comitments, but for one reason or another I do find the female tango community not very friendly... I dont know why... perhaps it is because there are always more ladies than gentlemen and every additional lady is regarded as some sort of a threat... I am still quite curious to know why an elderly lady I met during my very first class told me that there 'are only few males around and if you havent got a partner you wont have a chance to learn or dance'... jealosy? strange...

I think it is always appreciated when newcomers are made feel welcome as it is often the very first impression that becomes so very decisive and plays such a profound impact on one's further involvement into any activities... It would be nice having gentlemen behaving in the appropriate manner from time to time too...

[Me]

It sounds like he wasn't a gentleman, and she could have done with a chaperone, but for further comment I would need a picture of the young lady in question. :wink:

You are so bad. :raisebro:

[quixotedlm]

With all the boomers divorcing, there are unlimited men and women looking for a much younger partner. Guys just have an advantage in this area - hot cars and silly dance moves knock off 20 years :D

Wow! Cool ;)

<Running to buy hot car so that I can be a pre-teenager soon ;) >

[Heather2007]

Ha, ha, ha...Yes, I can see how using a leg to demonstrate on her leg how a gancho should be executed would immediately feel as if she's in the starting line at Ascot. I tend to demontrate the "loose" leg (ganchos, volgados etc) in front of a wall. I have her stand half a metre away from the wall with feet together and hands placed on the support (i.e. a leaning stand up press-up position). I have her bend her elbows, leaning into the wall with weight supported on one foot only. Ask her if she now feels the lightness in the unsupported leg. Bending and straightening the arms will swing that leg bac and forth allowing it the heavy loose feeling. Taking the legs further back will challenge that swinger in further. When I feel she is confident in that feeling and then knows what is required of her, I re-demonstrate the movement. Tends to work second time round. I never assume when leading in a milonga that my follower will know every move that's rushing around my own mind. I take the first song to guage her level and lead accordingly. If I throw in a move that she doesnt get, I let it go and move on and never, ever, ever turn our little space now into a practica situation. I see this so often with guys when they suddenly stop on the floor and transport themselves into teacher mode. Don't do this guys. She'll know people will be watching and thus will feel awkward and self-concious. Only demonstrate if she asks, okay? And of course away from the milonga. I guess my advantage is that I am a woman, a follower as well as a lead and thus will be able verbalise exactly what it is the man wants and exactly what is the woman should be feeling.

[Joe]

It sounds like he wasn't a gentleman, and she could have done with a chaperone, but for further comment I would need a picture of the young lady in question. :wink:
Ditto.

[calandra]

so I think it would have been nice if some of other ladies there had helped her out, instead of standing around.


Even in my much younger days on the salsa circuit we knew enough to run to the ladies room to escape unwanted attention (bad breath, too sweaty, too close, etc.).

[bordertangoman]

Wow! Cool ;)

<Running to buy hot car so that I can be a pre-teenager soon ;) >

I rely on my copy of Harry Potter to convince women I'm juvenile, that is to say, young. ( at heart). Its cheaper than car!

[Joe]

If not lighter. ;)

[bordertangoman]

and better for the environment

[Heather2007]

Heather2007,

I want to be sure I understand you:

1. This lady was completely new to any form of social dance, period.
2. This was her first milonga.
3. An experienced dancer flung her around the room into advanced movements that she executed poorly, if at all.
4. Everybody watched.
5. Now they're gossiping about how funny it was.

Tell me where that happened so I'll never go.

_____________
Answers:

1. Whether the lady was a beginner to "any form of social dance" I do not know, I wasn't there and I suspect my friend didn't ask. She was in the beginner's class and yes, struggled through the int/adv afterwards.. (here I say: tut-tut to the teacher for allowing that).

2. Her first milonga? Ditto above.

3. Yes. (Remember: Dr Jekyll was a nice guy until....)

4. "Everybody watched"? I assume a fair bit, save for those outside having a fag break, visiting the toilet or hiding their heads in amused shame.

5. Everybody in all sorts of situation gossips about something that took place earlier that grabbed the attention of the masses, so yes, I suspect this took place but more at these űnter-beings than at the girl herself.

Milongas are very showy places. I go just to dance. Others (and I assume a great many) go to be seen dancing. And with the use of badly quoted Oscar Wilde - any attention is good attention. She'll be back.

[Heather2007]

Why, whenever I see an adult reading a copy of Harry Potter I have this strong desire to shout "Grow Up". :notworth: Or is it me? It's me isn't it? It's me! :(

[jennyisdancing]

Even in my much younger days on the salsa circuit we knew enough to run to the ladies room to escape unwanted attention (bad breath, too sweaty, too close, etc.).

Yes, but you see, in this case the unwanted attention was carefully disguised as dancing. The overly complicated and badly executed moves were the leaders' way of throwing the girl off the trail. It would have been too obvious if they just stood there and panted. :lol:

[bordertangoman]

Why, whenever I see an adult reading a copy of Harry Potter I have this strong desire to shout "Grow Up". :notworth: Or is it me? It's me isn't it? It's me! :(

Well H20 007, when I put the book down I grow up again; like a biblical equivalent of Polyjuice.

Though I can point out a lot of bad things that 'Grown-Ups' do

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things, well for most of the time."

I Corinthians (ch. XIII, v. 11)

[quixotedlm]

Why, whenever I see an adult reading a copy of Harry Potter I have this strong desire to shout "Grow Up". :notworth: Or is it me? It's me isn't it? It's me! :(

it's so you. must be the age ;)

[spectator]

Oh come on.
I always dress trashily and I do it because it is fun. And All girls like to look pretty. I don't dress up for men (I spit on them Hah!) I dress up for other girls and to amuse myself. If this has the secondary effect of allowing me a greater choice of leaders to dance with even better. I say: Well done Blondie mission accomplished! When you are a beginner badly lead ganchos and boleos are fun. So why not let her enjoy it?

And in my experience in Britain there is no such thing as "naivety" in teenage girls. Btw she might have looked 15 but could easily be a 25 year old playing the game.

[Heather2007]

Well H20 007, when I put the book down I grow up again; like a biblical equivalent of Polyjuice.

Though I can point out a lot of bad things that 'Grown-Ups' do

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things, well for most of the time."

I Corinthians (ch. XIII, v. 11)


"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, thought as a child, cried as a child for I was bulled by a child. When I became a woman, I see the child and think, hell the little bar stewards are worse than in my day, now they're stabbing, raping and shooting each other".

A stick and a broom with a whole lot of magic does not teach them the way of the world and the good manners of a Gentle Man...

I, Heather (mth..July..day: 26th = Pay Day)

[bordertangoman]

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, thought as a child, cried as a child for I was bulled by a child. When I became a woman, I see the child and think, hell the little bar stewards are worse than in my day, now they're stabbing, raping and shooting each other".

A stick and a broom with a whole lot of magic does not teach them the way of the world and the good manners of a Gentle Man...

I, Heather (mth..July..day: 26th = Pay Day)

Ah but you will may see parallells of 'nanny-statism' in the real world and the weakness of ' The Ministry of Magic' in HP which succumbs to the dark wizards.

Anyway its just escapism in an enjoyable form and since the readers of HP are most likely middle class they're hardly likely to be the ones doing stabbing raping and shooting.

[Heather2007]

Ah but you will may see parallells of 'nanny-statism' in the real world and the weakness of ' The Ministry of Magic' in HP which succumbs to the dark wizards.

Anyway its just escapism in an enjoyable form and since the readers of HP are most likely middle class they're hardly likely to be the ones doing stabbing raping and shooting.

Whoa there buster, that's kinda sweeping. A bit like the faux-pas'ing MP that stated (without a blush) how children from single parent homes were destined for a life of crime. Well, I've certainly read in the papers over the years of the public-school date rapes, one bunch of middle-class boys deciding to take their mate out on a daytrip and tortured him to death. Why? For kicks. Their defence? Drugs. And so, if most of these little middle class HP blighters don't end up stabbing, shooting or raping anyone, we can be safe in the knowledge they'll end up working in the Square Mile doing a bit of white-collar embezzling or worse, going into politics and planning their next bombing campaign..but hey, there's always Argentine Tango :-D

[bordertangoman]

Whoa there buster, that's kinda sweeping. A bit like the faux-pas'ing MP that stated (without a blush) how children from single parent homes were destined for a life of crime. Well, I've certainly read in the papers over the years of the public-school date rapes, one bunch of middle-class boys deciding to take their mate out on a daytrip and tortured him to death. Why? For kicks. Their defence? Drugs. And so, if most of these little middle class HP blighters don't end up stabbing, shooting or raping anyone, we can be safe in the knowledge they'll end up working in the Square Mile doing a bit of white-collar embezzling or worse, going into politics and planning their next bombing campaign..but hey, there's always Argentine Tango :-D

Well I can only say so much in a post. I happen to belive there are far more serious trends both in the world and in cinema. There's a film called Holiday or camp or something like that where, I am given to understand, there is a sadistic delight taken in a torturing backpackers.

Maybe I live too remotely from this kind of stuff to know the causes or who's doing it. I don't regard Public-school pupils as middle class and now you are mixing together what adults do and what children or teenagers do. The Square Mile thrives on a particularly aggressive culture. But still it would appear far less violent than the impression I get of the states. In HP there is snobbery and rivalry same as real life.

[calandra]

It sounds like he wasn't a gentleman, and she could have done with a chaperone, but for further comment I would need a picture of the young lady in question. :wink:

... and I suppose that in order to determine the full extent of the danger that the sweet young thing was (or wasn't) in, we really would need to see a picture of the gentleman in question.

[bordertangoman]

... and I suppose that in order to determine the full extent of the danger that the sweet young thing was (or wasn't) in, we really would need to see a picture of the gentleman in question.

I think we have concluded ( unless further eveidence proves otherwise) that he wasn't a gentleman but a photo would help the Tango Police with their enquiries. No doubt a Jekyll & Hyde character.

[Heather2007]

Well I can only say so much in a post. I happen to belive there are far more serious trends both in the world and in cinema. There's a film called Holiday or camp or something like that where, I am given to understand, there is a sadistic delight taken in a torturing backpackers.

Maybe I live too remotely from this kind of stuff to know the causes or who's doing it. I don't regard Public-school pupils as middle class and now you are mixing together what adults do and what children or teenagers do. The Square Mile thrives on a particularly aggressive culture. But still it would appear far less violent than the impression I get of the states. In HP there is snobbery and rivalry same as real life.
________________

Today - the word "Middle Class" is determined by the amount one earns/is worth/has stashed in the bank/choice of holiday etc. No longer is that title deternined by the way in which one's vowels are pronounced with the BBC plum. Mr and Mrs Gawdblimey from Sarf East London suddenly coming into a bit of money and now able to send little Johnny to Private School would be considered Middle Class and no longer Working Class. Public school is pricey, if you can afford it for your kids, then you are definitely bracketed as "middle/upper-class". Also, your earlier post wrongly insinuated that any child from the middle-class bracket would not be engaging in any of the aforementioned crimes. Ha, ha, ha...wanna bet. I live in a prettyesque part of Kent. Garden of England. Tres middle-upper class. (So far this year, two shootings, 3 rapes, lost count of the stabbings, majority of these committed by, yes, children).

But hey...let's talk Tango, not politics:raisebro:

[bordertangoman]

________________



But hey...let's talk Tango, not politics:raisebro:

More than its worth to argue with a legal secretary:wink:
so I agree.

"In my youth," said his father, "I took to the law,
And argued each case with my wife;
And the muscular strength, which it gave to my jaw,
Has lasted the rest of my life."

Old Father William, Lewis Carroll

[Heather2007]

"In my youth," said his father, "I took to the law,
And argued each case with my wife;
And the muscular strength, which it gave to my jaw,
Has lasted the rest of my life."

Old Father William, Lewis Carroll

Ha-ha-ha- :together: - fabulous poem/quote. Again, by one of our home-grown greats.


When London's call is too hard to bear
And it's message to sweet to share
We will meet and we shall dance beneath the moon and her glare

Old Heather2007, the Milongaschmilonguera