Improved techniques = Reduced flava......True or False?

[salsachinita]

Ok, before I get shot for posting this, let me explain (this is kinda my thoughts continuing the thread I posted ealier "Fun vs. Techniques"):

How many times have you heard things like: "So & so is a great dancer, but she/he takes classes." ?

If one is technique focused, does it automatically means that the flava side gets neglected?

Those who are recognised out there for having flava, does that mean their techniques are somewhat inferior?

Can both coexist in equality, or does one have to give way to the other?

If I decide to pursuit on improving my techniques, do I run a risk of reducing/tainting/altering the flava I've already had.....?

What do my DF family members think.......?

[Sagitta]

False!! By taking classes I've been able to focus on eliminating moves from other dances, such as swing, that creep into salsa. I don't think that learning technique takes away from the flava side at all!

[SDsalsaguy]

I think it’s basically a prioritization issue. There are some who privilege personal technique over connecting and dancing with their partner while there are others who prioritize technique to enhance such connections.

Some of these comments may also be about integration…when one first learns something new – in this case technique – it is a deliberate, conscious process of application and execution. Inevitably this looks like what it is and lacks the organicism and flow of conscious processes of applications. With time, practice, and exposure, however, conscious techniques are mastered and become unconscious ones integrated into muscle memory. At this point the dance is again organic but at an even higher “level” of technical execution.*




*Assuming, of course, that one ever takes the initiative to actually make the dancing their own. If not, then they remain technical automatons and, indeed, end up mistaking technical expertise for artistic expression.

[youngsta]

Yeah SD hit it on the head. Once the technique is incorporated into your dancing it becomes a non-factor, the 'flava' and technique coexist in peace and harmony :lol:

[salsachinita]

Thanks, SD :D !

I needed to hear it.........

Still going through some kind of transition :oops: ......sometimes I feel like I have SO much catching up to do, since I had a five-year break from dancing before my come-back two years ago.

My love & passion is always gonna be there, but time & again I need some kind of re-assurance.

Thanks, guys.

[SDsalsaguy]

Anytime salsachinita... :D

[David]

Ok, before I get shot for posting this, let me explain (this is kinda my thoughts continuing the thread I posted ealier "Fun vs. Techniques"):

How many times have you heard things like: "So & so is a great dancer, but she/he takes classes." ?

Never. Why should that be something to be ashamed of?

I would say it should be the other way around, if you care so little about dancing that you really couldn't be bothered with improving then why are you still going out to the clubs? There might be something on TV that perhaps they'll never play again.

If one is technique focused, does it automatically means that the flava side gets neglected? (...)

Flava? What on earth is that? Last time I heard it was a marketing name used by a fast food company for a type of roll which had chicken and salad.

[salsachinita]

Flava? What on earth is that? Last time I heard it was a marketing name used by a fast food company for a type of roll which had chicken and salad.

When we speak of 'flava', we speak of "sabor". It's a Spanish term which directly translated as 'flavour'. It basically means the little something special we add to our salsa dancing to make it our own.

Please read "The Flava of Salsa" under 'articles' and also "More on Developing Flava" under 'salsa'.

If you do a search you would find more............

[borikensalsero]

By no means does technique water down flava. Just like flava shouldn't water-down technique. The beauty is to be able to blend them both to a perfect mix.

For example, sometimes you hear 2 bands they all have the same instruments, same technique yet, one is definitely more flavor-full than the other. One might end up sounding bland and too "straight-lined" where as the other doesn't. They have just added a tad of flava to their music, hence caused the band to be that much better, yet using the same instruments and the same techniques to play salsa. The same happens to dancers... It really isn't how much a dancers knows but how he uses what he knows.

[SDsalsaguy]

It really isn't how much a dancers knows but how he uses what he knows.
Very well said boriken! :D

[salsachinita]

It really isn't how much a dancers knows but how he uses what he knows.
Very well said boriken! :D

:notworth: As always :notworth: ...........

[africana]

(sorry guys i just keep digging up these great old old topics)
Anyhow I have been thinking a lot about this very topic lately!! I do agree that certain technique takes a while to incorporate into one's natural body language (nicely put SD, Boriken) but there are certain partnering technique that just never seem to absorb ANY flava no matter how much one has practiced or done them i.e. they still look and feel "ballroom-ish"
anyone else feel this?

For me there are certain turns/turn-patterns where I just completely focus on following technique and start to feel like I lost a lil somethin-something ;)
hmmm now I'm thinking that maybe
"already knowing the move (anticipation)" = flava and
"true following"=reduced flava

(yes give it up for the dance math equations :D )

[TheLetterJ]

I believe "flava" is your own interpretation of the music based on your emotions. Learning moves comes first, then adding technique, then adding style and flava. And if you're so comfortable doing a certain move, make it different every time you do it. Some creative styling here and there. It makes it so much more fun.

Oh one more thing, this is where body isolation comes in, as a leader I can still have a smooth lead with my arms, but my legs, and body can be moving to a different rhythm or style. Same goes for followers, who can maintain the connection while still expressing herself in creative ways.

[hopelessly_addicted]

(sorry guys i just keep digging up these great old old topics)

Heya Africana :) I'm so glad that someone else in the forum also systematically go through old threads :wink: (this has become my past time habit now :oops: ) I think it's great.. there are so many jewels out there..


For me there are certain turns/turn-patterns where I just completely focus on following technique and start to feel like I lost a lil somethin-something ;)

Hmm getting the technique right = low level flava, getting that "lil something something" right = high level flava..?!?

[Kindra]

By taking classes I've been able to focus on eliminating moves from other dances, such as swing, that creep into salsa.

Sagitta- Were you specifically talking about patterns?

I think most people who have an extensive background in dance (whether it be in ballroom, swing, modern, ballet, african, belly...whathaveyou) can utilize all the knowledge gained- styling included-to enhance their "flava" in salsa. No??
Every now and then I find the music motivates me to move in a way that would remind me of "moves" I learned in an african dance class, or swing (for example)...while dancing salsa. Those little things give me MY "flava"...as it is apart of what my body expresses naturally.

Just a thought...

Oh...and I haven't posted in awhile.... Hi everyone! :)

[Leah]

hi kindra! :)


where were you???? :wink:

[africana]

hey welcome back Kindra :) I agree, I'm very into afro-influenced styling

ooh hopeless I do like the term "hi-level flava" 8) and I always need more ;)

But I was mostly referring to certain technique that when performed "correctly" end up giving one a homogeneous look that every other dancer has, and thus loses the individual flair...make sense?

There's also the approval problem, where advanced dancers collectively enforce a certain way of performing certain moves so that a lead or follow attributes "advanced" by whether or not you perform the move according to the ruling standard or style. it's a peer pressure of sorts, and I see it quite a bit

[hopelessly_addicted]

But I was mostly referring to certain technique that when performed "correctly" end up giving one a homogeneous look that every other dancer has, and thus loses the individual flair...make sense?

Ahhh I see.. you're talking about those "clones" :wink:
I have been sort of cautious of taking the popular styling classes in town because I didn't want to end up looking like everyone else... perhaps this is more of a styling matter than technique in general. I'd rather really get down to the basics techniques and learn them well instead of learning set of stylings. I'm taking a more relaxed approach to salsa. If I'm ready do do some styling (once I'm really really comfortable with everything else), I believe my natural styling would come out.

[Pacion]

I have been sort of cautious of taking the popular styling classes in town because I didn't want to end up looking like everyone else... perhaps this is more of a styling matter than technique in general.

Or, you could see it as learning the styling and then taking what you want, disregarding/"throwing out" what you don't want, and making it your own :wink:

I have seen dancers that if I just look at their bodies are doing, I can "see" certain famous salsa teachers. On the occassions when I asked those dancers who they did/had classes with, it turned out to be the teachers I "saw". In the nicest possible way, those dancers were now clones of those teachers rather than dancers who had studied "technique"/"styling" and made it their own. I think I heard somewhere or read somewhere that for someone to "own" a move/styling, something like 150 repetitions have to be done? (I guess what the person was saying amounts to the same thing for when you want to take something from a conscious level to subconcious level.)

This is where further practice albeit not necessarily in technique, and classes would help the dancer to improve their technique AND improve their flava.

[Ms_Sunlight]

I wonder sometimes if it's a fear thing.

People want so desperately to get things right when they're learning, they don't allow themselves to find what's right for them, and bring their whole dance personality and history of movement with them to the lessons.

They don't let themselves play for fear of standing out or being thought of as not doing things "properly" so they assimilate a style wholesale.

[tacad]

When I am in class or practising on my own I don't think about my indiviual style (as opposed to a style I might have learned in class). In a social dance, when I am totally interested in dancing with the lady, my own style or "ballroom flava" :lol: has the priority bigtime. However, in the back of my mind I'll try to improve the technique a bit. I've found that over time I'm able to do both style and technique in greater amounts and at the same time. But when I introduce a new concept, either style or technique, the other suffers for a while until my brain learns to cope.

[Alias]

There's also the approval problem, where advanced dancers collectively enforce a certain way of performing certain moves so that a lead or follow attributes "advanced" by whether or not you perform the move according to the ruling standard or style. it's a peer pressure of sorts, and I see it quite a bit

Exactly what I've sometimes noticed in salsa, you've well formulated it.

Personally what I find interesting is each dancer having his own personal way of dancing (while generally following the rules of the dance, those rules defining academic moves and some hints on other points), I also give value to improvisation and creativity, that is not only a dancer will not dance like his neighbour but he will also not dance exactly like himself the last time.

[africana]

But when I introduce a new concept, either style or technique, the other suffers for a while until my brain learns to cope. yep I agree! in the meantime I feel "ballroom-ish" :P
(actually I use that word I only mean that a move still feels foreign to me, that I have not yet assimilated it into my 'earthy' style)

Personally what I find interesting is each dancer having his own personal way of dancing (while generally following the rules of the dance, those rules defining academic moves and some hints on other points) true, and I find that getting to this "personal way" seems to be a never-ending process because sometimes it's not obvious whether one is copying only the technique or the stlye or both, when learning something new

[salsachinita]

It really isn't how much a dancers knows but how he uses what he knows.

As I'm re-visiting my old thread, I would just like to re-focus everyone's attention to another simple (yet eloquantly put) gem by Boriken :wink: .

It had been over a year since I posted this thread, and I have arrived at a different point right now. Still, Boriken's statememt is the best (and simplest) answer anyone can ask for 8) .