Tipping at the restaurant

[tj]

Just wondering if I'm cheap because I still typically tip only 15%:

Article on tipping 20% (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/HeresATip20PercentIsTheNew15Percent.aspx) According to the author 90-95% of the people she talks to will tip 20%.

[samina]

depends on the sort of restaurant, really... how high-maintenance & sophisticated was the service. 15% would be very cheap at certain places. not cheap at a place like TGIF.

[Laura]

Sometimes I wonder how far this will go...a LONG time ago 10% was standard, then when I was growing up it became 15%....and now it seems to be moving to 20%. Where will it stop?

Obviously spectacular service deserves good tips, but if the baseline keeps moving up, then what?

I'm holding fast to 15%, unless I really feel that the person has gone above and beyond the call of duty or unless I've decided that I want to become a "regular" somewhere. Like, there used to be this Ethiopian place down the street from where I lived. I went there a *lot* and didn't want to see the place close while it was trying to catch on in the area, so I would leave really big tips to help the owners (who also did all the table waiting). But for the vast majority of places, I won't do that.

[samina]

it is common at very top-tier rest's to receive in the 20-25% range overall. under 20 is just "eh"- "normal". 15% would be an insult, or the sign of someone very cheap.

that's my inside perspective, having worked at many of them.

[mamboqueen]

and what do you do when the service completely sucks?

[tj]

and what do you do when the service completely sucks?

That one's easy. (have only had to do this one time, and it was due to exceptionally poor service) Leave a single penny, so that they know you didn't forget to tip.

[samina]

is it the fault of the server or something else, such as the kitchen or the bar? not all aspects of service are under the server's control. and that gratuity is their primary income... the hourly behind it may be negligible.

[samina]

fwiw, when i worked in the city, i commonly had zero-dollar paychecks, because all tips are declared & the tiny hourly rate minus taxation on the declared tips resulted in a negative amount every week...

[mamboqueen]

I would not shortchange a server for something beyond his/her control, but I have had really lousy (and sometimes attitudinal) service from a waitperson. In fact, I went to one of my favorite seafood places that I don't go to very often only to be waited on by a woman who was rather snotty the first time I had her. And my friend and I did nothing other than order a drink and food. Still left over 15%, but if I get her again, I'm going to ask to be seated somewhere other than where she's working. I don't get out often, and I really prefer to enjoy those rare occasions. I just can't understand how some people don't get the correlation between their behavior/demeanor and their resultant tips.

[tj]

I would not shortchange a server for something beyond his/her control, but I have had really lousy (and sometimes attitudinal) service from a waitperson. In fact, I went to one of my favorite seafood places that I don't go to very often only to be waited on by a woman who was rather snotty the first time I had her. And my friend and I did nothing other than order a drink and food. Still left over 15%, but if I get her again, I'm going to ask to be seated somewhere other than where she's working. I don't get out often, and I really prefer to enjoy those rare occasions. I just can't understand how some people don't get the correlation between their behavior/demeanor and their resultant tips.
I'd say that IME, in general, waitstaff here in the US is far better than in Europe - especially touristy areas. And a lot of that has to do with the tipping culture here in the US.


That being said, one does occasionally come across a waitperson who just doesn't really give a d**n. But thankfully it's really rare (again IME).

[samina]

I just can't understand how some people don't get the correlation between their behavior/demeanor and their resultant tips.

exactly. ultimately, the server needs to be able to tune into the needs of the guests & accommodate them if possible -- not everyone likes the same attitude. and there are even some that like being a bit abused... lol

personally, i like mostly to be left alone and for a server to be invisible. every time they barge in & interrupt my conversation to ask "is everything okay?" (hideous question...), that's behaviour that gradually diminishes my gratuity because it's entirely within their control. and i find it disruptive in the extreme.

[mamboqueen]

I'd say that IME, in general, waitstaff here in the US is far better than in Europe - especially touristy areas. And a lot of that has to do with the tipping culture here in the US.


That being said, one does occasionally come across a waitperson who just doesn't really give a d**n. But thankfully it's really rare (again IME).

Well, I find it varies from region to region. When I lived in NJ, I remember the service being pretty exceptional. Moved to Boston and it was shell shock. There is some good service here, but comparatively....better where I came from.

[samina]

That being said, one does occasionally come across a waitperson who just doesn't really give a d**n. But thankfully it's really rare (again IME).

i find that training is lacking in the US, tho, generally speaking. waiters may be eager to give good service, but they can only really do that if they've been educated on the details of what constitutes exceptional service.

europeans are more organized overall with their training of service personel. and that's often passed on through a rather harsh & abusive (archaic to an american's view) culture.

[tj]

It sounds to me like you're talking about high end restaurants, while I'm talking about the low end ones. :)

[Laura]

Yeah, at a high end restaurant where everything is fantastic and wonderful, I have and will continue tip more. But if I'm going to some randomly average place in some random city, then I don't see the point in spilling out 20% extra for average service on an average meal in an average place.

[and123]

Dittos. I tip 15% unless the waiter/tress is a major suck-up or exceedingly helpful.

[samina]

It sounds to me like you're talking about high end restaurants, while I'm talking about the low end ones. :)

i was just adding that for point of reference. :)

i agree with you... for ignorant, sloppy, lazy service at a low-end place, i wouldn't leave more than 15%.

[samina]

then I don't see the point in spilling out 20% extra for average service on an average meal in an average place.

yep.

[mamboqueen]

So, here's another question...what do you do if you're at a buffet?

[NielsenE]

eat a lot?

[and123]

I leave 15% if the server comes by frequently to check on drink status and clear away used plates and such.

[mamboqueen]

eat a lot?

I never get my money's worth, but my daughter more than makes up for it!

I usually do 15% as well. Sometimes my husband doesn't and I slither out of the place...or throw a few extra on the table. El cheapo.

[mamboqueen]

And what if they bring you over a tray full of chocolates??

*ducking*

[and123]

And what if they bring you over a tray full of chocolates??

*ducking*

Eat them, silly. Me and chocolate are on very good terms at the moment :cool:
BTW, I'm not anal-retentive about 15% (once knew someone who was infamous for scribbling on napkins to figure out their exact share :rolleyes:). I use it as a starting point and round accordingly.

[Peaches]

Huh. DH and I generally tip 20% for your low-end, run-of-the-mill restaurant and service. If we feel the service was bad enough to warrant dropping the tip below that, we'll tip 15% and speak to a manager, because we feel that there's a problem that management needs to know about. But we'll also talk to the manager (and tip 25%-30%) if the service was particularly good.

At our favorite high-end restaurant (dinner ~ $250-$300 by the time it's all said and done), where we have a particular favorite waiter who's spectacular (as expected, but still, he's wonderful) we generally tip 30%-35%. But that's only once a year, around X-mas, and we're there to have fun, blow lots of money, and be generous.

Don't know about buffets...

[tj]

At buffets, I tend to leave 10% (15% at most).

At these new fast casual places, I usually don't tip.

[tj]

Bottom line - this anecdotal evidence sure seems like it's a lot less than 95% of us are tipping 20% on a regular basis at all restaurants.

[samina]

So, here's another question...what do you do if you're at a buffet?

10-15% i guess is what i do, or used to. jeez... can't remember the last time i went to one. ::feeling a craving for sunday brunch coming on...::

[mamboqueen]

10-15% i guess is what i do, or used to. jeez... can't remember the last time i went to one. ::feeling a craving for sunday brunch coming on...::

starting with a Bloody Mary made well.... ;)

[samina]

Bottom line - this anecdotal evidence sure seems like it's a lot less than 95% of us are tipping 20% on a regular basis at all restaurants.

actually, i'd fall into that category in that i do generally go to decent places & get nice service. i rarely go to places where the service culture is crap.

[tj]

10-15% i guess is what i do, or used to. jeez... can't remember the last time i went to one. ::feeling a craving for sunday brunch coming on...::

Might I suggest Dim Sum in Chinatown in 'The City'? :)

[LucyDiamond]

Might I suggest Dim Sum in Chinatown in 'The City'? :)
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

[and123]

thankyouverymuch, people. Now I'm craving chinese food!

[quixotedlm]

My baseline is usually 15%, but on a whimsical basis, it can go down to 10%. It just depends on my mood at any given day, and how much I think the whole staff (not just the waitstaff - but the seaters, waitstaff, cleaners, chefs and all) have contributed to my experience. If it was a good experience for me, but not because of what the people working there did especially for me (eg, Taco bell always has good service because they are designed to be fast, efficient and accurate), then I tip 10%. If the staff worked hard to make me happy, the baseline is 15%.

Now for fast food joints, I don't tip at all.
I don't tip for take-outs either.
For buffets, I generally don't tip. Unless there is a component of the buffet-experience that is personalized (eg, wine was served), I don't feel like I need to tip.
Also, I don't tip at coffee shops like Starbucks etc.

For bad service, my tip is 0. I think that leaving a penny is mean, but I might do that some day.

I realize that the waitstaff might primarily earn through tips, but I didn't create that system, nor did I willingly decide to work in a place where my income primarily depends on a concept (tipping) which can be prone to different perceptions and philosophies depending on the personality and background of the customer, where the rules of tipping and etiquette are not set in stone but open to discussion. It's a voluntary risk the waitstaff has taken, and it's not my problem to assuage that risk for all the waitstaff that serve me everywhere :)

To me, as a customer, a tip is a token of special appreciation. It is not an entitlement, it's a gift of generosity and thanks. It is my prerogative to tip 0 if I'm not in a mood to tip, despite good service. Similarly, it is my prerogative to hold off on tipping if the food was bad (despite being well made, because the recipe could have been a bad one or just not something to my liking). The tip is not about how hard they tried, the tip is about how taken care of & pampered I feel at the end of my exprience in a restaurant.

There have been occasions when I've tipped 100%, but really, I don't care about the fact that the waitstaff makes their income from tips. To me, it's not about them - it's about me :)

[LucyDiamond]

My baseline is usually 15%, but on a whimsical basis, it can go down to 10%. It just depends on my mood at any given day, and how much I think the whole staff (not just the waitstaff - but the seaters, waitstaff, cleaners, chefs and all) have contributed to my experience. If it was a good experience for me, but not because of what the people working there did especially for me (eg, Taco bell always has good service because they are designed to be fast, efficient and accurate), then I tip 10%. If the staff worked hard to make me happy, the baseline is 15%.

Now for fast food joints, I don't tip at all.
I don't tip for take-outs either.
For buffets, I generally don't tip. Unless there is a component of the buffet-experience that is personalized (eg, wine was served), I don't feel like I need to tip.
Also, I don't tip at coffee shops like Starbucks etc.

For bad service, my tip is 0. I think that leaving a penny is mean, but I might do that some day.

I realize that the waitstaff might primarily earn through tips, but I didn't create that system, nor did I willingly decide to work in a place where my income primarily depends on a concept (tipping) which can be prone to different perceptions and philosophies depending on the personality and background of the customer, where the rules of tipping and etiquette are not set in stone but open to discussion. It's a voluntary risk the waitstaff has taken, and it's not my problem to assuage that risk for all the waitstaff that serve me everywhere :)

To me, as a customer, a tip is a token of special appreciation. It is not an entitlement, it's a gift of generosity and thanks. It is my prerogative to tip 0 if I'm not in a mood to tip, despite good service. Similarly, it is my prerogative to hold off on tipping if the food was bad (despite being well made, because the recipe could have been a bad one or just not something to my liking). The tip is not about how hard they tried, the tip is about how taken care of & pampered I feel at the end of my exprience in a restaurant.

There have been occasions when I've tipped 100%, but really, I don't care about the fact that the waitstaff makes their income from tips. To me, it's not about them - it's about me :)
Well said!!! :applause:

[samina]

Might I suggest Dim Sum in Chinatown in 'The City'? :)

oooo... now that sounds fabulous... and am thinking, they probly have liquor license... and therefore tiki drinks! :D

[samina]

I realize that the waitstaff might primarily earn through tips, but I didn't create that system, nor did I willingly decide to work in a place where my income primarily depends on a concept (tipping) which can be prone to different perceptions and philosophies depending on the personality and background of the customer, where the rules of tipping and etiquette are not set in stone but open to discussion. It's a voluntary risk the waitstaff has taken, and it's not my problem to assuage that risk for all the waitstaff that serve me everywhere :)

actually, the moment you go into a restaurant and expect someone to take your order & bring you your food & drink, you are willingly & consciously participating in that system, and you are responsible for compensating the restaurant for what you consume & the waitstaff for their service. the tip is not optional... it is your payment for their service.

To me, as a customer, a tip is a token of special appreciation. It is not an entitlement, it's a gift of generosity and thanks. It is my prerogative to tip 0 if I'm not in a mood to tip, despite good service.

it is no such thing in the US. go to europe if you like that system... or don't eat in restaurants where you expect them to serve you. it's not a charity, quix.

[Peaches]

Quix:

Ouch. Harsh.

I only hope, for your sake, that you never find yourself in a position of having to wait tables to make ends meet--and having to deal with the caprice of strangers in trying to make your rent.

Furthermore, your idea of screwing over the server for things outside of their direct control is faulty. You message gets lost in the meanness of it. If you truly want to send a message of your discontent, then talk to the manager.

[samina]

that sort of paradigm is no doubt why i'm finding it more common of late that restaurants have eliminated the "optional" aspect of tipping, and are automatically including a flat 18% rate, even for small parties. used to be that 18% was added for parties of, say, 6 or more. now it's beginning to happen automatically for everyone.

[samina]

Furthermore, your idea of screwing over the server for things outside of their direct control is faulty. You message gets lost in the meanness of it. If you truly want to send a message of your discontent, then talk to the manager.

yes. what does the taste of the food have to do with the tip, i wonder...

[Peaches]

I understand the reasoning behind that, but it still rankles. (Even though I know you don't actually have to pay the full 18%.)

[Peaches]

yes. what does the taste of the food have to do with the tip, i wonder...
Exactly. If the food is bad, send it back. If there are other problems, talk with the manager. Point is, make the complaint known to the person who has the power to fix it.

Also, I wonder how many people realize that servers often have to pay out parts of their tips to bussers and hosts.

[samina]

actually, i believe once it's listed on the menu, as is the usual practice, it becomes an obligation like the food & drink.

but i don't think it's greed that launched the new practice...

[Peaches]

Um...might want to double check. I believe there may have been a lawsuit or something, the effect of which said that it cannot be forced. You are still at liberty, I believe, to adjust the tip at will. (Most people just don't bother.)

Caveat: I could be horribly, horribly wrong.

[samina]

Also, I wonder how many people realize that servers often have to pay out parts of their tips to bussers and hosts.

yep. in low-end places, this is usually done individually. in the better ones, all tips -- both cash & credit -- are pooled collectively and then broken out on a point scale for the various people involved. here's a list of all the people that were paid out of each tip: busser, food runner, front waiter, captain, maitre d', bartender, and wine steward. ergo... why a 20% tip in such places doesn't make anyone bat an eyelash.

and none of it is "cash" -- it's all claimed.

[samina]

Um...might want to double check. I believe there may have been a lawsuit or something, the effect of which said that it cannot be forced. You are still at liberty, I believe, to adjust the tip at will. (Most people just don't bother.)

Caveat: I could be horribly, horribly wrong.

interesting. wouldn't be surprised. that's a systemic change. rocks people's comfy boats when that happens. :)

[delamusica]

@ Quix:

I'm so, so glad that the majority of customers I had when waiting tables were not like you. Although, there was one month when I didn't make rent because there was a new cook at the restaurant who was poorly trained and slow, so people stopped tipping me.
(Upside - I never would have gone out with my now-SO if I hadn't been so desperate for a free meal that month.)

Are you aware that the hourly wage for waitstaff usually amounts to zero after tax? Your tip is their wage. Do you think it's fair for the rest of the people dining around you to subsidize your service in their payment of waitstaff? Because someone has to pay them if they are to continue working in the venues that you visit. And if it's not you, then someone else is paying for you to be served.

Oh. And how nice for you that you never had to work a job that was not of your choosing.

[tj]

So... err... um... anyone end up going out for Chinese food and Tiki drinks tonight?

[and123]

Heck yeah! :cool:http://foldies.wtms.net/drinking.gif

[samina]

lol... count me in. man, can i use one! http://foldies.wtms.net/drinking.gif:cool:http://foldies.wtms.net/drinking.gif

it's always interesting when a thread unexpectedly veers into... colorful territory. :)

[mamboqueen]

So... err... um... anyone end up going out for Chinese food and Tiki drinks tonight?

with you, tj! Just lead the way (and make sure we don't leave the tippin' to Quix!)!

[mamboqueen]

lol... count me in. man, can i use one! http://foldies.wtms.net/drinking.gif:cool:http://foldies.wtms.net/drinking.gif

it's always interesting when a thread unexpectedly veers into... colorful territory. :)

just wait....lucy gets here and we'll have the Brazilians or EEs in the picture.

[tj]

:cool: :cool: :)

[tj]

So back to the 90-95% that the writer of that article... if that were true, then we should have perhaps 1 person in this thread who tips 15% and the rest of us would be tipping 20%. Instead, Samina appears to be the generous one here.

It would make a mild difference to me, as I eat at (lower end) restaurants for lunch on most days. Typically, I'm leaving about 15%, and am relatively sure that it's about the same as my co-workers.

Maybe it's also a regional thing, too?

[mamboqueen]

So back to the 90-95% that the writer of that article... if that were true, then we should have perhaps 1 person in this thread who tips 15% and the rest of us would be tipping 20%. Instead, Samina appears to be the generous one here.

It would make a mild difference to me, as I eat at (lower end) restaurants for lunch on most days. Typically, I'm leaving about 15%, and am relatively sure that it's about the same as my co-workers.

Maybe it's also a regional thing, too?


I usually leave 20%. And that's partially because it's just easier to figure out than 15%. But, almost always do it.

[quixotedlm]

Not going to respond to samina, peaches, delamusica et al.

Since you all feel too strongly about this, I'm worried that you can't have an objective debate on this subject. So not engaging.

[quixotedlm]

I've a curiosity question - since we are all dancers.

I almost never drink when I go to a club to dance. I buy water though. I suspect many of you are like me (okay, you are not like the tipping-morality-lacking heathen that I am, but i guess you get my point!). Do you tip on the water?

Edit - So do you 'leave a tip' in the jar, or do you conscientously tip 15-20% or more on the price of water ? For eg, if a bottle is $1.50, would you pay $1.80/$1.75 or $2.00 instead, keeping in mind that $1.50 for a bottle of water is really already 250% of what the actual price is... ?

[mamboqueen]

I almost never drink when I go to a club to dance. I buy water though. I suspect many of you are like that too. Do you tip on the water?

If it's at a club or restaurant, absolutely. Even if it's at a dance at a non-club venue, I leave a tip (there's usually a basket or cup).

[fascination]

tipping...I try to be generous regardless of the fanciness of the place....if the server attempted to meet my needs and they were pleasant they will get 20 percent or more...if I had to wait for my wine or my coffee they're prolly gonna get 15 unless they apologize....they would have to be an outright nasty person to get less...BUT, I am capable and I will do it vocally...generally, if I get very fine service they can expect 25% or better...I would never leave one cent...that would reflect poorly on me...if it was that bad, someone would hear about it in a rational manner (as long as they were pleasant in return)

[fascination]

and I would never punish a server for inadequecies beyond their control....however, if they fail to explain to me why I have waited for an hour for my wine and it isn't their fault..well, everyone is gonna pay if I don't get an explanation and a free drink

[tj]

At socials, I always tip (it's usually a salsera stuck behind the table). At bars & restaurants, I'll usually tip, but since that's anywhere from a 50% to 100% tip ($1 tip on $1-2 water), I won't tip every time.

If I know that I'm going to need more than water, I'll often buy 2 and then only have to tip the $1. Also, sometimes I'll buy a round of water for friends, since they'll usually return the favor.

[mamboqueen]

tipping...I try to be generous regardless of the fanciness of the place....if the server attempted to meet my needs and they were pleasant they will get 20 percent or more...if I had to wait for my wine or my coffee they're prolly gonna get 15 unless they apologize....they would have to be an outright nasty person to get less...BUT, I am capable and I will do it vocally...generally, if I get very fine service they can expect 25% or better...I would never leave one cent...that would reflect poorly on me...if it was that bad, someone would hear about it in a rational manner (as long as they were pleasant in return)

One one occasion when we had a WWA (waitress with attitude), I just looked at her and asked if we had said or did something that bothered her. She went on (a bit too long) about how bad her day had been. After that, she was fine. It seemed she needed to vent. We left a good tip. But at least she was apologetic.

[tj]

Hmm, I feel like I should tell the story about when I left the 1 penny tip. (It was actually 1 pence.)

I was traveling London by myself. Stopped at an Indian restaurant admittedly a little late on the lunch hour. Like maybe 2pm? Anyway, it was well within their posted hours (til 3pm). I was the only one there, and the waiter was watching a football (soccer) game when I walked in.

Within a couple minutes of getting my food, the waiter started getting on my case since he wanted to close up for the afternoon. I was like, then why did you take my order? :shock: Anyway, he slowly got more unpleasant as he made me rush my lunch.

I suppose I could have asked for the manager - not like I saw one. Instead I left him a one pence coin (after paying with my credit card). I hope he knew that I left it because I was pissed with him.

[mamboqueen]

Some European countries include the tip in the bill, right? We were told this while in Germany...after leaving several tips.

[tj]

Some European countries include the tip in the bill, right? We were told this while in Germany...after leaving several tips.
Yes, it's quite possible that my intention was totally lost on the guy.

Hindsight being 20/20, perhaps, I should've eaten some of the meal, gotten up when he got ornery and refused to pay.

[mamboqueen]

Hindsight being 20/20, perhaps, I should've eaten some of the meal, gotten up when he got ornery and refused to pay.

Easier to do when you're out of your own neighborhood ;) :uplaugh:

[elisedance]

thats right - and its true here too for parties of over 6 or more (I suppose because groups shy at the sight of a tip of $100 or more).

(I have not read the thread so sorry if hthis has already come up). My pet peeve is that people religiously give 15 % or so regardless of the restaurant. So I go for breakfast every day and the diner only charges $5 for the meal. Because of their excellent value the waiters typically get less than a $1 tip. And then you go to a disgusting overpriced italian or something restuarant where the bill comes to $100 - and the waiter gets $15. Thats why try to tip what its worth - and always over tip a place that has good value (typically $2.00 - 40% - for my breakfast).

[tj]

Easier to do when you're out of your own neighborhood :uplaugh:
Lol, good point! :rolleyes: ;) :)

[fascination]

One one occasion when we had a WWA (waitress with attitude), I just looked at her and asked if we had said or did something that bothered her. She went on (a bit too long) about how bad her day had been. After that, she was fine. It seemed she needed to vent. We left a good tip. But at least she was apologetic.
yep...spare me a long sotry, but the apology goes a long way...in the service industry your problem isn't my problem, but if you will be sorry I will be compassionate....

[fascination]

Hmm, I feel like I should tell the story about when I left the 1 penny tip. (It was actually 1 pence.)

I was traveling London by myself. Stopped at an Indian restaurant admittedly a little late on the lunch hour. Like maybe 2pm? Anyway, it was well within their posted hours (til 3pm). I was the only one there, and the waiter was watching a football (soccer) game when I walked in.

Within a couple minutes of getting my food, the waiter started getting on my case since he wanted to close up for the afternoon. I was like, then why did you take my order? :shock: Anyway, he slowly got more unpleasant as he made me rush my lunch.

I suppose I could have asked for the manager - not like I saw one. Instead I left him a one pence coin (after paying with my credit card). I hope he knew that I left it because I was pissed with him.makes more sense in that context

[mamboqueen]

thats right - and its true here too for parties of over 6 or more (I suppose because groups shy at the sight of a tip of $100 or more).

(I have not read the thread so sorry if hthis has already come up). My pet peeve is that people religiously give 15 % or so regardless of the restaurant. So I go for breakfast every day and the diner only charges $5 for the meal. Because of their excellent value the waiters typically get less than a $1 tip. And then you go to a disgusting overpriced italian or something restuarant where the bill comes to $100 - and the waiter gets $15. Thats why try to tip what its worth - and always over tip a place that has good value (typically $2.00 - 40% - for my breakfast).


I think this along the lines of what tj said above about paying $1 for water. I think percentage wise, people probably give a much higher tip. Honestly, I can't see someone counting out 15 or 20 cents. Same thing with an inexpensive meal...you're tying the table up for an hour...I think it's fair to increase the tip.

I only waitressed one day in my life. I thought "oh, I'll wear heels, I hate flats". Well, my feet were red and throbbing when I got home. I had no idea what I was doing (and they threw me right into a bachelor party - oh yay)...I was giving away free food, I'm sure. It was NOT an easy job. I did okay tip-wise, but came out with an appreciation of what waitstaff go through. It's not a fun or glorious job. And as often as you can run across waitstaff with attitude, I'm sure they bump into more than their fair share of difficult people. Definitely not a job I'd want to do again.

[meow]

I haven't read the thread (sorry) but I must tell you that I wouldn't have a clue as I have never tipped anyone in my life. Tipping doesn't happen here. And, when I used to visit the States lots I was a kid and I did'nt pay for anything back then. My son recently returned from spending some time in the US and he had never heard of tipping before - he had to keep reminding himself to do it.

[elisedance]

Its an interesting thing really: it shifts the source of income from the person who hires to the person who gets the service - a very american thing. The plus side is that there is a positive re-inforcement for good service. On the bad is that it permits people to be hired at minimal wages - upon which their benefits are calculated. Unlike regular employees for whom benefits accumulate in proportion to their income, wait staff may not realize that they need to invest some of their tips for retirement etc. and come out rather short.

[samina]

So back to the 90-95% that the writer of that article... if that were true, then we should have perhaps 1 person in this thread who tips 15% and the rest of us would be tipping 20%. Instead, Samina appears to be the generous one here.

and peaches & her DH... :D... and fasc, it appears. the percentage is growing.

[samina]

... I won't tip every time.


that's my approach when i'm out dancing... if i'm getting a drink, i'll tip well at least once, and do try to stay with the same bartender throughout the night. i make a point of getting their names, as well...

have always believed it wise to know & take care of whoever is the source of my food & drink, whether it's a server or a company chef or... mom :). makes my life oh-so-much-more pleasant. and then there's the what-goes-around-comes-around principle.

[Peaches]

have always believed it wise to know & take care of whoever is the source of my food & drink, whether it's a server or a company chef or... mom :). makes my life oh-so-much-more pleasant. and then there's the what-goes-around-comes-around principle.Yep, karma.

And, I appreciate the people who do things for me...even though it's their job.

And, I've btdt, and it's hard as hell.

And, I'm just grateful that I'm not having to cook myself dinner.

And, I'm grateful that I'm in a position in life where I don't have to be waiting tables, and can afford to go out, and can afford to tip a bit extra.

Really, once it's all said and done, the difference between 15% and 20% isn't that much extra.

And the math is easier.

[fascination]

that's my approach when i'm out dancing... if i'm getting a drink, i'll tip well at least once, and do try to stay with the same bartender throughout the night. i make a point of getting their names, as well...

have always believed it wise to know & take care of whoever is the source of my food & drink, whether it's a server or a company chef or... mom :). makes my life oh-so-much-more pleasant. and then there's the what-goes-around-comes-around principle.
I always tip well on my first drink...and everyone thereafter if I am given cause to:wink:

[MacMoto]

This thread's been very educational...

I was brought up in a country where there's no custom of tipping, so I've always found it hard to work out when and how much to tip. In the UK, I think the norm is to leave 10% or bit more at restaurants, but you don't tip at pubs/bars. I'm going to NY at the end of this month, and you've save me from committing some serious faux pas I think! :shock:

[tj]

I can understand how confusing it is when you're somewhere with a totally different tipping culture.

I have a friend who is from Cyprus, who didn't realize that he was supposed to tip the pizza delivery guy. And when he asked us why was the guy so PO'd, we teased him that he'd better not order from that same pizza place. ;)

[samina]

This thread's been very educational...

I was brought up in a country where there's no custom of tipping, so I've always found it hard to work out when and how much to tip. In the UK, I think the norm is to leave 10% or bit more at restaurants, but you don't tip at pubs/bars. I'm going to NY at the end of this month, and you've save me from committing some serious faux pas I think! :shock:

that's good. it's so interesting to get different points of view, culturally.

i spent many years making my wages from tips, so this thread gave me some bits to reflect upon overnight. and a couple things came up. one is that, while tips are viewed as optional, it degrades the perceived professionalism of waitstaff -- there is more of a professional identity for waiters in europe, for example, where their wages are handled differently.

however... the other thought i had is i'm not a supporter of duplicating the system & culture over there, because i just adore the freer american way of things, where you have more room to maneuver and "work it". a more organized culture can also be more entrenched in what it allows & disallows.
i would not like the fallout of regulating the tips more... i think it creates laziness & lack of creativity.

meh... just some thoughts...

[samina]

And as often as you can run across waitstaff with attitude, I'm sure they bump into more than their fair share of difficult people. Definitely not a job I'd want to do again.

it's definitely an intense education in human behaviour. lol. but i'll tell ya, i accumulated some great stories over the years, and waited on some very interesting people... mafia... columbian druglords... celebs... wall-street types complaining their bonus for the year was only a $mil... politicos...

and the conversations you overhear... it really is like being a fly on the wall.:cool:

[quixotedlm]

Just for the heck of it and to get watch the world from the other side of the pond, I asked to volunteer at a place where I would be either part of the waitstaff or cash-register type of work - essentially be part of the service-staff. If I get the gig (which will be only about a week, but still interesting), I might post my experiences here :) I wonder if I'll get it though... waiting to find out.

[samina]

you volunteered at a regular place of business? or is this a program at work or something?

would be very cool experience, i think. would love to hear about it.

it's intense work, that's for sure. one place i worked -- the most stressful job i've ever had of any kind -- the waitstaff collectively limited the waiter's stories to one per person per night... because once you get started, it can be hard to stop. just for the stress relief.

[quixotedlm]

you volunteered at a regular place of business? or is this a program at work or something?


neither. this is @ burning man :) 40k crazy mad customers in a shop run by volunteers who are likely to be hung over, high or just not show up - in a place that's hot as hell where the only 2 things for sale are coffee and ice :)

i'm not trying to experience the tipping culture - just want to see how customers interact with cafe staff.

[samina]

oh, gotcha. yah, that's not an environment where i'd be expecting any tips... lol
certainly very colorful, tho!

[elisedance]

I worked in quite a number of restaurants and learned one rule of thumb:
You never eat at a restaurant you once worked at.................................... ack!

[fascination]

so true...my minor was in restuarant and hotel institutions, and I worked at both the notre dame food service and the roosevelt university food service as well as for canteen corporation in management...and let me tell you I never returned to any of those locations

[elisedance]

odd how one has faith that any other restaurant will be better....

there again, I bet they don't have many where the first thing you had to do each morning was to fill the Heniz tomato ketchup (sp?) bottles with no-name red stuff....

[waltzgirl]

At one point in my career, I was hiring people to work at the check-in area in a hospital emergency room--the first person who deals with aptients coming in to emergency. I quickly found that, other than having done the exact same job elsewhere, the best background for the job was having been a waiter. They could multi-task, remain aware of several different siutations simultaneously, adjust priorities on the fly, and deal with difficult people (sick perople/hungry people--it's a toss-up who's crankier).

[fascination]

odd how one has faith that any other restaurant will be better....

there again, I bet they don't have many where the first thing you had to do each morning was to fill the Heniz tomato ketchup (sp?) bottles with no-name red stuff....
meh...not better but, at least elsewhere you don't the the specific faults of the place

[samina]

I worked in quite a number of restaurants and learned one rule of thumb:
You never eat at a restaurant you once worked at.................................... ack!

huh... has been the opposite for me. still a fan of my restaurant alma maters... would go any chance i get.

[samina]

They could multi-task, remain aware of several different siutations simultaneously, adjust priorities on the fly, and deal with difficult people (sick perople/hungry people--it's a toss-up who's crankier).

great observation. there's definitely a correlation in skillsets.

to this day, even taking my techno/scientific consulting into account, the most demanding & stressful job i have ever held was working at one particular popular place in nyc... twas like being a human computer, with nary a rest, whilst being charming and dealing with demanding clientèle who gave very little margin for error. i remember once in the year i was there standing around for ten minutes and feeling so odd... and realizing it was because that never occurred before.

[meow]

But don't you have to tip other people, not just wait staff? Like people who take your bags to your room or deliver room service? I wouldn't know who to tip or how much. And do you really have to tip a pizza delivery person?

[quixotedlm]

But don't you have to tip other people, not just wait staff? Like people who take your bags to your room or deliver room service? I wouldn't know who to tip or how much. And do you really have to tip a pizza delivery person?

If there is a delivery fee, then I'm less inclined to tip.

People who take my bags etc - I'll try to give them a tip during checkout. I'll ask their name and if I can't find them during checkout, I'll leave an envelope with the tip and their name on the front with the front-desk. In general, the only people who get any tip at all from me are those who are proactive about serving me during my hotel stay. If they helped me on a one-off basis (like taking my stuff upstairs in an elevator just once, or opened doors for me one time), then it is part of the hotel wages for them and I don't tip.

[reb]

If there is a delivery fee, then I'm less inclined to tip.

People who take my bags etc - I'll try to give them a tip during checkout. I'll ask their name and if I can't find them during checkout, I'll leave an envelope with the tip and their name on the front with the front-desk. In general, the only people who get any tip at all from me are those who are proactive about serving me during my hotel stay. If they helped me on a one-off basis (like taking my stuff upstairs in an elevator just once, or opened doors for me one time), then it is part of the hotel wages for them and I don't tip.

Going through school, I delivered pizza (and waited at both Italian and Chinese restaurants) which as Samina alluded to were no less hard in their own way than the factory, warehouse, and interning I did.

In those days, the car was owned by the pizza joint owner and if there was a delivery fee - it went to the additional expense of the car, gas, maintenance, and had nothing to do with the price of a pizza served or picked-up - and nothing to do with delivering in sub-zero weather.

I didn't care whether someone tipped 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% - I figured each person had their own story to tell - but what made an impression on me was that so many people did not tip at all (or barely) - that I remember thinking . . . if only everyone tipped a little how wonderful that would be. And I saw things that only wait staff will see such as couples leaving but then the invited guest/date returning to take the money off the table . . . .

[meow]

And I saw things that only wait staff will see such as couples leaving but then the invited guest/date returning to take the money off the table . . . .

Now, that seems downright dishonest. The money would have been left for the waiter/ress so for someone else to take it is stealing in my book.:mad: If I was in the US and had to tip at a restaurant, how would you go about it? Do you give it directly to the waiter/ress? Leaving it to be possibly taken by someone would worry me.

[elisedance]

huh... has been the opposite for me. still a fan of my restaurant alma maters... would go any chance i get.

I thinnk maybe we worked in different class of establishments? Or maybe yours were after restaurant inspections started....

[samina]

I thinnk maybe we worked in different class of establishments

yes, think this is it. your mention of the ketchup bottles...

there is but one area in which i have been a total unabashed snob in my life, and that was where i worked as a waiter. a ketchup bottle would've been an instant cue for me to find the door...

my reasoning was that the best money would always be found at the hottest places with the higher prices... sexy mobbed hotspots that would raise people's brows when you dropped the name. that was always my criteria, and if i worked at a place that didn't fit it, it was never for long. i mean, i quit the rainbow room at nyc cuz their uniform revolted me. snob. :rolleyes:

besides, it's way more interesting to work at places like that.

[samina]

Going through school, I delivered pizza (and waited at both Italian and Chinese restaurants) which as Samina alluded to were no less hard in their own way than the factory, warehouse, and interning I did.

reb, i can't get the image out of my head of you delivering pizza in your competition duds... dear heart, be still, that's something i'd gladly reward with 100% tips, pizza after pizza after pizza... lol

[Peaches]

And I saw things that only wait staff will see such as couples leaving but then the invited guest/date returning to take the money off the table . . . .OMG. People actually do this?!?!?! I mean, I've heard of that kind of thing...but I just can't believe that people actually, really do that. OMG. Holy crap. That's horrible!!!

[elisedance]

yes, think this is it. your mention of the ketchup bottles...

there is but one area in which i have been a total unabashed snob in my life, and that was where i worked as a waiter. a ketchup bottle would've been an instant cue for me to find the door...

my reasoning was that the best money would always be found at the hottest places with the higher prices... sexy mobbed hotspots that would raise people's brows when you dropped the name. that was always my criteria, and if i worked at a place that didn't fit it, it was never for long. i mean, i quit the rainbow room at nyc cuz their uniform revolted me. snob. :rolleyes:

besides, it's way more interesting to work at places like that.

Choice??? there wasn't any choice in my case. Sheesh. I suspect the restaurants we worked at may not have been the only difference...

Apparently, I became a princess by usurping the role and you did by inheritance...........

:notworth:
:p:p

[samina]

Choice??? there wasn't any choice in my case. Sheesh. I suspect the restaurants we worked at may not have been the only difference...

Apparently, I became a princess by usurping the role and you did by inheritance...........

:notworth:
:p

snarky. :cool:

i'm telling you, admitted total snob, but just in that one area. it was never about putting anyone else down for where they worked, but yep, very princessy about where i'd deign to work. i tried working in "lesser" joints, but couldn't bring myself to stay. there was no getting around my royal sensibilities. :rolleyes:

[reb]

OMG. People actually do this?!?!?! I mean, I've heard of that kind of thing...but I just can't believe that people actually, really do that. OMG. Holy crap. That's horrible!!!
My feelings exactly!

[reb]

Now, that seems downright dishonest. The money would have been left for the waiter/ress so for someone else to take it is stealing in my book.:mad: If I was in the US and had to tip at a restaurant, how would you go about it? Do you give it directly to the waiter/ress? Leaving it to be possibly taken by someone would worry me.
So much today is electronic and cards that it is less of a cause for worry for me anymore. But when cash is involved . . . .

[reb]

yes, think this is it. your mention of the ketchup bottles...
DW cringes at the thought of me and ketchup

[elisedance]

DW cringes at the thought of me and ketchup

remember the comic character that used to eat 1 inch tomato ketchup sandwiches? It was a young boy but I'll be darned if I can remember who...

Oh, and, yes, as I recall tomato ketchup sandwiches (with butter) were pretty good as a kid though the thought gives me the heaves now...

[samina]

DW cringes at the thought of me and ketchup

i love ketchup... on eggs, on steak, grilled cheese... even buttered spaghetti... lol

[Peaches]

i love ketchup... on eggs, on steak, grilled cheese... even buttered spaghetti... lolOh. Oh. Oh, no. *gack!* Eggs, fine. Fries, fine. But steak??? Spaghetti??? What's wrong with just butter on spaghetti? (Or if you really want to get fancy, some garlic and parmesan or romano?) Ketchup???

*hurl*

[meow]

I can eat steak with Ketchup but would prefer something else, like a nice mushroom gravy. As for spagetti, no way with ketchup! Garlic Bolognese sauce for me.

[fascination]

Oh. Oh. Oh, no. *gack!* Eggs, fine. Fries, fine. But steak??? Spaghetti??? What's wrong with just butter on spaghetti? (Or if you really want to get fancy, some garlic and parmesan or romano?) Ketchup???

*hurl*
ketchup=ew...except occasionally with fries or O-rings

[samina]

it's the secret anti-homemade, anti-natural side of me, i guess... meh, so what. steak & ketchup is awesome. but then, i hardly ever have steak anymore, with ketchup even less so... so shut me up.

[elisedance]

if I had some ketchup, we could have steak and ketchup, if I had a steak

:)

[thespina13]

I really want a steak. If only I wanted steak! I have an unsettling intolerance for meat right now. I would gladly surrender the nuts and tofu for actually ENJOYING a nice, juicy piece of animal.

[tj]

Ugh, ketchup sandwiches, lol!

I like a good steak, too. Can't say I've had one recently though.

And Re: buttered noodles...
It's not too far from the foundation of pesto, which is just oil/fat + garlic & herbs, right?

[Sabor]

know what?.. a few days ago i saw this program by chance about chefs and what happens in the cook room at a restaurant.. and let me tell u .. i was freaked..

i cant beleive the sick things they caught on camera of what could happen to the food back there.. on purpose!.. i'm gona save u the details..

bottom line.. TIP WELL.. and if u dont.. dont go back any time soon!

[Me]

I loved in Europe where the tips were included in the price of the meal. The few restaurants that did not do this were the ones I did not return to. Having to stop and dig change out of my purse and 'grade' my service (and struggle with my conscious) cheapens the overall dining experience for me.

[Ron Obvious]

In Finland we don't tip. I think the official rule is that you can tip if you find the service especially good, but I think I can say that tipping definitely is an exception. In consequence, the service is worse: in a salsa congress I asked the cloakroom person if I could get my bag to change shirt and he replied "Do you have to get it now?". The were no other people waiting so whatever the reason for this rude behaviour was, it wasn'ty that he was busy.

I wish we had a tipping culture here so that we would have some bad service punishing tools.

It would also help me when travelling abroad. In Mexico there was a guy in the toilet that handed me paper for drying my hands. I just said "Gracias". I'm so unused to tipping.