consultant/coach/other?

[fascination]

so...I hope this doesn't open a can of worms...but I have question about something that I percieve to be a need of mine...recently it occurs to me that as much as I need a coach for coaching...I also need someone who understands the system and understands pro and I, and is willing to take the time to be frank with me about all three...can this be a possibility?...can I approach someone for that sort of service?....sometimes it feel like, as the am part of pro/am, that there is a secret handshake or an unspoken agreement that certan lines just don't get crossed...now don't get me wrong, I understand and appreciate the need and reasons for all of that ... in fact think that there is more candor btwn pro and I than most folks have, but I feel like I would benefit from someone who knows both of us and the system to occasionally give me some perspective and reality check...and I feel like this has to be someone who does see both of us often enough to have some perspective...do any of you have a coach who is willing to have that sort of conversation with you? I would be willing to pay for something like that...one hour, maybe over dinner, say once a quarter...just a bit of strategy and candor ...is that way off base?...

[etp777]

It may be considered out of line, by whatever custom is here in dance world, but it certainly sounds like something extremely valuable, and which I'd want in your position. Curious to see where this goes.

[GJB]

To me what you're asking for sounds like what a coach is for. Though, I guess some Pro Am teacher's might think that is their job. I think I would expect a Pro Am teacher to be strategising. Certainly seems like a fair thing to approach your teacher about.

[FatBaldGuy60]

It seems to me that you are looking for someone who can advise if you are proceeding in the direction you desire, and has enough objectivity oustide the patnership to be able to provide the [possibly] hard words needed.

I would think it would be quite helpful, but I can't also help but think it is a very large can of very wormy worms. Do you do this without pro's input, or even his knowledge of going "outside" for advice? If so, what if he finds out? Can you find someone who knows you both well enough to do that, and still be discreet?

I am sure you thought about all that. To be honest, I am so unknowledgeable about the dance scene, especially competition and pro-am, that my input is probably worthless. You talk about your coach; is that your pro? If not, that may be a valuable source of information. Otherwise, it depends on how urgent your desire is for that kind of advice, since it does look to leave you in the proverbial location between the rock and the hard place.

FBG

[etp777]

It seems generally that coaching in dance seems to be centered on technique.

What fasc is describing sounds to me a lot like pageant coach. Sister used to do this for one or two people who did pageant work.

But yeah, for comps for us, it seems strategy and everything tends to just be left to pro in pro/am couple, with maybe some input from managers or other more advanced pros in studio, but not really someone dedicated to this brought in from outside.

[GJB]

It seems generally that coaching in dance seems to be centered on technique.

Maybe for lower level Amateurs but I don't think this is the case for Pro's. I think their coaches advise them on strategy, grooming, costumes, etc. Though it may not happen as much here in the U.S. as it does oversees. At least that's what one Pro Blackpool finalist told me several years ago.

[etp777]

Oh yeah, definitely not speaking for pros. :) And while Jack (our main coach ) may give coaching like that before comps (will pay attention in two weeks when he's working with people competing in october), the one coaching I had riht before my comp, blackpool finalist, was just working technique. So was coaching with jack before that, but I wasn't getting ready for a comp then.

Actually, not really seen any coachings in preparation for comps, so I guess I'll take back my comment, not relaly sure what they do. :)

[GJB]

If it's a coach who has never seen you before or rarely sees you, I would think that they would focus on technique only.

As for what Fasc wants, I would think she would need someone who sees her compete at least occasionally. That might not leave too many options other than maybe a judge who is also a coach.

[etp777]

Oh, yeah, certainly agree with you in fasc's case. I was talking about coachings we generally see in studio. Very often outside coach, who's just in town fo ra couple days, so technique is only real option.

A great option for what you and fasc are describing in my case would be Jack. In our area, he's never judge (Actually, might have been for one of our closed comps in last 18 months), but otherwise helps just tallying, or making sure people stick to syllabus (can't remember name of that role), etc. Plus he's in all the local studios at least once a month for coachings. Somoene like that would be perfect fasc, if you can find them (harder with your lessons not being in studio, etc, I'd think). Hrmm, going to have to make sure I bring this up when I get back and start competing again.

[SDsalsaguy]

I think part of the distinction that needs to be made is between coaching and a coach. To my mind what fascination is describing/asking for is part of what a couple's coach does for them (be they am, pro-am, or pro)... BUT this is different from the "oh, so-and-so was in town and we took some coaching from them" version of going to a coach. There's obviously nothing wrong with getting that type of input, and in many cases it would be foolish not to do so, but if there isn't a coach (or a coordinated coaching team) that is directing, then a lot is being neglected in the preparation of a competitive dancer.

[etp777]

Yeah, wasn't exactly making that distinction. Can even be same person, in some cases. Have one person who does both for us (functions as coach, and was person who trained all pros in our studio, etc, but also does general technique coaching), but then also bring in outside coaches as you described.

edit: removed some comments that were going OT. Will start new thread on subject if I think it's worth time.

[fascination]

It seems to me that you are looking for someone who can advise if you are proceeding in the direction you desire, and has enough objectivity oustide the patnership to be able to provide the [possibly] hard words needed.

I would think it would be quite helpful, but I can't also help but think it is a very large can of very wormy worms. Do you do this without pro's input, or even his knowledge of going "outside" for advice? If so, what if he finds out? Can you find someone who knows you both well enough to do that, and still be discreet?

I am sure you thought about all that. To be honest, I am so unknowledgeable about the dance scene, especially competition and pro-am, that my input is probably worthless. You talk about your coach; is that your pro? If not, that may be a valuable source of information. Otherwise, it depends on how urgent your desire is for that kind of advice, since it does look to leave you in the proverbial location between the rock and the hard place.

FBG
I am not talking here about doing anything outside of my pros knowlege...he is my pro, and he is not the issue...but I would like a third party advice beyond my dancing on a variety of issues and am simply wondering if it is appropriate to approach someone whom I think would be fitting, someone with whom I have had coaching, and ask for it

[SDsalsaguy]

...I would like a third party advice beyond my dancing on a variety of issues and am simply wondering if it is appropriate to approach someone whom I think would be fitting, someone with whom I have had coaching, and ask for it
Yes, it is absolutely appropriate.

[fascination]

I think part of the distinction that needs to be made is between coaching and a coach. To my mind what fascination is describing/asking for is part of what a couple's coach does for them (be they am, pro-am, or pro)... BUT this is different from the "oh, so-and-so was in town and we took some coaching from them" version of going to a coach. There's obviously nothing wrong with getting that type of input, and in many cases it would be foolish not to do so, but if there isn't a coach (or a coordinated coaching team) that is directing, then a lot is being neglected in the preparation of a competitive dancer.
perhaps that is just it...having been studio-less for a year, we are just getting back in the swing of the regular presence of a coach or 2 or 3...and that process is lagging a tad behind my need for the advisory part or it...and I also have always kept my coachings strictly to the dancing issues, b/c lord knows there are plenty and they are my primary concern....BUT...I have a few other things I'd like to float past a third party who knows us both well enough to be candid and just haven't been in this long enough to even know whether or not that was an appropriate request...intended to run it past pro yesterday and never got around to it so I figured I'd toss it out here too....

[etp777]

perhaps that is just it...having been studio-less for a year, we are just getting back in the swing of the regular presence of a coach or 2 or 3

This is actually exactly fact/question i deleted from my post up there, but subject I was curious about. Think I"ll start a seperate thread for it though rather than mess with this one, as I think it's good question.

Also, agree with SDSalsaguy, I know my pro has had no problem (at least has shown no sign of it) when I've gone for some outside advice in this respect before. What can I say, I was very nervous about first comp, and have a lot of sources of information, so asked some people for input. :)

[evanluck]

perhaps that is just it...having been studio-less for a year, we are just getting back in the swing of the regular presence of a coach or 2 or 3...and that process is lagging a tad behind my need for the advisory part or it...and I also have always kept my coachings strictly to the dancing issues, b/c lord knows there are plenty and they are my primary concern....BUT...I have a few other things I'd like to float past a third party who knows us both well enough to be candid and just haven't been in this long enough to even know whether or not that was an appropriate request...intended to run it past pro yesterday and never got around to it so I figured I'd toss it out here too....

I think that is totally appropriate. As people have mentioned previously, this function is served by good coaches who coach am/am partnerships. During my two partnerships coaches that we saw regularly gave us pointers on how to work better together and gave us strategic advise on the direction of our partnership. Kind of like someone to take a look at your goals and figure out based on your strengths what is the best way to go about achieving them.

You seem to have an openly communicative relationship with your pro so I don't see how this could be a problem.

[fascination]

well ,as I said being relatively new to dance...can't believe it has been only 2 1/2 years myself sometimes, and b/c there does often seem to be territory into which the am part of pro/am is rarely invited, I just wanted to be sensitive to that...but no, I don't see pro having issues with it generally speaking...but I try to be sensitive to unspoken rules...things like comp organizers rarely sending the am the package ...things like making myself scarce when the coach has something to say to pro about what he ought to be doing better...even though pro is great about that too...anyhow, i appreciate folks views on this...thanks

[meow]

Here, if you are extremely lucky, you can have a top coach who will go above and beyond the call of duty. They will advise, listen, talk, and be totally honest with you, even if that honesty can be something you may not wish to hear. Now, that is what I call a great coach!!!!!

[etp777]

Fasc, tha'ts why I love this place, can ask questions like this without worrying about embarassing yourself. :)

[Larinda McRaven]

It is a great idea, having coaches that "specialize" in different aspects of the business. You have a great artistic coach to make things beautiful and interesting, a great technical coach to make the artistic stuff actually work, and a great "manager" coach to help guide you through the industry. Sometimes you get lucky and get a "two for one" deal.

It would surprise me greatly to hear of any top competitive couple that does not think this way.

[fascination]

kewl...am feeling better now b/c I have a feeling that is sort of what is perculating....hmmm

[fascination]

It would surprise me greatly to hear of any top competitive couple that does not think this way.course we aren't a top competitive couple:rolleyes:....BUT STILL...I think it is time to think this way

[etp777]

course we aren't a top competitive couple YET:p....BUT STILL...I think it is time to think this way


THere, fixed that for you fasc. :)

[fascination]

etp ....we won't ever be a top competitive couple.....at least not in the way that Larinda is referencing... but that's okay...doesn't mean I can't think like one and maximize my benefits like one...and achieve my maximum whatever that is

[etp777]

Exactly, all about attitude. I'm busy leaving for a year and still try to take that lookout.

Also hoping to come back and see her competing as top pro couple with someone. Just as long as she still has time to work with me. ;)

[tangotime]

Fasc.-- having coached for multi yrs-- I would ALWAYS welcome and entertain any Q, that was pertinent, to the advancement of my couple(s).

Whatsmore, if I didnt have an answer, I would find one .

I think I can say , without fear or favor, that most coaches would be more than willing to assist, an opinion other than your teachers, may give you a different perspective .

[fascination]

thanks, tt

[Angel HI]

I would like a third party advice beyond my dancing on a variety of issues and am simply wondering if it is appropriate to approach someone whom I think would be fitting, and ask for it

As a coach/adjudicator/examiner, IMO, know that it is most appropriate. And, as TT said....

Whatsmore, if I didnt have an answer, I would find one .

I think I can say , without fear or favor, that most coaches would be more than willing to assist....

My problem, my mother always said, is that I am often too truthful...or was, it tactless...:confused: :rolleyes: