Why is ballroom so expensive?

[pygmalion]

This has come up in a couple other threads, so now I'm asking what you all think. Why is ballroom dance so expensive -- seemingly much more expensive than other forms of partner dancing? Look around at the costs of the costumes, the instruction, the shoes, the competitions, you name it. At least from this ballroomer's perspective, everything seems mighty pricey. And for other forms of partner dance, the prices seem to be a bit lower. Do you agree? Why or why not?

[jon]

This has come up in a couple other threads, so now I'm asking what you all think. Why is ballroom dance so expensive -- seemingly much more expensive than other forms of partner dancing?

For social dancing it's not out of line with swing venues. Maybe a little more expensive than country on average.

The commercial competition ballroom side appears, well, commercialized and optimized to extract money from people. Probably the demographics of the different scenes affect how much is charged, too.

[KevinL]

Why is ballroom dance so expensive -- seemingly much more expensive than other forms of partner dancing?

(cut and paste)

And for other forms of partner dance, the prices seem to be a bit lower.

What other kind of partner dancing is there?

Swing and salsa tend to take place in venues where the dancing isn't the source of income, so prices can be lower. Compare a club that does other things, like sell liquor, or food (and doesn't take care of the dance floor) to a dance studio, and you will see that the dance-sometimes clubs have several sources of income, while all the income to support the dance business comes from dance fees.

Line-of-dance ballroom dances take a lot of space, and density on the floor tends to be less, so overall cost per person is higher.

How many swing or salsa students take private lessons? That will certainly raise the relative "price" that people pay to dance.

How many inexperienced dancers start teaching thier friends/ others non-ballroom dances? You pay for experience, I think.

Look around at the costs of the costumes, the instruction, the shoes, the competitions, you name it. At least from this ballroomer's perspective, everything seems mighty pricey.

I'll agree with Jon that:

The commercial competition ballroom side appears, well, commercialized and optimized to extract money from people.

How expensive are other kinds of dance competitions?

Do you agree? Why or why not?

Ballroom is more expensive, in part because of the culture that supports it. Good or bad? It just is.

Kevin

[jon]

What other kind of partner dancing is there?

Swing, Salsa, Argentine Tango, Vintage, Waltz (http://fridaynightwaltz.com/), Round Dance, Country, Scandanavian, Polka, Blues...

Line-of-dance ballroom dances take a lot of space, and density on the floor tends to be less, so overall cost per person is higher.

The lowest-density ballroom dance venue around here is also the cheapest.

How expensive are other kinds of dance competitions?

For the typical WCS 3-day weekend event, registration is ~$100 for admission, all social dancing, and watching the comps. Competitors fees added to that are sometimes flat (at the US Open, the biggest WCS comp. event, I believe it's $75) and sometimes per-comp, usually $10-15 each. People doing pro-ams will of course pay more for their pro's time; I think WCS privates average a bit cheaper than ballroom, but not much.

[Porfirio Landeros]

I know we're starting by comparing ballroom to other partner dances, but the way I look at it, ballroom is cheaper than a lot of hobbies.

For one thing, my girlfriend and I both do it, so we're pooling our money for one hobby, rather than having separate ones. For example, if her hobby was tenis, and if mine were golf, there are a lot of expenses associated with each of those, if you want to take it to the highest level. You want the best equipment, coaching, and have to have memberships to access facilities.

So, I don't think ballroom is expensive. Yeah, there are cheaper dances and cheaper hobbies, but I think ballroom is worth it, and when I look back on a competitive career, I can say that my girl and I have something to show for it, even if that's only the fact that we can dance into our "later" days.

[pygmalion]

I agree with that, Porfirio, even though I've never had a significant other who loved dance as I do (yet.) It's certainly worth whatever the cost.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. Is it a matter of charging what the market will bear? Why do ballroom dance camps, for example, cost mulitiples of what swing or AT intensive weekends cost, when they're effectively the same thing? Is it because costs are really higher, or because the demographics of the respective student bodies make ballroom a more lucrative market? Hmm.

[ShyDancer]

What timing for this topic to pop up!!

I had never considered the cost of ballroom to be expensive, until yesterday.
My daughters ballet teacher and I were having a conversation and she said to me that she had always wanted to try ballroom dancing but thought it was too expensive. I was stunned for a second, especially considering my daughter classes cost more than mine!
I also only had to pay for shoes (which being a woman is not considered an "expense" :wink: ) whereas my daughter needs a uniform as well as shoes

Unless you are competeing I dont think its more expensive than any other activity. And even if you DO compete, any other activity you compete in costs extra too.

So nope, I dont think its more expensve than anything else.

[Porfirio Landeros]

... she said to me that she had always wanted to try ballroom dancing but thought it was too expensive.

I think part of this may come from the "package" programs that are commonly sold in the ballroom industry. Many ballrooms try to sell the newcomers these bulk programs, so there are some up front costs that can seem high, but when broken down by the amount of lessons, they turn out to be a deal.

You can always tell the teacher/manager that's trying to close the deal on you what your goals are, and if you're fine paying more per lesson w/o the long term commitment, let them know... otherwise, grab the deals if you know you're going to use them and you know the studio's refund policy, etc.

[Adwiz]

Having just spent roughly $2000 to attend a recent competition (and there were no competitor fees!), I was reminded just how expensive it can appear to be. However when you put it all in perspective I think it makes sense.

Compare DanceSport to other competitive activities like golfing or skiing, and it is actually cheaper. What makes it look expensive (since people assume all you need is a pair of shoes and a big flat space) is the optics between the anticipated cost and the real cost.

For social dancers, the cost is quite low. We know many couples who take Bronze lessons once or twice a week, have been doing so for years, and attend the free party after the lesson. Their cost per month is much lower than almost any other hobby-style activity I can think of, even less than going to dinner and a movie once a week.

For competitors, the situation is quite different, but when you compare our goals with those of competitors in other sports like figure skating, skiing or whatever, the costs are still lower than most that I can think of where similar competitive goals are involved. We have private lessons (in our case two to three per week), group lessons and parties (three to four per week), practice time, costumes, shoes replaced fairly often, videos, ISTD manuals, music, travel and competition fees and all the other stuff that would accompany any sport being taken seriously. Our family dance budget is about $1200 monthly (for three people), but that is less than some of my friends who are into stock car racing, figure skating, competitive golfing or skiing. I know competitive cyclists who spend nearly that every month on their sport. I think the issue is mostly perception, because you tend to think of just the shoes.

[pygmalion]

Interesting. I wonder whatthe perspective would have been on the relative expense if someone had said up front how much things cost. Hmm. Perhaps being hooked on the sport changes your perspective on the expense?

[ShyDancer]

Perhaps being hooked on the sport changes your perspective on the expense?


I think that might just be the case! I certainly would not be able to justify spending $60 and hour on a private golf lesson :lol: :lol: But this afternoon I will walk into the studio for my private and part very easily with that cash!

I think its easier to justify spending money on anything you love than on something you have little or no interest in at all.

[Neil]

I agree with Adwiz. Golf, sailing and sport fishing are pretty popular here. If you are a serious competitor in any of those, you're spending a lot of money. If you think DanceSport is expensive, take up show horses.

Some social dancers just take those group classes and pay the cover charge to dance all evening. That's like the guy who just has a cheap fishing pole and casts from the bridge.

I think that any sport that you really want to compete in, costs as much money as you have... and then some. ;)

[Adwiz]

I think that any sport that you really want to compete in, costs as much money as you have... and then some. ;)

Well said! :lol:

[DanceMentor]

Or take the case of a small dance studio that charges $65 per hour for private lessons. And let's say they pay there teachers $25 per hour, and let's say they teach 60 private hours per week. So that means they are making $40 per private lesson. So $40 times 60 = $2400 times 4 weeks = $9600.

Now for a space like this, surely they are paying around $4000 per month for the rent or mortgage and another $500 for utilities. And what about advertising? A yellow pages ad is at least $500 per month. And surely they are going to need to advertise in some other media sucha s a website or local paper. And let's not forget party supplies ($150), office supplies ($200), music ($75), training classes (for new instructors) ($200), and even the salary for a receptionist to answer the phone and book appointments ($1000). Also, do they have an outstanding loan on the dance floor? A decent floating floor is not cheap (at leat $10,000).

As you can see, that $65 per hour can be gone fast. And what about the salary for the owner? Not enough to live on in the above example, unless they are also a teacher.

[DanceMentor]

As far as the difference in pricing between ballroom and swing or salsa, here are a couple of reasons:
1. The average age is different
2. Naturally, ballroom involves more private lessons.

[pygmalion]

I was thinking about this while I should have been sleeping, :( and came up with a couple things.

One, ballroom, even as a social dance, is more expensive because, as DM says, private lessons are more or less required just to get to a decent level of dancing.

Two, if you go competitive, the prices go through the roof. Compared to other competitive sports, it may be inexpensive, but in the absolute sense, I think it's pretty pricey. There are people out there who make less money per year than I spend on ballroom in a year. Seriously.

* Three private lessons/week -- about $850/month or $10000/year
* Two pro am comps per year -- about $5000 a year
* Dance camps -- about $700 to $1000 each
* Comp costumes, shoes and practice clothes -- $2000 a year
* At least two pairs of practice shoes per year $300
* Videos, music, books and other training tools ???
* Sundry workshops and intensives ???

A grand total of $15000 to $18000 per year, even if I economize. :shock:

Um, guys, how is this not expensive? :wink: :D

Three, the strictly social dances, such as swing and salsa find it hard to pay the bills. There's an active thread right now where scorpionguy talks about social dance venues closing. There's just not enough money on it to keep venues open. Yes, dancers put out less cash, but the venues can't stay in business. Hmm. :?

[pygmalion]

Oh yeah, and I forgot going out ballroom social dancing once a week. Only $50 a month, but that adds up to $600/year. The price tag continues to add up. :? Hmm.

[pygmalion]

I left out two group classes per week. $75/month. $900/year.

[Adwiz]

Sure adds up when you look at it on an annual basis, doesn't it?

But what I love is that when you look at the overall cost and still decide it's worth every penny, you really start to enjoy it.

My view is that the best way to use discretionary cash (everything past tithing, cost of living, and savings) is to improve your life and those of people around you, and when something is this much fun it's a great investment, because it's an investment in the enjoyment of life. I feel the same is true for any sport that people commit to. The key is to commit to some activity you truly love. Gives you a wonderful sense of physical fulfillment.

DanceSport has been good for my marriage and my social life. My relationship with my daughters has improved (even though I only dance with one of them, we've all grown together through the process), and there has been a rich emotional bonding with my dance partner daughter that will stay with us the rest of our lives, long after she gets a partner her age to compete with. Like the MasterCard commercials say, that kind of thing is priceless.

[ShyDancer]

That does add up to quite a bit doesnt it?!

But it still wouldnt stop me Im afraid! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[pygmalion]

I know what you mean, ShyDancer. Even tallying things up doesn't discourage me. It just makes me work harder to think of ways to pay for everything.

btw, things are probably less expensive if you're an amateur competitor. That way, you don't have to pay for the pro's time while you compete.

Also, you can cut costs by sharing lesson time with a dance partner, at least part of the time.

But the costume costs I quoted are quite low -- counting on discount, consignment, rental or homemade (yes, I'm a seamstress! :D ) costumes.