Ballroom demographics...

[JohnK]

Hello again, got another noob question. In my neck of the woods, it seems my fellow dancers clump into 2 age ranges, either close / into retirement age, or close / into college age. The 30- to early 50- somethings are MIA. I'm no spring chicken myself, but not quite ready for AARP either.

Is this just a local thing for me, or do you all see this in your respective venues? When I was growing up, ballroom was considered what yer parents did (thus close to "kiss of death" on the coolness meter). Looks like Zoot Suit Riot et al gave things a shot in the arm a few years ago, is social ballroom still popular on campus?

[Sagitta]

On campus? With whom? I think that the largest group of dancers are the freestyle non-partnered dancing clubbers.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. Interesting. The ballroom crowd here is heavy on the in-betweens, the 30 to 50 somethings. You know, the folks who are single, divorcong, or somehow at loose ends. There are some high schoolers and college people.

I wonder what the deal is?

[Spitfire]

Here, there is an all age representation at the ballroom dances so one does not have to feel like they don't fit in due to their age. There are more teenagers then previous.

The Lindy Hop community; what's left of it that is, has been mainly college age.

[BayAreaBallroomLady]

Out here I see a lot of the same folks you have at certain studios. The studio I took lessons at for a year was almost exclusively VERY old Seniors, Newly Engaged learning for their first dance, with a few computer programmers with their mail order Russian brides. LOL.

I'm not kidding.... I've since moved and now looking for a studio that hopefully will be a little more "hip".

I have lots of newly married friends (like myself) who took lessons for the wedding, and they had so much fun that they want to continue learning. But the "dance studio" environment we've been exposed to is just .... really weird.
I sure hope to find someplace with a better cross-section of folks myself.

[pygmalion]

Hi BayAreaBallroomLady. Welcome. :D

Yup. Demographics is everything, at least until you get so into dancing that you don't care anymore. But it can make the difference between having a good time and thinking the evening was a drag.

[Sagitta]

I agree. I'm not too concerned about the demographics. Israeli-Latin folk dancing mostly freshmen, contra dancing families, WCS has old folk, lindy has the college crowd... I go to dance. :)

By the way welcome to df BayAreaBallroomLady!! :D

[TemptressToo]

the average age of most people at my regular swing dance nights (with some latin and ballroom mixed in--less than 10%) happens to be around 17. :)

I'm 26 and seem to be the exception. There are a few older couples (50+) and some others around my age (the military guys especially). But the large majority seems to be very young. I dance with teenagers every week which isn't odd as I look like a teenager (most people guess in the 14-18 range).

[pygmalion]

Yeah. The swing crowd here is mostly teens and very early 20 somethings. No surprise there -- the swing dances and classes are held on the local college campus.

[pygmalion]

Oh and btw, TemptressToo, I checked out your web page. You're a knockout! :D 8)

[TemptressToo]

Well thank you.

Actually, my situation is a bit odd. Here...the only place holding regular swing dances is a local American Legion. These kids are mostly in high school and it has grown entirely from word-of-mouth and a little PR work. Some of them are really good because they have been dancing for years. I've only been doing swing dancing for less than two months but have quickly become a favorite partner because I learn very fast and am quick on my feet. At the present, I've learned the basic, the Balboa, the Foxtrot, the tandem-Charleston, some more advanced swing (dips, spins, etc.), and am working on the Shim Sham. I really want to learn the Lindy Hop but haven't had the opportunity. Pretty much, I've concluded you replace your basic steps with kick-steps and it is much more bouncy.

I was so addicted after my first night...I read every book and got the DVD. ;) BTW, never buy any Cal Pozo "Learn to Dance" DVD's...the outside is enticing...but I was bored to tears. I learned the "never judge a book by its cover" thing all over again because the outside seems to promise more advanced moves and stunts while the DVD itself is the most boring of basics taught by slow old people. LOL!

[Adwiz]

When I was growing up, ballroom was considered what yer parents did (thus close to "kiss of death" on the coolness meter)... is social ballroom still popular on campus?

ROFL. I felt the same way growing up. However, there seems to be a surge of interest among young people, especially here in Vancouver. The UBC Dance Club at the University of British Columbia is absolutely huge. We had dozens of clubbers participate in the Newcomer categories at the recent Snowball Classic, by far the biggest turnout ever in that category.

The interesting thing is that few of them participate in social dance circles where the "parent"-aged dancers are active. They find other venues and focus more on DanceSport competition I think. This younger group is probably just as large in numbers as the older group (I see them show up in the comp audiences) but they don't hang out in the same place, so there seems to be fewer of them.

With my 15-year-old getting very active in DanceSport (I partnered with her in Newcomer Standard a couple of weeks ago and we came in fourth out of a pretty large field), I'm really noticing the generation gap effect.

When J. Lo's remake of the Japanese classic "Shall We Dance" hits cinemas this spring/summer, there is likely to be an even greater interest in ballroom from the younger crowd.

[pygmalion]

Hi adwiz! I'd love to see a photo of you dancing with your daughter sometime. :D Is there any particular factor that you think contributed to the increased popularity among the younger generation? Is it the University program? I ask because there is ballroom taught at one of the local universities, but that program is relatively small, as is the school, and around here the bulk of dancers are thirty-somethings or older. There are some exceptions, of course.

Also, thanks for the reminder about Shall We Dance. I'm working on ballroom PR campaign. Maybe I can arrange a dance exhibition in conjunction with that premiere.

[Adwiz]

Hi adwiz! I'd love to see a photo of you dancing with your daughter sometime.

I've ordered a DVD of the competition done by a professional firm. They do a great job of this, so I'll see if I can post a small video clip online when I get it.

Is there any particular factor that you think contributed to the increased popularity among the younger generation?

I'm not sure, but today I was talking about DanceSport with my hairdresser and he said he noticed the past couple of years an increasing number of young people saying that they were getting involved in ballroom dancing. Is it just becoming "cool" somehow? I dunno what the sudden attraction is.

However, we tend to forget here in North America that ballroom is huge everywhere else in the world. There are 6 million registered DanceSport competitors in Europe alone, and about 15 million worldwide. Only a tiny fraction (comparatively) are involved in North America. Maybe awareness is just spreading from international influence.

[pygmalion]

Yes. Ballroom dancing is huge everywhere else. I'm trying to figure out what the difference is in America. Perhaps I can't make ballroom huge here, but maybe I can help grow it a little.

[StacyDavis]

Here in Fort Wayne, In it is fairly well mixed, leans a little toward over 40 but there are high school age kids doing it also. Not so many 21-40, probably too busy raising children.

[pygmalion]

Yup. That's been my theory. I know very few dancers who have young children. There are some, but I bet a lot of folks with little kids are at home, spending their time and money on the little ones, during their twenties and thirties.

[Christina75]

On the subject of demographics I've found that for me the challenge is to not judge. With my renewed interest in dance, I've been searching for opportunities and I've had to remind myself that with limited choices, I shouldn't be so quick to assume I won't fit in somewhere. I'll read about a dance group or club on the internet and think "oh that's college kids" or "oh that's married couples" or "I'm not old enough for that". Am I the only one who tends to do that? Maybe that is why certain people stay away from dance?

Christina :)

[pygmalion]

A lot of people do stay away for those reasons, but there's no need, I don't think. I've been going to a senior citizen's tea dance that's held locally. And it's really not bad. Quite nice, if you just let yourself go with the flow and enjoy the company. :D

[KevinL]

I'll read about a dance group or club on the internet and think "oh that's college kids" or "oh that's married couples" or "I'm not old enough for that". Am I the only one who tends to do that? Maybe that is why certain people stay away from dance?

When I first moved here I asked one of the other teachers about "The Dance Club", and he said that I shouldn't even bother because it was all older couples, and they only allowed people in fi they came as a couple.

I did evenutally find a date to go, and it was indeed almost all older people who didn't trade partners. It was fun, though.

They closed down last spring because they couldn't get enough people to attend. Perhaps if they had allowed singles to attend their dances they would have survived.

Kevin

[etchuck]

Yes. Ballroom dancing is huge everywhere else. I'm trying to figure out what the difference is in America. Perhaps I can't make ballroom huge here, but maybe I can help grow it a little.

I'm going to make a huge sweeping sociological/political statement though I'm going to generalize: I don't think we (the US) subsidize art as much as other countries do. There are many countries with "Ministries of Culture" or something which will give support to many artistic companies with government funds.

Furthermore, our society tends to push sports and athletics over artistic endeavors. We're going to have an NFL cable channel going on the air soon, but you can find coverage of all the various sports any time of the day. I don't think you'd find any sort of dance show going on at a prime slot nowadays, although I guess the talent shows like Star Search and Dance Fever (hoping they're doing a second run this summer) are going to debunk me soon. I think most importantly, in an era of budgets for schools and falling tax revenues for them (some deserved some not), art programs get axed more than sports programs. High schools have athletic booster clubs, but I don't think anyone will throw you money for dancesport at the high school level unless your program is already proven and very good. And even then. If the athletic budget for a school district gets cut, there's a lot more press about that than if the school's choir gets axed. It's not fair, but nothing is.

[pygmalion]

I agree with what you're saying, at least as it applies to, how do I say this, cultural endeavors that appear elitist. Remember Newt Gingrich and his remarks which led to significant loss of funding for PBS? He said something like, those cultural programs aren't for ordinary people. so why should ordinary Americans pay for it? Yeesh. There's a socioeconomic slant to it, too, I think.

[Christina75]

If we can just appeal to Sega or Nintendo to come out with an action-packed spy-game that involves dancing...then maybe we could drum up some more interest. :D

Come to think of it, maybe that's what I need...a virtual dance partner...hmmm... :wink:

Christina

[Porfirio Landeros]

I started dancing in a cotillion, so social dancing was only part of the education - I was 13 when I started.

From when I was about 15, I was attending the local Saturday night social dances. I went with adults in the their 30's to 40's, and they made up about 10 to 15 of the 100+ people in the ballroom. The rest were senior citizens, and they could not be happier seeing a 15 year old boy dancing.

So, I think a lot of times people go to places expecting to be entertained, but if you bring your own party with you, you'll have fun no matter what. If you think a Senior dance is boring, maybe YOU'RE boring ;-)

[etchuck]

If we can just appeal to Sega or Nintendo to come out with an action-packed spy-game that involves dancing...then maybe we could drum up some more interest. :D

Come to think of it, maybe that's what I need...a virtual dance partner...hmmm... :wink:

Christina

You'd think that since there are those dancing arcade games... :?

P.S. As I finally catch up a bit to the thread... I liked the Japanese movie "Shall We Dance" by itself. Why ... argh... remakes... "Eat Drink Man Woman" becomes "Tortilla Soup..." nothing against that but ... argh...

[pygmalion]

I saw both those movies, too, etchuck, and was SO disappointed when I realized they were the same movie, just different ethnic groups. Grr.

I'm hoping the Shall We Dance remake will raise the visibility level of ballroom in the US in a positive way. I hold out no great hopes that it will be a great movie. No disrespect intended to J-Lo, but, well, ... I'd better leave that alone. Great movie or not, at least ballroom will be on some people's awareness when it wasn't before. That's a good thing, at least in my mind.

[etchuck]

I'm afraid I'm going to be comparing this version of Shall We Dance with Dance With Me. Heck, as long as it's not another Gigli. :oops: Again, nothing against Tortilla Soup or Latino-Americans in general, but for all intents and purposes, they make these remakes for one reason (money from an English-understanding audience because most Americans won't go see foreign films unless they had pressure to [cf. The Passion of the Christ]).

Heck, I'd say let's put Paula Abdul or Carmen Electra back in business. :) Anyway, there are very, very few remakes of foreign movies that are better than the original.

Now if anyone knows a documentarian who wants to do a short film on ballroom dancing, that might be something.

As for artistic culture and American society... I guess part of it is that modern/postmodern American culture emphasizes more on results (who wins and who loses, who has the most money, etc.) and doesn't really emphasize art appreciation (which depends on a introspective development: being able to understand what an artist is doing and why you as the audience react to it). It takes a lot of time to develop that sort of aesthetic appreciation, and of course each person has a different reaction to something (I know art when I see it).

The perception is that if you have enough time in your life to go to a museum, a play/musical, or a concert, you're probably wealthy enough to have the time to do it. I think it's just a general lack of aesthetics education (measuring and understanding subjective art as opposed to counting beans) in our society and education system that's responsible here.

I think in other countries, artistic expression is a demonstration of confidence in one's history and cultural legacy. (There's a Chinese folk dance club here (at Duke), and they do a good job.) To that extent, I don't think we as Americans are either confident in our own legacy or care about it as much as many other countries do. (That's at least what I think.)

[pygmalion]

That's an interesting perspective, etchuck. I hadn't thought of it that way, but I'll think about it. My initial reaction is to think about music education in schools and how many programs have been decimated because of budget cuts, even though there are established links between music education and academic success. I don't want to get too far off topic, but I have to say I agree with you that there's something going on with our culture's values and its relationship to dance. I'm not sure I understand what that something is, yet.

[KevinL]

Now if anyone knows a documentarian who wants to do a short film on ballroom dancing, that might be something.

I already did that once when I used the local cable access station to edit, and then broadcast a program about National Ballroom Dance Week. (I described it in another thread somewhere.) I'm planning to do the same thing again this year.

As for artistic culture and American society...

Since the NBDW program was (relatively) easy, I also did a series of programs designed to teach people the basics of various partner dances. One of the cable access stations was pleased to get "arts programming produced in Vermont". I'm a member of "the arts" and I never even knew it!

Kevin

[Porfirio Landeros]

Now if anyone knows a documentarian who wants to do a short film on ballroom dancing, that might be something.

Haven't you seen the short film on ballroom dancing on the Strictly Ballroom DVD? I don't think that short film can be topped... you'll see what I mean. It's located in the bonus features (also, there's a hidden deleted scene on the DVD too).