Salsa-club vs Salsa-ballroom?

[Jmatthew]

I've been talking Salsa lessons at my college, which generally emphasis the "proper" way to do things as seen by the particular dance professor. With Lindy it meant I learned a very Savoy Lindy first, then went out in the real world and watched it morph into a very Smooth style Lindy.

So now with Salsa, I'm learning a very latin salsa, with a lot of hip movements and leading with the ribcage and such. It looks very latin-ie, kind of ballroom formal, and I just think it's okay.

I went out tonight to a local bar that was having a Salsa night (I DJ the swing night, wanted to see what other dance nights were like, and get a little practice in) and saw two very different styles of Salsa. One was the stuff I'm learning. The people who were doing it were at or below my skill level (which isn't very good at all, although I do a lot of other dances well, so my salsa basics are pretty solid). The other kind looked NOTHING like what we are doing. It looked more like Salsa and West Coast had been thrown in two trains heading twoards each at high speeds and slammed into one another.

It was really cool.

So my question (ya, I'm long winded, sorry) is, is this a different style of Salsa? or does this sort of ballroom-ie salsa morph into something more spectacular once you get good at it? or do clubs just have an entirely different flavor of salsa than formal dance?

[Sagitta]

Club salsa is different from ballroom salsa.

Learning real salsa (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1680)

You might find the above thread useful.

[SDsalsaguy]

While every individual case is different, nine times out of 10 I’d say that these are two totally different forms of salsa. The ballroom version is, essentially, American Rhythm style mambo just shifted over to on1. Stylistically, however, it is much more rigid and codified then most club/street style salsa where the only real “rules” are basically “does it work?”

I started my salsa “education” at a ballroom studio that, ultimately, turned out to have no business teaching salsa. Let me tell you, the first time I went outside the studio to a salsa event I could only dance with others from my studio and, especially compared to the organic dancing of those around us, have never felt so white in my life! :shock:

I’m in no way disparaging ballroom dancing! I dance both ballroom and salsa myself…but I consider them very different things that involve different styles, skills, and prioritizations.

Just my opinion though, others may disagree…

[Sagitta]

Right!! I actually disagree. I don't like ballroom salsa! I enjoy both club and ballroom cha cha etc, but not salsa. That's one dance that stands on it's own for me. And though this is a little off topic I actually prefer ballroom style waltz better then club waltz.

[SDsalsaguy]

I actually disagree.
Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear... :?

I do not like ballroom style "salsa" in the least! I actually don't think it can really be called salsa, only ballroom dancing done to salsa music. More than this, however, I think that many, many ballroom studios and instructors do an incredible disservice to students telling them that they (the studio/instructor) can teach them salsa when, in essence, the only thing behind such a claim is that they don't want to give up the money involved. I can think of one ballroom teacher, for instance, who teaches a regular "salsa" class but hasn't been to a local salsa club more than a time or two a year for the past four years!

If I did not accurately convey this it may be because there *are* ballroom dancers who really are crossover dancers and are as equally respected in the salsa world as in the ballroom. What such instructors teach, as salsa, may, indeed, borrow heavily from ballroom dancing's excellent and highly developed ideas about partnering and frame... but their salsa still exhibits a different character from their ballroom dancing (Enio Cordoba & Teryl Jones and Tony Meredith & Melanie LaPatin comes to mind as just two examples of such top notch crossover dancers).

[MadamSamba]

Here, here SD! Ballroom salsa sucks. :)

Ok, I have to clarify that by saying I adore ballroom anything and started learning ballroom salsa and loved it, but I had the same experience as you, Jmatthew...I adored my ballroom salsa...until I hit the salsa clubs and saw REAL salsa.

There's absolutely no comparison. Street salsa is more free and fluid and there's nothing like watching a ballroom salsero/salsera do their little hand in the air thing in the midst of real salsa dancers...it's quite amusing, but ballroom salsa sticks out like a sore thumb, much like ballroom merengue (though less so) and, even to some extent, ballroom Argentine Tango, cha cha, samba and even rumba.

I remember going for a comp last year and only two couples out of about 10 did real salsa, the others did ballroom salsa and it was quite a site...I don't think they won (it was probably too radical) but watching the two styles side-by-side only highlighted how far ballroom salsa has to go!

[dancin/dj]

i agree ballroom salsa eeeeeeee,luv other ballroom dances but (not) the salsa taught in ballroom. however some of the top male& female salsa dancers whether la style- miami -ny had ballroom backgrounds or ballet or jazz, one example is jose neglia.ps only some.

[pygmalion]

i agree ballroom salsa eeeeeeee,luv other ballroom dances but (not) the salsa taught in ballroom. however some of the top male& female salsa dancers whether la style- miami -ny had ballroom backgrounds or ballet or jazz, one example is jose neglia.ps only some.

Hilarious. Ballroom salsa isn't. It's mambo on a different count. :lol:

But some folks do manage to make the transition, as you say, dancin/dj, and fit into both worlds. My ballroom styling coach is another good example -- I won't use her name, but she's up there in both the ballroom and LA-style salsa worlds, as well. The crossover can be made.

[Sagitta]

I actually disagree.
Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear... :?

I do not like ballroom style "salsa" in the least! I actually don't think it can really be called salsa, only ballroom dancing done to salsa music.

Perhaps you weren't, or perhaps I was too hyped up after a night of dancing. It happens!! :oops: It's great to see that everyone so far agrees that ballroom salsa/mambo is nothing like street/club salsa etc etc.

[Spitfire]

Now I'm getting confused... :?

Just from reading all these posts which make the distinction between ballroom and club Salsa I'm wondering which one am I actually doing.

Salsa is not IMO one of my better dances, but I enjoy it and while I learned in the ballroom environment most of it came from an instructor who learned his dancing from his grandfather who was from Cuba and not from any studio and thus is suppose to be teaching something authentic.

I had previously thought that both were done basically in the same manner, but one being more rigid with more flash and flair - which I'm not doing IMO, and the other more "let it all hang out" in it's approach.

Maybe if one described a basic club style pattern in detail I'd get a better idea - which I think I did ask in another thread, but can't recall the reply or the thread it was in.

[SDsalsaguy]

Spitfire... I'd have to say that the distinction we all seem to be making has far less to do with what patterns might be used and far more to do with how they are done.

[youngsta]

Spitfire if you learned salsa at Arizona Ballroom, you're probably ok. That's where I started and when i finally started going out to the clubs there wasn't any culture shock :lol: I WILL say that it wasn't until I started dancing out in LA that I discovered sabor. Personally I don't believe it matters where you start because almost everyone looks robotic in the beginning. But I think it's imperative that beginners get in the club environment as soon as possible.

[danceguy]

As another Salsero who started in a Ballroom school and am still making the transition to club dancer, I can certainly relate to this.

I took Salsa lessons at two different Ballroom schools, and both only taught the forward basic, on1. When I asked one of my teachers if she could show me on2 Salsa, she mentioned that she not only didn't know what it was, but she also hadn't been out to a club in a decade! She was a sweet person and a great teacher...but she couldn't provide the fundamentals I would need for going to the clubs.

Regarding the mambo basic, there was absolutely no mention of stepping side to side, or having any variation on this. We then learned patterns, were told to make our hips move but weren't given a lot of direction how. Toss it some cha-cha and Rumba and the focus on pure Salsa becomes even more diluted.

Even one in class is taught to move the same, and the main thing lacking any type of variation. No one ever said anything about an 8 count cycle, or explained what a conga or clave is. All we got was "quick, quick, slow" and not much else. We never were told to hold our hands up and letting go of your partner to do a shine was an almost unheard of occurance.

Going out to the clubs...you see some people with similiar techniques as yours...but there is so much passion, soul and energy behind how these folks dance. For instance, I've seen so many different approaches to doing a cross body lead, and I have a few different ways to do it myself now.

I felt like a Ballroom clone when I first went out, now I am working hard to develop my own personal style and I have a very long way to go.

I do heartily agree with the others, get out to the clubs as soon as you feel confident to do so. I love the freedom of the dance, even though I'm still a bumbling beginner. :wink:

SG

[Spitfire]

Spitfire if you learned salsa at Arizona Ballroom, you're probably ok. That's where I started and when i finally started going out to the clubs there wasn't any culture shock :lol: I WILL say that it wasn't until I started dancing out in LA that I discovered sabor. Personally I don't believe it matters where you start because almost everyone looks robotic in the beginning. But I think it's imperative that beginners get in the club environment as soon as possible.

Youngsta, did you ever go dancing at a place known as El Parador when you were here? it's about two miles west of where I live.

The ABC is where I first learned in the group classes.

[Spitfire]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?

[SDsalsaguy]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?
Yes. Although Josie is one of those salsa dancers who comes from a ballroom background, what she teaches is definately club style. Keep in mind, of course, that it is LA style (vs., for example, NY or Cuban), but, as far as feel -- and this discussion -- I'd say it is definately club style!

[salsachinita]

Just thought I'd post it here:

CapricornDancer & I were out on Friday night while we heard one of the respected veteran salseros said this: "L.A style is the Arthur Murray of club salsa!" :shock:

:lol: This line had us roling on the floor for quite sometime.....we've made a promise there & then to post it in the DF.....so here it is :lol: !

(plz don't shot me.....)

[dancin/dj]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?
Yes. Although Josie is one of those salsa dancers who comes from a ballroom background, what she teaches is definately club style. Keep in mind, of course, that it is LA style (vs., for example, NY or Cuban), but, as far as feel -- and this discussion -- I'd say it is definately club style! sdsalsaguy- i agree, well said.spitfire i have 2 of josies videos and agree w/ sdsalsaguy.

[dancin/dj]

Just thought I'd post it here:

CapricornDancer & I were out on Friday night while we heard one of the respected veteran salseros said this: "L.A style is the Arthur Murray of club salsa!" :shock:

:lol: This line had us roling on the floor for quite sometime.....we've made a promise there & then to post it in the DF.....so here it is :lol: !

(plz don't shot me.....) :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: lol.

[Spitfire]

Yes. Although Josie is one of those salsa dancers who comes from a ballroom background, what she teaches is definately club style. Keep in mind, of course, that it is LA style (vs., for example, NY or Cuban), but, as far as feel -- and this discussion -- I'd say it is definately club style!

Ok, this should put my confusion to rest; while I have not practiced any of the moves in her videos they are the kind that could very well be taught in the group classes at the studios here.

Have you met Josie?

spitfire i have 2 of josies videos and agree w/ sdsalsaguy.

I have one of them. Some of what's in the video are also on video clips which I think are on LatinDance.com. or ballroomdancers.com.

Guess I better start watching it some more. :wink:

[youngsta]

Youngsta, did you ever go dancing at a place known as El Parador when you were here? it's about two miles west of where I live.

The ABC is where I first learned in the group classes.
I used to go to El Parador and Irene's when I lived there.

[Spitfire]

Youngsta, did you ever go dancing at a place known as El Parador when you were here? it's about two miles west of where I live.

The ABC is where I first learned in the group classes.
I used to go to El Parador and Irene's when I lived there.

I've never been to Irene's, but have gone to El Parador on occasion. The last time I was there was for an event known as Smooth Swingin' Sundays which for the most part features big band sound. The lady who runs this teaches salsa at El Parador on the weekends.

Irene's also has Argentine Tango on at least one night.

[dancin/dj]

spitfire in answer to your question,yes i meet josie in phila about a year and a half ago at a workshop in phila.

[youngsta]

Just thought I'd post it here:

CapricornDancer & I were out on Friday night while we heard one of the respected veteran salseros said this: "L.A style is the Arthur Murray of club salsa!" :shock:

:lol: This line had us roling on the floor for quite sometime.....we've made a promise there & then to post it in the DF.....so here it is :lol: !

(plz don't shot me.....)
Those kinds of statements crack me up. I have loads of good friends in the LA scene and they all have such distinct styles it's impossible to label them LA style or NY style. Oh well, let the haters hate...

[SDsalsaguy]

Ok, this should put my confusion to rest; while I have not practiced any of the moves in her videos they are the kind that could very well be taught in the group classes at the studios here.
Good, glad I could help clear that up for you! :D

Have you met Josie?
Yes, I have. I took some workshops from her several years ago. Funny story about that actually... the workshops were at a friend’s studio (he owned it) and there was a social dance the same night. Well, I decided to ask her for a dance. Only later on did I find out that, as my friend saw me escorting her onto the floor he realized that he'd never danced with her himself and thought "Oh $h!t, I hope she's not one of those performance only salseras who can't social dance!" Let me tell you, no need to worry! What I remember as being particularly fantastic was how she would accept my lead and then include her styling as an embellishment. Remember, I was much more of a novice then, and she was, by far and away, the most advanced salsera I had danced with yet at that time... which made her use of styling as an accent stand out all that much more for me. To this day though I remain impressed that I never had to worry about her missing a lead because she was amidst her own styling – something that cannot be said for far too many....

[youngsta]

Aw man SD...you got a trophy dancer!! Lucky dawg :lol:

Note: Trophy dancer is a term my friends and I use to describe getting to dance with a known name in the salsa universe. I'm ready to add some names to my currently empty trophy list! :lol:

[Spitfire]

I've never met Josie, but I've emailed her a few times with some inquires. She seems like a very warm, friendly and personable lady.

I think that LatinDance.com is her website and I know she's registered on this one as she's made some posts in the announcements section.

I think she gave birth to a child not long ago.

[SDsalsaguy]

Believe me youngsta, it was wasted on me at the time and, although I'm sure she would have been too polite to say so, I doubt Josie would have diagreed eiether... :(

[youngsta]

Believe me youngsta, it was wasted on me at the time and, although I'm sure she would have been too polite to say so, I doubt Josie would have diagreed eiether... :(
It's all good because you can still say you danced with her 8)

[Sagitta]

spitfire i have 2 of josies videos and agree w/ sdsalsaguy.

I have one of them. Some of what's in the video are also on video clips which I think are on LatinDance.com. or ballroomdancers.com.

Guess I better start watching it some more. :wink:

Both...there are video clips of her on both sites. :)

[Sagitta]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?

I would say so, though some elements of her styling don't fly with me. For instance, having the leaders right hand move up and down on the second half of the basic in the open two handed position?...if I remember correctly[shudder] Something I detest!! [shrug]

I'm happy that you can see the difference between the two styles of dance now Spitfire. It's not an easy thing to explain...more a matter of something you see and know... :)

[brujo]

I don't see what the big deal is.

A lot of dances have been influenced by ballroom dancing. The Cuban danzon, the Argentine Tango all have ballroom dancing as one of the influences.

I think the advantage of a ballroom education over just taking lessons in a club or imitating is the emphasis on frame and technique that a ballroom class can give you. Some of the really good colombian dancers in my neck of the woods have a rough lead and really no floorcraft. When they show up, they are just there to show off. And they tend to manhandle the woman when they are 'dancing'.

I found that the 'ballroom' salsa classes I have taken have helped me keep my frame and help her move around by knowing where her body is and leading her with her body when she doesn't know what she is doing. However, after you are armed with the great knowledge from the ballroom classes, you need to go out and cut your teeth in the clubs, learn how people dance, see how their shoulders work, how they shake their bodies, the direction of their feets, the way they play with styling elements, etc, etc, etc.

The problem I see more often is that people go to classes and take lessons, and when they dance, they think that the lessons they took are to be repeated ad nauseum in the clubs. I think of the salsa ballroom lessons as a foundation, to which you can either add afro-cuban elements, NY styling or any other forms of dance on top.

[Spitfire]

Ok, this should put my confusion to rest; while I have not practiced any of the moves in her videos they are the kind that could very well be taught in the group classes at the studios here.
Good, glad I could help clear that up for you! :D

Have you met Josie?
Yes, I have. I took some workshops from her several years ago. Funny story about that actually... the workshops were at a friend’s studio (he owned it) and there was a social dance the same night. Well, I decided to ask her for a dance. Only later on did I find out that, as my friend saw me escorting her onto the floor he realized that he'd never danced with her himself and thought "Oh $h!t, I hope she's not one of those performance only salseras who can't social dance!" Let me tell you, no need to worry! What I remember as being particularly fantastic was how she would accept my lead and then include her styling as an embellishment. Remember, I was much more of a novice then, and she was, by far and away, the most advanced salsera I had danced with yet at that time... which made her use of styling as an accent stand out all that much more for me. To this day though I remain impressed that I never had to worry about her missing a lead because she was amidst her own styling – something that cannot be said for far too many....

Funny we should be discussing Josie; I just got a message from LatinDance.com. She is looking for dancers to work in a show in China for 3 months. Maybe she'll post that in the announcements forum.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?

I have an instructional video with Josie Neglia & Rogelio Moreno. I would agree that it´s club style (LA in this case). Yes, I believe Josie has a ballroom background. I think she learnt ballroom in Toronto while in York University (not sure though).

[SDsalsaguy]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?

I have an instructional video with Josie Neglia & Rogelio Moreno. I would agree that it´s club style (LA in this case). Yes, I believe Josie has a ballroom background. I think she learnt ballroom in Toronto while in York University (not sure though).
That's correct MLS. And it was also while in Toronto, while she was working in a ballroom studio, that she was first exposed to salsa -- at a club called Berlin. (By coincidence that also happens to be the same club where I was first exposed to salsa as well.)

[Sagitta]

I don't see what the big deal is.

The problem I see more often is that people go to classes and take lessons, and when they dance, they think that the lessons they took are to be repeated ad nauseum in the clubs. I think of the salsa ballroom lessons as a foundation, to which you can either add afro-cuban elements, NY styling or any other forms of dance on top.

No big deal at all. There just is a clear distinction between the two, as you have also pointed out. I personally wouldn't take a salsa ballroom class...I've taken some club classes where the instructor tecahes the concepts of frame etc pretty well. I also agree that just simply repeating what you have learnt, irrespective of whether it is at a club/ballroom class is stale/sterile dancing. One must add yourself to the moves to make them your own. :)

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Aw man SD...you got a trophy dancer!! Lucky dawg :lol:

Note: Trophy dancer is a term my friends and I use to describe getting to dance with a known name in the salsa universe. I'm ready to add some names to my currently empty trophy list! :lol:

Has anyone else had the privilege of dancing with a "trophy dancer"? Josie, Edie the Salsafreak, Joby Vasquez, Stacy Diaz, Eric Freeman, Jesus Aponte, Jayson Molina, bla, bla, bla, etc.

Care to share their experience?

[brujo]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?

I have an instructional video with Josie Neglia & Rogelio Moreno. I would agree that it´s club style (LA in this case). Yes, I believe Josie has a ballroom background. I think she learnt ballroom in Toronto while in York University (not sure though).
That's correct MLS. And it was also while in Toronto, while she was working in a ballroom studio, that she was first exposed to salsa -- at a club called Berlin. (By coincidence that also happens to be the same club where I was first exposed to salsa as well.)

Sadly, Berlin was renamed Manhattan Fuel recently, went under a bunch of renovations and personnel change, and never got the same crowd and energy back. The popular salsa night closed last year. I think it was replaced by a top 40 night.

[SDsalsaguy]

Have any of you seen Josie Neglia's instructional videos?

For those of you who have is what she teaches comparable to the club style?

I have an instructional video with Josie Neglia & Rogelio Moreno. I would agree that it´s club style (LA in this case). Yes, I believe Josie has a ballroom background. I think she learnt ballroom in Toronto while in York University (not sure though).
That's correct MLS. And it was also while in Toronto, while she was working in a ballroom studio, that she was first exposed to salsa -- at a club called Berlin. (By coincidence that also happens to be the same club where I was first exposed to salsa as well.)
Sadly, Berlin was renamed Manhattan Fuel recently, went under a bunch of renovations and personnel change, and never got the same crowd and energy back. The popular salsa night closed last year. I think it was replaced by a top 40 night.
I was actually back there last April, after the name change but while there was still salsa on Tuesday nights... I actually liked the renovation, too bad it never took off again. :(

[borikensalsero]

There is this one kid here in NY City who frequents Salsa venues. He is a Ballroom dancer. When he has his partner they actually look, as good as their ability lets them, and for what they do, I think they are pretty good at it. Yet, when he has to dance with non-ballroom dancer, he actually has to man handle the ladies. I feel so bad, for him, and the girls. All of his moves stop looking brisk and on point and become abrupt and out of place. The girls look like they are fighting for their life instead of enjoying the dance. He cuts them off when he shouldn't and the briskness and center of his lead start working againts him. His posture prevents his lead from smoothly reaching his partner, and the ladie's inablity to adapt to his style yeilds even more painful watching.

I still wonder if he is trying to mesh the 2 styles, or that he refuses to be more of a social dancer and meet the ladies in the middle. I've yet to see him, in this past year, to have a smooth dance with someone other than his dance partner. Yet, when his dance partner dances with social dancers she looks like she is a social dancer...

The guy is very skilled, yet the aspects that probably make him a good ballroom salsa dancer(briskness, frame, etc) are those very same things that don't allow him to succeed as a social salsa dancer. (please keep in mind that all I know about ballroom salsa is what I've seen on TV and this guy dancing)

I've actually been inclined to pull him aside and give him a few pointers, but I figure his goals are by no means the same as mine and he is doing what he best needs to reach that goal.

[salsachinita]

I have loads of good friends in the LA scene and they all have such distinct styles it's impossible to label them LA style or NY style.

:oops: I agree with you there, Youngsta. It's just that all of the cookie cutters we have here are from L.A. schools, with attitudes to match :roll: .... (and we have next to zero NY influnece.......). The comment was more directed to them......... sorry for not making it clear :oops: .

[salsachinita]

Aw man SD...you got a trophy dancer!! Lucky dawg :lol:

Note: Trophy dancer is a term my friends and I use to describe getting to dance with a known name in the salsa universe. I'm ready to add some names to my currently empty trophy list! :lol:

Has anyone else had the privilege of dancing with a "trophy dancer"? Josie, Edie the Salsafreak, Joby Vasquez, Stacy Diaz, Eric Freeman, Jesus Aponte, Jayson Molina, bla, bla, bla, etc.

Care to share their experience?

I havn't been fortunate enough to meet these dancers yet, being so far away :cry: . I did miss seeing Edie & Al last Oct when they were in sydney though :cry: ......

I have danced with Oscar D'Leon when he was down here, then Johnny Rivero in Sydney just a few weeks ago :D ! (as well as all the guys from Cuba......whenever there is a show here!)

[salsachinita]

I think of the salsa ballroom lessons as a foundation, to which you can either add afro-cuban elements, NY styling or any other forms of dance on top.

:notworth: Couldn't agree with you more there, Brujo :notworth: !

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I have danced with Oscar D'Leon when he was down here, then Johnny Rivero in Sydney just a few weeks ago :D ! (as well as all the guys from Cuba......whenever there is a show here!)

Oscar D´Leon & Johnny Rivera! Hmmm. Did you enjoy dancing with them? Were they any good? What style did they dance? I hear most musicians aren´t that great of dancers...

[salsachinita]

I have danced with Oscar D'Leon when he was down here, then Johnny Rivero in Sydney just a few weeks ago :D ! (as well as all the guys from Cuba......whenever there is a show here!)

Oscar D´Leon & Johnny Rivero! Hmmm. Did you enjoy dancing with them? Were they any good? What style did they dance? I hear most musicians aren´t that great of dancers...

I personally enjoyed dancing with musicians (who do dance)! They feel different to dancers, in the sense that they are not at all pre-occupied with fancy leads and tricks, but concentrate on the music/song instead. They tend to dance with you like they are actually playing the song, with all the light & shade of the music......which I love.

While some musicians do not dance, those ones who do dance are amongst the most comfortable leads I have experienced. They have solid basics & execute songs well. I pretty much grew up dancing with these guys.......so all these fancy moves & tricks are relatively foreign to me.

Oscar & Little Johnny were great fun, with amazing energy 8) !

I guess I would call this style "old school Latino" :? .

[dancin/dj]

I have danced with Oscar D'Leon when he was down here, then Johnny Rivero in Sydney just a few weeks ago :D ! (as well as all the guys from Cuba......whenever there is a show here!)

Oscar D´Leon & Johnny Rivera! Hmmm. Did you enjoy dancing with them? Were they any good? What style did they dance? I hear most musicians aren´t that great of dancers... hello mapleleaf. im not sure how that thing about musicians cant dance deal got around but its really not true, generally speaking- sure there are some who cant dance ,but being a musican myself and knowing many musicans, what happens is (we) or should i say, there using different skills or cordination and are not used to the different usage of stepping ,hand, frame etc that goes on in learned dance, without getting to much into it, look at all the hip hop- motown- disco bands, many of them are ,and were dancers also 8) once a musician learns patterns etc, look out cause we hear and feel a lot thats going on in the music. :)