Two Left Feet

[pygmalion]

Just curious. What do you think? Are there people out there who just can't dance, no matter how much help they get? Or is everybody teachable to some extent? Thoughts?

[youngsta]

I think everyone is teachable, just some people out there that have to invest MUCH more effort than others.

[SDsalsaguy]

I'm with youngsta on this... besides which, if I could learn, anyone can! :?

Seriously, I was one of the most pitiful beginers you've ever even heard of! :shock:

[salsachinita]

Seriously, I was one of the most pitiful beginers you've ever even heard of! :shock:

I seriously doubt it, SD! I would HAVE to be the worst back then :oops: !

[Sakura]

I think it depends on the person. If they want to learn, but they have a lot of trouble with it, I believe they could eventually learn at least a little bit of something. But if they could care less, i.e.: parents make them take lessons or something like that, and they have a lot of trouble with it, then there's no point to it. *shrugs* I just believe in the policy that people will only learn if they like the subject matter or think it's fun. (Is that implied in liking it?? :? )
Though, those are just my thoughts. :roll: See you all later!
Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sagitta]

If you can walk you can dance. Dancing is fancy body stepping. (When one walks one moves ones entire body. When people learn to dance they forget this and just move their legs, hence not stepping, but body stepping.)

[SDsalsaguy]

Seriously, I was one of the most pitiful beginers you've ever even heard of! :shock:

I seriously doubt it, SD! I would HAVE to be the worst back then :oops: !
I beg to differ SC! Heck, I was so movement challenged back then that I was lucky if I overcame gravity on a regular basis! :oops: :oops: :oops:

[peachexploration]

Well, I think some people just have to really WORK at it, I mean rreeaallyy work at it. I know several people (including instructors) who have been working at it and still have problems with basic rhythm even after a couple of years of classes. I don't really know why that is but with a little hard work, it can happen.

[salsachinita]

Seriously, I was one of the most pitiful beginers you've ever even heard of! :shock:

I seriously doubt it, SD! I would HAVE to be the worst back then :oops: !
I beg to differ SC! Heck, I was so movement challenged back then that I was lucky if I overcame gravity on a regular basis! :oops: :oops: :oops:

:wink: Well, we might just have to sort that out on the dancefloor now, no?

[SDsalsaguy]

Seriously, I was one of the most pitiful beginers you've ever even heard of! :shock:

I seriously doubt it, SD! I would HAVE to be the worst back then :oops: !
I beg to differ SC! Heck, I was so movement challenged back then that I was lucky if I overcame gravity on a regular basis! :oops: :oops: :oops:

:wink: Well, we might just have to sort that out on the dancefloor now, no?
And how, pray tell, could/would we do that??? :? :? :?

[tsb]

I think everyone is teachable, just some people out there that have to invest MUCH more effort than others.

i think a lot of it is also influenced by how they're taught; every processes information differently. so even though i think i've explained something well in one way, i try to find a different way to explain it which resonates with their own experiences. you can spend hours trying to explain cuban motion, or you can suggest to someone that the key to dancing merengue is to pretend you've got a wedgie you have to loosen without using your hands! :lol:

[twodance]

Everyone can learn to dance to one level or another. Not everyone wants to be the world champion. Most people just want to blend in on the dance floor. Some want to showoff and others want to compete. The only limit is the limit of your teacher. You can only dance as good as he or she does.

[SDsalsaguy]

The only limit is the limit of your teacher. You can only dance as good as he or she does.
I'm sorry, but I have to say that I vehemently disagree with this!

A great dancer can be an atrocious teacher while a horrible dancer might be a teaching genius!

[TheArchon]

I think(and I know one girl) there are ppl that will never be able to dance , without looking clumsy, I think those ppl just don't have the ear to listen to the music, to know when to do the right steps, maybe they are great without music, but if they don’t have the right ear, nothing can be done.

BTW, this girl seems to fancy me, and I always try to disappear from the dance floor when she is around, cause she always asks me to dance with her, and its a complete nightmare!! and she try to learn for 2 years!

[Tasek]

Most people can learn at least a little dancing I think, but I do recall one guy from when I first learned dancing.
He started the same beginner ballroom class I took, then tried it again the next season, then again (got to give him credit for trying) with a different teacher, but alas, after a year and a half still nothing; couldn't take two steps without messing up and couldn't keep a beat even if his life had depended on it.
So it's just once that i've seen someone 'unteachable' but that does prove it can happen.

[Sakura]

Seriously, I was one of the most pitiful beginers you've ever even heard of! :shock:

I seriously doubt it, SD! I would HAVE to be the worst back then :oops: !
I beg to differ SC! Heck, I was so movement challenged back then that I was lucky if I overcame gravity on a regular basis! :oops: :oops: :oops:

:wink: Well, we might just have to sort that out on the dancefloor now, no?
And how, pray tell, could/would we do that??? :? :? :?

Ooh! Settling it on the dance floor! :D Sounds like a great idea to me! And, SD, there's an easy, geek-inspired way to settle it over the internet! Just set up a chat, get a d-20 (twenty sided die), and start rolling! It's like D+D, only better! ('Cause it's dancing!) The higher the number, the better the move!
.... :oops: :oops: Wow... I am such a geek.... =^__^=;; Ah, well! See you all later!
Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[SDsalsaguy]

Ooh! Settling it on the dance floor! :D Sounds like a great idea to me! And, SD, there's an easy, geek-inspired way to settle it over the internet! Just set up a chat, get a d-20 (twenty sided die), and start rolling! It's like D+D, only better! ('Cause it's dancing!) The higher the number, the better the move!
Ok... but how does that tell us how bad we each were when we started, years ago? :lol:

[dancin_feet]

This is a subject close to my heart.

Yes! Everybody can be taught anything, if they are willing to learn. If not, then you don't have a hope in hell of teaching them anything.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Some people may just take longer to understand the steps, some people may be rhythum challenged, but everybody can learn to be the best that they can be. Not everybody may be able to get to the dizzying heights of stardom but then it wouldn't be special if everybody could get there, would it?

[Sagitta]

i think a lot of it is also influenced by how they're taught; every processes information differently. so even though i think i've explained something well in one way, i try to find a different way to explain it which resonates with their own experiences. you can spend hours trying to explain cuban motion, or you can suggest to someone that the key to dancing merengue is to pretend you've got a wedgie you have to loosen without using your hands! :lol:

I like that wedgie explanation. Sure to get some laughs. Another explanation of merengue is that for each step you let the hip settle down as if you are tired of waiting at a bus stop and are resting the other foot. Also, drive down pushing off the floor with your feet....this might work well as the folk dance people know about bending their knees to achieve a good stomp.

I observed someone explain cuban motion in merengue two weeks ago in a folk dance class and she was doing the real deal, with knee flexing, rolling of feet...the whole works. I wasn't suprised people didn't get it!! She asked me if perhaps I could get a merengue song played and ******* the memory of the class next week. I must think more about this.

[dancin_feet]

Someone explained to me once that the hips in lambada were like you have a pencil stuck up your bottom and you are writing the number 8!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Swing Kitten]

:shock:


note to self-- don't learn lambada

[peachexploration]

Someone explained to me once that the hips in lambada were like you have a pencil stuck up your bottom and you are writing the number 8!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ouch! :x

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: Actually, I prefer the old "quarter between the cheeks" analogy myself. Seems less excruciating, somehow. :oops: :lol:

And I've met some hopelessly bad would-be dancers in my day. In time, and I do mean a lot of time, almost everyone has been able to master some basics. I think a lot of people give up too soon, because they're discouraged by the "natural" dancers around them, and they get caught up in comparisons.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I´m living proof than that even the worst case in the northern hemisphere has been able to learn how to dance. Yes SG and Salsachinita, I was much worse than you guys. No competition here.

Now, I believe with a little of persistance you can even teach a baby elephant to spin gracefully.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Someone explained to me once that the hips in lambada were like you have a pencil stuck up your bottom and you are writing the number 8!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Amazing the number of things you learn here in the forum. 8)

[danceguy]

I´m living proof than that even the worst case in the northern hemisphere has been able to learn how to dance. Yes SG and Salsachinita, I was much worse than you guys. No competition here.

Hey! Did you mean SD instead? No matter, I'm still very much a beginner although I'd like to think I'm learning pretty fast, but then again I'm not really sure. :oops:

I'm giving it my best though, but I've got a loooong way to go. :wink:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I´m living proof than that even the worst case in the northern hemisphere has been able to learn how to dance. Yes SG and Salsachinita, I was much worse than you guys. No competition here.

Hey! Did you mean SD instead? No matter, I'm still very much a beginner although I'd like to think I'm learning pretty fast, but then again I'm not really sure. :oops:

I'm giving it my best though, but I've got a loooong way to go. :wink:

Oh Yes SG, I meant SD. It was a typing error, sorry. :oops:

[Vince A]

Just curious. What do you think? Are there people out there who just can't dance, no matter how much help they get? Or is everybody teachable to some extent? Thoughts?
You know . . . I've been thinking about this since I first read it.

This Saturday evening, I have to teach 50 couples how to dance the NC2S. I'm not looking forward to!

I've discovered that one other couple, who will be attending the Valentine's Ball, can already do the NC2S. I've subsequently taught them in privates sessions, and have enlisted thier assistance for this event.

I have given privates to another woman who also will be attending.

My point to this? Well, for two weeks now, I've had individuals (all men) come up to me and say things about how two "left-footed" they are, or "I just cannot dance," or "I only did this to please my wife for Valentine's Day."

This, of course, will be a nighmare to teach. I will only teach - frame, connection, etc, and only the basic foot pattern - technique. I cannot even fathom me getting anymore done than this in a hour or so. I do have other things prepared to teach them if I am wrong, but . . . I'll see if I can add a quantifiable answer to your question after Saturday night.

What do ya' think???? I normally do not teach groups . . . any suggestions for teaching a group would really be appreciated . . .

[pygmalion]

I know what you mean, Vince. A year or so ago, I was in a group class with a gentleman who had had a major brain injury, and was just coming back. Such mixed feelings. I literally thanked God he was there, but I didn't want to dance with him. He didn't get it.

Sorry. I digress. From the student's perspective, I would recommend keeping it as simple as you can -- the basic, and a turn or two. But throw in a few technique or styling hints,casually, for the students who can handle it.

[Sakura]

Ooh! Settling it on the dance floor! :D Sounds like a great idea to me! And, SD, there's an easy, geek-inspired way to settle it over the internet! Just set up a chat, get a d-20 (twenty sided die), and start rolling! It's like D+D, only better! ('Cause it's dancing!) The higher the number, the better the move!
Ok... but how does that tell us how bad we each were when we started, years ago? :lol:

*sweatdrops* :oops: ...Touche. 8) I suppose it doesn't, but that's when you dig up any old tapes you might have had of your first lessons! If you don't have any, then there's no proof that you were ever bad! We can just say that you were born with silver shoes on your feet! (Not exactly the spoon analogy, buy hey, I'm doing some improv. here..... :) )

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[dancin_feet]

Some people just have a brick wall up that they "can't" do it. There is no use in trying to break this wall down, they have to do that for themselves. All you can do is show them the absolute basics, praise what they get right, and let them decide for themselves. They'll either break the wall down themselves, realising it's not as hard as they thought, or they will continue to be content sitting behind their "I can't do this" facade and miss a whole new opportunity.

[tsb]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

try feeding it salt.

which would tie into another recent topic about dancing being fun - make dancing fun as soon as possible and more people will stick with it long enough to get better at it.

[dancin_feet]

Agreed. Fun fun fun, and they'll get the addiction, just like the rest of us!
:lol:

[tsb]

Someone explained to me once that the hips in lambada were like you have a pencil stuck up your bottom and you are writing the number 8!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

can i use a magic marker instead?

but it helps illustrate my point - nondancers often benefit from non-dance related analogies - and even more so if it can make them laugh.

[tsb]

I normally do not teach groups . . . any suggestions for teaching a group would really be appreciated . . .

your goal(s) are different. you've got people dancing together who are likely romantically involved with each other (and probably more resistant to the idea of rotating partners) and rather about doing something right, they want to have a romantic time together. so if it were me, i wouldn't go beyond the basic and the underarm turn, and getting them to rotate in place slowly. when giving instruction on frame i suggest putting in the perspective of how this makes them better partners for each other. and remind them to smile a lot! i'm pretty sure they'll be pretty happy.

good luck.

[Vince A]

Thanks to all of you . . .
Recap:
-Keep it simple . . . basics, maybe a simple turn, minor technique/styling, frame and importance of, smile, look up, no rotation (I was not going to have them rotate since most will be married), and keep it fun, Fun, FUN.

-I love doing standup comedy . . . we will be doing a very, very advanced, 2 minute, NC2S demo that is very slow (R.Kelly song - I forget the name, but it is #17 on his latest album) to show them what can be done, and yet we will incorporate some comedy in the routine to keep it fun - no judges remember - we can do what we want. Also, I have planned a few quick comedy stints that will be incoporated in the lesson . . . just to keep them smiling and not be so serious . . . not too much comedy . . . just some play on words and moves.

Thanks again . . . I'm looking forward to doing it . . .

[KevinL]

... no rotation (I was not going to have them rotate since most will be married), and keep it fun, Fun, FUN. ...



The whole rotation/no rotation topic is often discussed among dancers and dance teachers. I can understand the point of view of the "no rotation" side, ie that people want to learn to dance with their partner, and that they might not be comfortable dancing with strangers.

However, I am completely on the "rotation" side for the following reasons:

A) Dancing is supposed to be social, and trading partners lets you meet (the opposite gender) half of the group. If you go out to a party do you only talk to your partner? No, the point is to talk with new people.

B) People learn better, and faster, if they trade partners because:

1) there is always a mix of skill levels, and (averaged out) you will get to dance with someone who knows what they are doing.

2) Everyone learns differently, and some people will catch on more quickly. If you and your significant both learn in the same way you might not catch some important point that most of the other people in the group do catch, and could show you if you trade partners.

3) If you only practice with one partner you learn to respond to (and perhaps anticipate) what that one partner will do. If you dance with multiple people it is much harder to anticipate what your partner will do, and you will be able to "feel" different ways of connecting with your partner.

4) People are more polite with strangers. Have you ever noticed married couples "arguing" on the dance floor? ("Honey, you're doing it wrong!") Will they behave the same way with a stranger, or will they pay more attention to what their partner is doing?

C) Not everyone has a partner, and neither sticking two people who might not know each other together nor having the "extra" partner(s) left out seem fair to those people.

Having said that all of that, I don't force people to trade partners in my classes. I heartily encourage trading partners, and when people realize that everyone else catches on more quickly (and that they get to dance with my assistant and/or myself), almost everyone eventually decides to trade partners.

Kevin

[tsb]

... no rotation (I was not going to have them rotate since most will be married), and keep it fun, Fun, FUN. ...


4) People are more polite with strangers. Have you ever noticed married couples "arguing" on the dance floor? ("Honey, you're doing it wrong!") Will they behave the same way with a stranger, or will they pay more attention to what their partner is doing?


also, they're more likely to realize, "hey, the partners of my husband/wife all do the move smoothly - except with me. so it's probably me."

i agree that everything stated about rotating is relevant, but only if one of the main goals of the class is to make the students able to dance well with a lot of different people. not everyone has that goal - even among 'serious' students.

[Vince A]

I agree that everything stated about rotating is relevant, but only if one of the main goals of the class is to make the students able to dance well with a lot of different people. not everyone has that goal - even among 'serious' students.
Good point tsb, and quite applicable to the sitiuation in which I will be teaching.