male student with male teacher

[swilliams]

Hi all,
I was wondering if there were any male students out there who do privates with male teachers? What do you work on? I currently just separated from my partner but I would like to continue dancing. So I'm just seeking advice from those who have followed this path.
Thanks!

[samina]

absolutely. am not male but this is common. go for it... with the right instructor, it'll certainly jack up your technique! :)

[dandy]

I would also advise taking lessons with a female coach, as she is in a better position to correct your position and enhance your skills as a leader.

[etp777]

I have never purposely taken private from a male teacher, but more than once, showed up for a "group" lesson with male teacher where I was only one there. Learned new steps, worked on technique, got some good advice from leads point of view. All the teachers at our studio know man and woman's parts for all the stpes, but certain teachers know certain thigns better. Plus even if my pro knows everything (which I think she does at times ;) ), occasionally a concept can be easier to learn from someone else. Just a matter of different learning styles, different tips, ways of teaching, etc.

[dandy]

depends what level I guess, group lessons are ok for learning steps and routines, and yes male and female coaches know both sets of steps. But as you advance and need to know more technical stuff its invaluable to know how it 'feels' to do it the right way.

When I dance with our male coach he lets me know how I should feel and respond from a man's point of view. When my partner dances with our female coach she does the same but from the woman's point of view. We then use that extra information to be better leader/follower.

Thats why having a male AND a female coach is good because each brings a different approach to the physical part. And thats why, if you are male, learning with a female coach gives you a different perspective/feeling/benefit that you wouldnt have with a male. And vice versa.

[saludas]

Male teacher and male student is an awesome way to learn how to do the male part! The insight provided by the person who dances the same part as you cannot be underestimated. Learning leading skills, etc are not always easy with a femme teacher (since they have devoted such a small percentage of their dancing time to actually performing the leader's part). Also, you have the advantage of seeing the male part in action, rather than a simulation from a femme.

[danceronice]

My friend Mike was just telling me how helpful it was to have a lesson with a male pro, because now he got to feel what it's like when the lead is correct.

[latingal]

Have to add my endorsement to having instructors of both genders....I too think it's important to get perspective from somebody who dances the "same side" regularly.

[etp777]

So I think we all agree that it's good. But I also think any guys here will agree that it's not quite the same dancing with a male instructor as female. :)

[fenixx]

Dancing with an instructor is different than getting advice from an instructor. I don't really concern myself with the gender of the instructor, though; I worry more about the quality of the instructor. If you have a high level instructor, either male or female, the amount of information and the ability to partner are excellent.

[rjcbear]

I have a male instructor my bride and I have been taking lesson from him about 5 years now but we have been taking lessons from him 3 times a week for the last 3 years now.

Yes, the Bride is there but male teacher and I are constantly dancing and he show me the male part and we will switch roles one time I will dance the male part and the other time I will dance the ladies parts that way I get some great tips from him.

This kind of arrangement has help my dancing so much and I will recommend to any male dancer to take lesson with a male teacher any time.

The best decision I made.

[etp777]

dancing the woman's part is definitely helpful, at least for me, to really know what I"m leading.

[rjcbear]

dancing the woman's part is definitely helpful, at least for me, to really know what I"m leading.

Etp,

It was hard at first to change everything to the revers of what I was use to doing but it has help me with leads, posture and timing issues I had.

[samina]

i love watching my pro and his coach dance the lady's part. if only i looked so pretty when i dance... lol.

[etp777]

On the other hand, I'm mean, I tend to pick on the guy pros a bit when they're workign together and one is doing the woman's part. :)

[samina]

homophobe :cool:

[etp777]

lol, nah, I pick on the women pros when they're doing guys part too. I just enjoy giving the pros a hard time. t hey're family. :)

[samina]

yah, i get that... all in jest & good fun. :)

[etp777]

Figured, just didn't want anyone who hasn't alked ot me to assume you meant that (or that I did :) ).

[samina]

when luca baricchi was in town a few months ago, he & giampiero giannico apparently danced extensively together at an evening lecture, with GG doing the lady's part. report from pro is that it was hysterically funny... not to mention gorgeous dancing. the reported back-and-forth commentary between the two of them would have to be censored if i shared it here... heh

i have few regrets in life, but having missed that evening is one of them! dang...

[etp777]

Man, that'd be a sight to see.

I know my mom is still kciking herself about not paying attention at our july nationals. Two main guy pros in our region (for FA that is, not top national pros), were bored, or drunk from fatigue (not surprising with hours on end of entries that day) or something, but went out and frighteningly, did one of sexier rumbas I've seen. :) Got #1 and #2 teachcer if memory serves for that comp, and at the dinner that night, did a great rumba. It was a good comp all around. :)

[fascination]

when luca baricchi was in town a few months ago, he & giampiero giannico apparently danced extensively together at an evening lecture, with GG doing the lady's part. report from pro is that it was hysterically funny... not to mention gorgeous dancing. the reported back-and-forth commentary between the two of them would have to be censored if i shared it here... heh

i have few regrets in life, but having missed that evening is one of them! dang...
perspiring heavily at the thought of this:cool:

[meow]

For a man who is without a current partner, I think it is important to have the majority of lessons with another male. That way you improve you technique etc., for your role in a prospective partnership. I think it is good to supplement this with coaching from a female to give allround coaching. But, I would make sure that they were quality coaches. At a high level steps are not being learned when partnerless, only technique.

[White Chacha]

(aside) Wow, Luca was in the US? That must have been an awesome evening!

I am male leader and take primarily from a male coach, occasionally from a female coach. The approaches are very different but compementary.

I have a friend who things it very odd that I take lessons from a male coach. I think it odd that he generally does not ;-)

[SonInDance]

We had added lessons with a male coach about 8 months ago and my son's dancing has improved significantly. The dance partnership has done better as well because my son dances better. I think with my son, he is a visual person so explaining how things should look or work doesn't cut it (or maybe he is less focused in his lessons due to his age and maturity). With a male coach, he is able to imitate the hard hip movements in the latin dances. His coach was wearing this big belt buckle and explaining about moving from the center/core, within two lessons, my son was able to imitate these movements as if he was feeling the buckle.

My son (new to standard) also was constantly dropping his frame and dancing almost tilted to the right. Only his male coach figured out that it was because his partner was leaning her hand (and body weight) on top of right shoulder so much that he kept letting his frame drop. The male coach said he had lots of partners who leaned on him heavily when he was dancing at a younger age.

Maybe better female instructors would have spotted these things, but we noticed our male coach was more of an inspiration for my son to enjoy dancing and try harder to learn dance moves.

[rjcbear]

I enjoy lessons with male pro because I get so much information and this little tips from his experience that makes the lessons so much fun.

[biggestbox]

I'm going to start some fireworks here and say that 90% of male teachers are just plain better than 90% of female ones. And before I get some angry responses listen to my reasoning:

Men are stronger and have very well developed muscles that can really exaggerate the movement showing you exactly which muscles are being used. This is exactly why males dancers can start later in life (and become pro level) because their muscles can develop so much faster and stronger than female dancers. Females dancers usually have to grow with their muscles. They usually dance when they are young and their bodies change to accommodate the dancing (that is why pro ballerinas are so young)

Often, this makes female dancers know the right motion not from analysis but from an intuitive muscle memory developed from years of dance.

This doesn't mean of course that women can't learn to teach really well. Nadia Eftedal and Shirley Ballas are two of the top coaches in the world (both women). Personally, from all the coaches I've had (twenty different ones probably), the best have all been men with the exception of Nadia (never taken from shirley)

[samina]

interesting theory... will be curious to hear responses

[madmaximus]

I'm going to start some fireworks here and say that 90% of male teachers are just plain better than 90% of female ones. And before I get some angry responses listen to my reasoning:

Men are stronger and have very well developed muscles that can really exaggerate the movement showing you exactly which muscles are being used. This is exactly why males dancers can start later in life (and become pro level) because their muscles can develop so much faster and stronger than female dancers. Females dancers usually have to grow with their muscles. They usually dance when they are young and their bodies change to accommodate the dancing (that is why pro ballerinas are so young)

Often, this makes female dancers know the right motion not from analysis but from an intuitive muscle memory developed from years of dance.

This doesn't mean of course that women can't learn to teach really well. Nadia Eftedal and Shirley Ballas are two of the top coaches in the world (both women). Personally, from all the coaches I've had (twenty different ones probably), the best have all been men with the exception of Nadia (never taken from shirley)


While I understand the hypothesis you're presenting, I think it is flawed.
Sure, one can gather knowledge from analysis.
But there are other avenues to gaining that knowledge in order to teach a student well.

And there's where I have difficulty connecting the relevance of muscular development (and the connection to analytic development) to teaching skill.

Furthermore, while I will grant that seeing a movement done properly by a teacher can help, is that really a true measure of teaching skill?
Isn't that simply skill in demonstrating something?

Isn't the "eye" or the ability of the teacher to recognize and correct one's movement (and make us SEE the correct movement) that matters?


Male or female, isn't effective communication the better hallmark of a good teacher?







m

[elisedance]

we have the luxury of both: a male coach grandfathered in from me and a female from MP. It has been such an eye opener - for both of us. Over all, I think MP has got more from my coach - he needed more dynamism and more instruction as to how to get the woman to follow. However, its a close call. I have learned so much about not only what is wanted from the woman but the little tricks that men just could not understand unless they were also expert followers.

Are men better coaches? From a woman's perspective maybe - at least up to a certain level, but, as mentioned above, once you get to the top surely its much more a question of how good a dancer and, more important, how good a teacher that particular coach is. I suspect the quality of teaching ability dominates so much in a great coach that male or female is just so much of a moot debate...

[White Chacha]

I know a male latin coach who hypothesizes that females learn dance more readily than males because the center of gravity of females is lower. This makes women more stable from the get go.

Don't know if I believe that but I'll throw it onto the fuel pile ;-)

[iLiketoLeadwhenIdance]

I originally noticed my partner (male) when he was working with my instructor (male), learning both lead and follow parts.

Several men, even those who are not interested in dancing as a follower have also worked with my male instructor, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they are (or are becoming) the best leaders in the studio. If you can focus on the dancing, and get past the gender thing, it works out great (that being said, I still remember that oogie feeling the first time I led a woman in tango.)

I have also been learning both parts, and I occasionally work with female instructors. I have found it most helpful to see how a woman dances the follower's role for nuances of movement, and to obtain some feedback on how my lead differs from "the other guys." I have found that the best leading instruction tends to come from male instructors; I can feel what it is that they are doing, and they can feel what is lacking or erroneous in my lead.

[waltzgirl]

I know a male latin coach who hypothesizes that females learn dance more readily than males because the center of gravity of females is lower. This makes women more stable from the get go.

Don't know if I believe that but I'll throw it onto the fuel pile ;-)

Maybe, but 3" heels more than offset any biological advantage in stability ;) !

[latingal]

Maybe, but 3" heels more than offset any biological advantage in stability ;) !

*groan*

So very true waltzgirl....

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I know a male latin coach who hypothesizes that females learn dance more readily than males because the center of gravity of females is lower. This makes women more stable from the get go.

Don't know if I believe that but I'll throw it onto the fuel pile ;-)
Hmmm...and all this time, I thought women were more...um...top-heavy.

[meow]

Are men better coaches? From a woman's perspective maybe - at least up to a certain level, but, as mentioned above, once you get to the top surely its much more a question of how good a dancer and, more important, how good a teacher that particular coach is. I suspect the quality of teaching ability dominates so much in a great coach that male or female is just so much of a moot debate...

I must agree with ED. It really is a moot point - male v female. It is the calibre of coaching that is important. In the top levels of dancing, most couples have more than one regular coach and it is usually from a male and female. But the dancers really don't care about the gender - it is the experience, coaching methods and prior results that coach has produced that matter.

[etp777]

Depends on the woman, TC. :)

[reb]

Referencing the OPs question . . .

Hi all,
I was wondering if there were any male students out there who do privates with male teachers? What do you work on? I currently just separated from my partner but I would like to continue dancing. So I'm just seeking advice from those who have followed this path.
Thanks!

Yes, for troubleshooting, feedback, and tricks-of-the-trade.

As a male amateur/student, taking a lesson/coaching from a high-level male provides an immediate comparison between me and lady and him and the lady, highlighting the differences and where I am weaker.

This often results in a comment like "here's what/how I do in this situation" which has more to do with the insight he has as the actual lead rather than how it felt to the lady teacher (the follower, whether with him or me) . . . more like a trick of the trade.

Example on a complex pivot combination given to us by a lady coach - the male teacher modified my footwork to help me work towards the ideal footwork (Blackpool quality male coach).

Male teacher and male student is an awesome way to learn how to do the male part! The insight provided by the person who dances the same part as you cannot be underestimated.

Agree. Call it . . . male augmentation!

[reb]

On the other hand, I'm mean, I tend to pick on the guy pros a bit when they're workign together and one is doing the woman's part. :)
when working on bolero with male pro while DW was traveling, we enjoyed the attention of getting ladies to stop what they were doing . . . ;)

[etp777]

Hrmm, maybe I should try that reb. I guess it would depend on which women are in the studio next time I end up in lesson with one of the male pros. :)

[newdancer113]

I know a male latin coach who hypothesizes that females learn dance more readily than males because the center of gravity of females is lower. This makes women more stable from the get go.

Don't know if I believe that but I'll throw it onto the fuel pile ;-)


Don't know if I agree with this...at 6' I'm taller than most guys and still find that in group classes I pick things up faster than most of the men. And I can flip things around in my head and lead (at least the basic social patterns) relatively easily too...though there are a number of women who don't try that.

[elisedance]

ND113: I don't see how that contradicts what WCC wrote. He said that women learn faster, you said you learn faster and (though this is not explicity clear) I assume you are a woman (very sorry if I got that wrong).

[White Chacha]

Don't know if I agree with this...at 6' I'm taller than most guys and still find that in group classes I pick things up faster than most of the men. And I can flip things around in my head and lead (at least the basic social patterns) relatively easily too...though there are a number of women who don't try that.

It's not the absolute CG he's talking about, but rather the CG relative to
one's own body. This factors out the person's height.

In any event, I'm not sure it's a good theory either but since dance
ultimately has to follow the laws of physics, it's interesting to think
about it in terms of the physical qualities of the bodies we try to move.