It's Harder to find right pro/am teacher than am partner or teacher

[etp777]

I may very well be wrong, but read my logic first, please. :) Then looking for all the input I can get.

Pro/am teacher/partner, am partner, or teacher, we're always looking for a good dancer. With a teacher, we're looking for something more though. We're looking for the right teaching style for our learning style. I know that I and each of my parents all have a differnet learning style (which I'm sure makes their lessons interesting as they compete and train as a couple). So teacher, we're looking for best teaching style to fit our learning style.

Am partner (or partner in general), again, we're looking for a good dancer, but we're looking for personality. Partners need the right personality match to be able to have best connection possible on the floor. You can take two best dancers in world, but if they don't have the proper connection, something will be missing on the floor, even if they're technically perfect. Dance is a physical expression of an emotion of each dancer, and an expression of the connection between the two dancers, and how those emotions interact.

With a pro/am teacher/partner though, you're looking for both. Now, pro/am teachers are certainly common enough (not being derogatory at all. Love my pro, and my sister and friends are all pro/am teachers). But to find the BEST pro/am teacher for a particular person, is hard as heck. You need to find the best combination of teaching style that matches you, AND the right personality match to get best connection possible on the floor. Now if a student is just looking to learn for social dancing, they're only looking for the one. Again, if you aren't really interested in competing, the match is less than important. But if you're looking to learn as much dance (and technique, not just steps) as possible, AND to compete as well as possible, I'd argue that you would find it harder to find the right pro/am teacher than you'd have finding an am partner.

Now of course, this is all speaking generally, any one person in particular might have harder time on something else.

Now feel free to prove me wrong. :)

[croaker]

I would say that amateur competitions and pro/am comps are completely different animals, and
people who compete in either probably have different goals and expectations from their dancing career.
So, perhaps on the surface you are correct, but I can't imagine anybody looking for a career
(or if not a career than something very close to it) as a pro/am student, while amateur competitors
above certain level are probably dancing and practicing more than casually, even if they are not
looking to become pro.

[etp777]

That is certainly true, and a flip-side of it. Am partners are pulling from a much smaller pool, and have very different goals.

THis is type of feedback I was looking for. :)

Sister thinks I'm crazy because I said I'd try all the local teachers if my pro quits while I'm out of country. I think her opinion was that my methods were overboard. She pointed out in past that I had choice o f any FA studio in the the area, I think her complaint was my plan to do two lessons with every pro in area to find best match for me. :)

But as I said, looking for both best teacher, and best match for connection on the floor. I have some tough competition in age bracket in this region, even just in closed FA comps. I need every advantage I can get. :)

[Katarzyna]

As improtant as teaching styles are, learning styles will be important with an am partner.. Some people dont improve well together as they have different ways of learning and practicing.. so All the things you applied to learning styles with pro am teacher also apply between an am am couple.. THe only thing is teh teacher might try harder to make it work for a student than a partner will.. Of course depending on a partnership..

[etp777]

I hadn't thought of that. Part of reason I love this site, can learn from experience of so many people (if you're willing and able to apply the lessons). Thanks both of you. :) Though certainly not trying to stop the conversation. Hopefully someday I'll do am comps in addition to pro/am (not leaving my pro any time soon. :) )

[croaker]

That is certainly true, and a flip-side of it. Am partners are pulling from a much smaller pool, and have very different goals.

THis is type of feedback I was looking for. :)

Sister thinks I'm crazy because I said I'd try all the local teachers if my pro quits while I'm out of country. I think her opinion was that my methods were overboard. She pointed out in past that I had choice o f any FA studio in the the area, I think her complaint was my plan to do two lessons with every pro in area to find best match for me. :)

But as I said, looking for both best teacher, and best match for connection on the floor. I have some tough competition in age bracket in this region, even just in closed FA comps. I need every advantage I can get. :)
I think it's a good idea, though I would try to make it look less like a shopping spree
:p
Teachers are human and they enjoy teaching loyal students more and put more
into the lessons in that case IMHO.
Why are you limiting yourself to FA studios only?

[etp777]

All my friends are FA teachers, parents are FA students, sister is FA teacher. I'm definitely sticking with FA.

But advantage is, I know all the teachers in region already, and hang out with most of them outside studio (EXCEPT teachesr from studio I'm taking lessons at. That's rule, I won't hang out with teachers from my studio. Don't even talk to them about anything but dance when at studio). But because I know them, already have friendship so can explain why I'm shopping, and shouldnt' be a problem. One exception would be one I think might have a crush on me, but hopefully pro won't quit, and hoepfully by then teacher in question won't have a crush anymore, if it comes to that. :)

[waltzgirl]

I can't imagine anybody looking for a career
(or if not a career than something very close to it) as a pro/am student, while amateur competitors
above certain level are probably dancing and practicing more than casually, even if they are not
looking to become pro.

a) I know several pros who began their dance careers as pro-am students.

b) many pro-am students dance and practice "more than casually."

[etp777]

That's true too. KNow several pros locally who started as pro/am studnets, including friend i mentioned in another thread who starts teaching monday(been trianing for a month).

And I'm in studio every day, whether I have lesson or gropu or not, will always practice. No actual plans to do anything besides pro/am, and good chance I'll even take a year off, but still in there practicing every week day, and even try to get in on weekends (though no one was around this saturday when I went in).

[croaker]

a) I know several pros who began their dance careers as pro-am students.

b) many pro-am students dance and practice "more than casually."
a) That's exactly what I said. I know quite a few youth/junior dancers who
dance pro/am but consider it only a stepping stone until they find an amateur partner,
and in the future perhaps turn pro. I know of no young dancer who's planning to dance
pro/am for the rest of her/his life.
b) Are they planning to stay pro/am? If so, I find it hard to believe many of them practice as hard as the kids who plan to be the next Eugine and Maria.

[etp777]

Some of us are perfectionists regardless of level. ;)

now I'm distracted though, as only know one other student at studio who practices outside of lessons. Problem is she's a cute asian girl, I should talk to her more often, haven't talked to her since one of first days she was in studio. was in today though but was usual shy self and didn't say anything.

But anyway, back on topic. Do am partners learn a lot from each other (or one from the other, rather), or do they tend to be more evenly matched, and learn from working with coaches?

[SlowDancer]

One thing you didn't mention is that in looking for the perfect pro-am pro, you must consider whether it's a good physical match. I'm taller than average and am surrounded by short male pros at my studio, including the pro I've been with for a while. That's one reason I'm enjoying dancing with my new country western pro so much...he's perfect for me height and body-type-wise. Now if I could just get him to move to my city so I wouldn't have to drive a zillion miles for lessons...but I digress.

[SlowDancer]

Plus he's a wonderful dancer and teacher...and his teaching style works for me.

[etp777]

Ah, very good point, slowdancer, though that applieis to am partners too. :) But yeah, studio manager was commenting on that at our nationals comp, how good my pro and one of students look together height wise (and pro and me, since I'm approximately same height as student in question). One of points that actually worked outu well f or me with random assignment of pro to me. "best" teacher at studio at time, who I would have asked for if it had been upt o me, is 8-12 inches taller than me. She's amazing at adjusting for that, but never would have looked as good dancing with her as I do with my current pro. Height, body type, etc, are just a much better match.

[etp777]

Slowdancer, sounds like you're about as biased about your pro as I am about mine. :)

[samina]

i've got a great pro/am match with my instructor. serendipitously. good fit on a number of levels, and feel very fortunate.

[croaker]

Some of us are perfectionists regardless of level. ;)

now I'm distracted though, as only know one other student at studio who practices outside of lessons. Problem is she's a cute asian girl, I should talk to her more often, haven't talked to her since one of first days she was in studio. was in today though but was usual shy self and didn't say anything.

But anyway, back on topic. Do am partners learn a lot from each other (or one from the other, rather), or do they tend to be more evenly matched, and learn from working with coaches?
Go for it! :mrgreen:
On the topic - none of my former partners ever hesitated to try to teach me something
regardless of the level matching :rolleyes: Learning from them was no problem, getting
them to shu..ugh...give it a break that's the true challenge :p

[meow]

Go for it! :mrgreen:
On the topic - none of my former partners ever hesitated to try to teach me something
regardless of the level matching :rolleyes: Learning from them was no problem, getting
them to shu..ugh...give it a break that's the true challenge :p

I can only speak about am/am - dancers have tryouts to see how they feel about dancing together. Sometimes they have a few. They also talk about their goals, the coaches they have and may be willing to try, competitions (how many and where), travel, and to see if they like each other.
There is no point in starting an am partnership with someone you don't like. It won't last and if you make it to the comp floor, it certainly won't be successful.
As for teaching each other, I think that, to a degree, is just human nature. In communicating with others we often give a point of view - that is the same as dancers. The hard part is when there is a difference of opinion, say in the technique of a move. Then, instead of arguing, it is best to leave it alone and together consult the coach.
And of course, avoiding the 'blame game' when things go wrong.
I think that it would be a huge no-no to have a difference of opinion or play the 'blame game' within a pro/am partnership.:raisebro:

[Fouette]

I think that it would be a huge no-no to have a difference of opinion or play the 'blame game' within a pro/am partnership.:raisebro:

Oh, but it happens a lot more often than you would think in pro-am... :-)

[Laura]

But to find the BEST pro/am teacher for a particular person, is hard as heck. You need to find the best combination of teaching style that matches you, AND the right personality match to get best connection possible on the floor.

Well, I've been at this for quite a long time, and although I follow your logic, you left out one important detail: Pro/Am is a business, and a good Pro/Am teacher is a business professional, and as such most of them won't turn you down for lessons because you are (in their opinion) too old, too young, too tall, too short, too fat, live too far away, are married, are not pretty enough, don't know enough about dancing yet, can't do enough with your dancing yet etc. This makes it *easier* to find a Pro/Am teacher to compete with -- all a prospective student has to have is the time and the money, and they can find themselves a good teacher and make it "go" from there.

[meow]

Oh, but it happens a lot more often than you would think in pro-am... :-)

Seriously? Wouldn't the Pro take that as disrespectful, as in the student questioning the teacher?:shock:
As we don't have pro/am, the coaches here wouldn't like that much at all. They will discuss things but they are 'right'.

[Laura]

I think that it would be a huge no-no to have a difference of opinion or play the 'blame game' within a pro/am partnership.:raisebro:
Difference of opinion is one thing, and can lead to interesting explorations in learning, depending on how it is handled. As for the "blame game," I am not in favor of if for Pro/Am and I'm not in favor of it for peer-partnerships either.

[Laura]

Do am partners learn a lot from each other (or one from the other, rather), or do they tend to be more evenly matched, and learn from working with coaches?
Yes to all of the options you gave here. It all depends on the two people in the partnership, but all of the above is possible.

[wooh]

Well, I've been at this for quite a long time, and although I follow your logic, you left out one important detail: Pro/Am is a business, and a good Pro/Am teacher is a business professional, and as such most of them won't turn you down for lessons because you are (in their opinion) too old, too young, too tall, too short, too fat, live too far away, are married, are not pretty enough, don't know enough about dancing yet, can't do enough with your dancing yet etc. This makes it *easier* to find a Pro/Am teacher to compete with -- all a prospective student has to have is the time and the money, and they can find themselves a good teacher and make it "go" from there.

I've been waiting for that response. You may have to find a little more you like in your pro for pro/am, but the money you're paying them is going to make your faults a lot easier to ignore for them than for an am partner.:)

[Laura]

i've got a great pro/am match with my instructor. serendipitously. good fit on a number of levels, and feel very fortunate.
My teacher is way tall and has a very thin lanky body type. I am 10" shorter and zaftig. Yet somehow we make some interesting dancing happen. I think it shows just how talented he is that he can (a) dance with me and (b) teach me to dance better so as to improve point (a) here :) My previous teacher (who I was with for seven years) was the same height as my current teacher, so I'm used to dancing with tall men. In fact, if I dance with someone the "right" height for me, it feels all weird!

[meow]

Difference of opinion is one thing, and can lead to interesting explorations in learning, depending on how it is handled. As for the "blame game," I am not in favor of if for Pro/Am and I'm not in favor of it for peer-partnerships either.

I certainly don't play the 'blame game' as it is only destructive. Unfortunately, some dancers do and even though they know they shouldn't, they can't help themselves.
My point was that here a coach wouldn't put up with you disagreeing with what they are teaching you. You can always change teachers and they can change students. But, then we are not paying the large $$$$ to dance in pro/am.

[evanluck]

With a pro/am teacher/partner though, you're looking for both.:)

To have any kind of successful competitive dance situation, you need a great partner and a great coach. Most times dancing pro-am the pro serves as both but this does not necessarily have to be the case.

A friend of mine really enjoys competing with her pro-am partner. He is a great dancer and they are well matched together. However, he does not necessarily always have the right combination of patience, desire, and skill to teach her effectively. She gets most of her coaching from other coaches that she does not compete with.

Probably more expensive than the ideal scenario but they make it work.

[saludas]

Ah, very good point, slowdancer, though that applieis to am partners too. :) But yeah, studio manager was commenting on that at our nationals comp, how good my pro and one of students look together height wise (and pro and me, since I'm approximately same height as student in question). One of points that actually worked outu well f or me with random assignment of pro to me. "best" teacher at studio at time, who I would have asked for if it had been upt o me, is 8-12 inches taller than me. She's amazing at adjusting for that, but never would have looked as good dancing with her as I do with my current pro. Height, body type, etc, are just a much better match.

Honestly, it would have been foolish for your 'manager' to pair you with a taller teacher, but really, the "you look good with..." is hype.

Also, in chains, it's never 'random' assignment. it's based on many criteria, none of which have anything to do with you (such as seniority of teacher, hours thet work, other student's hours, etc).

[croaker]

As we don't have pro/am
You're lucky! Thankfully pro/am didn't take in Europe, or OZ:cheers:

[etp777]

Oh Laura, I don't deny that it's easy to find pro/am teacher, was arguing more that for BEST matchof pro/am teacher and student, it takes somemore work.

And evanluck, that's exactly what I meant by random, just that it had nothing to do with me. Definitely had nothing to do with how pro and I look together, because I was assigned to her while I was sitting in wiating room at airport, calling in to setup first lesson. So manager had no idea who I was or what I looked like. :)

Course, now, almost ten moonths in, how good we look on the floor has little to do with height or anything anymore, but the fact that we have worked out a good connection and know each other's dancing well. Or at least, she knows my dancing. I can't being to know all her dancing. :)

[samina]

In fact, if I dance with someone the "right" height for me, it feels all weird!

i can imagine! i know when i switch up to radically tall or switch down to near-my-height, everything feels strange...

[Sunshines Partner]

I feel truly blessed. Nine years ago next week (September 22nd,1998) I first stepped into the Fred Astaire Studio. I made connection with my first and only teacher since then (even though I have taken many exchange lessons with many others).

Sunshine has been the perfect teacher, partner and friend to me. We have been together through thousands of lessons and more Competitions and entries that I could possibility remember.

So remember, Take your time and find that perfect teacher. For me it was easy, I found her the first day I came into the studio.

And by the way, it was nice to find out (once I was around for a while) that she was one of the best teachers and dancers in FA.

[SlowDancer]

i can imagine! i know when i switch up to radically tall or switch down to near-my-height, everything feels strange...

This is one reason I am so glad I decided to dance with my CW pro but also keep dancing with my shorter ballroom pro...after years of dancing with my wonderful short pro, I was actually having trouble adjusting to dancing with leaders who were taller, i.e., more "height appropriate." Now I'm totally comfortable with both ends of the spectrum, which can only improve my dancing.

I want to make it clear that I don't feel the height/body-type issue is all-important in pro-am, but I felt I had to bring it up as the subject of the thread is finding the "perfect" pro-am pro.

[samina]

I want to make it clear that I don't feel the height/body-type issue is all-important in pro-am, but I felt I had to bring it up as the subject of the thread is finding the "perfect" pro-am pro.

my pro's height is a good match for me, but we have different body types -- he's more narrow than i am. but when we're dancing, he just feels huge to me... strong and powerful.

[fascination]

yea, I dunno that this question should even be phrased this way, aside from the potential to set up a "my dilemma is worse that yours" dynamic (never fun for the moderating staff), BUT ANYHOW, I think the issues involved with deciding with whom one will and won't be in a relationship, ANY relationship, with are so vast and personal that it is almost impossible to share the essentials though admittedly there are some... but we are all going to order our prioirities vastly differently depending upon numerous intangibles

[etp777]

I certainly wasn't trying to cause any problems, just spark some conversation. Didnd't expect this much response so quickly though. :)

Finding it very interesting to get other people's views on this. Actually brought it up just because of worries that my pro won't be teaching anymore when I get back from this job (assumign it even happens), and also just curiosity and itnerest in dancing with an am partner, so while I had my opinion on the process of finding each (as I phrased in first message), wanted opinions of others. While reading these responses, starting to change my original opinion, in some respects anyway. Interesting, interesting. Thanks everyone. :)

[fascination]

didn't mean to imply that you were etp....just referrng to past instances...and then adding my assessment that the quest for a good fit is hard or easy regardless and that I rather doubt that one is harder than another and that i think it is so situation specific as to be difficult to nail down

[fascination]

please don't let me discourage your questions or your starting new threads in any way...and beyond that my view carries no special weight...hug

[etp777]

Thanks. :) And didn't take it that way at all, no worries. I've got a big mouth, i'll continue to post/talk until i get banned. ;)

[fascination]

you have to work really really hard to get banned around here...

[samina]

no etp, your mouth isn't nearly as big as a very few who walk the razor's edge here... LOL

[etp777]

haha, I'll take those responses as a good thing. I think. ;)

As friend said when i first brought up something I had learned on this site, i'm just a big dance nerd. I'll leran about dance any way I can, and this site is great for that. If your'e willing to leran, and if you're someone who can learn through this medium.

But back on topic. partner/teacher searches! :)

[samina]

But back on topic. partner/teacher searches! :)

i think it's like a romantic partner search... be clear on what you want, trust something approximating that will come your way, put yourself out there, trust serendipity, and make intelligent decisions along the way.

there are just too many factors & nuances involved -- somehow, the force of destiny, law of attraction, whatever you wanna call it, helps people find each other for win-win exchanges, whether for short-term or long-term.

"when the student is ready, the teacher appears" is an infallible rule, in my book...

[etp777]

I suspect this is also something that matters more the longer you've been dancing, at least to some point. I know as I continue to advance, I'm getting a more and more accurate view of what I need in a teacher, and in a partner (or both, in my case). Getting better idea of how I learn dance best, which is definitely different than any other learning I do, and how I interact with others on dance floor, etc. Both of these are helped by the variety, both dancing with as many people as I can, and taking lessons, groups, coachings, whatever, from as many people as I can. Certain teachers or coaches I may have a great class with once in a while, but overall, kinda blah (and then use the classes to dance with more partners). Same thing with certain follows, I may have one amazing dance, great connection, etc, and then next time it's jsut sort of ok, we're dancing.

And as most of us admit here, esp. in coachings, sometimes a coaching is great just because it is special. Some big name comes in, and they're not the same people you take lessons form every day, but instead someone who you watch compete at big venues, and want to emulate, and that can make it a great coaching, but would probably pale pretty quickly if repeated. Course, doesn't hurt if the coach in question is also attractive and has a great accent. ;) Guess there starting to get into fact that a good coach can be yet another set of criteria in what you're looking for, different than teacher or partner. That one we've discussed elsewhere.

[samina]

Course, doesn't hurt if the coach in question is also attractive and has a great accent. ;)

goes without saying LOL

[fascination]

love it when alian doucet says rrrrrrrrotate

[etp777]

I was thinking of Nadia Goulina telling me to move hips more on cuban motion. Then hands on hips to help demonstrate it. Don't know that that was best lesson in amount I learned, but it's sure stuck in my head better than any other single lesson. :D

[croaker]

i think it's like a romantic partner search... be clear on what you want, trust something approximating that will come your way, put yourself out there, trust serendipity, and make intelligent decisions along the way.

there are just too many factors & nuances involved -- somehow, the force of destiny, law of attraction, whatever you wanna call it, helps people find each other for win-win exchanges, whether for short-term or long-term.

"when the student is ready, the teacher appears" is an infallible rule, in my book...
Works just like magic! And then you pay him:snake:
Sorry but comparing romantic encounters with something where you have to write a check for it was just too funny :p

[samina]

love it when alian doucet says rrrrrrrrotate

i love how the advice continues to ring in my head with the same accent that produced it... my head is filled with lilting italian & slovak pronunciation. lol

[rjcbear]

I was thinking of Nadia Goulina telling me to move hips more on cuban motion. Then hands on hips to help demonstrate it. Don't know that that was best lesson in amount I learned, but it's sure stuck in my head better than any other single lesson. :D

<=== very, very Jealous "etp" ... Is it time to move back home?

[samina]

Works just like magic! And then you pay him:snake:
Sorry but comparing romantic encounters with something where you have to write a check for it was just too funny :p

you missed the point, croaker...

[croaker]

you missed the point, croaker...
No no, I got it...Two people brought together by destiny, electric touch, perfect harmony, bodies moving in sync...

[samina]

not necessarily... there's way more to it than that. you're thinking romance.

i can think of so many elements that enter into any excellent student-teacher connection, as far as what creates a good chemistry & mutual fit. on top of those elements, there's also the physical aspect. and the emotional. there's having a shared sense of values & aesthetics, working styles, communication styles, purpose and direction and energy level and schedule and sense of humour. that's just a short list.

i think the same process works for finding any sort of teacher, or the purveyor of any sort of service... any sort of partner really.

the money is just to account for the exchange that occurs. but it doesn't negate the complex human interaction that can occur.

[samina]

and you need someone who is compassionate toward your particular psychological tendencies or idiosyncrasies... requires more than chance to find that. lol

[etp777]

I prefer to call my skewed psychological tendencies and annoying habits "quirks". :)

[Cal]

Sister thinks I'm crazy because I said I'd try all the local teachers if my pro quits while I'm out of country. I think her opinion was that my methods were overboard. She pointed out in past that I had choice o f any FA studio in the the area, I think her complaint was my plan to do two lessons with every pro in area to find best match for me. :)


I'm a veteran of searching for new pros. I think that it's a good idea to take some try-out lessons with a pro before you start to think of a long-term lesson arrangement, particularly if you have competition goals. But, even having done a lot of preliminary background homework on a pro, I've needed usually 10-12 hours of lessons with a pro before I've been able to figure out if it's going to work or not. There's a LOT to figure out when you start working with someone new - in addition to all the things that have been mentioned already, you've got to figure out "which part of the elephant" each of you is familiar with; is the pro a "foot" person or a "frame" person; is the pro more about shape and fluidity or more about power; are they perfectionists or are they happy with just "good enough", etc, etc - and, at least for me, it takes a lot longer than 2 hours to figure that out and whether it's going to work for me.

Heck, when I started lessons with one of my current pros, at the end of our first 2 hours we were, um. . . . expressing our EXTREME frustrations with each other. I thought it would NEVER work long-term. But I wasn't going to make a full judgment and quit with him after only 2 hours. After about a dozen lessons, the variables started fitting together and lessons work just fine now.

So, if you're going to do some try-outs with pro teachers, give yourself lots breathing room.

[fascination]

Heck, when I started lessons with one of my current pros, at the end of our first 2 hours we were, um. . . . expressing our EXTREME frustrations with each other. I thought it would NEVER work long-term.lol, I fail to see the problem;)

[fascination]

I prefer to call my skewed psychological tendencies and annoying habits "quirks". :)perhaps someday I will grow in wisdom, but I find the quirks to be part of the challenge and the journey:rolleyes:

[Cal]

Hmm - remember, my pro has a pro partner: I got double-teamed!

[fascination]

that would be a problem

[samina]

Hmm - remember, my pro has a pro partner: I got double-teamed!

you mean, you get feedback also from his partner?

[Cal]

you mean, you get feedback also from his partner?

Yes - they are VERY generous about that if she has some available time during our lesson. She'll point out what she thinks is working/not working, and will give feedback to both of us (sometimes it isn't ALWAYS just me that needs to work on something). And he'll do the same for her when she's working with her students and he's got some free time.

[samina]

yes, mine occasionally do that... i love it, although i know not everyone does.

[Laura]

i love how the advice continues to ring in my head with the same accent that produced it.
Mine too...I remember things with Irina Suvarov's beautiful part-British/part-Russian/part-California accent.

[Laura]

you mean, you get feedback also from his partner?
My current teacher's ex-partner used to come watch us compete in our Pro/Am events, and she'd give me feedback. She was very supportive that way, not all the teachers who I've danced with had partners who were at all interested. Not that I expect anything, mind you, I'm just saying that this particular partner was really kind and supportive that way.

From time to time I take lessons from my various teachers' partners. I find it very helpful to get their perspective on what I'm supposed to be doing and how I'm supposed to be doing it.

[etp777]

I'ms ure that's a ton of help. Wishing now Pro had a partner currently so I could work with them. :)

[fascination]

contemplating a partner search for pro...lol

[etp777]

hahaha. I've actually given it some thought and planning myself fasc, but never came up with any good options for her. Which might be good, as not sure how she'd respond to me doing so. :)

Know she has former partner she used to compete with when she did bachata/cumbia competitions, and know she's looking for someone now in ballroom, not sure what allt hat looking has entailed though.

[fascination]

oh lordie....I would never acutally try to be part of that search...am sure he'd wring my neck

[etp777]

:D Yeah, think this is one of situations where no matter how good your intentions are, you're just bringing trouble on yourself. And I should know better after just writing all these posts in this thread about how hard it is to find right person to dance with, and how personal a match is. :)

But I've never been one who paid much attention to my own advice.

[rjcbear]

Etp,

Just make sure you bring some of that good turkey jerky and give to her before you introduce her new dance partner... you selected for her :) :twisted:

[etp777]

haha, pro doesn't eat meat (not vegetarian, just generally doesn't like taste), or rarely, so i don't think she'd go for it. :)

[rjcbear]

haha, pro doesn't eat meat (not vegetarian, just generally doesn't like taste), or rarely, so i don't think she'd go for it. :)

Just trying to help a fellow dancer here you know.

[etp777]

I'd rather not share, even if I think she is best pro around for me. :D it's my turkey jerky!

[rjcbear]

In the famous words of "Elmer Fudd" a great American

Let'a be vewy, vewy, quite and not tell any one about your turkey jerky

[samina]

lol...

[meow]

Perhaps pro/am partnerships will put up with more 'quirks' as they make lots of money out of their students.
Am/am's don't make money from each other so I think they have to be more conscious of how they behave toward their partner.
And in am/am competition dancers, height etc., plays an important role in choosing a partner. So I'm thinking that it is harder to find an am partner than a pro partner.

[samina]

So I'm thinking that it is harder to find an am partner than a pro partner.

hands-down, no doubt. pros after all provide a service for pay... ams give their time & energy for free and the exchange they receive is entirely personal.

[meow]

Well, I guess that means that we don't agree with the original statement. Sorry, ETP. But I think finding an am partner much harder than a pro.:peace:

[reb]

Well, I guess that means that we don't agree with the original statement. Sorry, ETP. But I think finding an am partner much harder than a pro.:peace:
I agree.

etp - I think a difference in perspective is . . .

Bronze/Silver/Gold students at chain schools encounter a 'relative' abundance of amateurs who would love to be amateur partners - its afterwards which is the issue and I believe the source of some of the comments from the advanced Amateurs posting here about why finding Amateur partners is often difficult.

Finding fellow Syllabus / Novice Amateur dancers within a dance community is 'relatively' easy.
Finding Pre-Champ and Champ Amateur dancers is 'relatively' difficult.

[etp777]

Ah, but I didn't say finding a pro/am partner was hard. I said finding the RIGHT one was hard. :)

And to give in to correctiono some have given, which is true, is that numbers wise, right am partner might be harder. My statement was that looking for one person who can match both your learning style, and your connection on the floor, was harder to find than someone who just fit you in one way or another.

Seems from some though that I underestimated the learning you do with an am partner.

Suspect final analysis will be one of those thigns where I might have been right in theory, but that doesn't match the real world. Funny how often that happens. :)

[etp777]

Reb, I need to go to schools y'all go to. :) I'm having trouble finding someone who will compete with me ini our local chain schools, least in my age bracket. Though may be age issue, not the studios themselves. Or combination of the two rather, as looking for post collegiate age, but no real local collegiate pool, hence, second keeps me from finding first.

[wooh]

In theory, you would be right, *IF* YOU were the perfect partner. But I'm betting there's got to be something about you that isn't perfect. Which means that it's going to be easier for you to get a partner that thinks YOU are a good enough match as long as you pay her to dance with you. Remember, in pro/am, it sort of is all about what YOU want, because the other person mostly just wants to get paid. In am/am, you have to be what the other person wants too.:)

ETA: This is greatly simplifying my opinion, I realize that most pros want a little bit of dedication and respect to go along with the paycheck, and other sundry things. But I know my paycheck allows me to handle and deal with things that I won't handle outside of the workplace.
And let's not even get into how much easier it tends to be for men to find an am partner, and how etp is also coming from a male perspective.

[meow]

I said finding the RIGHT one was hard. :)

My statement was that looking for one person who can match both your learning style, and your connection on the floor, was harder to find than someone who just fit you in one way or another.

Seems from some though that I underestimated the learning you do with an am partner.


Finding the RIGHT partner is hard for BOTH pro and am. But finding a partner is more difficult in am as there is far more to consider. They certainly don't just 'fit you in one way or another'. :rolleyes:
The learning done in am/am, I suspect is far more intense than pro/am due to the aspirations of the couple. The only 'pay day' is winning and improving, not money.:)

[meow]

:DAlso, am/am learning styles need to be or become similiar for the partnership to work AND to have coaches they are both happy with. They need to build a solid connection to the floor and themselves. So, I think it is harder to find the RIGHT am partner than it is to find a pro partner.:D

[etp777]

Hrmmm, I had some brilliant insight on this, then made mistake of going to sleep and now I can't remember. :)

So let's keep thread going. Learning a LOT here. Hopefully some others are too, even if it's jsut reconsidering how learning and dancing styles affect partnership you already have, and helps you think of things to improve that. :)

[kayak]

I don't follow why you wouldn't hang out with anyone from your studio? That seems very limiting if you already hang out with other dancers and dance instructors.

[etp777]

I hang out with students from my studio, just not teachers. Chain schools here (FA and AM both) dislike students and teachers spending time together outside of studio, for various reasons (won't go into that, as we've had other threads on it).

Reason I actually started lessons at this studio is because I didn't hang out with any of teachers at this FA, jsut at all the other ones in region.

[kayak]

So if I was a guy dancing in a big city downtown studio, I would very seriously look at finding a amateur dance partner. Every big city has way more women than men. Why pay a pro to dance with you when there are probably a ton of pretty ladies that would kill for a partner?

Finding the perfect partner is simple. She is the one that thinks you are a great dancer ;)

[meow]

So if I was a guy dancing in a big city downtown studio, I would very seriously look at finding a amateur dance partner. Every big city has way more women than men. Why pay a pro to dance with you when there are probably a ton of pretty ladies that would kill for a partner?

Finding the perfect partner is simple. She is the one that thinks you are a great dancer ;)

There is more to being a dance partner than being pretty and I hope you are just being flippant :lol: with the rest.

[kayak]

If pretty was the critical criteria, my partner would drop me like a rock :D

I was just suggesting the search for the perfect partner not be too focused on pro-am when the right lady might be another student?

[etp777]

That's good, because if looks were the only criteria, I'd be stuck with partners I have to pay for the rest of my life. ;)

But I agree, I certainly don't limit myself to pro/am, just haven't found a good student to partner with yet. Have had various students that Iv'e been a good match with on floor, but none who are interested in competing way I am. Will just keep looking.

[rjcbear]

That's good, because if looks were the only criteria, I'd be stuck with partners I have to pay for the rest of my life. ;)

But I agree, I certainly don't limit myself to pro/am, just haven't found a good student to partner with yet. Have had various students that Iv'e been a good match with on floor, but none who are interested in competing way I am. Will just keep looking.

Etp,

I think you hit the nail on the head. a lot of lady amateur dancers just like to be social dancers and they are terrify just to think to compete and that is where is hard to find a lady partner.

I guess I one of those lucky fellow that my bride is so competitive that we can actually compete am/am.

[etp777]

Esp at my age, as a lot of those who are interested in competing, are interested enough that they just want to dance in general, so end up being teachers at the local studios. That way they get paid to practice, and can compete.

[rjcbear]

Esp at my age, as a lot of those who are interested in competing, are interested enough that they just want to dance in general, so end up being teachers at the local studios. That way they get paid to practice, and can compete.

IHO i think if a lady does a showcase and they love it the natural progression will be competition. That is how my bride and I started competing. You might want to suggest a lady if they like to do a showcase first.

[meow]

Do you have internet 'partner search' sites locally or something similiar? Am's looking for ams?

[samina]

IHO i think if a lady does a showcase and they love it the natural progression will be competition. That is how my bride and I started competing. You might want to suggest a lady if they like to do a showcase first.

that's how it was for me, RJC. brand-new, doing american social dancing, did a showcase right away for kicks & knew straightaway i wanted to compete... :)

[cornutt]

Just to complicate the topic a bit further: I know of a few ams who dance pro/am, but their pro partner is not their instructor. Discuss.

[etp777]

Just from my minimal knowledge cornutt, and completely guessing, I'd say these people are more advanced dancers than me, and also probably not at a chain school. Not that I might not do same eventually, just guessing. :)

Part of the guess is because if my pro does stop teaching, or teaches somewhere outside of chain, have contemplated dancing with her but going to another pro for lessons, as there's a pro here who does international that I think I could learn a lot from.

[rjcbear]

that's how it was for me, RJC. brand-new, doing american social dancing, did a showcase right away for kicks & knew straightaway i wanted to compete... :)

Samina, I think a lot of the problems with ladies not to want to complete is the nerves and just the unknown. I hear this from social dancers "there will be people look at me" Yes they will but also there is people looking at you while you dancing in the weekly social dance.

Yes show case is the keep.

[samina]

personally, i find the competition less nerve-wracking then the showcase. well, this last this showcase, anyway, as compared with my first three comps. i'm just an anonymous bronze dancer at the comps. at the showcase... much more visible, and many more critical eyes watching, seems to me.

still... i enjoyed both. :)

[rjcbear]

Just to complicate the topic a bit further: I know of a few ams who dance pro/am, but their pro partner is not their instructor. Discuss.

Cornutt;

In my eyes there is nothing better than that you will benefit as an amateur from both pros. There are a lot of circumstances where one of the pros can not compete with the student that is teaching due to legal matters from place of employment or some other reason. So what is a student that like to compete in pro/am to do?

I know that because I done it. and as you will know and you were part of the comp where i danced with a different pro.

[rjcbear]

personally, i find the competition less nerve-wracking then the showcase. well, this last this showcase, anyway, as compared with my first three comps. i'm just an anonymous bronze dancer at the comps. at the showcase... much more visible, and many more critical eyes watching, seems to me.

still... i enjoyed both. :)

I wish it was that easy to explain to some of the good social dancers that is less nerve-wracking. I guess until they try one of the other they will not know the difference at all.

Well you have an advantage about been anonymous since you do not have that number that is pin in the back of me for 3 days an to top it all of is "RED" too. :rolleyes:

BTW, I love to do showcases and competitions I think is the adrenalin rush that comes with both activities that I am addicted to.

[cornutt]

Well you have an advantage about been anonymous since you do not have that number that is pin in the back of me for 3 days an to top it all of is "RED" too. :rolleyes:


Yeah, I have this reoccurring nightmare that someday I'm going to go to a comp, and when I go to pick up mine, instead of a number, it's going to say "KICK ME". :-?

[rjcbear]

Yeah, I have this reoccurring nightmare that someday I'm going to go to a comp, and when I go to pick up mine, instead of a number, it's going to say "KICK ME". :-?

Cornutt, Thank you for the great idea. I must talk to Studio's owner and see if we can arrange this request of yours... :rocker:

[meow]

personally, i find the competition less nerve-wracking then the showcase. well, this last this showcase, anyway, as compared with my first three comps. i'm just an anonymous bronze dancer at the comps. at the showcase... much more visible, and many more critical eyes watching, seems to me.

still... i enjoyed both. :)

When doing a showcase, is that at your studio or for a corporate/business function as the entertainment? If its the latter, then non-dancers will think you are great, no matter what your level. And it is a great confidence booster to be the only couple on the floor.;)

[elisedance]

I've just read the entire thread (pats on own back) before posting and I think there are couple of things to add to this discussion. My own background is that I started learning seriously about 6 years ago with a darling pro who was about 5 inches shorter than me. I also started to look for an Am partner - searching on-line and locally without success. After 4 years I switched to pro C, a bit taller than me who was actively competing - and the the match worked wonders. We worked our way up competing in syllabus to schollarship. My own opinion is that finding pros is not hard - they actually drop out of the woodwork and I tried out with two others before settling on C. Finding a pro/am coach is easy. Finding a pro/am competition partner is not. This is an extraordinary arrangement. As discussed, one party is paying everything which can not help but affect the relationship and yet if you are going to compete seriously you have to deal with the dancing as a partnership - and that means an honest and open discussion, even if one member of the partnership is also the coach and will always be a far better dancer. The financial reality has to be put in its own box that is opened and closed as needed while the couple work on dancing. [By the way, I think this is something that people who do not have pro/am dancing fail to understand - the money is important for all sorts of aspects but with the right pro its simply what makes dancing togehter possible - much as having a car might be for an AM/AM dancer.]

Finally, after 6 years I have also found an AM partner that is as serious - maybe even more so - as I am. Hard? DARN RIGHT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. Whats missing in the discussion above is that both Pro/am and Am partners depend in the first place on simple local availabilty. Here there are actually several good pros but Ams, in particular ones over 6 ft are virtually non-existant. Add to that compatibility in goals and style - and liking each other sufficiently that you can be together for hours as necessary (quite an important aspect if you want to attend social dances) - and the odds get vanishingly small.

So in my opinion finding either a pro/am or an AM competition partner is hard and which is harder depends on who you are, what you want to achieve and on many factors out of anyone's control.

[fascination]

an excellent post EE...I couldn't agree more

[elisedance]

an excellent post EE...I couldn't agree more

:)

[meow]

I can really only comment on finding Am partners as you all know, we don;t have pro/am. But, from what I have read, I agree that finding a pro would be easier.:)
At one time my DS (dear son) was partnered with a girl who lived 3+ hours from here - she actually lived in a country town so had always had to travel to the city which was 2 hours away. From there, she had to travel to this studio - another hour - and this was done 4 days a week for 2 years. There were no top coaches in her town so we couldn't compromise and share the travel. It only worked because she had been doing this with every partner she had ever had.
After this partnership split, DS was without a partner for roughly 8 months. There were plenty of girls but he was extremely picky - this sounds really bad, I know, because being a male he could afford to be etc.,:neutral: - but at his level, even the coaches were very picky when advising him. There were even a couple of girls who flew in from another state and were prepared to move here if they partnered up. But, as he said, he wanted to try to find 'get the right one' and if it wasn't right in the tryout it would be unfair to start something (and have them move across the country) if he didn't feel it had a future.
I guess my point is that even top dancers can find it hard to get a partnership that they think is going to be viable.

[etp777]

Yeah, finding a pro is as easy as slapping the cash on front desk at studio of your choice. :)

Finding the right pro can be harder. But elisedance described it way better than I can. :)

[wooh]

Yeah, finding a pro is as easy as slapping the cash on front desk at studio of your choice. :)

Finding the right pro can be harder. But elisedance described it way better than I can. :)

But when you find the right pro, they're not going to be as picky about YOU being the right am. (After all, most have quite a few.) Where when you're searching for the right am partner, YOU have to be the right am partner for them.

[etp777]

True true. But I'm picky enough to make up for both. ;)

But yeah, you are very riht. Have been proswho choose not to work with a particular student, but that's more about creepy studentswho probably shouldnt' be in studio at all, rather than a mismatch like two am partners. So the fit still has to match both ways, but pro is less likely to say something, and more likely to work through it. hrmmmm

I think real key to this is I should quit worrying about finding a new pro until I see if I really have to, which is more than a year away. But Certainly seems to have brought up some good conversation.

[etp777]

Turns out I don't have to worry about this anyway. If pro isn't teaching when I get back, the thinking has already been done for me. Manager from sister's and parent's studio has decided that in that case I'll start taking lessons at her studio, and even picked the two pros for me (we work with two pros, or a teacher and a buddy teacher, or whatever you want to call it). Ironically, two pros she picked are two pros who teach guy who beat me for 11 out of 12 heats in my last, and only, comp. So I know they can teach and dance. :)

[dancingirldancing]

Well, I have men not wanting to do try out with me after just speaking on the phone becase I am a littler short.

These same men now after I found a partner and watched me dance actually ask me to do try out with them if I change my mind about my current partner.

Suffice to say I wont give them time of the day.

I did have to train very very hard be very very good FIRST before I even found my first am partner.

I also have to be flexible enough to accomodate a partner who is less skilled than me.

But my current partner is very hard working and I am willing to overlook the skill factor because of this.

I did take look into account even though CP is no Brad Pitt but he is fit and well groomed.

So my suggestion is everytime you walk into your studio please be well groomed, dont stink, dont wear jeans, dont come in with messy hair.

Reasonably fit physique is also a bonus point please dont crouch, dont drag your feet, keep a good posture and reasonably healthy weight range.

Dancing IS about looking good anyway so an am partner is more likely to pick you if you are easy on the eyes.

Men can get away with a lot more just because there are so few of them.

Then they get super picky with girls which icks me but well it is reality of life.