Cunbia and Salsa, what's the difference

[Vin]

I think we all know the difference between a Cumbia and a Salsa, when we hear it. What is the difference musically though. I was trying to explain it to someone and couldn't. I have asked some others and no one has been able to give me an answer they were satisfied with either.

[HothouseSalsero]

I don't think cumbia is in clave, is it?

[peachexploration]

I don't think cumbia is in clave, is it?

Right HS. Maybe, they're thinking more dance than music. When I explain it to others, I tell them: Although, you can do similar dance steps in Salsa and cumbia, the "music" is more Ranchera than Salsa. Right? Anyone else?

[Sagitta]

Salsa is more sensual then cumbia, or that's what I feel when hearing the two.

[brujo]

Cumbia, in the most part has 4 instruments only. Piano, Bass, Guitar and percussion. It doesn't have the brass section that dominates a lot of salsa. The piano section is mostly done with an accordion, to which the whole ranchera feel might come from.

I wouldn't necessarily call it less sensual. It is just music that is from a more relaxed culture, where people don't necessarily try to show off as much as the salseros. Just like many cuban songs have a distinctive sound of the tres, cumbias are dominated by accordions.

The cumbia dance taught to me by my mexican friends is more of a side to side step ( Like the pa' medio from casino rueda ). Usually I see it done as a step to one side twice and kick, or step once and kick. There is also spinning on the spot where the woman's legs come in between the man's and then he dances like that with her. It is a closer dance, more similar to bachata and merengue than salsa perhaps.

[Sagitta]

Relaxed works well for me!! So that is the accordian that I hear playing for cumbia? Good to know!!

[Vin]

Thanks for the great answers everybody,

[redhead]

Hmmm... I'm confused... I thought cumbia goes more round and round, not that much side to side, and it usually does have a kick after every 3 steps. I think cumbia beat is different, more defined, easier to follow, energetic, kinda' jumpy and more predictable. My friend who knows how to play salsa & cumbia says that you can take any old mariachi song and make it a cumbia, just add the beat. I thought I'd share what i know; HTH

[Sagitta]

Cumbia as rotational? When a cumbia song is played I observe that as the predominant pattern. And when salsa is danced I observe it being danced predominantly in a slot by those who learnt salsa first, and rotationally by those who came to salsa from cumbia.

[redhead]

You're right. And if it's a fast salsa, more people switch to cumbia style steps (at least at clubs I go to). I like it when leaders bring both styles together in one song. It's nice to know both. In-slot moves are more showy, what do you think?

[looyenyeo]

In brief, with respect to cumbia:

Cumbia has, in common with salsa, a four beat per bar, two bar per phrase pattern.

A typical conga pattern involves open tones on the high conga on the upbeats 1+, 2+, through to 8+; this steady stream of tones acts as the time keeper. Accents take the form of open tones on the low drum. The cumbia pattern I tend to use includes triplets in the phrase for a little bit of kick without overcooking the rhythm.

Bass tends to play on beats 1, 3, and 4 on both sides of the phrase.

Piano patterns tend to coincide with the whole beats, slotting in between the timekeeper tones.

A typical instrument found in cumbia is the metal guira (also found in merengues) – a metal cylinder with a grater-like surface which is scraped with a metal comb, playing pulse beats. No clave is implied (see later).

Assembled together, the cumbia has a the “rolling” feel of a slowly walking horse - more relaxed than that of a traditional reggae and that of the pachanga (which I tend to associate with a horse trot).

Early instrumentation did not feature much brass, but modern interpretations often do, such as “la canoa ranchaa” by Grupo Niche. Arguably one of the most famous cumbias is “la colegiala” which was used in a coffee advert, gaining international exposure.

Salsa-Cumbia hybrids do exist, which then have clave direction. The structure of salsa and cumbia is similar enough that it’s a simple matter for the conguero and bassist to switch patterns during a salsa montuno section, resulting in an identifiable cumbia sound.

Regards,
Loo

[pelao]

Cumbia is a colombian genre of music. Many other latin american countries, though, have borrowed these sounds to make their own form of cumbia (e.g. - argentina, mexico, el salvador, etc.)

Originally cumbia was an afro-indigenous [and/or] spanish influenced music (like virtually all tropical latin american music). Other traditional/folk colombian genres [which might also be similar in sound] are: vallenatos, tropicales, paseo, paseaito, merengue, bambuco, porro, charanga, merecumbe... and the list just goes on for a while.

Originally cumbias, much like other forms of traditional colombian folk music, instrument-wise, consisted of a tambora and/or tambor (african drum; later replaced by timbales and/or tom tom); a tambor (african; later replaced by congas); guacharaca (indigenous - bamboo stick to scrape - much like a guiro/guira; sometimes still used, but mostly people use guiras now - a dominican instrument similar in sound); and, some sort of melodic instrument, which actually varied a lot. Sometimes people would use guitars, or indigenous flute-like instruments (the accordian came later on). And of course, the bass box (a box with little metal prongs used to provide the bass lines; in those days, the bass guitar either didn't exist yet, or had not yet arrived to these parts of the world)

As for the clave. In almost any afro-influenced ryhthms, a clave can and/or is present in the feel of the music. But, its usually the rumba clave, due to the fact that this clave was the original african clave, upon which other claves would be based on eventually in the new world.

looyenyeo's description is actually very accurate of modern day cumbias.

[HothouseSalsero]

I tend to forget that there is more than one type of clave.

[salsachinita]

Ahhh...."La Colegiala".....one of my all time favourite songs :D !

When salsa first surfaced here in Melbourne, the heaviest influnence came from Colombia. All of us learnt Cumbia along side Salsa, and the two share enough similarities to be switched back & forth during one song, if the music calls for it.......

In terms of dance styles, Cumbia/Salsa with Colombian influences focus on footworks, with minimal arm styling. The frame usually requires a bit more resist (for the partners to 'push' against each other) than, say a Cuban Casino style where the arms have to be quite relaxed to allow for all the intricate turns.

The pattern, IMHO, is a bit more 'square' rather than 'circular' or 'slot'.

During one of our outdoor salsa gigs, I clearly remember two of my friends (one Colombian, the other Cuban) dancing side by side. Both girls were perfectly on beat, yet their interpretation of the same song couldn't be any more different :shock: !

The Colombiana seemed 'busier' while she taps/steps on every beat, the Cubana appeared so laid back in comparison, almost had a 'drawl' with her movements.

I love the cultrual diversity under the umbrella of salsa 8) !

[pelao]

there's actually a traditional dance that goes with cumbia. I remember my uncle, a long time ago when he was young, was in some sort of contest of traditional/folk dances. We still have the picture of him with the traditional dress and everything.

but the original dance that the africans and mestizos did were pretty much like a walkin/shuffle type of dance while moving their hips too and upper body (including arms). They would dance around the woman and take their hats off (if they had hats) and the woman would dance too while moving around her arms above her head and all.

Its hard to explain, you just have to see it to understand. Its got a really nice folk/traditional aspect to it.

[Suaveson]

Cumbia, in the most part has 4 instruments only. Piano, Bass, Guitar and percussion. It doesn't have the brass section that dominates a lot of salsa. The piano section is mostly done with an accordion, to which the whole ranchera feel might come from.

I wouldn't necessarily call it less sensual. It is just music that is from a more relaxed culture, where people don't necessarily try to show off as much as the salseros. Just like many cuban songs have a distinctive sound of the tres, cumbias are dominated by accordions.

The cumbia dance taught to me by my mexican friends is more of a side to side step ( Like the pa' medio from casino rueda ). Usually I see it done as a step to one side twice and kick, or step once and kick. There is also spinning on the spot where the woman's legs come in between the man's and then he dances like that with her. It is a closer dance, more similar to bachata and merengue than salsa perhaps.


Thats a pretty good description of cumbia, it varies in style but the rythm is slower than salsa. In my opinion the further north you travel in Central America like Mexico, Texas the more cumbia sounds like ranchera. Cumbia is very popular throughout Central and South America. I'll give you a list of some of my favorite cumbia groups and you if are able to listen to them you will see how the music varies from region to region.

Los Angeles Azules - (Mexico) Como te voy olvidar?
Los Askis - (Mexico) Cumbia Caliente
La Tropa Vallenato - (Colombia)
Anicento Molina - (Colombia) He has a very popular cumbia "La Cumbia Sampuesana"
Rafaga - (Argentina)
Los Chicos del Barrio - (Argentina - I think)
Los Pibes Chollos - (Chile)
Sonido La Changa - they have a very popular cumbia "Cumbia Morena"
Los Socios del ritmo - (Mexico)

Hope this helps some. :wink:

[mellody43]

I *love* Cumbia ... the music tends to be less complex in the percussion. The most distinctive thing I thought when I first heard it was that it sounds like the rhythm of riding a horse. ch-ch-CH (quick quic slow) ch-ch-CH. Perhaps only horse people can understand this though. ehhe.

The movement is much more circular than salsa. Less spinning, and most men don't do any of the cross-body lead type moves. Some lead throw in more salsa moves just for fun.

Listen to Celso Pina's "Cumbia sobre el Rio" and you will get a great idea of what a driving rhythm cumbia can have. Plus, you can hear the "ch-cha-CH" very clearly. This is sort of a bouncy, rap-infused cumbia.

Melissa

[Suaveson]

I *love* Cumbia ...



Listen to Celso Pina's "Cumbia sobre el Rio" and you will get a great idea of what a driving rhythm cumbia can have. Plus, you can hear the "ch-cha-CH" very clearly. This is sort of a bouncy, rap-infused cumbia.

Melissa

That one belongs in the list of all time greats! Sorry I plum forgot about that one.

Celso Pina has some good stuff.

[mellody43]

There are so many good ones, including slightly slower/melancholy ones, but I don't know the names! My DJ friend has burned me several CD's of his music but didn't provide liner notes so I'm clueless when I try to actually find the artists. Tis a pity!