Trading partners

[KevinL]

In another thread, Vince A said:
... no rotation (I was not going to have them rotate since most will be married), and keep it fun, Fun, FUN. ...


I replied with:

=====

The whole rotation/no rotation topic is often discussed among dancers and dance teachers. I can understand the point of view of the "no rotation" side, ie that people want to learn to dance with their partner, and that they might not be comfortable dancing with strangers.

However, I am completely on the "rotation" side for the following reasons:

A) Dancing is supposed to be social, and trading partners lets you meet (the opposite gender) half of the group. If you go out to a party do you only talk to your partner? No, the point is to talk with new people.

B) People learn better, and faster, if they trade partners because:

1) there is always a mix of skill levels, and (averaged out) you will get to dance with someone who knows what they are doing.

2) Everyone learns differently, and some people will catch on more quickly. If you and your significant both learn in the same way you might not catch some important point that most of the other people in the group do catch, and could show you if you trade partners.

3) If you only practice with one partner you learn to respond to (and perhaps anticipate) what that one partner will do. If you dance with multiple people it is much harder to anticipate what your partner will do, and you will be able to "feel" different ways of connecting with your partner.

4) People are more polite with strangers. Have you ever noticed married couples "arguing" on the dance floor? ("Honey, you're doing it wrong!") Will they behave the same way with a stranger, or will they pay more attention to what their partner is doing?

C) Not everyone has a partner, and neither sticking two people who might not know each other together nor having the "extra" partner(s) left out seem fair to those people.

Having said that all of that, I don't force people to trade partners in my classes. I heartily encourage trading partners, and when people realize that everyone else catches on more quickly (and that they get to dance with my assistant and/or myself), almost everyone eventually decides to trade partners.

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What is your opinion? I expect that competition level dancers would need to practice consitently with one partner, but that social dancers would do better with trading.

Kevin

[jon]

Rotation is good, but people may have valid reasons not to (example: shoulder injuries which leave them unwilling to dance with people they don't know and trust). It should be the expected behavior but not mandatory. It can be helpful to segregate the non-rotating couples so they don't confuse people rotating.

Instructors should make sure that when they call rotation, everyone hears - it's pretty common for some people to be talking with each other about the move, or not paying enough attention to hear "rotate" called out in a soft voice.

[Vince A]

Don't get me wrong KevinL . . . this is a Valentine's Ball, and except for one couple, non of them are dancers, nor have they seen a rotation like we all have seen dozens fo times at workshops/group classes . . . I will be hard pressed enough just getting up to the dance floor area; muchless, taking about 5 or so minutes from needed instruction time to explain to them how to rotate. You know the first few times that they will screw it up . . . until they too, learn. I want to make this easy on me too, ya' know?

Hopefully, many wil continue to take classes that will be offered, and that's where I'll intro rotation.

We already know how to rotate . . .

[KevinL]

Don't get me wrong KevinL . . . this is a Valentine's Ball,


Being a Valentines Ball is a good reason not to rotate, if there ever is one, 8^)

Have fun!

Kevin

[bordertangoman]

Look if you're boss you get to make the rules. I think dancers should rotate. I even have one half of a couple who leaves her partner behind so they don't argue.

And see also the link I posted earlier:
http://yohlg.free.fr/tangoleeds/features/psychodifficulty.htm

I think to learn to dance well you need to be adaptable. You don't learn that dancing with the same petrson

[tsb]

In another thread, Vince A said:
... no rotation (I was not going to have them rotate since most will be married), and keep it fun, Fun, FUN. ...


I replied with:

=====

The whole rotation/no rotation topic is often discussed among dancers and dance teachers. I can understand the point of view of the "no rotation" side, ie that people want to learn to dance with their partner, and that they might not be comfortable dancing with strangers.

However, I am completely on the "rotation" side for the following reasons:

<snip>

What is your opinion? I expect that competition level dancers would need to practice consitently with one partner, but that social dancers would do better with trading.

Kevin

i replied in two left feet, but there's another point - some people who are a couple dance as something to do together to improve their relationship. there's a couple within my dance circles who are fun to watch because it's obvious that they care about each other and they're having fun together - but i would describe them as technically deficient viewing them entirely objectively.

[Sagitta]

To each his/her own. That's my philosophy. I always encourage people to dance with others, for the reasons already mentioned. However, if they don't they are the ones that lose out. Some are happy just dancing with the few that they are comfortable with. Some people are happy with the regular comfortable routine they have with their small circle of friends...

[volleybgrl]

I'm all for rotation. If partners get too comfortable with each other, one might compensate for the other's mistakes (especially if both are beginners) Switching partners eliminates that and allows each person to correct errors that might otherwise be overlooked.

[tsb]

However, if they don't they are the ones that lose out.

i suspect that they'd suggest that if you haven't experienced how a common interest can enhance a relationship (and especially one like dancing since it involves extraordinary levels of connection and communication with each other), you'd be the one losing out; the pleasure comes in enjoying the journey together & learning the nuances of each other, not reaching the destination.

while it's true that the more technically skilled a dancer is, the more likely it is their partner will enjoy their dancing together, that can be made totally irrelevant by the fact that someone won't enjoy a dance if they decide not to - or that they will because they choose to.

i've got an acquaintance who routinely critiques everyone else on the floor, and he's pretty ruthless about it. even he comments (to my surprise)on how much fun it is to watch this couple dance together.

just to make sure you understand, i agree that rotating partners will generally help you to develop the skills that help you dance well with anyone, but i also recognize that not everyone places their goals in the same order of priority - and it's not wrong if they differ; usually means more money for me because they'll need more private lessons together! :lol: :lol: :lol: $ $ $

besides, anything worth doing is worth doing badly.

[Vince A]

I'm for the roatation . . . I'm for the rotation.

However, most of these women have had to practically tie their man up just to get him to the dance. I seriously doubt that they will want to dance with someone else . . . someone who he wouldn't complain to . . . maybe?

BUt, since some of you think it could work . . . I will put it to a vote . . . ask them if they want to rotate or stay with the one they brought, or the one who brought them.

We'll see . . . could be interesting.

[NeoDevin]

What some of my instructors do is get people to rotate, but let anyone who wants to stick with their partner do so, and we just skip over them.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

My two cents:

I think anyone who always dances with the same partner, no matter how great they look together, has not learnt to dance.

[SDsalsaguy]

My two cents:

I think anyone who always dances with the same partner, no matter how great they look together, has not learnt to dance.
Fair enough MLS, but they may have learned how to do what they wanted to none the less, no? :wink:

[KevinL]

I completely agree that forcing people to rotate is a bad choice, because if the person doesn't want to trade they won't enjoy it, and will be turned off from dancing. That is different, though, from vigourously encouraging everyone to trade partners.

BUt, since some of you think it could work . . . I will put it to a vote . . . ask them if they want to rotate or stay with the one they brought, or the one who brought them.

If you ask them if they want to rotate they will probably decide not to, and that will likely reinforce their decision that they shouldn't rotate.

(I assume that you will demonstrate leader and follower roles separately. If not, please adjust this advice.) After demonstrating the pattern, tell the people to go find thier partner. Practice two or three times, and then tell everyone to trade partners so that they get the feel of dancing with someone different. "Don't worry, you'll get back to your real partner in a moment." Then have everyone practice a couple more times. "Ok, now go back to your first partner and try it again. It's OK to kiss them when you get there." (Smile big.)

As long as you let people keep touching base with their "real" partner, they should be OK with trading to other partners.

Good luck either way!

Kevin

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

My two cents:

I think anyone who always dances with the same partner, no matter how great they look together, has not learnt to dance.
Fair enough MLS, but they may have learned how to do what they wanted to none the less, no? :wink:

Yeh, you´re right SD. If their objective is to dance with one another, then they´ve reached their goal.

Nevertheless I wouldn´t consider them dancers. For me, a dancer is someone who can not only dance with the great majority of the people but also adapt to other styles. When I say style I don´t mean on1, on2, cuban, LA, NY, etc., I´m referring to special and specific things people do when the dance.

When you´re used to dancing with the same person, you usually have major problems dancing with anyone else. You start thinking that the only good dancer is your partner, all the rest have two left feet which is not true. I can just imagine these people dancing with an "out of control Tasmanian Devil" type, probably would have to leave the girl/guy on the dance floor after 30 seconds. :wink:

Regards,

[tsb]

My two cents:

I think anyone who always dances with the same partner, no matter how great they look together, has not learnt to dance.
Fair enough MLS, but they may have learned how to do what they wanted to none the less, no? :wink:

Yeh, you´re right SD. If their objective is to dance with one another, then they´ve reached their goal.

Nevertheless I wouldn´t consider them dancers. For me, a dancer is someone who can not only dance with the great majority of the people but also adapt to other styles. When I say style I don´t mean on1, on2, cuban, LA, NY, etc., I´m referring to special and specific things people do when the dance.

When you´re used to dancing with the same person, you usually have major problems dancing with anyone else. You start thinking that the only good dancer is your partner, all the rest have two left feet which is not true. I can just imagine these people dancing with an "out of control Tasmanian Devil" type, probably would have to leave the girl/guy on the dance floor after 30 seconds. :wink:

Regards,

by your definition, most people who compete are not dancers, especially world champions, as they have most likely danced and practiced only with their competition partner for a number of years. i personally have little interest in competition dancing and deplore those who think of dance primarily as a competition sport, but i wouldn't go as far as to claim that these people are not dancers.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

by your definition, most people who compete are not dancers, especially world champions, as they have most likely danced and practiced only with their competition partner for a number of years. i personally have little interest in competition dancing and deplore those who think of dance primarily as a competition sport, but i wouldn't go as far as to claim that these people are not dancers.

Actually, I was referring to social dancing, competition dancing is a totally different world. I´m not against it. I think everyone who wishes to do it should go for it. I personally have no interest in competing. I dance because it touches my soul.

I´d like to share with you an experience I had.

When I first started dancing, I had this partner who I primarily danced with. After a while, I could only dance well with her. The few times I actually danced with other girls, it felt ackward, there was no connection, no synchronism, etc. I naturally deduced that the other ladies didn´t know how to dance and that I was a great dancer. After some time I realized I was wrong. It was I that couldn´t dance. I was so used to my partner that not only did we compenate for each others mistakes, we also subconciously memorized each others style. I then decided to dance with as many girls as possible in order to improve my dancing skills and become more versatile.

After some time, the partner I referred to above started dating a local salsero (who had very little dancing skills). She was so dedicated to him that very rarely danced with anyone else. They dated for almost a year. I only danced with her 2-3 times during this time period and when I did, it went really badly. I could no longer dance with her. :shock: We had so much connection before! She´d subconciously "force" me to lead her in a certain way, ie, in the way the other guy did. :( It felt like she was leading and I was following. She was very agressive about it! Hmm... After she broke up with him, we met at a club and she asked me for a dance. Once again it didn´t go well. I looked into her face and saw that she was very frustrated. After the dance she explained that she couldn´t dance with anyone anymore and felt very badly about it. The guys would say to her "You used to dance well, what happened?". Eventually she started dancing with a variety of partners and improved her dancing skills.

This was a great learning experience for me.