Gua Pa Cha Rhythm in Cha Cha

[DanceMentor]

I really enjoy the feel of the gua pa cha rhythm in cha cha sometimes. For those who don't know, gua pa cha rhythm is dancing on "& 3" instead of "2 3". Therefore, you wait until after the 2 beat and syncopate on the "&".

I'm curious if anyone has had any luck leading or following this rhythm. If so, do you have any suggestions?

[SDsalsaguy]

My old rhythm partner and I had an element that used this timing to good effect. By adding a little more “punch” leading into the “3” it let as add emphasis to this beat.

[pygmalion]

I like the gua pa cha rhythm, but there are many others you can play with. How about a nice long hold and then dancing on and one? The thing is to play around with the available rhythms and then see what works.

I have a great coach! He lets me do what I want, within limits. Bottom line, is his "blind man" theory. Just don't let the other person in the partnership feel anything weird or different at the point of connection, then you can do whatever you want.
For example, with cha cha, I've played around with a bunch of rhythm combinations within a basic. The only rule is to keep the connection consistent. It works.

[msc]

I've only used guapacha on the time steps, although I often try to snap turns on the "a" rather than the "&." My favorite syncopation is, I'm not sure what it's exactly called, maybe the overturned cuban break? Basically, the posted leg (usually right for man, left for lady) remains in about the same place, and the couple goes from a very open New Yorker position back to facing on 2,3 and back to New Yorker again on 4, throw a chucaracha in while in the New Yorker position (4&1) then snap back to facing on 2. Basically you don't count the posted leg as a "step," so the weight transfer on the 2,3 for the man goes from the left foot in New Yorker to the left foot in facing, and vice versa for the lady. Fun, but sort of hard on the lead and follow.

[MissAlyssa]

I've never tried it, but I'm anxious to get to it!

[pygmalion]

It's really fun. Just put on a cha cha, keep the basic footwork in the same place, and try to move around the ands in every combination possible, but still end up back on the correct foot on the two of the second measure. There are lots of combinations that work.

When you get this down, try playing around with the timing withoug moving your feet at all. Just mark the beats with your ribcage, or your hips.

When you get done this, forget about getting back on the right foot by the two of the second measure...Stretch it out, and get back by the three or four. Or compress it, and get back by the one then hold.

Way fun, and totally liberating. Especially when you're in shine position, your feet really don't have to be with your partner at all, as long you maintain the necessary connections.

[pygmalion]

I've only used guapacha on the time steps, although I often try to snap turns on the "a" rather than the "&." My favorite syncopation is, I'm not sure what it's exactly called, maybe the overturned cuban break? Basically, the posted leg (usually right for man, left for lady) remains in about the same place, and the couple goes from a very open New Yorker position back to facing on 2,3 and back to New Yorker again on 4, throw a chucaracha in while in the New Yorker position (4&1) then snap back to facing on 2. Basically you don't count the posted leg as a "step," so the weight transfer on the 2,3 for the man goes from the left foot in New Yorker to the left foot in facing, and vice versa for the lady. Fun, but sort of hard on the lead and follow.

I'm not sure, msc, but this sounds like a pattern that was called syncopated crossovers in a syllabus I worked on once. If so, that is a tough move! To lead and follow. Actually, the only place I've done it is within a planned routine.

Question: How do you keep the move looking crisp? In my experience, especially the second New Yorker can get very sloppy rhythmically. Any ideas?

Jenn

[SDsalsaguy]

As best I can tell, what msc is talking about is a variation from a syncopated New Yorker (International style term = Crossover break in American style). Whereas a straight syncopation would involve identical breaks to 2&3&4&1, the version he’s describing replaces the second break with more of a hip grind motion across the 4&1 (but in NY/Crossover position).

As far as keeping a syncopated NYer tight, part of it is realizing that the move is not a progressive one but, rather, a checking action. Also, rather then conceptualizing it as rotational, try to think of it merely as a forward checking action -- just one that commences after the body rotates. Hope that helps.

[pygmalion]

Thanks, SD.

I will try to create a more"checked" feeling after the rotation. It's pretty fast, and hard to control, but I think your advice will help.

And I think you're right about the move not being syncopated cross-overs. I was having trouble visualizing where the chucaracha fit in.

Thanks.

Jenn

[msc]

Strong, strong use of the legs and feet. That's the only way to switch directions quickly. And in chacha, you've got to get to those lines and hold, so it's even faster than you think.

The syncopated New Yorker, or crossover break, I always thought that one was where you keep your feet fairly tight , break to one side, then turn 180 degrees, to the other, and back. This move is a little different, very much like a "Cuban break," same timing, except instead of turning 1/8, the feet turn 1/4, and ideally the body turns 3/8.

[SDsalsaguy]

Syncopated crossovers/NYers can be done either to one side or to alternating sides. The fact that they're syncopated is, after all, just a timing issue, not a directional one.

[pygmalion]

Yes.

That explains it. That's the feedback I'm always getting. I need to better use my legs, especially my supporting leg.

Thanks. Will go try and feedback.

Jenn

[SDsalsaguy]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but there's a thread in the Salsa forum which I thought might be of interest regarding straight-legged & flexed-legged leg action for Salsa/Rhythm/Latin (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=777).

[tangotime]

very funny how you younger guys " discover " something that we used to teach in A/ M back in the fifties and sixties-!!-- a good musical expression ( doesnt fit the garbage latin they generally play for intern. latin ) have just produced a c,d with authentic guajida stressing a lot of this rythm --

[PasoDancer]

What mean Cucaracha?

[tangotime]

cucuracha-- cockroach

[tangotime]

Oddity-- having taught mambo for multi yrs ( crossovers l and r ) most if not all p.ricans never dance to mans left !-- have worked with them for yrs -- the old school -- to which i belong-- could not get used to only one side -- took me a while to get out of the habit -- no one has a definitive answer -- but from my teaching experience -- my educated guess would be that the majority of latinos seldom ( the naturals ) dancing only basics do not want release the ladies r . hand -- when I have finally got them to a stage where hand changes are needed-- i always get the strangest looks and questions-- yet-- it never happens when I teach mambo-- the english-- who have essentially copied intern latin -- tend to dance many of those figures and even give them english ? names -- just food for thought