routine memorization

[violalips]

hi everyone!

I wanted to know if anyone here has a problem remembering routines and steps or is it just me. As you may have surmised, I am a beginner :-) and I go completely blank when a routine is presented....is this a general memorization problem or is picking up choreography a skill? :confused:

dance away!

[meow]

Hi. :D As a beginner, I wouldn't worry too much. If you get stressed you will find it harder to remember steps. Some pick up steps quicker than others. Go over and over the steps. It really is just a matter of enjoyment and practice.
Welcome to DF. Compared to most, I am fairly new here too. But it is a fun place to be. Hope you stick around.

[quixotedlm]

Repeat after me, "The Quick Brown Fox Jumped Over The Lazy Dog".

Now ponder about this - why were you able to repeat it?
Likely because the individual words and the grammar are already very familiar to you, so the "pattern" is easy to repeat.

The same thing will happen with dancing also. You will get used to the vocabulary of the dancing and start developing a mental image of the grammar of dancing, and then learning routines will become more intuitive.

It will still be hard work, akin to memorizing your dialogues in a play which can be burdensome if there is a lot of sentences to memorize. But at that point, it would have become a lot more tractable than now.

The best way to get better at this is to keep doing it...


And no, we don't have any problems learning routines. It comes easy, and most of us are good at learning 5-hour long performances in 2-3 tries. That's because we've all been working on this stuff for almost 3 months now and are no longer beginners... ;)

Welcome to DF!

[etp777]

practice practice practice. In smaller parts, first, then slowly putting it all together (allong lines of what quixoted said about knowing the individual words making the sentence easy).

Also, don't stress out too much. if you just aren't getting something, and you're getting too upset/stressed, stop right there. Do another step, go do something else completely (grabbing a drink is GREAT way to stop the stress ;) ) whatever. Just don't let yourself get too overwhelemed or upset about something, or you'll never be happy andwon't get the routine down ever.

[Laura]

It will get easier over time. As a beginner, you are not only learning how to dance, but you are also learning how to learn how to dance!

[waltzgirl]

It helps to take notes right after your class or lesson and to practice in between. But it will get easier!

[SPratt74]

Like what was said above, I have gotten into the habit of writing down the steps after my instructor gives them to me at the end of our lessons. Even when he throws in something new, I'll write it down just to have it in my notes, and I'll ask him to review those steps that I don't know later at a different lesson. It's just an idea, but it's helped me to have something to look back on since I do have a lot of time between each of our lessons. ;)

[Angel HI]

It will get easier over time. As a beginner, you are not only learning how to dance, but you are also learning how to learn how to dance!

Laura's is a profound statement. Further....

Don't fall into the trap of believing that BR (ballroom) is about steps. BR, as all dance, is about movement. Natural Movement.
When learning a new move (step), don't look first at the steps...look first at the entire movement.
See where this move is going. Chances are, that the body already has some idea of how to get there..whether it is right or wrong by BR standards is irrelevant.
Afterwards, you will more easily learn the 'steps' that happened the movement.Welcome to the DF. There are many here who will help your dancing experience grow into a great one.

[o2bbtr]

My problem is not necessarily remembering the steps, its the movement that accompanies it. When one is practicing by oneself - how can you develop the sense necessary when accompanied by a partner - in terms or leading her - when you have no clue what you are doing. This point of movement is really troubling me and causing me to question whether I have the necessary skills to be more than passable. How/where can I learn more about what is trying to be conveyed in the step.

[quixotedlm]

you need to practice with a partner then.

when you are a beginner, why is it bothersome to you that your skills are only 'passable'? that's the whole point of practice and learning - to start from incompetence and grow into competence.

[etp777]

Ah, another perfectionist. "Perfect or nothing!" Stick with it.

And yes, you can't properly practice lead without someone in front of you. But you also can't properly lead a step (at least to my mind), unless you know where you're going, and can do it yourself. Was watching another guy get ready for his bronze test yesterday, and he was having real trouble doing the steps by himself. Realized that though he looks good dancing with his pros, I've never seen him dancing anything but the most basic social steps with anyone else (with pros, he's actually a more advanced dancer than I am, testing bronze intermediate to advanced). Makes me wonder how much he's actually leading, and how much pros are doing. Not my place to ask, but have suspicions.

Another thing that working stuff on your own will help is balance. There are certainly some steps where you're working off each other, but your balance can't depend solely on other person. That's one I particularly have trouble with, esp some waltz steps.

[o2bbtr]

Right.

In order to grow from incompetence to competence there needs to be an understanding of what is occurring. I guess what is troubling me is not understanding what should be conveyed by the movement - not that these steps string together to form a routine - but the overall story that is attempting to be told - or am i being way too analytical.

[etp777]

You'll get it. It will take a LONG time is all. You sound a ot like me, and no real way to fix it but to just be patient and keep at it. Esp. as there's no way you can understand all the cause and effect, and technique, etc, all at first grasp. Your teacher will continue to go back and add new refinements and new layers of technique to stuff you thought you already knew and had down. Just did that with pro and manager yesterday as part of my test critique, getitng deeper into specifics of rise and fall in waltz.

[Laura]

My problem is not necessarily remembering the steps, its the movement that accompanies it. When one is practicing by oneself - how can you develop the sense necessary when accompanied by a partner - in terms or leading her - when you have no clue what you are doing. This point of movement is really troubling me and causing me to question whether I have the necessary skills to be more than passable. How/where can I learn more about what is trying to be conveyed in the step.
This is part of the learning how to learn thing. If you're going to practice by yourself, at least you can memorize all the steps and directions and timing until they become second nature. You can also work on your balance. This frees up brain space to work on really paying attention to the leading and other partnering skills when you get a chance to work with another person.

It takes a while to develop dancing skills, you just have to chip away at it bit by bit. Don't get discouraged, even though it can be overwhelming at times.

As far as the "story being told," I don't get your question. It's partner dancing, two people dancing together to the same music. Make up your own story, put your own feelings into it, whatever mental pictures you find help you to create the effect you want. It's not like you're being asked to dance "Swan Lake" or something.

[jhpark]

I'm awful at memorizing sequences of steps. It doesn't matter if I know all the individual components to the routine, if they want me to remember what order to put more than 4 moves in, I'm lost...

I'll never join a dance troupe. But I do love to social dance. :)

Fortunately, in most classes they call out the next step in advance.

[o2bbtr]

thanks. This Sounds (looks) like this it is a pretty good site. Looking forward to future dialogue

[quixotedlm]

thanks. This Sounds (looks) like this it is a pretty good site. Looking forward to future dialogue


by definition, a state of incompetence is a state when you don't know how to do a thing, and you don't know how to evaluate the quality of your own work (because you don't know that thing). it's a a state where you don't have your bearings. So you depend on others (teachers, advanced peers) for feedback and learn from the environment (follower is smiling good, follower neutral is ok, follower looking bored/upset - not good) and advance to a point where you know enough to judge yourself and start furthering your learning and your ability to judge yourself better in tandem.

this is a standard chicken-and-egg problem in learning anything new... not specific to dancing.

[Angel HI]

My problem is not necessarily remembering the steps, its the movement that accompanies it.

Please, go back and reread my post #8. At the risk of sounding egotistical, I am adamant about it. The last 2 bullets 'will' help you. ETP777 is most correct in the following...

...you can't properly practice lead without someone in front of you. But you also can't properly lead a step (at least to my mind), unless you know where you're going, and can do it yourself.

Unless you are a complete klutz, who trips over his own feet after every step :rolleyes: *jest*, your body has an inate sense of balance that it has developed since you were a baby. This balance is defined by, and can be made better or worse by, things like build, posture, weight, gait, etc. (which I believe identifying and correcting, if necessary, is partially what Laura refers to when she speaks of the learning curve).

She furthers to say....

Make up your own story, put your own feelings into it...It's not like you're being asked to dance "Swan Lake" or something.

Which is what happens when you allow yourself to follow the last 2 bullets we've talked about. In my classes, I refer to this as learning dance from the inside out (meaning your natural body movement put to dance), rather than from the outside in (meaning pre-prescribed steps and patterns forcing you to conform to some other sense of norm).

There is one thing that I must add to Laura's post, though. Know that each dance has a uniqueness that it brings to the floor. Every dance has a story to tell that is preset. This isto say, that a good dancer will not miss or dismiss this. The plot, however, is up to you. This is what I perceive her to mean.

[Angel HI]

Though, I am enjoying the discussion, and hope that o2bbtr is getting the help needed. ...wonder what happened to the OP?

[SlowDancer]

I can memorize a routine fairly quickly, but I can forget just as quickly...it was the same for me when I played classical piano. Even though I played at a fairly high level for many years, I doubt that I could sit down at the piano today and play more than a couple of phrases of anything by memory.

So everyone's memorizing style and capacity is different. I envy anyone who can memorize something and have it really "stick."

[Vince A]

Repeat it . . . muscle memory is what makes you remember it, then when you go to bed at night . . . before you go to sleep . . . play it back in your mind 25,000 times . . . you'll get it eventually!

[o2bbtr]

Angel HI - this has been extremely helpful. Thanks fo rall those who have posted.

Wat does OP mean?

[etp777]

Original Poster.

[and123]

Original Poster.

and Outside Partner :cool::p

[etp777]

hahah, indeed. :)

<pro>But remember, just because it's OP doesn't mean you can break frame. Don't let that right shoulder break back!</pro>

[violalips]

I'm awful at memorizing sequences of steps. It doesn't matter if I know all the individual components to the routine, if they want me to remember what order to put more than 4 moves in, I'm lost...

I'll never join a dance troupe. But I do love to social dance. :)

Fortunately, in most classes they call out the next step in advance.


This is exactly me!!!! However, being a beginner and all i can't give you any advice ...im totally lost myself. I am sticking to members' advice that time and practice will do the trick and I believe it is all about learning the language of basic dance and then moving on from that. It seems that most members here are involved in partner-dancing, and I am mostly in modern/jazz/hip-hop (I prefer to call it pop :)) but i did take ballroom classes some years ago and found ballroom dancing easier to follow than solo dancing :S

anyways, good luck...

and thank you all for the good advice. somehow i was under the impression dancers are snobby. could i be projecting???:p

[una_chica_jb]

I also have problem to remember routines. But I'm dancing 8 years already. If I do something wrong, I panic and then forget everything I've planed to show :)

[elisedance]

Is it harder for a follower to learn a routine than a leader? I'm immersed in learning a lot of steps in a short time and have found it rahter a challenge. It occured to me tha leaders may simply be better trained at routine memorization as they are generally responsible for the direction of the dance.

[fascination]

hmmm...I used to have a rough time in the latin dances...whereas I can recall my patterns well on a travelling dance...and only dancing pro/am I always assumed the gent had an easier time of that b/c he constructed the pattern...dunno...interesting question though...btw, i find taping then writting it down in detail, then simplifing it to keywords really helps me....and er...I just had to learn 21 new routines....

[elisedance]

21!!! Open level???

Its sort of frustrating at first since when you are in the mid point of learning them you dance much worse. When they are new I just go into follow mode and my dancing is good, even if I make step errors. After they are learned you do the best of course but in the middle period I dance awfully as my dancing is sabotaged by my attempts to remember where we are going. hate that period :)

[Angel HI]

I just had to learn 21 new routines....

:applause: Please send me your memory program. I need it badly. :confused:

[Lioness]

Is it harder for a follower to learn a routine than a leader? I'm immersed in learning a lot of steps in a short time and have found it rahter a challenge. It occured to me tha leaders may simply be better trained at routine memorization as they are generally responsible for the direction of the dance.

This seems like the case with my partner and me, as he can pick up routines by watching them and then dancing them through once. I rely on his lead for about the first 5 times and then I pretty much have it.

[pinkstuff]

I've assumed it is a leader thing (or man thing???) to be able to learn the routine. My pro seems to have an amazing memory for the routines - thought initially that may be all the students have the same routine but doesn't appear to be the case. My mind at times doesn't want to recall the steps at all. Not sure if this is because I've spent so long trying to make sure my following is better and not to just do the routine because I know it, without following and so have subconciously tried not to recall. Drives my Pro mad!!! :)

[elisedance]

thats exactly it PS. My mind is trained NOT to remember routines - I have to go wherever DP takes me. OTOH I also have to know the routine for competition since you can't afford mistakes and I think it does allow you to focus at a different level (though not sure if the dancing is actually any better - different thread!).

[fascination]

:applause: Please send me your memory program. I need it badly. :confused:
well the terror of NOT learning it is the motivator...then, as I said, i watch them ad nauseum, write them down in detail in my own language...then i shorten that to ke word that stimulate my memory...then I dance around with those notes(flash cards) til i dont' need them anymore

[nucat78]

Is it harder for a follower to learn a routine than a leader?

Not sure about that. I have to remember the routine AND remember to LEAD. Move my left hand the wrong way and *boom* - where the heck is she going???

[elisedance]

Not sure about that. I have to remember the routine AND remember to LEAD. Move my left hand the wrong way and *boom* - where the heck is she going???

I didn't mean that exactly, just the routine itself. Leads are always thinking about steps and how to get from one step to another - thus I think you have much more extensive sequences in your head than followers who have to be able to drop any learned sequence at a moments notice.

I think I just answered my own question!! :rolleyes::cool:

[pruthe]

well the terror of NOT learning it is the motivator...then, as I said, i watch them ad nauseum, write them down in detail in my own language...then i shorten that to ke word that stimulate my memory...then I dance around with those notes(flash cards) til i dont' need them anymore

That's an interesting way to memorize your routine steps using keywords. Is this something your pro suggested to you or something you came up with? A problem I have in memorizing steps is that I tend to learn them in the context of a surrounding environment. For example, I learn routine steps thinking of a front, back, and 2 sides of room. Usually start in back right side of room. Everything in my mind is relative to one of 4 front/back corners. When I dance the routine in a new venue, my mind picks a front and back and I'm usually able to complete routine with no problem. But when I try and start routine sequence from a different start point (e.g. front left), I have problems remembering. I'm thinking your keyword technique might help overcome this. Anyway, I think I'll give it a try. Thanks.

pruthe

p.s. Can't imagine remembering 21 routines.

[mamboqueen]

My big problem is that when we do them in the studio, certain segments are often in the mirror...and so that makes the side-by-side stuff somewhat easy, but I'm getting too reliant on the mirror. I have a huge fear of doing jive without the mirror now. For me, memorizing is not really a problem...but I do videotape and constantly review.

[etp777]

Heh, MQ, buddy teacher was just saying same thing about our tango showcase this past friday. With all the oepn work, and the three of us, she had gotten used to using mirror to help line up some of the things. When we did the number at the competition, olf course, didn't have the mirrors to help. SO made things different.

[Stagekat]

Heh, MQ, buddy teacher was just saying same thing about our tango showcase this past friday. With all the oepn work, and the three of us, she had gotten used to using mirror to help line up some of the things. When we did the number at the competition, olf course, didn't have the mirrors to help. SO made things different.


Just another argument for me to continue not using the mirrors. :-)

[and123]

MQ, clear your PMs. I'm trying to send you something :cool:

[njdancegirl]

My big problem is that when we do them in the studio, certain segments are often in the mirror...and so that makes the side-by-side stuff somewhat easy, but I'm getting too reliant on the mirror. I have a huge fear of doing jive without the mirror now. For me, memorizing is not really a problem...but I do videotape and constantly review.

I'm beginning to see this is as a problem as well...I am watching myself - and him even more so that I may copy - in cha and jive side by side steps.

Have two more lessons before comp this weekend and will suggest tonight that we do side by side pieces facing a wall without mirrors. Having never done either of these routines in competition, am hoping this won't be a problem.

[mamboqueen]

MQ, clear your PMs. I'm trying to send you something :cool:

thanks...cleaned it out!

[mamboqueen]

I'm beginning to see this is as a problem as well...I am watching myself - and him even more so that I may copy - in cha and jive side by side steps.

Have two more lessons before comp this weekend and will suggest tonight that we do side by side pieces facing a wall without mirrors. Having never done either of these routines in competition, am hoping this won't be a problem.

yeah, we're probably going to have to switch rooms, the alternative is that I'm dancing to the people outside *LOL*. It's certainly good to be able to see what you're doing, but sometimes I take the lead right out of the mirror :)

Which day are you competing? Will send you some of my positive vibes!

[mamboqueen]

thanks...cleaned it out!

you just made my day!

[njdancegirl]

yeah, we're probably going to have to switch rooms, the alternative is that I'm dancing to the people outside *LOL*. It's certainly good to be able to see what you're doing, but sometimes I take the lead right out of the mirror :)

Which day are you competing? Will send you some of my positive vibes!

Should hopefully find out more this afternoon, but looks like some time on Friday morning...need many positive vibes for this one, MQ!

[etp777]

Just another argument for me to continue not using the mirrors. :-)

You go ahead and try that argument with him. Let me know how that goes. :)

[fascination]

That's an interesting way to memorize your routine steps using keywords. Is this something your pro suggested to you or something you came up with? A problem I have in memorizing steps is that I tend to learn them in the context of a surrounding environment. For example, I learn routine steps thinking of a front, back, and 2 sides of room. Usually start in back right side of room. Everything in my mind is relative to one of 4 front/back corners. When I dance the routine in a new venue, my mind picks a front and back and I'm usually able to complete routine with no problem. But when I try and start routine sequence from a different start point (e.g. front left), I have problems remembering. I'm thinking your keyword technique might help overcome this. Anyway, I think I'll give it a try. Thanks.

pruthe

p.s. Can't imagine remembering 21 routines.
it is my own strategy...it helps me to own it...in fact when NP saw my flash cards I think he was fairly amused...but it helps...and I own my dancing which is nice...unless of course he decides to do something else...which he is prone to doing

[etp777]

I do the same thing as Fasc, and all the pros who've seen it seem impressed/like the idea.

Only problem is when I abbreviate too much/can'[t remember what I mean by a keyword. :)

[Stagekat]

You go ahead and try that argument with him. Let me know how that goes. :)

Had it, have it on a regular basis... I do get to win that one some of the time... when we do mirror work.. I just watch him and mimic ;)

[flashdance]

I've always memorised routines in pictures - always have done for anything since I was a little bunny.

For instance when I think of pepper mint foot lotion rub I think of elisedance :lol:

[Angel HI]

Probably all of us (pros) have just learned how to learn/memorize routines...either by training or longevity. I just happen to have an extensive stage/screen background where learning/memorizing scripts was the same thing. We have many of the same types of techs/tricks that Fasc mentioned, and others.

I have found that all good choero tells a story. Albeit not in the same way as a script, the dance has to make dance sense (something many newer choreos miss/lack). When learning a routine, don't treat it as a series of steps...treat it as a conversation...a story...find the meaning of the choreo from beginning to end, and it will be easier to "recite".

[nucat78]

Try using a phrase like, "Oh boy, a fine girl. Kiss me".

Stellar classifications. OBAFGKM from hottest blue white stars (Class O) to the coolest red dwarfs (Class M). (Yeah, I left out Classes W, R, N, and S if you're a purist. Then it's "Wow! Oh boy, a fine girl! Kiss me right now, Sweetie.")

Med students use mnemonics like that for anatomy classes, etc.

[Angel HI]

Stellar classifications. OBAFGKM from hottest blue white stars (Class O) to the coolest red dwarfs (Class M). (Yeah, I left out Classes W, R, N, and S if you're a purist. Then it's "Wow! Oh boy, a fine girl! Kiss me right now, Sweetie.")

Or...... Oh Boy, All Figures Got Kinda Messy! Aagh! Routine's a blank. :p

Just having some fun.

[elisedance]

Try using a phrase like, "Oh boy, a fine girl. Kiss me".

Stellar classifications. OBAFGKM from hottest blue white stars (Class O) to the coolest red dwarfs (Class M). (Yeah, I left out Classes W, R, N, and S if you're a purist. Then it's "Wow! Oh boy, a fine girl! Kiss me right now, Sweetie.")

Med students use mnemonics like that for anatomy classes, etc.

Oookaaay. So now I know where the stars on the ceiling of the studio are and my body parts. How exactly does that help me to learn the routine? :p

Actually, I think my current difficulty (thinking it over some more) is that there are a bunch of new steps in there too so I don't have a mnemonic or even a cortical column reserved for them to integrate into the routine.

[_malakawa_]

when it comes to memorizing a routine, well i used to memorize my, female steps, and my partners steps.

i don't have problems with routines, I memorize a steps if you show them to me once or twice.

[nucat78]

I don't have a mnemonic or even a cortical column reserved for them to integrate into the routine.

I prefer the look of Corinthian columns.

"Buona sera, Signorina, kiss me goodnight..."

[pruthe]

Boy, this thread is really getting deep ...

[waltzgirl]

At the risk of being heretical, why, as a follower, do you need to memorize a routine? Of course, you need to be able to do the footwork and approximate the sway, shaping, etc. of every pattern in the routine on your own, to be sure that you can do them correctly and that you are fully dancing your own part. But why do you have to memorize the order of the patterns? Especially in smooth/standard, when they are likely to change in competition anyway and you need to be able to follow whatever your leader does.

I can't say I have memorized my routines, in the sense of being able to recite the names of each pattern in order or of doing the whole routine by myself, and I don't feel the need to (nor does my pro ask me to). I "know" the routine in various ways. For one thing, for me, the feel of the lead is an integral part of my muscle memory of each step and to learn the routine with the leads removed seems to me like trying to memorize a poem by learning only the last half of each line. You can do it, but it doesn't make much sense. I also "know" the general shape the routine traces on the floor. Those kinds of knowing, plus a deep familiarity with the routine from endless repetition, seems to work just fine for me. I truly don't see anything I'm missing, and this approach has the benefit that I never have the slightest problem when floorcraft forces a change in the routine--sometimes I don't even notice that it's happened, unless my pro mentions it after the dance.

[etp777]

Waltzgirl, I was thinking same thing, but worried that I'd jsut get told I don't understand following and to staay on my own side of the hold. :)

[elisedance]

At the risk of being heretical, why, as a follower, do you need to memorize a routine? Of course, you need to be able to do the footwork and approximate the sway, shaping, etc. of every pattern in the routine on your own, to be sure that you can do them correctly and that you are fully dancing your own part. But why do you have to memorize the order of the patterns? Especially in smooth/standard, when they are likely to change in competition anyway and you need to be able to follow whatever your leader does.

I can't say I have memorized my routines, in the sense of being able to recite the names of each pattern in order or of doing the whole routine by myself, and I don't feel the need to (nor does my pro ask me to). I "know" the routine in various ways. For one thing, for me, the feel of the lead is an integral part of my muscle memory of each step and to learn the routine with the leads removed seems to me like trying to memorize a poem by learning only the last half of each line. You can do it, but it doesn't make much sense. I also "know" the general shape the routine traces on the floor. Those kinds of knowing, plus a deep familiarity with the routine from endless repetition, seems to work just fine for me. I truly don't see anything I'm missing, and this approach has the benefit that I never have the slightest problem when floorcraft forces a change in the routine--sometimes I don't even notice that it's happened, unless my pro mentions it after the dance.

You (and etp) are, of course, right - as a goal anyway. And when it comes to the competition the routine is rather useless once you have more than three or four couples on the floor or, as is often the case, the floor is a different shape or size than the one you prepared on. This is all right - and its exactly how I learn and dance.

Its getting there that the routine is necessary for. As I mentioned a few posts back, its not really just a question of a routine (which would be a different order of steps you have mastered) but of learning a new routine together with new steps and new step connections in one big hurry. For that I need to know a bit about what is coming up - and please don't suggest that I should patiently learn each step and learn each connection - I will probably have at most 6 lessons before Ohio when I have to be at least competent in my dances. The fastest way for me to learn that I can think of is as whole routines - though naturally these are broken into step sequences that are very likely to be danced together.

Does that make more sense?

[waltzgirl]

Oh, sorry, I missed the emergency aspect of it. In that case (or as I do for performance routines, which I do memorize):

videotape it
make notes on each new pattern and repeat them endlessly
make a list of the patterns in order and memorize it

I find it easier to focus on getting each separate pattern into my muscle memory and mentally memorize a list of how they go, then somehow try to memorize a whole routine as one thing.

[etp777]

ED, I missed that part too. Hope ya don't think I was saying you were wrong, as certainly not. :)

And of course, straight following doesn't take into account open routines, which often HAVE to have memorization. Or showcases for that matter.

[fascination]

At the risk of being heretical, why, as a follower, do you need to memorize a routine? Of course, you need to be able to do the footwork and approximate the sway, shaping, etc. of every pattern in the routine on your own, to be sure that you can do them correctly and that you are fully dancing your own part. But why do you have to memorize the order of the patterns? Especially in smooth/standard, when they are likely to change in competition anyway and you need to be able to follow whatever your leader does.

I can't say I have memorized my routines, in the sense of being able to recite the names of each pattern in order or of doing the whole routine by myself, and I don't feel the need to (nor does my pro ask me to). I "know" the routine in various ways. For one thing, for me, the feel of the lead is an integral part of my muscle memory of each step and to learn the routine with the leads removed seems to me like trying to memorize a poem by learning only the last half of each line. You can do it, but it doesn't make much sense. I also "know" the general shape the routine traces on the floor. Those kinds of knowing, plus a deep familiarity with the routine from endless repetition, seems to work just fine for me. I truly don't see anything I'm missing, and this approach has the benefit that I never have the slightest problem when floorcraft forces a change in the routine--sometimes I don't even notice that it's happened, unless my pro mentions it after the dance.agree...my advice was WRT a starting point for alot of new info in a short time...NP has about as many excepttion sto what he does as he has rules...but some initial ownership of possibilities allows for a better understanding of what might happen

[elisedance]

ED, I missed that part too. Hope ya don't think I was saying you were wrong, as certainly not. :)


Its OK ETP - I'm tough I can take it ;) In fact, you would be right if you said I was wrong - up to a point and that is....

QUOTE=etp777;616493]
And of course, straight following doesn't take into account open routines, which often HAVE to have memorization. Or showcases for that matter.[/QUOTE]

These are all open routines!! So much of it you are dancing steps that have to be executed in synchrony rather than by straignt lead and follow - QS is perhaps the best example. I'm quite good at following forxtrot, even in open and OK at waltz and Tango - but QS i really have to have an idea what comes next - so its learning to follow a sequence at a time.

And now I'm starting to panic. breathe s-l-o-w-l-y...

[Angel HI]

Good post, WG, http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=616403&postcount=60 w/ the following addition....

....open routines!! So much of it you are dancing steps that have to be executed in synchrony rather than by straignt lead and follow ...

[tanya_the_dancer]

At the risk of being heretical, why, as a follower, do you need to memorize a routine? Of course, you need to be able to do the footwork and approximate the sway, shaping, etc. of every pattern in the routine on your own, to be sure that you can do them correctly and that you are fully dancing your own part. But why do you have to memorize the order of the patterns? Especially in smooth/standard, when they are likely to change in competition anyway and you need to be able to follow whatever your leader does.

I can't say I have memorized my routines, in the sense of being able to recite the names of each pattern in order or of doing the whole routine by myself, and I don't feel the need to (nor does my pro ask me to). I "know" the routine in various ways. For one thing, for me, the feel of the lead is an integral part of my muscle memory of each step and to learn the routine with the leads removed seems to me like trying to memorize a poem by learning only the last half of each line. You can do it, but it doesn't make much sense. I also "know" the general shape the routine traces on the floor. Those kinds of knowing, plus a deep familiarity with the routine from endless repetition, seems to work just fine for me. I truly don't see anything I'm missing, and this approach has the benefit that I never have the slightest problem when floorcraft forces a change in the routine--sometimes I don't even notice that it's happened, unless my pro mentions it after the dance.

I am in the same camp. I try to keep memorization to minimum. Even with a showcase, sometimes if we do it in a different room, we have to make an adjustment for its shape, for example, and I have to be ready for it. And with the competition routines, anything can happen there. We had our routines written down at some point. I don't think we ever danced them at a competition as they were written down.

[Standarddancer]

It will definitely gets easier when you get more experience although some people have stronger ability to memorize routines than others. I can learn and memorize routine quite quickly, however my DP changes routines quite often, so as follower, I have no choice but to follow the change, he's the one in charge of choreography and improvise.

Some teacher don't recommend change choreo so often but others encourage doing so. It did happened to me at practice and comps that since routine has been changed so many times so I got confused at certain points, and my brain blanks out resulting missing steps; the tricks to it is to be very much on your feet, maintain a strong spine/center, and be sensitive to your partner. And practice a lot.

The more experienced you are, the easier to learn choreo and more capable of following and anticipating alteration of choreo in case you encounter bad floor problems at comps.

p.s. also relax while following, don't stress out or freak out, the more relaxed you are, the more sensitivity you could have to follow your partner's lead, stress could cause your body being very stiff, not mobile, making following more difficult.