Rumba question

[precious12]

Hi, guys i have a question about the rumba, i have been working on a showcase and the rumba is one of my dances, but we are doing this one move, and one instructor told me to do it one way, and another told me to do it another way, so i going to try and describe the two moves, and maybe you guys can tell me which one is right. Okay here it goes: in the routine we do this spin and it is like and underarm turn but you spin around in a circle until the guys pulls you in and you walk toward him, but while doing the turn i have been told to do my feet two different ways, one is to just with every step i take the back foot spins out and so forth for every step the other way is when i take and step and then swivel inward and passed my other foot, and i can do both, but i just keep wondering which one of them is correct, and which is instructor is teaching me the right way to do this move. I hope i described it good enough, so you will know what i am talking about.:p

[waltzgirl]

American or International?

I'm not too clear on what you're describing. I don't know what spin around in a circle means. To me, a spin is a rotation in one spot (no travelling). What you're describing sounds kind of like an Am. rumba step where you walk in a big circle around the lead until he leads you to turn and face him and walk toward him. If that's the pattern you mean, it sounds to me like both options are different styling choices (though I'm not sure what spinning out the back foot is--maybe a ronde). As I've been taught this step, the basic way to do it is to do rumba walks as you move in the circle.

If it is a styling choice, then both are "correct."

But maybe I'm totally off here :) --I'm not a latin/rhythm specialist and I'm not sure what you're describing.

[fascination]

easy...do it the way the dude who you are doing the routine with says

[precious12]

HI, waltzgirl, it is how you described it, where the lead stays in place where i do a circle and then he pulls me toward him and i do the walk, and i do American, but my instructor was formerly International and i should do what he says. :D

[precious12]

Yea, the rumba walks is what i do in the circle, so is this correct if i do it this way, or is there another way?

[waltzgirl]

Well, I suppose there are all sorts of styling options you could use, but I agree with fasc, do it how the pro you are dancing with wants you to. The fact that another instructor taught you another way to style your feet shouldn't been an issue. As you get more dance experience, you'll discover that "correctness" has more to do with "how" you are using your feet, for example, than where you are placing them. (Unless your concern about this is a symptom of some doubts you're having overall about your instructor, then that's another question.)

[danceronice]

I've taken Rhythm from two different pros, and sometimes they teach the same steps different ways. Both ways are correct, it's just a style thing. What I do is what fasc and waltzgirl said--what the pro I'm dancing with at the time wants. I'm not sure what you're describing, but it does sound like just a matter of style. In any case, the correct way is the way your leader at the time wants it.

[contracheck]

Hi, guys i have a question about the rumba, i have been working on a showcase and the rumba is one of my dances, but we are doing this one move, and one instructor told me to do it one way, and another told me to do it another way, so i going to try and describe the two moves, and maybe you guys can tell me which one is right. Okay here it goes: in the routine we do this spin and it is like and underarm turn but you spin around in a circle until the guys pulls you in and you walk toward him, but while doing the turn i have been told to do my feet two different ways, one is to just with every step i take the back foot spins out and so forth for every step the other way is when i take and step and then swivel inward and passed my other foot, and i can do both, but i just keep wondering which one of them is correct, and which is instructor is teaching me the right way to do this move. I hope i described it good enough, so you will know what i am talking about.:p

It seems to me that both men are correct in Rumba Walk. Please allow me disect the Rumba Walk, assuming that we take the first Quick Step with the LF. Presently, your left foot is your back foot.

In the first first half of the LQ (i.e., "&" Step), you bend your L knee and bring LF next to the RF; at this time, your left knee is bent high and your left big toe touches the floor (i.e., LF is vertical to the floor).

In the initial brief moment in the above movement, you hips are horizontal and square (perpendicular) to the LOD, but you quickly twist your left hip (don't involve shoulders in this twist) clockwise and sink your right hip, so your left hip is higher than the right hip. This move makes LF look swiveling clockwise.

In the second half of the the first Q Step, you slide the left big toe forward on the floor, maintaining the verticality of the LF as much as possible, then slap the whole left foot on the floor without putting any weight and without using muscle, just slap the whole LF on the floor using only the bones. You gradually transfer your weight on the LF, while you rotate your back foot (i.e., the RF) outward (i.e., clockwise) (spins out??). This move generates the important characteristic hip rotation. This completes the first Quick Step. The Second Quick Step (RQ) and the following Slow (LS) are done in the same manner.

[tangotime]

Like the others , I am not sure exactly what you are dancing, but it sounds somewhat like travelling reverse ( left ) spins, danced in a circle ?

[cornutt]

I thought maybe the OP was describing a Cuban walk. But I've never heard of starting a Cuban walk with an underarm turn.

[Josh]

one is to just with every step i take the back foot spins out and so forth for every step the other way is when i take and step and then swivel inward and passed my other foot, and i can do both, but i just keep wondering which one of them is correct, and which is instructor is teaching me the right way to do this move. I hope i described it good enough, so you will know what i am talking about.:p

Sounds like you're a beginner rumba student, doing American rumba, and the figure (though it's for a show I realize, and probably done a bit differently) is some variation on Open Rumba Walks. Do I get the prize?? ;-)

I think I understand the first way you describe, but the second way is a little ambiguous.. "take and step and then swivel inward and passed my other foot"...? I don't understand.

At any rate, especially with a description that has others here confused as well, you would be best to listen to your teachers first and foremost, since none of us here really know what you mean, and can't see you dance. You'll have to trust them :-) And like others have said, go with the coach who will be dancing with you in the routine. And most importantly, HAVE FUN! :-)

[Adwiz]

Not sure if you're describing American-style Open Rumba Walks or International-style Alemanas, but I suspect the Alemana is what you mean.

There are two very different approaches to the Alemana, both taught by competent teachers. They sound like the distinctions you describe.

As a rule of thumb, it is more feminine and beautiful to collect your foot underneath by brushing one ankle past the other and then swivel your body to the side as you walk in a circle. The other way that is taught is to turn in the circle without the ankle brushing action, with your foot leading the turn. I don't think this looks nearly as pretty. The technique book doesn't give specifics, so this is open to interpretation but the latter is considered old fashioned and the former is much more up-to-date and stylish.

The same issue affects other steps where the technique books don't go into detail. For example, Giamperro and other teachers will insist that on a Double Reverse Spin you should begin by turning the foot slightly, while other teachers abhor that approach and insist there should never be even a hint of turn of the foot. It's one of those frustrating things about dance lessons when teaching is inconsistent due to personal preference.

[etp777]

I thought maybe the OP was describing a Cuban walk. But I've never heard of starting a Cuban walk with an underarm turn.

FA has three Cuban walks in their syllabus (one in social foundation, one as a bronze element, one as bronze 3). SF one at least has an underarm turn, bronze 3 doesn't, and I can't remember on bronze element. I kinda refused to really learn and remember bronze element one (was learning it after bronze 3). I decided two steps called cuban walks were enough, three was just ridiculous. :)

SF one uses an uat, where both dancers go under the arm actually, then into the cuban walk. Bronze 3 does a side press into the cuban walks (after some other stuff to start).

Not saying that's what she's talking about, just that at least one place teaches a cuban walk that starts with an UAT. :)

[tangotime]

. For example, Giamperro and other teachers will insist that on a Double Reverse Spin you should begin by turning the foot slightly, while other teachers abhor that approach and insist there should never be even a hint of turn of the foot. It's one of those frustrating things about dance lessons when teaching is inconsistent due to personal preference.

As Scrivener noted -- There can never be an exact technique .

All books detailed as technique books, are essentially guides , Yes, there are certain hard line facts,that should not be ignored, but variations on a "theme ", can and do, exist . I also believe, that if you modify a standard technique, it should be backed with sound theory .

[fascination]

that is consoling

[atk]

Cornutt,

In the AM syllabus, it's an open cuban walk. I believe it's a bronze 1 variation. Progressive swivels (what the precious12 is really asking about) are introduced in school figures at bronze 3 or bronze 4 (I can't remember which).



precious12,

The way you step is quite leadable, and therefore should eventually be followed, not just "done". It's not really a styling choice, like arm style is. It can even be mildly uncomfortable for the leader if you do it when it hasn't been lead (it can feel forced).

That said, do what the teacher who's working with you on the showcase is teaching you to do - he's probably leading you to do it (you could even ask him to identify what the lead feels like, compared to not doing swivels). With other people, do it how you feel them leading it.

Also, even if he isn't leading it, it's a routine. Rules are meant to be broken in a routine :)

[tangotime]

Cornutt,

).
Also, even if he isn't leading it, it's a routine. Rules are meant to be broken in a routine :)


I think " allowed " would be more appropriate .

[atk]

I think " allowed " would be more appropriate .


*grin* I think you're right :)

[contracheck]

Not sure if you're describing American-style Open Rumba Walks or International-style Alemanas, but I suspect the Alemana is what you mean.

More likely, an Alamena followed by a Rope Spin. I don't think there is any circling in Alamena but, in Rope Spin, the woman circle arpund the man. Rumba Walks in Am Rumba and Int Rumba are done done exactly in the same way as I described except that the Am Rumba walk is done with a bent leg whereas the Int Rumba Walk is done with a straight leg.

[atk]

Rumba Walks in Am Rumba and Int Rumba are done done exactly in the same way as I described except that the Am Rumba walk is done with a bent leg whereas the Int Rumba Walk is done with a straight leg.

That's true at the beginning, but as you advance - at least in the AM syllabus - open rumba walks are done with a straight leg, along with all open walks.

[Angel HI]

Originally Posted by contracheck http://www.dance-forums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?p=450821#post450821)
Rumba Walks in Am Rumba and Int Rumba are done done exactly in the same way as I described except that the Am Rumba walk is done with a bent leg whereas the Int Rumba Walk is done with a straight leg.


That's true at the beginning, but as you advance - at least in the AM syllabus - open rumba walks are done with a straight leg, along with all open walks.

Am walks 'begin' with a bent leg before straightening. The technique is simple. Am walks transfer the weight after taking the step (using the knee to straighten). Int walks transfer the weight before taking the step which causes the knee to straighten and giving the movement the distinctive look. The end result is the same.

In contemporary competition, the lines are so blurred that much crossover is acceptable.

Sorry to divert from the original thread.

[atk]

Am walks 'begin' with a bent leg before straightening. The technique is simple. Am walks transfer the weight after taking the step (using the knee to straighten). Int walks transfer the weight before taking the step which causes the knee to straighten and giving the movement the distinctive look. The end result is the same.

In contemporary competition, the lines are so blurred that much crossover is acceptable.

Sorry to divert from the original thread.

True at lower levels. Not true (at least as I learned it) as you progress.

[precious12]

Well, i saw my instructor today, and i am just going to do what he tells me unless i just get to feeling alittle "Hyper" while at the showcase, then i might do what my other instructor told me,and by the way she is a women who teaches most of the styling and footwork, so i might just do what she said, i mean i like her way alot better, it is more "sexy":cool:. I mean i do one way for one instructor and he is happy and the other way for the other instructor and she is happy, but if i switch it up, they just show me how to do it there way and not the other instructors way, so it can get confusing:confused:, i just want to get both of them together and say what way do you want it, pick one, you can not have both! For now i will do what the instructor i am dancing with wants, but i seriously need to talk to them to see which one i should use all of the time.;)

[FatBaldGuy60]

Have you actually told each of them that the other one is telling you a different way? And that you prefer to finish the move one way instead of wondering which way you should end it?

You post says you want to, so actually have them figure it out!

FBG

[tangotime]

[quote=Angel HI;450865]


Int walks transfer the weight before taking the step which causes the knee to straighten


Physical impossibility !!-- I think what you are trying to say-- As the next step is taken from the supporting leg, it commences to straighten before weight is placed upon it .

[Angel HI]

[quote=Angel HI;450865]


Int walks transfer the weight before taking the step which causes the knee to straighten


Physical impossibility !!-- I think what you are trying to say-- As the next step is taken from the supporting leg, it commences to straighten before weight is placed upon it .

Precisely. Thank you.

[Angel HI]

True at lower levels. Not true (at least as I learned it) as you progress.

Exactly the opposite...doesn't always happen at the lower levels. Improves as one progresses. Perhaps, Tango Time's correction of my early morning faux pas confused you.

[tangotime]

I believe there is confusion ,as to when and or where, a transition takes place .

The American style approach, was implemented for 2 reasons.

1 -- expediency ( the whole purpose of social )

2-- it is actually, more in line with the style of native latinos .

The amer. style, remains entrenched in that techniqual application, in most studios .


The International style, implements the opposite action, from day one .

[atk]

Exactly the opposite...doesn't always happen at the lower levels. Improves as one progresses. Perhaps, Tango Time's correction of my early morning faux pas confused you.


No, no confusion. I knew what you were trying to say. And, again, you're both right and wrong. Yes, when you just start out, you have no technique. As you progress, you start doing cuban motion. Eventually, when in open positions, you do straight-leg cuban motion, while still doing bent-leg cuban motion in closed positions.

[cornutt]

Both from what my instructor tells me, and from my own observations, most American rumba competitors are moving more towards the International style of stepping. The way we are now being taught is that the knee is bent as the toe first touches the floor, but straightening commences as the weight begins to transfer. The knee is fully straight a little before the weight transfer is complete.

[Josh]

Am walks 'begin' with a bent leg before straightening. The technique is simple. Am walks transfer the weight after taking the step (using the knee to straighten). Int walks transfer the weight before taking the step which causes the knee to straighten and giving the movement the distinctive look. The end result is the same.

In contemporary competition, the lines are so blurred that much crossover is acceptable.

Sorry to divert from the original thread.

Sorry to continue the diversion.. ;-)

Angel, your description confuses me a little, as you say that in Intl, you "transfer the weight before taking the step"--not sure how you would do that. In case anyone else is confused, here is the more common way to describe it:

American Rumba: leg is straightened AFTER the weight transfer (your weight arrives onto a bent leg)
Int'l Rumba: leg is straighted BEFORE the weight transfer (your weight arrives onto a straight leg)

Of course, as Angel said, whenever a standing leg is straight, to achieve any hip action at all, the moving leg must come under the body as a bent leg, before it moves again and becomes the standing leg.

[Josh]

Doh, I see that what I mentioned in my previous post had been addressed already--that's what I get for not reloading a page I had open 10 hours earlier :-)

I would agree with others that a traditional American Rumba hip action is rarely seen in American Rumba.

[Josh]

No, no confusion. I knew what you were trying to say. And, again, you're both right and wrong. Yes, when you just start out, you have no technique. As you progress, you start doing cuban motion. Eventually, when in open positions, you do straight-leg cuban motion, while still doing bent-leg cuban motion in closed positions.

This is a great point atk.

With your ankles touching, to achieve hip motion, the weight must be received onto a bent leg, not a straight one. At least, if the dancer doesn't want to look like a doofus.

Then when taking a decent-sized step (wider than shoulder-width or so), the leg will straighten before it receives the weight (at least, this way is prettier, IMO). This will mimic the more natural action of the way humans walk, namely, arriving on a straight leg (though not locked straight as in latin). Try walking with stepping onto a bent leg and feel how awkward it is. Just don't do it in public. :wink:

[Angel HI]

[quote=Josh;451405]American Rumba: leg is straightened AFTER the weight transfer (your weight arrives onto a bent leg)
Int'l Rumba: leg is straighted BEFORE the weight transfer (your weight arrives onto a straight leg)[quote]

Perfect.

Sorry to have caused such a diversion from the original question which I believe has been answered by simply doing what the instructor whom one is dancing with prefers.

[contracheck]

Well, i saw my instructor today, and i am just going to do what he tells me unless i just get to feeling alittle "Hyper" while at the showcase, then i might do what my other instructor told me,and by the way she is a women who teaches most of the styling and footwork, so i might just do what she said, i mean i like her way alot better, it is more "sexy":cool:. I mean i do one way for one instructor and he is happy and the other way for the other instructor and she is happy, but if i switch it up, they just show me how to do it there way and not the other instructors way, so it can get confusing:confused:, i just want to get both of them together and say what way do you want it, pick one, you can not have both! For now i will do what the instructor i am dancing with wants, but i seriously need to talk to them to see which one i should use all of the time.;)
You have not clarified what step you are trying to describe. Is it Rumba Walk or is it Alamena-Rope Spin or something else? All Rumba steps take bloody sweat, toil and tears. I heard Donnie Burns once saying that he walked to the Moon and back many a time to learn RUMBA WALK properly, and, he added, "it's not still perfect". So, be prepared to have long serious practice under competent coach and not just any coach. Rememebr that not all coaces are created equal.