How to Handle Cancellations

[DanceMentor]

I'm curious what you think are fair policies for handling cancelled lessons. For example, if a student just doesn't show up and doesn't call, should they be charged? Or should you give the student a couple of warnings first? Also, how much notice is reasonable? 24 hours?

I just had a student cancel. She is sick. She emailed me to let me know, and I appreciated that, but it made me think of other situations in the past.

[pygmalion]

I think that habitual cancellers should be charged. The first time it happens, well, okay. Things DO happen. But, if it happens a couple times or a bunch of times, charge her. Your time is valuable. And if she hadn't made the appointment, you could have scheduled someone else in that slot. There's no reason why you should bear the burden yourself.


On the other hand, things do happen. So the first time, let her slide. But if cancelling becomes a habit, charge her. I bet you'll find that she stops cancelling.

[SDsalsaguy]

I agree with Jenn... well, wait a minute... ok, actually I do and I don't! :?

I say it comes down to why... even a first cancellation because "I forgot," or "I overslept" could be charged in my estimation. While, on the flip side, a last minute cancellation for a very serious reason should, to my way of thinking at least, be understood.

Any pattern of cancellations, however, needs to be charged in full!

[Sagitta]

Ditto!! I overslept is not an acceptable excuse. Appropriate notification occasionally well before the class/ lesson, with the right circumstances, should be excused.

[JohnK]

Dance coaches have to make a living just like anyone else, and wasted time comes *directly* out of their pocket unlike someone goofing off at the office while on the clock. My coach simply has a sign up stating that cancellations less than a day in advance will be charged. It's really about respect for another's time. With the proliferation of cell phones today, there really is no excuse.

[Sagitta]

Dance coaches have to make a living just like anyone else, and wasted time comes *directly* out of their pocket unlike someone goofing off at the office while on the clock. My coach simply has a sign up stating that cancellations less than a day in advance will be charged. It's really about respect for another's time. With the proliferation of cell phones today, there really is no excuse.

I actually don't have a cell phone!! :) Don't like those things!

And welcome to the forums JohnK. We are happy to have you join us. :D While I disagree about cell phones, it's definitely important to have a coach/dance instructor to clearly set up expectations right from the outset, as yours does.

[JohnK]

Hi Sagitta, thanks for the welcome.

I'm no real fan of cell phones myself. I guess I was reacting to DanceMentor's note about cancelling via email. I'd like to believe courtesy demands you attempt to speak to your coach (or any "cancellee" for that matter) in person, an email is pretty lame.

BTW, is it normal to have to log in EVERY time I try to post a reply or new thread? My computer seems to be refusing to "remember this password for every log-in"...

[SDsalsaguy]

I understand where you're coming from JohnK, and, as a general policy, see nothing wrong with it. I just wanted to leave a little bit of leeway for catastrophic type events, i.e. avoid the "Oh, I'm sorry your mother just passed away... but you know my cancellation policy. I'm really sorry, but you didn't give me 24 hour notice so I have to charge you. Oh yeah, my condolence." (:YUCK:)

P.S. Welcome to the Forums! :D

[Sagitta]

I agree that a phone call is important and that emails are impersonal. I do first the phone call, and if no-one picks I alsos end an email to do my best to make sure that my instructor finds out as soon as possible.

As for logging in...Once you log-in you shouldn't have to repeatedly log-in each time, unless you log out of your posts. I have had a problem with logging in last year where I logged out, and I couldn't log back in as the list of members at the bottom of the screen was showing my username. What worked was shutting down all my browser windows and reopening an internet browser, then going to df once again.

Try this out and see if it helps.

[pygmalion]

Hi Sagitta, thanks for the welcome.

I'm no real fan of cell phones myself. I guess I was reacting to DanceMentor's note about cancelling via email. I'd like to believe courtesy demands you attempt to speak to your coach (or any "cancellee" for that matter) in person, an email is pretty lame.


I guess it's a matter of personal preference. My former coach and I exchanged ZERO phone messages. I mean none, in over a year of lessons. He and I just both happen to be better at email communication -- I hate phones, period, and he was religious about keeping up with his emails a couple times a day.

If I had any communicating to do with him, email was always the better way. So I guess it depends on the people involved.

[KevinL]

My official policy is that I need 24 hours notice, or the lesson is charged. I'm flexible, though, I've never actually used that clause.

Kevin

[Larinda McRaven]

We have a very comfortalbe relationship and understanding with the majority of our students. My schedule varies wildly and I am not the best organzer so I end up missing appointments or cancelling at the last minute too.

I always say that I owe them a lesson for free when I screw up, and I hope that they understand that the same is expected from them, they should pay me when they cancel last minute. I have never stated this out loud, it just seems to be understood.

There have been students in the past that are habitual cancellers, dns'ers, and late-comers. We do not charge them when they don't show up, nor take them over the hour when they are late. We simply begin to call them and schedule them less and less and they will phase themselves out eventually. I can't say that we have done this intentionally, it is just "out of sight out of mind".

This obviouslly does not go over very well if you are working for a studio, and your boss expects you to call and book everyone all the time. The boss spent money on advertsing that brought the student in and expects a teacher to provide a return on that investment, so letting students slide away is NOT economical.

For us, we run our own business, it still is NOT economical, but we have other priorities. When people show that little respect for our time, they really don't belong on our schedule. The really dedicated students that understands what we have to offer and are interested in our information show up. Pretty simple.

[Vince A]

I always say that I owe them a lesson for free when I screw up, and I hope that they understand that the same is expected from them, they should pay me when they cancel last minute. I have never stated this out loud, it just seems to be understood.
I personally believe that the above should be law - with no exceptions. I also abide by this . . . and there have been times when I've taken a scheduled a class, and at the last minute had to cancel for a "real" reason. And I did pay - gladly!

Even for those of us that teach and recieve a fee for thier services, this applies!

This past Saturday, I had a Lindy class with d nice (Damon Stone), and I had a computer malfunction in my new truck while enroute and had to turn around, and go home to reset it - my computer in the truck is adjustable!

I called Damon and said I was needed to cancel . . . telling him about what happened, and if I started now, I'd be an hour late. Fortunately for me, he had another student at 2 who was already there, and he switched me from 1 to 2:00. A "real" emergency, but not within the 24 hour time line.

However, I would have paid him for the missed lesson if I had missed it altogether.

[KevinL]

I always say that I owe them a lesson for free when I screw up, and I hope that they understand that the same is expected from them, they should pay me when they cancel last minute. I have never stated this out loud, it just seems to be understood.

I do this as well. I once gave out coupons for a free replacement class (so basically $10 off the next time they signed up) to a group when I was late, and that was due to traffic.

Kevin

[ahem]

he invited his coaches from England and quoted a price higher than his competitors, he pushed us and other few couples to take lessons from that master on Sunday, we know another teacher books the same English master with a much reasonable price, plus Sunday morning isn't really a great time for us because we had to go to a comp Sat night and return to NY Sunday morning, so not good suffering tiredness on road while taking expensive lessons from coaches.

The student's view of the situation makes sense.

We decided to cancel Sunday lessons and focus on the compOops, that's going to be difficult for the hosting teacher. The guest still needs to be paid.

While I notified him Wednesday for Sunday lessons cancellation, he freaked outNot surprising - who wouldn't when suddenly having to cover a few hundred dollars shortfall?

he texted me nasty words such as "forgot about bloody stupid college comp, come to take lessons..." and he even used "F" words in text (won't repeat here)Unfortunate and counterproductive behavior.

finally he sent me ultimatum that we have to find couples to replace our lessons slots Sunday morning or we have to pay cash for the lessons that we won't be able to take. If you had originally booked the lessons (as you seem to imply you had) that actually doesn't sound entirely unreasonable. It was the emotional outburst that was unreasonable.

I found a couple who's willing to switch their coach lessons from Saturday to Sunday our slots. I thought I'm done, the teacher should be happy, but he said that's not good enough, I just "moved" his couple, now I have to find another couples to fill Saturday that couples' empty slotsTrue, all you did was move the empty slots to Saturday. That might make them easier to fill, but it doesn't actually fill them.

It sounds like you may have had other issues with this coach, and that may complicate your feelings about this incident. But the story, as you've described it, really does have two legitimate viewpoints and it's somewhat unfortunate that there's been no recognition in the responses posted to your complaint that the teacher also had reason to feel wronged.

[mamboqueen]

If the cancellation policy for a coaching is different than it is for regular lessons (most I know have 24 hour policy) then that needed to be communicated when the coachings were booked. I don't think it's unreasonable to cancel on Wednesday for Sunday's coachings if there is a valid reason. If a teacher is going to insist on a student paying for the coachings with a few days' cancellation notice, then I'd be hardpressed to schedule the coachings until the last minute...and if he's unavailable, so be it.

[ahem]

If the cancellation policy for a coaching is different than it is for regular lessons (most I know have 24 hour policy) then that needed to be communicated when the coachings were booked. I don't think it's unreasonable to cancel on Wednesday for Sunday's coachings if there is a valid reason. If a teacher is going to insist on a student paying for the coachings with a few days' cancellation notice, then I'd be hardpressed to schedule the coachings until the last minute...and if he's unavailable, so be it.

I believe that in a situation like this you simply have to consider fundamental fairness of both sides. A 24 hour cancellation on a guest lesson is simply not workable without a substitute available, and that should be obvious enough to all concerned that it does not need to be said. It is harsh to say that the student has to pay for lessons they cannot take, and that may not be the right answer either, but both parties really must respect that an obligation has been incurred and must somehow be resolved.

You could complicate life by writing legal contracts, but it is more realistic to operate on a basis of mutual trust and respect. When that is there the parties can often be more understanding than a contract would permit. But if trust and respect for the each other's practical situation fails they should not sue each other, they should just stop working together. Looks like that happened. Dancing between real dancers operates by being willing to risk a substantial but not gigantic amount of money in the probability that the other party will hold up their end of the implied understanding. Perhaps some day you get burned, but in the meantime you get to enjoy a more humane relationship between student and teacher, and if some day you do get burned you learn not to trust the other person any more and move on.

The problem is not that Standard dancer got upset with this teacher and decided not to deal with him any more. The problem is the lack of recognition in the forums that the teacher also has every reason to feel wronged.

[mamboqueen]

I agree...I just think the cancellation policy needs to be communicated so that the end result here wouldn't happen to begin with. I really wouldn't chalk up anything to being obvious. If you go to a store and they don't tell you or publish their re-stocking fee, would it be obvious? If the policy is clear, then there should be no hard feelings.

[NielsenE]

I'm more used to 48-hour cancellation policies for visiting coaches. Of course in this case it sounds like about 96 hours was given (wednesday to sunday). I'd say that puts the onus completely on the teacher.

[mamboqueen]

BTW, welcome aboard, ahem. Are you a teacher by chance?

[etp777]

Welcome Ahem

And while I certainly support a reasonable cancellation policy, I don't support swwearing at the student about a cancellation. I'd walk out the door right then.

[ahem]

I'm more used to 48-hour cancellation policies for visiting coaches. Of course in this case it sounds like about 96 hours was given (wednesday to sunday). I'd say that puts the onus completely on the teacher.

Situation may be different in a more commercial studio where it may be easier to sell to substitutes.

In the type of situation concerned in this incident where the market is entirely professional and amateur couples, it can sometimes be very hard to fill the schedule in the first place, let alone find replacements after everyone interested has booked what they can afford.

But it would be useful to know why the cost was different for the same teacher on the same trip with two different hosts in the same area.

[standardgirl]

I've once tried to cancel a Sunday coaching lesson on the Wednesday before and was told that I couldn't cancel due to the short notice. I was not happy b/c that's more than 72 hours of notice (plus, the reason for the cancellation had to do with the location of the coaching lesson - there was a change of location that we just got informed on Tuesday! ;)). At the end luckily we were able to work something out, so there wasn't any real problem, but still, I would probably not book another coaching lesson through this person in the future. No cancellation policy was communicated when I booked the lesson, of course. I guess, I should've asked what the policy is, but oh well...

btw, I personally think that 24 hrs is the usual notification period, but I tried to stick with 72 hrs especially when it involves visiting coaches. Anyone heard of anything longer than a 72-hr notification?

[ahem]

btw, I personally think that 24 hrs is the usual notification period, but I tried to stick with 72 hrs especially when it involves visiting coaches. Anyone heard of anything longer than a 72-hr notification?

I feel that if you get to the point of agreeing on the scheduled time for a guest lesson, you have incurred an obligation to the host which you cannot unilaterally cancel. Hopefully the parties can work together to find a resolution - ideally to fill the spot. But you can't just walk out on something like that and leave the host to pay the guest out of their own pocket. It's not the same as taking a lesson with a local teacher where they might be able to do something else with their own extra time.

[SDsalsaguy]

I feel that if you get to the point of agreeing on the scheduled time for a guest lesson, you have incurred an obligation to the host which you cannot unilaterally cancel. Hopefully the parties can work together to find a resolution - ideally to fill the spot. But you can't just walk out on something like that and leave the host to pay the guest out of their own pocket. It's not the same as taking a lesson with a local teacher where they might be able to do something else with their own extra time.
I don't disagree at all ahem (welcome to DF by the way!), but I think that more that giving 72 hours notice is reasonable, especially if the students hadn't been told anything otherwise.

(The rest of that teacher's conduct speaks for itself.)

[CANI]

I feel that if you get to the point of agreeing on the scheduled time for a guest lesson, you have incurred an obligation to the host which you cannot unilaterally cancel. Hopefully the parties can work together to find a resolution - ideally to fill the spot. But you can't just walk out on something like that and leave the host to pay the guest out of their own pocket. It's not the same as taking a lesson with a local teacher where they might be able to do something else with their own extra time.

I agree. No amount of advance notice relieves the student's obligation in my opinion. If the student, or the teacher, can find another substitute, that would be ideal. If not, the student, IMO, remains obligated for the fee. I'm a student and this is what I would do (even in event of death in family, family emergency, being called out of town on business, etc.)

[ahem]

I agree. No amount of advance notice relieves the student's obligation in my opinion.

Exactly - notice by itself is not sufficient. What is needed is understanding of the situation this puts the host in, and working with them to resolve it.

I'm a student and this is what I would do (even in event of death in family, family emergency, being called out of town on business, etc.)

If being called out of town on business becomes an issue, the company can better well pay for it. Or I'm not going.

[jerseydancer]

Exactly - notice by itself is not sufficient. What is needed is understanding of the situation this puts the host in, and working with them to resolve it.



If being called out of town on business becomes an issue, the company can better well pay for it. Or I'm not going.

This all depends if you want to keep your job and pay for the missed lesson, or loose your job and not be able to pay for any lessons in the future.

But I agree, there should be cancellation notice. Sometimes, teachers do not mind just to have a make up lesson another day in addition to the one we normally schedule.

[jerseydancer]

Let me ask you another question: We have scheduled the lessons, took time off work (I had to negotiate with my manager that someone else will cover my business trip that week), and the visiting coach canceled the trip. Now I cannot go back and give my time off vback, so I have just waisted three days off and it is too late to schedule anything else for this time. Who pays for that?

[emeralddancer]

or cancellations by pros at last minute.

[CANI]

Let me ask you another question: We have scheduled the lessons, took time off work (I had to negotiate with my manager that someone else will cover my business trip that week), and the visiting coach canceled the trip. Now I cannot go back and give my time off vback, so I have just waisted three days off and it is too late to schedule anything else for this time. Who pays for that?

In my opinion, the 'unwritten' agreement of the visiting coach is to give you a lesson in exchange for money. Since the coach didn't give you the lesson, and you didn't, therefore, (I assume) give him/her money, IMO the obligations as far as money have been met.

If I were in that situation, in the absence of any information, I would again schedule time with that coach next time he/she were available and chalk it up to the unfortunate circumstances that come up in life. I agree vacation is very precious...and to 'waste', for lack of a better word, that time due to someone else canceling would be very unfortunate.

There are so many situations that come up...some can be resolved...others the only way is to talk with your feet by going elsewhere.

To answer the next post about pros cancelling last minute...again, a judgment call. For me, if it repeatedly happened, without good reason, I'd walk. My time is too precious and life too short.

[Warren J. Dew]

btw, I personally think that 24 hrs is the usual notification period, but I tried to stick with 72 hrs especially when it involves visiting coaches. Anyone heard of anything longer than a 72-hr notification?

For what it's worth, I've committed to paying for lessons from a visiting pro 3 months in advance, no refund allowed. The person organizing it needed enough commitments before bringing him over.

[SDsalsaguy]

For what it's worth, I've committed to paying for lessons from a visiting pro 3 months in advance, no refund allowed. The person organizing it needed enough commitments before bringing him over.
As long as that's made clear up front, it makes perfect sense.

[Standarddancer]

Let me ask you another question: We have scheduled the lessons, took time off work (I had to negotiate with my manager that someone else will cover my business trip that week), and the visiting coach canceled the trip. Now I cannot go back and give my time off vback, so I have just waisted three days off and it is too late to schedule anything else for this time. Who pays for that?

excellent point!!! the students' time is valuable too. Especially for working folks have only limited amount of vacation/sickdays.

[dancingirldancing]

Welcome Ahem

And while I certainly support a reasonable cancellation policy, I don't support swwearing at the student about a cancellation. I'd walk out the door right then.


Agreed. I am more willing to pay if someone does not cussed at me !

[Larinda McRaven]

The problem is not that Standard dancer got upset with this teacher and decided not to deal with him any more. The problem is the lack of recognition in the forums that the teacher also has every reason to feel wronged.

Thank you ahem, we try to be reasonable here and sometimes it takes someone standing up and saying "Hey we don't know the other side of the story!" Thanks for reminding us.

And welcome!

[dancepro]

If the cancellation policy for a coaching is different than it is for regular lessons (most I know have 24 hour policy) then that needed to be communicated when the coachings were booked. I don't think it's unreasonable to cancel on Wednesday for Sunday's coachings if there is a valid reason. If a teacher is going to insist on a student paying for the coachings with a few days' cancellation notice, then I'd be hardpressed to schedule the coachings until the last minute...and if he's unavailable, so be it.

For a local teacher this is not a problem with a 24 hour cancellation policy. I do think we are talking about an out of town/country coach here. The problem with a 24 hour cancellation police is that for out of town coaches airline tickets, hotel, meals and lesson fee is booked a long time ahead of time and all have to be covered no matter what. When I have had coaches in from England I always have the couples pay two weeks before. I also have a waiting list set up, so that if a couple can't make it there will be others to step in. It would however be a problem if there are so many coaches in that there is no break for the couples to make the money to pay for the coaches. I do think this is the problem in this case.

Dancepro

[etp777]

Yeaeh, I know on rare occasions when something comes up for studnets in studio that they have to cancel, most times can find another student who wanted spot and can fill it. few rare cases where that didn't happen, one of pro couples took advantage of the spot. Of course, that benefits all us students anyway, as better they are as dancers, better they are teaching us. Well, more they have to teach us anwyay. not necessarily better teachers. ;)

[mamboqueen]

For a local teacher this is not a problem with a 24 hour cancellation policy. I do think we are talking about an out of town/country coach here. The problem with a 24 hour cancellation police is that for out of town coaches airline tickets, hotel, meals and lesson fee is booked a long time ahead of time and all have to be covered no matter what. When I have had coaches in from England I always have the couples pay two weeks before. I also have a waiting list set up, so that if a couple can't make it there will be others to step in. It would however be a problem if there are so many coaches in that there is no break for the couples to make the money to pay for the coaches. I do think this is the problem in this case.

Dancepro

Completely understanable, dp. Perhaps the wise thing to do (as someone mentioned above) is to require payment when the lesson is booked. Or, alternatively, just tell the students that if they cancel, no matter when, they are required to pay.

[Joe]

I agree. No amount of advance notice relieves the student's obligation in my opinion. If the student, or the teacher, can find another substitute, that would be ideal. If not, the student, IMO, remains obligated for the fee. I'm a student and this is what I would do (even in event of death in family, family emergency, being called out of town on business, etc.)
What would you do if you were obligated to pay for that hour and discovered that the booking teacher had filled your slot with someone else?

[cornutt]

Completely understanable, dp. Perhaps the wise thing to do (as someone mentioned above) is to require payment when the lesson is booked. Or, alternatively, just tell the students that if they cancel, no matter when, they are required to pay.

The problem with that is, it encourages everyone to wait until the last minute to book. Other than maybe having a choice of time slots, there is no upside to booking earlier. I sometimes have to travel for business on short notice. If my studio had a "no cancellations, no nothing" policy, I'd never book a coaching.

[mamboqueen]

The problem with that is, it encourages everyone to wait until the last minute to book. Other than maybe having a choice of time slots, there is no upside to booking earlier. I sometimes have to travel for business on short notice. If my studio had a "no cancellations, no nothing" policy, I'd never book a coaching.

I agree...and it's precisely what I would do. I guess as long as there is clear communication on the policy, there shouldn't be any problems. I think most reasonable people can try to work something out. I don't think it's good for a teacher, a coach or a student to have ill feelings on something gone awry. After this whole line of conversation started, it will definitely make me inquire before booking a coaching, though. I feel if I give short notice, I should pay for it...but I think there needs to be a reasonable time where you can cancel if it's necessary.

[CANI]

What would you do if you were obligated to pay for that hour and discovered that the booking teacher had filled your slot with someone else?


Hi Joe – It depends on what I’d agreed to upfront. If nothing had been discussed, I feel obligated to pay the fee. If I need to cancel, I’d probably approach the host, ask if we could agree that if I, or if s/he, found a replacement, I wouldn’t need to pay because they weren’t out any money. If s/he agreed, if a substitute were found, I wouldn’t be paying.

If the upfront agreement was, “If you cancel within xx period, you pay the full fee.” Then, I would pay the full fee and it doesn’t matter if they found a replacement, because that is what I agreed to upfront. I understand the need for consistent policies in certain instances to run a business smoothly.

There are other ways that the situation you pose could evolve that would result in me feeling like I’d been treated unfairly, and in such a case, if a discussion couldn’t resolve it, I wouldn’t continue doing business with the person.

[dancepro]

Completely understanable, dp. Perhaps the wise thing to do (as someone mentioned above) is to require payment when the lesson is booked. Or, alternatively, just tell the students that if they cancel, no matter when, they are required to pay.

When I have had coaches in the students receive a letter where it is all written out clearly. That lessons are to be paid before hand, that there is no refund unless stand in is found and what the price per lesson are. Once they have then booked, they get another letter with the amount due and the due date.

Of cause this is a lot of work for somebody, in my case my assistant, but this way of doing it seems to work.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Dancepro

[mamboqueen]

When I have had coaches in the students receive a letter where it is all written out clearly. That lessons are to be paid before hand, that there is no refund unless stand in is found and what the price per lesson are. Once they have then booked, they get another letter with the amount due and the due date.

Of cause this is a lot of work for somebody, in my case my assistant, but this way of doing it seems to work.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Dancepro

And I think it is perfect so there is no misunderstanding or bad feelings. I would think once you had this in the system once, it wouldn't be that onerous to repeat (a la form letter). Honestly, as a customer of any sort, that is the kind of proactive policy I like. You find out everything up front. It is work, imo, that is worth it in the long run.

[dancepro]

Hi Joe – It depends on what I’d agreed to upfront. If nothing had been discussed, I feel obligated to pay the fee. If I need to cancel, I’d probably approach the host, ask if we could agree that if I, or if s/he, found a replacement, I wouldn’t need to pay because they weren’t out any money. If s/he agreed, if a substitute were found, I wouldn’t be paying.

If the upfront agreement was, “If you cancel within xx period, you pay the full fee.” Then, I would pay the full fee and it doesn’t matter if they found a replacement, because that is what I agreed to upfront. I understand the need for consistent policies in certain instances to run a business smoothly.

There are other ways that the situation you pose could evolve that would result in me feeling like I’d been treated unfairly, and in such a case, if a discussion couldn’t resolve it, I wouldn’t continue doing business with the person.

Yes, I totally agree that making sure everybody is aware of the policy, helps clear any ill feeling either way.

I personally feel that if a substitute is found in time to fill up the time slot, then the student would get a refund. That is just my opinion.

Dancepro

[dancepro]

And I think it is perfect so there is no misunderstanding or bad feelings. I would think once you had this in the system once, it wouldn't be that onerous to repeat (a la form letter). Honestly, as a customer of any sort, that is the kind of proactive policy I like. You find out everything up front. It is work, imo, that is worth it in the long run.

Yes, it is just a form letter where dates and names are changed. I have found it is well worth paying my assistant to do that. It really is not a lot of work to do it like that.

Dancepro

[standardgirl]

If the upfront agreement was, “If you cancel within xx period, you pay the full fee.” Then, I would pay the full fee and it doesn’t matter if they found a replacement, because that is what I agreed to upfront. I understand the need for consistent policies in certain instances to run a business smoothly.


Well, except in this case, the students may try to find replacement couples themselves rather than trying to re-book through the teacher/studio. What's even more counter-intuitive is that in this case, it almost encourage the student not to give any advance notice for not being able to make a coaching lesson since it provides virtually no difference.

Personally, I think that as long as the cancellation is understood and agreed by both parties upfront, it is OK. With the exception that if the canceling student can find a substitute for the time slot, he/she should not be charged since it doesn't affect the studio. I also believe that this is what most studios would do, if for no other reason, just to keep the good words for the business.

[dlgodud]

Most of studios, I believe they have a 24 hour cancellation policy. But, if I need to cancel a lesson, which it rarely happens to me and usually try to change another appointments, I would try to give my notice a few days earlier,so he can have another students for the hour.
That's one of a small thing I can do for my teacher and show my respect. I don't know what to say if some people they don't do that, but I believe it is necessary you'd better talk to the person about the cancellation policy.

[cornutt]

Since we had a thread merger, I'll go back and pick up some previous topics. For regular lessons, it is entirely fair that if the student doesn't show and doesn't call beforehand, they should pay. Now, instructors know their individual students and they know who is a habitual no-show and who isn't, so they can handle individual situations as they see fit. As Larinda pointed out in one of the old posts, sometimes things happen on the instructor's end too, so give and take is often called for. But in general, I think a 24-hour cancellation policy is perfectly reasonable.

For visiting instructors and coaches, it gets a bit trickier. Studios have to commit in advance to book them, and some have to be paid in advance. On the other hand, as we've already discussed above, a hard and fast no-cancellations policy only encourages students to wait until the last minute to commit. There's basically two ways to handle this. The studio can just be flexible, which might be the best approach if most of the students who sign up for these coaches are regulars and good customers generally. Or, the studio can establish some sort of policy, which might work better if there are a lot of walk-ins and irregulars. If there is a long-lead cancellation policy or no-cancellation policy, then the studio needs to offer discounts or other advantages for early booking. Another approach might be to accept, say, a 20% non-refundable deposit for early booking, with the balance payable at the completion of the lesson. Late bookings pay 100% nonrefundable at the time they book.

Now, here's a related but trickier question: does your studio have a minimum attendance for group classes? If a public (that is, published on the studio's calendar and open to everyone) group is scheduled, but only one couple shows up, does the studio cancel the class? Or does the one couple that showed up get what amounts to a cheap private?

[Chris Stratton]

a hard and fast no-cancellations policy only encourages students to wait until the last minute to commit.

I think that's only true if the students are only marginally interested in lessons with the guest teacher, or if the local market is over-saturated with such opportunities.

Otherwise there should be a fear that if you didn't book fairly soon after the call goes out that you might not get the lessons you want.

A lot of the problems here sound like over-saturation of opportunity making something that should be a special opportunity routine enough that it no longer gets quite the respect it's supposed to have.

[etp777]

Yeah, I know when we bring coaches in, two in particular, they're always fully booked almost immediately. Part of reason I signed up for choreography last night as soon as FP mentioned she was going to call this coach to see when he could come in next.

[cornutt]

A lot of the problems here sound like over-saturation of opportunity making something that should be a special opportunity routine enough that it no longer gets quite the respect it's supposed to have.

Well, I don't know if "respect" is the right word; it's just market conditions. Where I live it's a relatively small market.

If I had to pay, say, a month in advance for coachings, I'd never be able to take one. My business travel schedule isn't stable enough for me to be able to know a month in advance that I won't be on travel that week. It's about all I can do to schedule one vacation a year.

[scotttocs]

I've once tried to cancel a Sunday coaching lesson on the Wednesday before and was told that I couldn't cancel due to the short notice. I was not happy b/c that's more than 72 hours of notice (plus, the reason for the cancellation had to do with the location of the coaching lesson - there was a change of location that we just got informed on Tuesday! ;)).

One thing no-one noted here in the discussion was the change from the coach as well.

Living without a car, I'm very careful to make sure I schedule things when & where I can get tot hem.

If I scheduled a lesson for 10AM in Manhattan - no problem, I can take a subway, i can take a cab, I'm at most half an hour away in normal traffic.

That lesson gets moved to a studio in New Jersey? Now I have a major problem, I'm now probably at *LEAST* an hour away, and I don't know how to get there - I may have to rent a car, etc.

The situation put forth by StandardGirl was:
Lesson - 4 days "By the way, the lesson isn't where we originally told you it was it is somewhere else"
Lesson - 3 days "Spoke with my partner, taking the new location into account, taking that lesson is no longer really possible for us"

Not that this changes *everything* else, it in no way alleviates the problem of paying for a visiting coach. I just wanted to point out that there was, in this case, more than *just* the question of "reasonable notice period"

[jerseydancer]

One thing no-one noted here in the discussion was the change from the coach as well.

Living without a car, I'm very careful to make sure I schedule things when & where I can get tot hem.

If I scheduled a lesson for 10AM in Manhattan - no problem, I can take a subway, i can take a cab, I'm at most half an hour away in normal traffic.

That lesson gets moved to a studio in New Jersey? Now I have a major problem, I'm now probably at *LEAST* an hour away, and I don't know how to get there - I may have to rent a car, etc.

The situation put forth by StandardGirl was:
Lesson - 4 days "By the way, the lesson isn't where we originally told you it was it is somewhere else"
Lesson - 3 days "Spoke with my partner, taking the new location into account, taking that lesson is no longer really possible for us"

Not that this changes *everything* else, it in no way alleviates the problem of paying for a visiting coach. I just wanted to point out that there was, in this case, more than *just* the question of "reasonable notice period"

I completely missed that point. Than 72 hours are very fair deal.

[ahem]

The situation put forth by StandardGirl was:
Lesson - 4 days "By the way, the lesson isn't where we originally told you it was it is somewhere else"

Where did you see that written?

[CANI]

Where did you see that written?

Hi Ahem - It is post #23. The post you originally commented on was from standarddancer. This person is commenting on a different situation posted by standardgirl. I got confused until I re-read.

[ahem]

Hi Ahem - It is post #23. The post you originally commented on was from standarddancer. This person is commenting on a different situation posted by standardgirl. I got confused until I re-read.

Yes, confusing, sorry.

[waltzgirl]

Now, here's a related but trickier question: does your studio have a minimum attendance for group classes? If a public (that is, published on the studio's calendar and open to everyone) group is scheduled, but only one couple shows up, does the studio cancel the class? Or does the one couple that showed up get what amounts to a cheap private?

At my studio, they've had two policies. For a while, if fewer than 4 people showed up for a 50 minute class, they ran it as a half-hour semi-private which might or might not cover the same material as planned for the class (for the regular group rate).

But now, they go ahead and do the class even if only one student shows up. Not sure why they changed, except there's been some new competition in the area, so may be trying to improve customer service.

[wooh]

Now, here's a related but trickier question: does your studio have a minimum attendance for group classes? If a public (that is, published on the studio's calendar and open to everyone) group is scheduled, but only one couple shows up, does the studio cancel the class? Or does the one couple that showed up get what amounts to a cheap private?

Considering I'm about an hour from most studios I'd take a lesson at, if I shown up for a group lesson, the studio had better not cancel it without notice (barring some sort of emergency.) If nobody else shows up, give the lesson and cancel it next time. But I can guarantee that if you cancel it without notice, I won't ever make the trek for another lesson of yours. Not thinking one couple is worth holding the class that day is going to cost you any possiblity of future money from this couple.:) Now if it's the first class, I can see cancelling any future ones in that series after a low turnout for the first one. But if people go through the trouble of showing up, I find it totally unprofessional to cancel because it wasn't enough people for you.

[JANATHOME]

Interesting topic...
I have to wonder if it has anything to do with how long a person has been taking lessons... For me I understand the value of a lesson, know what the market price is and consider if I had to cancel at short notice that I was the one that caused a coach or instructor lost revenue, it is on me.

As Larinda posted earlier there is give and take between a coach who on occasion has to cancel on short notice so it all evens out.... Still if I was the one that missed a lesson I always offer to pay for the time lost, if the coach says dont worry about it I dont, if they take my check I give it up....

Last month we had a situation... In our studio we had a traveling coach. They cancelled her group class to fit us in... Husband got really sick, I thought he cancelled, he thought I did... An hour before the lesson we figured out we had not cancelled... Called the stuido and told them we wil not be there but will pay for the session... In a hour they put the group class back together and we paid the difference between the income of the group class and our session.... We were really happy that they only charged us for the difference... not to mention how really embarrased we were about the whole thing.

[tanya_the_dancer]

The place where I take group classes has a policy that group classes are cancelled when fewer than 4 people show up. Sometimes the teacher allows everyone split the extra cost (so the class becomes $13 instead of $10), sometimes it just gets cancelled. Also, the regulars for some of the classes formed an e-mail chain to make sure that there are enough peole for the class that day.

IME, around here people tend to be flexible with cancellations. We had a situation once, when there was a massive (18 inches overnight) snowstorm on one of the days when visiting coach was in town. So quite a few of his lessons on that day got cancelled and nobody got charged.