Foot Pain

[Dancebug]

My dance partner says QS hurts his feet most, especially steps like pendulum. I have no idea why such is the case, and I don’t understand what kind of foot pain he has, even though he tried to describe to me. Does anybody else have a similar problem? Is there anything my partner can do to ease the pain? We need to do something about this because QS has become the most avoided dance for us. (When we used to do Latin, he said Samba was the hardest on his feet.)

[samina]

his arches? am no QS expert, but i know from what i'm working on that sets QS apart from the other dances that it requires a kind of tighter spring in the foot, as in jive. if he practices developing that hopping control, maybe his feet will strengthen & adjust?

dunno... just putting an idea out there...

[Egoist]

"most"? Does that mean that all dances hurt his feet?

Does walking hurt his feet?

[Dancebug]

"most"? Does that mean that all dances hurt his feet?

Does walking hurt his feet?
I meant toward the end of long practice. Even my feet start to hurt after two to three hours of practice.

[WorksForShoes]

Standard disclaimers about my not being a physician, and how your partner should see a real one if pain persists....

However, I have had some luck warding off foot pain by wearing those Food Undeez (sp?) -- little slip ons that leave your toes free and come up just over the ball of the foot. They give a little extra padding to the ball of the foot, and a little support on the sides where my feet seem to hurt after a lot of dancing.

DH has also had success taping his feet in a similar place with athletic tape, as have I. But if you do this every day, it can get expensive. So my rec would be to try taping the painful spot, and if that helps and the spot coincides with where a Foot Undee or Dance Paw would cover, then try a pair of those.

[Ithink]

Well, first of all, I think if you practice for 2-3 hours, foot pain is pretty normal. I would be shocked if your feet didn't hurt after 2-3 hours of dancing!

Secondly, quickstep almost has to be the most painful for your feet due to the fact that they take the most pounding since you are actually coming off the floor and landing. Gravity is a bi&*h!

Finally, does he wear insoles or anything in his shoes? That might help with the pounding your feet endure during quickstep. Do his knees or ankles hurt too or just his feet? Is it the balls of his feet or some other part of the foot?

I find that in quickstep your ankles are what's supposed to be able to absorb most of the impact that comes with hopping... To strengthen ankles, he should try doing calf raises and try going up as high as possible to stretch them out and put as much weight on them as possible (taking the calves out of the equation as much as possible). One foot calf raises are even harder, so that could be the next step.

[skwiggy]

First of all, I think he should see a doctor to make sure he doesn't have stress fractures or anything. Continuing to dance can seriously aggravate such a condition.

When I had foot pain and I went to see an orthopedic doctor, I was told to examine every pair of shoes that I own. He was 100% convinced that it was being caused by some specific pair of shoes. The pain was in my arches, and was worst when I danced, but as it turned out it wasn't coming from my dance shoes.

I was told to think about how my feet felt before, during and after wearing every pair of shoes I own. It took me less than one week to identify the culprit pair. They went in the trash, and the pain disappeared almost immediately.

The pain returned a few years later. Without seeing a doctor, I gave some thought to my shoes again. Once again, once I identified the problem pair, I threw them in the trash and the pain was gone.

[White Chacha]

What the others said. Don't mess with foot pain. Open quickstep is very hard on the feet, especially if you aren't soft enough in the knees.

[icequeen]

Agree with previous posters that he should go see a physician. Ask to see a sports medicine specialist or foot & ankle orthopedist. Many GPs are not experienced in diagnosing specific foot problems (like stress fractures or tendinitis). Specialists can really be helpful in preventing further problems and suggesting therapies (like physical therapy, specific arch support, muscle/tendon stretches). In the meantime, it might be good to not aggravate the foot problems more, and RICE (rest, ice, compression, elevation) would help.

[Laura]

Yeah, don't ignore the pain, see a podiatrist, think about your shoes, think about your dance moves, and so on. If the pendulum is killing your partner's feet, take it out of the choreography.

A friend of mine developed mysterious pains in the foot that developed into neuroma (a benign fatty tumor of one of the nerves in the foot), and had to stop dancing for two months for it to heal -- as well as having physical therapy and cortisone shots.

[icequeen]

Yeah, don't ignore the pain, see a podiatrist, think about your shoes, think about your dance moves, and so on. If the pendulum is killing your partner's feet, take it out of the choreography.

A friend of mine developed mysterious pains in the foot that developed into neuroma (a benign fatty tumor of one of the nerves in the foot), and had to stop dancing for two months for it to heal -- as well as having physical therapy and cortisone shots.

This might be typical physician arrogance here, but I would warn against seeing podiastrists to begin with. Foot pain should be diagnosed by a specialist physician if possible, then referred to be treated (including to PT, podiatrist, etc). I'm a former gymnast who has a lot of trouble with foot and back pain now because of delayed treatment between ages 3-8, so I speak with experience from both the perspective of a patient and provider. =)

[Laura]

I'm confused, a podiatrist is a foot specialist physician, isn't it?

[icequeen]

I'm confused, a podiatrist is a foot specialist physician, isn't it?

No, a podiastrist is not a physician with an M.D. (i.e. has not gone to medical school). He/she obtains training specifically in care of feet/ankle, and is a DPM (doctor of podiatric medicine). This is very different from the MD orthopedist. There are specific MDs who specialize in foot/ankle surgery--they are orthopedic surgeons who have completed 4 years of medical school, 5-7 years of residency, and 2 years of fellowship. Sports medicine is another fellowship available for MDs. Other DF members might disagree, but I would trust my body to an MD specialist in orthopedic surgery or sports medicine over a podiastrist.

[samina]

huh... i did not know that, icequeen. i though podiatrists were MDs. interesting.

[White Chacha]

I think more and more that dancers should be seen by people with sports medecine experience, rather than regular GPs or internists.

[icequeen]

huh... i did not know that, icequeen. i though podiatrists were MDs. interesting.

Yep, I get that a lot. But we newly-minted MD grads have the debt and the fatigue from our many years of school to be defensive that there are some things that we are best suited to treat. =)

And I don't want to turn the discussion into who is qualified to treat what; suffice it to say that MDs are trained in treatment of the whole body, not just a general part, and are more likely to pick up not only a foot-specific problem but also if the problem may have other causes (i.e. calf pain radiating to feet, mineral deficiency, misuse or unbalanced use of muscles and tendons).

[Laura]

Ok, well, I was looking for the word that meant "foot specialist doctor" and I guess it's really orthopedist then.

Anyway, whatever it is, my point was don't macho through the pain -- get it looked at.

[mummsie]

Both my husband and I have foot problems when doing QS - it puts a lot of strain on the ****tarcil (sp). We have both found that wearing magnetic shoe inserts has helped us quite a bit. I have also had major problems with the fashar plantar(sp) area of my foot. Turned my ankle badly 2 years ago walking down some steps and I was off dancing for 2 months. It still plays up from time to time doing QS so for this reason we very seldom practice it anymore. Bad for us because it always lets us down in competitions. Lucky we specialise in New Vogue sequence dancing so its not a huge problem. Mummsie

[TUNes2o]

This might be typical physician arrogance here, but I would warn against seeing podiastrists to begin with. Foot pain should be diagnosed by a specialist physician if possible, then referred to be treated (including to PT, podiatrist, etc). I'm a former gymnast who has a lot of trouble with foot and back pain now because of delayed treatment between ages 3-8, so I speak with experience from both the perspective of a patient and provider. =)

Lets see, a Podiatrist has 4 years of college, 4 years of Podiatry school, where the first 2 years are general medical courses and the last two years specialize in medical and surgicsl treatment of the foot. Most do a one or two year residencies in a major mdical centers. They opertate in hospitals, they are officers in the military as podiatrists. Most proessional sport teams have podiatrists on staff. They see and treat feet exclusively. What specialist
physician sees as many feet in one day as a Podiatrist. Surly not the dermatologist , nor the GP, nor the Radiologist, Nor the Orthoipedic Specialist
etc.etc. Maybe you want to go to the Gymnast Physician and get her opinion. Ask her how many feet she treats a day. When's the last time your GP looked at your feet.

If your smart you will seek the opinion of a podiatrist and skip the Physician.

[White Chacha]

In the ideal situation, I'd want someone to make sure all these specialists are talking to eachother. I'm not just a foot, or a hip, or a whatever. "The foot bone's connected to the ankle bone, and the ankle bone's connected to the leg bone..." as the old song goes. I want someone to make sure the foot doctor talks to the leg doctor, to the hip doctor... That part of modern medecine doesn't seem to work so well.

[Joe]

What the others said. Don't mess with foot pain. Open quickstep is very hard on the feet, especially if you aren't soft enough in the knees.
Exactly. Start using your knees more than your feet/ankles.

[Joe]

There are specific MDs who specialize in foot/ankle surgery--they are orthopedic surgeons who have completed 4 years of medical school, 5-7 years of residency, and 2 years of fellowship.
Not every orthopedist will be a foot/ankle expert, though.

[skwiggy]

I like to go to an orthopedist who specializes in sports medicine. I have had positive experiences with specialists like this. One that I went to even had pictures of dancers all over the walls. That somehow made me feel like I was definitely in the right place. ;)

[FeetwithaBeat]

Here we go with the labels again Podiatrist vs Orthopedist vs GP vs Internist -- beginning to sound like the Amateur vs Professional debate. Following that line of thinking (the amateur vs pro debate) who cares what the "label" is as long as someone knows what a foot is and how it works, go to that person and forget labels, credentials, training etc.

[icequeen]

Here we go with the labels again Podiatrist vs Orthopedist vs GP vs Internist -- beginning to sound like the Amateur vs Professional debate. Following that line of thinking (the amateur vs pro debate) who cares what the "label" is as long as someone knows what a foot is and how it works, go to that person and forget labels, credentials, training etc.

OK, I knew I shouldn't have started this.... this will be my last post on this topic.

While I see how perhaps one can make the same analogy for amateur vs pro distinction, it's actually not exactly the same thing. Most patients are not aware of what treatments are the best for the conditions that they have--otherwise why go to the doctor? Credentials in medicine exist for a reason; they give patients an objective evaluation by a knowledgeable body (medical boards) about the qualifications of their doctor. Otherwise patients have no way of really evaluating whether the person treating them "knows their stuff".

Let's say you have chest pain, and suspect that you have a serious heart condition. Do you want the person treating to be capable and qualified? I assume so.... then how would you know if the person who wants to treat you is qualified? Hopefully you look to see whether they have the training and credentials to do so. You would probably want the person to be a physician, and ideally even to be a cardiologist. You would probably make sure that they are really certified to treat you, but otherwise it's hard to tell without actually being treated as to whether they are good or bad. It's not like dance, where good vs. bad dancing is more evident, so people are can be judged more on dancing and not just because they have the label of pro vs. am.

The other difference is that it's our health that we're talking about, and I would err on the side of caution and go to someone with specialized training and experience treating the condition at hand. For feet/spine/dance-related injuries, you just can't go wrong with an orthopedist or sports medicine physician, whereas the guesswork would be much greater (and the consequences quite grave) if you go to a podiatrist or GP.

Final disclaimer: I'm not training to be an orthopedist or sports medicine doc, so you know that I'm not writing this to boost my own practice. Just want to look out for my fellow dancers here. ;)

[Dancebug]

My partner is very weary of podiatrists since he had a bad experience with one. When I had a toe problem, he made sure that I did not see a podiatrist, but a podiatric surgeon. So if he seeks for a medical help, I think that he will seek for a sport medicine doctor. Until that time, I guess he should try what he can do himself, like what was suggested on this thread.

[Joe]

Let's say you have chest pain, and suspect that you have a serious heart condition. Do you want the person treating to be capable and qualified? I assume so.... then how would you know if the person who wants to treat you is qualified? Hopefully you look to see whether they have the training and credentials to do so. You would probably want the person to be a physician, and ideally even to be a cardiologist.
Yes, but as you just said, you could go to a physician/GP or to a cardiologist. How do you know the GP is going to have the expertise to deal with your issue if what he/she does most often isn't cardio?

[icequeen]

Yes, but as you just said, you could go to a physician/GP or to a cardiologist. How do you know the GP is going to have the expertise to deal with your issue if what he/she does most often isn't cardio?

Exactly! That's why the additional certification in cardiology is important. You could go to random guy down the street, or to the GP--you'd choose the GP because they have credentials certifying them to be qualified at least in medicine. Now you can choose between the GP or the cardiology--you'd choose the cardiologist because it's additional reassurance that they are experts in the field. The GP may well diagnose your problem, but the safest way is the specialist. Same way with foot/etc problems. My field is the equivalent of "GP", but trust me, if you were an athlete to whom your feet/back/legs/hips/etc really matter, you should choose a sports medicine doc over me. =)
(OK, this really will be my last post on this. Feel free to PM me--please no flames--if you want to discuss further.)

[rebeme]

Foot problems can be caused by an odd distribution of stresses in the foot. Some people tend to favor the inside or outside of their feet – some the toes or the heels (just look at the soles of an old pair of shoes!). A "foot doctor" can diagnose your walking pattern, tell you what’s wrong with your weight distribution, and may possibly prescribe orthodics (fancy dr scholls). Instead of going to a doctor, you can go to a special store for running shoes, comfort shoes, etc (Enselow in NY). They’ll examine your foot, have you walk on a plate, and walk about “normally”. This is a great and cheap way to get a diagnosis. You’d be surprised what you may learn!

[Standarddancer]

I just tried this product from footsmart.com and works quite well - it is a ball of Foot Gel cushion Pair which cushion between my feet and the court shoes; since the Stephanie ballroom shoes I'm wearing have very thin insoles, the ball of my feet hurt quite a bit after one hour practice; this thing provides support and cushion and really helpful; and it is quite thin so easily fit into any shoes.

747

[mamboqueen]

I love that website. The downside is once you order, you get about 50 emails from them a week. You just reminded me that I need a little one-on-one with my yoga toes!

[Standarddancer]

yap it is a great site! I think you can "unsubscribe" so you don't receive so many marketing emails from them:)

[cshorte]

I recently switched shoe brands and noticed that there really wasn't much padding on the bottom of the shoe, around the toe area (in comparison to the brand before). I have some pain after 3-4 hours of dancing and ordered foot undeez a few days ago. Will post again with results. :)

[dancerman]

I recently switched shoe brands and noticed that there really wasn't much padding on the bottom of the shoe, around the toe area (in comparison to the brand before). I have some pain after 3-4 hours of dancing and ordered foot undeez a few days ago. Will post again with results. :)

Anything that takes the pressure of the metatarsal nerve on the bottom of the foot should help some. That's why a lot of dance suppliers carry the metatarsal-cushion (eg Tacco pads). Esp. dancing in a 2-1/2 to 3" heel. Puts a lot of pressure on that nerve, so I am told.
I would be intersted how they work out so I can let people know fro the future..

[Standarddancer]

I also noticed Stephanie dance shoes have thinner soles (especially metatarsal area) than Supa or International; but Stephanie have roomier toe box which are more comfy than supa; so just trade offs.

[cshorte]

Anything that takes the pressure of the metatarsal nerve on the bottom of the foot should help some. That's why a lot of dance suppliers carry the metatarsal-cushion (eg Tacco pads). Esp. dancing in a 2-1/2 to 3" heel. Puts a lot of pressure on that nerve, so I am told.
I would be intersted how they work out so I can let people know fro the future..



Tacco pads? lol i looked at a few but didn't think they would stay inplace which is why i am going with the foot undeez, if they don't work ill proabbly try what grace is using

[dancerman]

Tacco pads? lol i looked at a few but didn't think they would stay inplace which is why i am going with the foot undeez, if they don't work ill proabbly try what grace is using

These Tacco cuhions, (made in Germany) are self adhesive on the back to keep them in place. I don't believe the adhesive is such that thy can't be removed. The ouside is leather, and has a golf ball (dimpled) surface, They are also concave to fill in the area where most needed. There may be a picture of them on our site. If not they should be on Showtime's. You may see them at some of the comps as well.
I have had people say one thing they like about Stephanie shoes (ladies) is the cushioning and padding, but that doesn't mean they aren't thinner than others.
Whatever works for you is all that matters. There is not a lot more interfering in dancing enjoyment than sore feet. Other than really bad dancing, that is.....
:doh:

[cshorte]

These Tacco cuhions, (made in Germany) are self adhesive on the back to keep them in place. I don't believe the adhesive is such that thy can't be removed. The ouside is leather, and has a golf ball (dimpled) surface, They are also concave to fill in the area where most needed. There may be a picture of them on our site. If not they should be on Showtime's. You may see them at some of the comps as well.
I have had people say one thing they like about Stephanie shoes (ladies) is the cushioning and padding, but that doesn't mean they aren't thinner than others.
Whatever works for you is all that matters. There is not a lot more interfering in dancing enjoyment than sore feet. Other than really bad dancing, that is.....
:doh:


haha very true, are you talking about these in particular?
ttleaddancewear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=31510

[dancerman]

haha very true, are you talking about these in particular?
ttleaddancewear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=31510

I really wasn't trying to steer you there, but yes that's it. I am just trying to help on the thread. there's a very fine line here.
Good luck!!!!

[cshorte]

I really wasn't trying to steer you there, but yes that's it. I am just trying to help on the thread. there's a very fine line here.
Good luck!!!!

it's cool, my feet are very important to me, how would i dance without them? :P ... plus im a lil bored at work today haha

[cshorte]

thx!

[dancerman]

thx!
You're welcome. Just got back to my computer. Been away since this afternoon.
I have seen some gel soles in supermarkets that only incorporate the ball area like the tacco pads, but I don't know how they work. You still want enough of a sensation that you feel the floor. At least I find it that way in men's shoes vs a street shoe.

[Some guy]

I used to have severe foot pain but only when I danced Standard. Turns out, I have fallen arches: a very painful condition that I only discovered when I started dancing standard. Latin shoes naturally maintain the arch better, so no pain there in Latin.

I got a pair of Orthotics that irradicated the problem. They are pricey but well worth it. They fit neatly inside men's standard shoes provided that the shoes aren't split-sole. They work much better than off-the-counter gel pads as there are so many points to a foot that need proper support and shape. Like others here stated, foot pain is not to be taken lightly and the sooner he gets it looked at, the better.

[pruthe]

I also use orthotics in my dance shoes. They do help with support of arch. I also removed existing inner sole of dance shoe before I put in orthotics. Reason I got orthotics was because I had plantar fasciitus condition for about 6 months. Condition finally went away, but still use orthotics in dance shoes. Also like to wear Birkenstock sandals during non-dance periods. They really helped to alleviate pain in feet during period with plantar fasciitus. They have a very good arch support and they just feel good on my feet, so I use them all the time.

Be careful if using inserts of any kind that make shoes too tight. Do not want to risk getting a neuroma in your feet because of too tight shoes.

[dancepro]

I have had a lot of trouble with me feet both when I competed and after I retired. I have used magnetic insoles for years, without them I can't rise to the ball of foot. I also have sever ankle problem without magnetic ankle chain I wouldn't be able to support on my right foot.

I do suggest that you go to a specialist that work with feet as the dominant field, but make sure the doctor is also working with either dancers or other athletes. Check out your local sport team doctors or ballet dance company. That is what I did when I had my problem.

Dancepro

[mamboqueen]

I also use orthotics in my dance shoes. They do help with support of arch. I also removed existing inner sole of dance shoe before I put in orthotics. Reason I got orthotics was because I had plantar fasciitus condition for about 6 months. Condition finally went away, but still use orthotics in dance shoes. Also like to wear Birkenstock sandals during non-dance periods. They really helped to alleviate pain in feet during period with plantar fasciitus. They have a very good arch support and they just feel good on my feet, so I use them all the time.

Be careful if using inserts of any kind that make shoes too tight. Do not want to risk getting a neuroma in your feet because of too tight shoes.

Interesting. I was thinking of getting orthotics for my shoes, but did you have to have them custom made for the shoe? How long do they last you? I'm just not sure how they'd make them for a skinny sandal.

[QPO]

Next to knees I think it is one of the most common complaint I hear from dancers is feet pain. If you practice for so many hours it would be good to give your feet a relaxing massage. If you are on your own and someone can't do it for you, I was told and it works...is get a square plastic bowl, big enough to put your feet flat into. cover the bottom of the bowl with marbles, fill up with warm water and epson salts or softener of some sort and then roll your feet over the marbles, works a treat :-)

[pruthe]

I also use orthotics in my dance shoes. They do help with support of arch. I also removed existing inner sole of dance shoe before I put in orthotics. Reason I got orthotics was because I had plantar fasciitus condition for about 6 months. Condition finally went away, but still use orthotics in dance shoes. Also like to wear Birkenstock sandals during non-dance periods. They really helped to alleviate pain in feet during period with plantar fasciitus. They have a very good arch support and they just feel good on my feet, so I use them all the time.

Be careful if using inserts of any kind that make shoes too tight. Do not want to risk getting a neuroma in your feet because of too tight shoes.

Interesting. I was thinking of getting orthotics for my shoes, but did you have to have them custom made for the shoe? How long do they last you? I'm just not sure how they'd make them for a skinny sandal.

The orthotics I purchased were custom sized to my feet. They had to make plaster cast of my feet and then send in to make orthotics. I ordered two different sized orthotics; a larger sized one for cross-training shoes and a smaller sized one for dance shoes. The smaller sized one could also be used in dress shoes. The hard shell part of orthotic holds back half of foot. The forward part is just a spongy material that can be cut to fit shoe. The foot doctor asked me to remove inner soles of both shoes before inserting orthotics. That way orthotic rests against flat inner part of shoe. I was a bit hesitant to remove glued inner sole of new dance shoes, but after inserting orthotic, everything fit well. There is a raised part on my orthotic and that is where the arch support is. It takes a while to get used to, but I did so in a week or two. I don't know how orthotics are designed for women's shoes. I assume they are similar to men's. I think I've seen some women with orthotics in their dance shoes. Maybe if you know some ladies with orthotics in their dance shoes, you could ask for advice. As far as Birkenstock sandals, I don't use my orthotics in them. They have their own arch support system and I think your foot conforms to soft inner sole over time. To me, these sandals are just as good as wearing my orthotics and would recommend wearing them during non-dance periods. I wear mine all the time, even when I go out. If purchase these sandals, make sure size is not too small. Don't want toes overlapping front of sandal.

Hope this helps.

pruthe

[cshorte]

i've been wearing orthotics as long as I can remember... i had extensive surgory on my back and for some reason the surgeon recommened orthotics...

anywho since my insurance pays for most of it i get a new pair often.

i went ask my orthonis if the inserts would fit in my ballroom shoe (and got a 20 min lecture on why ballroom dancing is bad for my feet lol then) he showed me some really thin ones but said they would probably break in a few weeks/months because they are not made for ballroom use... (they were a few milimeters thick, not the dress shoe but more for slippers is my best guess)

i was wondering if someone could give more info on the wear and tear?



---------------------
on another note i got the foot undeez, ordered an xxl since i wear size 12, 13 US. they feel a little tight but i'm sure they will stretch... fun for spinning in the kitchen :P

today i will test them out in my shoes after work :)

they really do look like underwear o.O!! kinda creepy when i look at my feet lol

[dancerman]

Interesting. I was thinking of getting orthotics for my shoes, but did you have to have them custom made for the shoe? How long do they last you? I'm just not sure how they'd make them for a skinny sandal.
MQ
Last year at the West Coast competition in Framingham (The Summer Hummer) there was a shoe vendor who is also a podiatrist. He was the only shoe vendor there.
I just Googled summer hummer. It is 8-22 to 8-24 (this weekend) at the Sheraton Framinham. You may want to check it out if you are able to get there.
He actually forms the orthodices right there. I am sure he can tell you if you're a candidate.

[mamboqueen]

MQ
Last year at the West Coast competition in Framingham (The Summer Hummer) there was a shoe vendor who is also a podiatrist. He was the only shoe vendor there.
I just Googled summer hummer. It is 8-22 to 8-24 (this weekend) at the Sheraton Framinham. You may want to check it out if you are able to get there.
He actually forms the orthodices right there. I am sure he can tell you if you're a candidate.

oooh! Thanks, DM. Summer Hummer is a comp?

[dancerman]

oooh! Thanks, DM. Summer Hummer is a comp?
Sorry, just got back. Had a lady trying on shoes (all of them).
Yes,
One of the larger WCS Comps in the country. Very strange name, very cool comp. I did some workshops there last year. Incredible venue if you like WCS. John Schimmels website (form Arlington) has a lot on it.

[White Chacha]

Next to knees I think it is one of the most common complaint I hear from dancers is feet pain. If you practice for so many hours it would be good to give your feet a relaxing massage. If you are on your own and someone can't do it for you, I was told and it works...is get a square plastic bowl, big enough to put your feet flat into. cover the bottom of the bowl with marbles, fill up with warm water and epson salts or softener of some sort and then roll your feet over the marbles, works a treat :-)

I hadn't heard of that technique but it sounds like it would feel interesting.

I use a tennis ball to help massage the bottom of my foot. I too went through a bout of plantar fasciitis. I don't feel like it ever went completely away, even after physical therapy. It's more like a management problem. I stretch all the time, and ice, to keep it from flaring up.

[and123]

My massage therapist, who is also trained in reflexology, recommended "scraping" the bottom of the foot on an edge (stair step, table, etc). I did this when I had time between events at the MIT comp a few months ago, and I really think it made a difference. In previous years, my feet hurt so much I thought I was gonna die :shock:.

[White Chacha]

Oh, an alternative to the Birkenstock shoes is footwear from a company called NAOT. They make both men's and ladies' sandals and closed shoes with a very comfy and supportive footbed. I wear those when I'm not wearing my walking shoes with orthotics.

[cshorte]

So I've wore the foot undeez for about 4 practices and they are great! :D

Comments:
i wear mens standard/smooth supadance 8000, in the toe box area there is no padding, just the bottom of a rough shoe/sole :P

when i put them on at first they felt too tight, but they eventually stretched to form to my feet after 1 practice

i usually practice 2-4 hours

My toes feel like they got a bit of exercise after the 1st and the 4th practice (now that i can use them more efficiently), but the feeling will go away as they get stronger. i think its mainly because i upped the amount of practice between my 3rd, 4th session

Pros:
there was nearly no swelling in my foot... i didn't even have to massage my feet before i went to bed. usually i do if i want to be able to walk around the next day with minimal soreness

I felt like I had more support as the pads hugged my ball of foot making it much easier to push off the floor.

you can wear them with socks, haha :)



Cons:
the only thing i don't like is that im afraid the material may rip eventually, since it is kinda like a stocking

Bottom Line:
my feet are worth the extra money in the event i do have to continue purchasing these :) i highly recommend foot undeez, they may seem uncomfortable at first but i hardly notice them when dancing.

Another Note: Don't put them on your feet and pull them all the way back, this will stretch the foot undeez and its not really going to help you much with support. also if they are too far back, u will feel a slight pinch when dancing or on your toes, kinda like when you leave floss wrapped around your finger too long :P

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=foot%20undeez&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=foot%20undeez&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)

[jacklyn]

You just reminded me that I need a little one-on-one with my yoga toes!

Do those things really work? They certainly caught my eye but I have a hard time believing ads I see in Us Weekly. :)

[latingal]

think I'm about to beat TC to the punch! Here is a thread that had a lot of information/opinions on yoga toes:

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=26506&highlight=yoga+toes

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Ouch... :razz:

[latingal]

Ouch... :razz:

*grin* by the way TC, you owe me some spam masubi some day....I think we've got some entitlement going on regarding these archive links now and somebody's got to pay for the extra time!!

[dancerman]

So I've wore the foot undeez for about 4 practices and they are great! :D

Comments:
i wear mens standard/smooth supadance 8000, in the toe box area there is no padding, just the bottom of a rough shoe/sole :P

when i put them on at first they felt too tight, but they eventually stretched to form to my feet after 1 practice

i usually practice 2-4 hours

My toes feel like they got a bit of exercise after the 1st and the 4th practice (now that i can use them more efficiently), but the feeling will go away as they get stronger. i think its mainly because i upped the amount of practice between my 3rd, 4th session

Pros:
there was nearly no swelling in my foot... i didn't even have to massage my feet before i went to bed. usually i do if i want to be able to walk around the next day with minimal soreness

I felt like I had more support as the pads hugged my ball of foot making it much easier to push off the floor.

you can wear them with socks, haha :)



Cons:
the only thing i don't like is that im afraid the material may rip eventually, since it is kinda like a stocking

Bottom Line:
my feet are worth the extra money in the event i do have to continue purchasing these :) i highly recommend foot undeez, they may seem uncomfortable at first but i hardly notice them when dancing.

Another Note: Don't put them on your feet and pull them all the way back, this will stretch the foot undeez and its not really going to help you much with support. also if they are too far back, u will feel a slight pinch when dancing or on your toes, kinda like when you leave floss wrapped around your finger too long :P

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=foot%20undeez&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
cshorte, Thanks for this awesome update.
8000 Supadance eh? I have a wide foot and 8000 is one of the few that Supadance makes in a wide. I was going to try a pair when I placed my last order but I hesitated. I have a few people that need wides. Now I will order them and try these foot undeez.
I appreciate your sharing, and you are right. If it costs some money to protect our feet we are worth it. After all how much do we spend to dance?

[reb]

My foot pain went away when I bought a larger size shoe :doh:

[skwiggy]

I just got custom sport orthodics made, picked them up on Monday. I've worn them for 2 workouts, so far they provide a lot of relief. Fingers crossed that these slow the bunion development and bursitis aggravation. Apparently many people also report that their back pain diminishes or disappears with proper orthodics. After suffering from chronic back pain for almost 17 years, wouldn't that be a treat!

[latingal]

good luck with that skwiggy!

[mamboqueen]

I just got custom sport orthodics made, picked them up on Monday. I've worn them for 2 workouts, so far they provide a lot of relief. Fingers crossed that these slow the bunion development and bursitis aggravation. Apparently many people also report that their back pain diminishes or disappears with proper orthodics. After suffering from chronic back pain for almost 17 years, wouldn't that be a treat!

good to know, Skwiggy, thank you for that info. Did you get them custom made for the court shoes or your sneakers?

[mamboqueen]

Do those things really work? They certainly caught my eye but I have a hard time believing ads I see in Us Weekly. :)

hard to say for me. I can only say that my toes get so squished in my dance shoes, that when they're not in the dance shoes, they're still in the same squished position. So using the yoga toes keeps them spaced apart and having their "own space" so to speak. I don't really have toe problems per se, but when I have the yoga toes on, it does feel good on the feet.

[skwiggy]

good to know, Skwiggy, thank you for that info. Did you get them custom made for the court shoes or your sneakers?

Sneakers. :)

[skwiggy]

good luck with that skwiggy!

Thanks!

[kathyt cupcake]

hard to say for me. I can only say that my toes get so squished in my dance shoes, that when they're not in the dance shoes, they're still in the same squished position. So using the yoga toes keeps them spaced apart and having their "own space" so to speak. I don't really have toe problems per se, but when I have the yoga toes on, it does feel good on the feet.

I also bought the yoga toes and I don't think they did much for me although I didn't formally experiment with them. They do stretch out my toes, but it doesn't change any of the foot problems I have with wearing 3" heels for >2hrs.

I have a moderately problematic bunion on my left foot; the mechanics creates a quarter sized callus on the bottom of my foot. My general doctor and the specialized foot & ankle MDs that I've seen have razored down the callus, and talked about corrective surgery without selling it very hard. They basically said it wasn't a big deal, and to call if I decided to do it. They did suggest trying the Insolia inserts, as described in this previous DF thread (for heels)
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=16157

[cshorte]

I just got custom sport orthodics made, picked them up on Monday. I've worn them for 2 workouts, so far they provide a lot of relief. Fingers crossed that these slow the bunion development and bursitis aggravation. Apparently many people also report that their back pain diminishes or disappears with proper orthodics. After suffering from chronic back pain for almost 17 years, wouldn't that be a treat!


Hey Skwiggy, do you have information as to how I can get some too? Do they take insurance? hehe:nope:

also can you a provide a pic of what they look like? (would like to see the difference between sport and regular orthodics.)

[cshorte]

I just tried this product from footsmart.com and works quite well - it is a ball of Foot Gel cushion Pair which cushion between my feet and the court shoes; since the Stephanie ballroom shoes I'm wearing have very thin insoles, the ball of my feet hurt quite a bit after one hour practice; this thing provides support and cushion and really helpful; and it is quite thin so easily fit into any shoes.

747


Questions for Standard Dancer:

If you don't mind I've got a few questions...

How big are these cushions?

Can I cut them if nessesary?

How comfy are these around your foot/toe? (I don't like wearing flip flops/foot thongs, so I am a little weary about this product)

If your tow box is biger than the cushions (for example mine since i have big feet) Can I expect the product to move/slide around the toe box?

Can I wear them with socks?

[White Chacha]

Hey Skwiggy, do you have information as to how I can get some too? Do they take insurance? hehe:nope:

also can you a provide a pic of what they look like? (would like to see the difference between sport and regular orthodics.)

I had custom orthotics made in the aftermath of my bout with plantar fasciitis. In my health plan, I have to see my primary care physician, get a referral to the orthopedics folks, who then actually diagnose issues like that. They suggested I try some off-the-shelf orthotic inserts and if I couldn't get a good fit, I could try having custom ones done. They gave me the name of someone who comes to the HMO facility weekly. The cost of the orthotics was about $200 (which I hear is average) and not covered by my health plan.

I wear them only in walking shoes and such. New Balance has a number of shoes specifically designed to be worn with orthotics. They have a removable foot bed. I usually wear something from that line.

I'm still fussing about trying to get something that will work propely in my dance shoes. I am a leader. Until then, I tend to limit my time in the dance shoes.

A rigorous stretching regime is also necessary to help prevent recurrence of foot pain. Find a good PT or sports medicine specialist to get you started in the right direction.

[cshorte]

cshorte, Thanks for this awesome update.
8000 Supadance eh? I have a wide foot and 8000 is one of the few that Supadance makes in a wide. I was going to try a pair when I placed my last order but I hesitated. I have a few people that need wides. Now I will order them and try these foot undeez.
I appreciate your sharing, and you are right. If it costs some money to protect our feet we are worth it. After all how much do we spend to dance?

I always go to competitions to buy shoes, theres usually more brands avaible and you get to try anything you want.

I recommend going out and trying them. I ordered the half patent, halt new buck shoe... (9001? I'm not sure don't have the catalog with me now)

They came in last night. Tried them on, and they were much bigger than the 8000 even though they were both the "same size" which is 10.5 for me...

The shoes felt a little lose to me, but yeah thats basically why I weary of doing that online stuff. I suggest giving a call to ask about shipping before you do anything ;)

Fortunatly they have taken care of shipping charges for me and I am sending them back to exchange.




Also on another note, you know those flex shoes?

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=24485&highlight=split+sole

The at the last competition the person selling shoes was enough to let me go off and walk around and try them on the practice floor. They are very nice, but when I was on my toes they don't form to my feet as well as the non-flex... There was a slight gap just behind the arch of my foot. Almost close to the heel. I gave them back and the seller did mention that most people with wide feet usually have a better chance/luck with them.

That was not something I was able to determine by just trying them on and taking a few steps on carpeted floor. (I am very grateful for that opportunity) So you may want to check em out. (I would not consider them for practice shoes though).

[skwiggy]

Got 'em from my podiatrist. I can give you his contact info if you're interested. I don't really know what the difference is between regular and sport, other than he said that the sport ones probably won't fit in any of my other shoes, and that much of the damage is probably being done in my sneakers even though my other shoes hurt more.

[skwiggy]

Oh yea, and my insurance didn't cover them, but some insurance will.

[cshorte]

I'm still fussing about trying to get something that will work propely in my dance shoes. I am a leader. Until then, I tend to limit my time in the dance shoes.

A rigorous stretching regime is also necessary to help prevent recurrence of foot pain. Find a good PT or sports medicine specialist to get you started in the right direction.

Thank you :) I asked swiggy since she happens to be in the same area. perhaps a question for PM - my bad :P

[cshorte]

Got 'em from my podiatrist. I can give you his contact info if you're interested. I don't really know what the difference is between regular and sport, other than he said that the sport ones probably won't fit in any of my other shoes, and that much of the damage is probably being done in my sneakers even though my other shoes hurt more.

Other shoes being... ballroom, or other sneakers? i feel that we do damage our feet more when just in regular sneakers... usually when dancing, we have out core's activated, andfoot work is a heel/toe for a reason (i gather from my minimal knowledge :P)

[skwiggy]

I saw my podiatrist again today for a check in on the orthotics. We agree they are helping. I'm experiencing less foot pain, redness and swelling overall.

We discussed the issue of finding similar support in my dance shoes, since I still feel pain during and after dancing. He showed me a method of foot wrapping he created to help a patient of his who is a modern dancer. I'm going to give that a shot and I'll let everyone know how it works out!

Incidentally, the tape he gave me to wrap my foot seems like it may be a good way to prevent the blisters I tend to get on the backs of my heels in my court shoes. Wouldn't that be a nice bonus!

[pruthe]

Is it not possible to put orthotics in ladies dance shoes? I know it works for men's dance shoes since I have them.

[skwiggy]

I'm sure it's possible. But I don't like to have a lot between my foot and floor so that I can feel the floor better. Personal preference I guess. Probably one that will ultimately cause more damage to my feet. :( Although the Podiatrist didn't even suggest orthotics for the dance shoes. He even suggested before I could finish saying it that it didn't seem practical to try orthotics in my dance shoes. Possibly because of his experience with dancers in the past?

[cshorte]

I'm sure it's possible. But I don't like to have a lot between my foot and floor so that I can feel the floor better. Personal preference I guess. Probably one that will ultimately cause more damage to my feet. :( Although the Podiatrist didn't even suggest orthotics for the dance shoes. He even suggested before I could finish saying it that it didn't seem practical to try orthotics in my dance shoes. Possibly because of his experience with dancers in the past?

mine says that at a max if i put thin orthodontics into my shoes that they will eventually break from stress with in 3-4 weeks if not less

(he also went on to tell me that ballroom is possibly the worse thing i could do to my feet... i gave him the whatever look :P)

plus i absolutely agree with you on that feeling the floor :)

[and123]

orthodontics into my shoes

:shock: ouch!

[jacklyn]

think I'm about to beat TC to the punch! Here is a thread that had a lot of information/opinions on yoga toes:

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=26506&highlight=yoga+toes

So I bought some yoga toes... And I freaking love them. They were a bit uncomfortable at first, but now I wear them every night, they're amazing and totally worth the money!

[Joe]

:shock: ouch!
Yeah, to straighten the crooked toes. ;)

[pruthe]

I think I can understand how putting an orthotic into a ladies dance shoe could cause some additional problems. With the higher heel and narrow foot area, I can see how an orthotic could possibly move or even break after continued usage. For the man's shoe, this is not as much a problem. The main advantage I see with the orthotic is the arch support. This really helps my feet during dance. Without it, my arches become very sore after a while. If an additional arch support could securely be put in ladies dance shoes, that might help. I did some Googling around on internet with keywords "ballroom dance shoes orthotic" and found a number of hits that discuss ladies orthotics. It appears there are some podiatrists that specialize in ladies dance shoes and also some manufacturers of ladies orthotics. It might take some looking around to find a solution, but it might be worth it.

[skwiggy]

The pain that I feel is generally not in the arch of my foot. It's in the bunion area. Although the taping that he showed me is designed to support the arch, preventing my feet from pronating in towards my bunions, theoretically relieving some of the pressure on them.

He gave me an article on the modern dancer he helped using this taping technique, and how she was on the brink of quitting dance because she couldn't stand the pain, and went on to be a professional dancer with the help of the taping. Obviously modern dancers can't use orthotics, since they dance bare foot. Certainly seems worth a shot.

[Kitty]

He gave me an article on the modern dancer he helped using this taping technique, and how she was on the brink of quitting dance because she couldn't stand the pain, and went on to be a professional dancer with the help of the taping. Obviously modern dancers can't use orthotics, since they dance bare foot. Certainly seems worth a shot.


can you post the article?

[pruthe]

When I first saw podiatrist about my plantar fasciitis problem, for a number of sessions, she taped my feet. It did feel good and provided good arch support. I got my orthotics a month later and my plantar problem eventually went away.

[skwiggy]

can you post the article?

....

[skwiggy]

I tried the taping last night. I definitely felt like I had a bit more support, and it didn't constrict my range of motion at all. It's a pain in the neck to do, but seems worth it.

[pruthe]

That sounds really good. Wishing you good luck with this approach and your continued dancing.

[Tigerlilly]

I had custom orthotics made in the aftermath of my bout with plantar fasciitis. In my health plan, I have to see my primary care physician, get a referral to the orthopedics folks, who then actually diagnose issues like that. They suggested I try some off-the-shelf orthotic inserts and if I couldn't get a good fit, I could try having custom ones done. They gave me the name of someone who comes to the HMO facility weekly. The cost of the orthotics was about $200 (which I hear is average) and not covered by my health plan.

I wear them only in walking shoes and such. New Balance has a number of shoes specifically designed to be worn with orthotics. They have a removable foot bed. I usually wear something from that line.

I'm still fussing about trying to get something that will work propely in my dance shoes. I am a leader. Until then, I tend to limit my time in the dance shoes.


Just wondering - have you tried Dr. Roth's Arch Band Supports? They're supposed to help with plantar fasciitis. My partner (who's a leader) uses them in his standard shoes (as well as in his sneakers), and they've made a huge difference for him in terms of relieving pain and allowing him to dance. They're different from inserts in that they wrap around the foot with an adjustable velcro band. (In other words, they hold the foot better.) They cost about $26 to $32, depending on whether you choose the version with the magnet in them or not. You can find them online by googling (we usually order them from discountdance). (Incidentally, Dr. Roth makes a number of foot products for dancers - mainly ballet and modern dancers, but I think quite a few of them would work for ballroom dancers as well.)

[Kitty]

I tried the taping last night. I definitely felt like I had a bit more support, and it didn't constrict my range of motion at all. It's a pain in the neck to do, but seems worth it.

pain in the neck is another chronic problem I have..


you will have to show me how you do the taping.. my foot pain has been a lot less lately thanks to the advice i got (from you actually) to vary the heel heights all the time. Now I have 3 different shoe models, with 2 different heel heights, and i switch between them every couple of days. but in some bad cases i'd still like to know what and how to tape..

[skwiggy]

pain in the neck is another chronic problem I have..


you will have to show me how you do the taping.. my foot pain has been a lot less lately thanks to the advice i got (from you actually) to vary the heel heights all the time. Now I have 3 different shoe models, with 2 different heel heights, and i switch between them every couple of days. but in some bad cases i'd still like to know what and how to tape..

So glad I was able to help. I'm happy to show you the taping.
Will you be at Fall Frolic? We're planning on going and I can show you then.

Neck pain is a whole different story. I have occasional acute neck pain when I tweak something oddly. Usually able to loosen it up in a week or so, and then no pain for months. It's pretty tough to dance when it's flaring up.

[Kitty]

So glad I was able to help. I'm happy to show you the taping.
Will you be at Fall Frolic? We're planning on going and I can show you then.

Neck pain is a whole different story. I have occasional acute neck pain when I tweak something oddly. Usually able to loosen it up in a week or so, and then no pain for months. It's pretty tough to dance when it's flaring up.

when is fall frolic?

[Standarddancer]

when is fall frolic?

NJ Dancesport class.

I'm actually interested in this taping technique too. Is that for relief the bunion pain?

[skwiggy]

That sounds really good. Wishing you good luck with this approach and your continued dancing.

Thanks! :cheers:

[skwiggy]

when is fall frolic?

Oct 12 - registration is open from NJ Dancesport Classic web site

[skwiggy]

NJ Dancesport class.

I'm actually interested in this taping technique too. Is that for relief the bunion pain?

Yes. He said there are many complicated taping methods and he showed me a very basic one. He said he can show me more complicated if I need more support, but to start simple.

For me, it is to prevent my natural pronation that rolls my ankles in and puts more pressure on the bunion area. But in general it seems like it just gives more support all over the foot including the sides and the arch, so it seems like it could help with all sorts of problems. There is also a heel taping that he didn't show me since I don't have heel pain.

Will you be at Fall Frolic? We can have a foot taping party. :)

[dance234]

my foot problem is numbness! i've heard this is a classic sign of nerve damage and fairly common, but i'm too scared to go get it checked out.

[Joe]

pain in the neck is another chronic problem I have..
Maybe you can try taping your neck! :D

[pruthe]

Where is your numbness? If it is in the toes, could be a sign of a neuroma, which is a nerve pinch between toes and the nerve has swelled. In any case, you should see doctor to find out what the problem is. Don't want a smaller problem to become a larger problem because of neglect.

[White Chacha]

Just wondering - have you tried Dr. Roth's Arch Band Supports? They're supposed to help with plantar fasciitis...

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll certainly check them out.

I practice on some very poor floors. I recently found a pair of dance sneakers which don't make me feel canted back behind my heel. Wearing those for practice seems to take some of the strain off my feet. I feel well supported in them.

[skwiggy]

my foot problem is numbness! i've heard this is a classic sign of nerve damage and fairly common, but i'm too scared to go get it checked out.

I experience numbness in my foot while I was battling sciatica. Turned out the problem had absolutely nothing to do with my feet.

[Standarddancer]

Will you be at Fall Frolic? We can have a foot taping party. :)

we'll mostly likely be there. yes let's have a foot taping party and skwiggy is the instructor!;)

[Standarddancer]

Maybe you can try taping your neck! :D

lol...this is taping method created by foot doctor:)

[skwiggy]

we'll mostly likely be there. yes let's have a foot taping party and skwiggy is the instructor!;)

The rolls of tape that I got from my podiatrist seem to stay in place better than anything I've ever found in the drug store. He charged me $5 total for the 2 different sized rolls I need to do the taping he showed me. If you guys want some of this tape let me know and I can pick up extra rolls from him before Fall Frolic.

[samina]

Maybe you can try taping your neck! :D

sometimes, man...i just love you. <<cracking up>>

[Standarddancer]

I also love Joe's sense of humor, cracking up:cool:

[Standarddancer]

The rolls of tape that I got from my podiatrist seem to stay in place better than anything I've ever found in the drug store. He charged me $5 total for the 2 different sized rolls I need to do the taping he showed me. If you guys want some of this tape let me know and I can pick up extra rolls from him before Fall Frolic.

I think I still have some tapes at home, those from my doctor when I twisted my ankle last year. well I got to remember to bring to fall frolic

[QPO]

Lots of my friends seem to suffer with foot pain, I get more knee issues and currently have some shoulder issues, but eeh, it is all part of the game, as long as you can rest in between and allow for recovery...which you know we don't do. ;-)