Smiling and salsa

[volleybgrl]

I need some comments from any seasoned salseros y salseras out there. I was watching the experienced dancers at a club last night and noticed that hardly any of them smiled while dancing. :shock: Of course there was an apology smile if there was a slight mix up or right after an awesome open shine :) , but their facial expressions were so serious for the rest of the time. When I dance, I am always smiling, giggling occasionally, and having fun :D , but the "veterans" seem to shy away from that. Why is this so? I know salsa is supposed to be sexy and flirty :wink: , but does that mean not smiling? (or is it just something that happens in this salsa community?) Any thoughts :?:

-Jenn

[pygmalion]

You're right, volleybgirl ( I didn't know you were Jenn, too. Cool. 8) :D ) People do look like they're taking their salsa awfully seriously.

[Sagitta]

There are some who do and some who don't. I've seen veteran dancers in our small community who remain serious throughout and some who don't.

[borikensalsero]

alright... Here are a few reason why some people seem to smile more than others, and some experienced dancers never really smile. Not to say that everyone does it because of this, but it is a rough idea.

Fun, it usually leads to smiles. Someone who is having fun is always smiling.
Passion, it usually leads to higher state of enjoyment, which can incorporate fun, but it replaces smiles with expression more along the lines of passion, which one might be an intense facial expression that can, and is mistaken with seriousness.

Dancers can either be passionate about their dancing, hence causing them to be more into what they are feeling and sharing with the other person than demonstrating the joy they feel, with a smile. However, if you see those same advanced dancers out to just have fun, mock around and not care about what they do, the passion this time will be replaced with signs of joy. Smiles will sprout everywhere. They have basically chosen to display one emotion over another.

When you are learning to dance salsa, at least to me, it is all about fun, smiling, etc. But then when you get to a point where something greater than joy happens, you don’t react with a smile, you react with passion, and very seldom a smile is representative of a high level of passion. A smile in this case would bring down the passionate emotion you feel.

Try it, get caught up talking about something you are passionate about, as soon as you sense your eyes getting smaller, your mouth drying, your heart pounding, start smiling. It will automatically cause your feelings to change. The intensity at which your body was displaying passion has no choice but to change. Those changes is what you see on some dancers. Simple an elevated state of intensity, which at times it is best suited for an intense look as opposed to a smile or joyful display of what you are feeling at the moment..

Some people are just too serious and uptight; hence they can never really smile. Others think they are too good and need not to smile because they are too snobby as dancers. Others are simply afraid for X reason…. Some are just not comfortable dancers, despite their advance label, that truly need absolute concentration do perform given moves, hence the absence of the smiles.

There are pretty much a million and one reason why a dancer doesn’t smile, some never even know why they don’t.

[danceguy]

Fun, it usually leads to smiles. Someone who is having fun is always smiling.
Passion, it usually leads to higher state of enjoyment, which can incorporate fun, but it replaces smiles with expression more along the lines of passion, which one might be an intense facial expression that can, and is mistaken with seriousness.

Boriken my friend...you just described me better than I ever could myself....

Thank you... :notworth:

[volleybgrl]

When you are learning to dance salsa, at least to me, it is all about fun, smiling, etc. But then when you get to a point where something greater than joy happens, you don’t react with a smile, you react with passion, and very seldom a smile is representative of a high level of passion. A smile in this case would bring down the passionate emotion you feel.

You're awesome Boriken...thanks for the insight. :D

[HothouseSalsero]

Borikensalsero, that was a great analysis and explanation.

I know that I have a serious expression much of the time while I'm dancing, and in all honesty, I'm not always sure why. Sometimes it's probably just because I am so focused, which could partly be the result of trying to get making everything work out okay. Sometimes it could be those intense feelings that salsa dancing generates, which, Borikensalsero is correct, aren't necessarily best expressed with a smile.

That friend I mentioned taking out salsa dancing a couple weeks back commented on how serious I looked while dancing: "If I didn't know you, I'd have thought you were angry with me." Maybe I should try to smile more? I don't think regular dancers would be likely to get that impression though. Anyway, I think I often give my partner a big smile when the dance is over, and maybe a thank you. Plus I like to think that the way I hold my partner communicates how am feeling about her (in other words, not angry).

[HothouseSalsero]

(Having said all that, one of the things that initially attracted me about my last girlfriend was the fact that when I tried some sort of advanced duck under move and hit my head against her arm, she laughed about it, but not in a mean way.)

[youngsta]

If you do not want to see a smile don't dance with me! I'm cheesin through the entire dance. Women are always making comments about how much I smile...see :D

[dancin_feet]

Since I have only just started ballroom Salsa in the last few months, I'm not sure about that but for other dances, I'll smile if it is all working, but if I need to concentrate, the smile tends to disappear. Not that I'm not enjoying myself, just having to concentrate on what's coming next.

Need to work on my brain and my facial muscles working at the same time! :lol:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Fun, it usually leads to smiles. Someone who is having fun is always smiling.
Passion, it usually leads to higher state of enjoyment, which can incorporate fun, but it replaces smiles with expression more along the lines of passion, which one might be an intense facial expression that can, and is mistaken with seriousness.

Boriken my friend...you just described me better than I ever could myself....

Thank you... :notworth:

Same here Boriken! I was reading your post and thinking, "Wow, this is exactly what happens to me". :D

I sometimes smile a lot, other times I have a very serious face. It all depends if I´m having fun or if I´m feeling the passion inside me. When I first started dancing, the serious face meant I was heavily concentrated on the moves/lead/technique.

When you decide to write a book on dance, please tell me. I want to be the first to buy it (yeh, before you SG :tongue: ). I know for certain it´ll be a best seller in the dance world. :notworth:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

When you decide to write a book on dance, please tell me. I want to be the first to buy it (yeh, before you SG :tongue: ). I know for certain it´ll be a best seller in the dance world. :notworth:

By the way, I want mine hardcovered and autographed. 8)

[dragon3085]

Some people are just too serious and uptight; hence they can never really smile. Others think they are too good and need not to smile because they are too snobby as dancers. Others are simply afraid for X reason…. Some are just not comfortable dancers, despite their advance label, that truly need absolute concentration do perform given moves, hence the absence of the smiles.

There are pretty much a million and one reason why a dancer doesn’t smile, some never even know why they don’t.
This is pretty much my opinion of most of the human race. :twisted: However one other reason a guy in austin told, me is that latino men don't smile because it doesn't look macho. What a sad sad life the guy must lead.

[pepe]

Have you notice that students mimic instructors even in face expressions?
We have discussion over here and concluded that most of serious dancers are from such instructors. Or their character attracts them to those instructors, I don’t know.

I don’t know if they really enjoy “inside”. You can call that passion, but they look too focused to enjoy in my opinion. Even inside.

Unfortunately Salsa is becoming more about performance (“dancing for audience” what I call) and competing. Many better dancers dance to show off and those are - serious!

Also, unfortunately, some people confuse smile and eye contact as a request for something more then just a dance. So they try to keep distance from smiley person (new for them) by being “cold and serious”.

So, if you are cheerful and passion driven person in real life and you don’t see Salsa as a way to impress dancers around, and you are not shy/stay-away person - than there is no reason not to enjoy for yourself and your partner and - smile.

BTW We concluded people that smile are much more fun to dance with.

Share the passion :)

[salsachinita]

Welcome to DF, Pepe!

Unfortunately Salsa is becoming more about performance (“dancing for audience” what I call) and competing. Many better dancers dance to show off and those are - serious!

Too true. We need more people to get pass their egos........ :roll:

BTW We concluded people that smile are much more fun to dance with.

Share the passion :)

Love that attitude :D !

[HothouseSalsero]

My instructor (who I am apparently no longer taking lessons with) smiles more than the average person, but when I dance I still don't smile that much, so I don't think it necessarily has a lot to do with who your instructor is.

[Canadian Guy]

I know that you asked for comments from seasoned dancers but here is a view from a newbie.

I know I should smile and look at the girl in the eye but when I do, I get so distracted :oops: that I forget all my patterns and can't dance anything but the basic steps.

So if you see me on the dance floor with a serious face and not smiling its not because I am not having any fun but because I am trying to remember my steps and trying to figure out my next pattern :wink:

[volleybgrl]

I know that you asked for comments from seasoned dancers but here is a view from a newbie.

Welcome to the Forum! Thanks for the input. Responses to my question seem to vary across the board, which is great. It's helped me really focus on how I feel while I'm dancing...but when in doubt, like youngsta, I'll be "cheezin it up." :D

[Pacion]

So if you see me on the dance floor with a serious face and not smiling its not because I am not having any fun but because I am trying to remember my steps and trying to figure out my next pattern :wink:

I always try to smile, for a number of reasons -
a) it me to relax, especially when dancing with someone and I am not particularly enjoy the dance - don't like the song, his lead or I am having an 'off moment'
b) if I am enjoying the song/the lead etc, I feel more of a connection with my partner, especially if he is looking at me and sees me smiling (which then hopefully tells him he is doing something right :wink: )
c) I use how (big smile and the eyes are smiling also) and how much I smile as a gauge to myself as to how I am connecting with the person I am dancing with. If I realise that the smile hasn't been around for say 15-30 seconds, I have to do something about, so that I am smiling.

If it is a particularly 'gentle'/romantic/slow salsa, then the smile is not so huge but, more in keeping with the song 8)

[salsalawyer]

it`s something i have to work on too.


I think when you get caught up in patterns and whatnot, you have to think too much. But of course that takes away from the fun and freedom that allows for a smile. Thinking too much takes away from the fun.


For example, I seldom smile during lessons because I am concentrating and trying to learn. People have told me that they can tell when I am doing something new on the dancefloor because I smile a lot less. Once I learn or master the move ( or my version of it) I am back to my cheeful self.

[borikensalsero]

When I'm learning new moves in class, I'm a goof ball, I smile I joke around, but then on the floor, if I don't have a smile, my face looks like I'm dancing tango... I'm in love with just about every song, when the hot ones go one, my "game" face is on... No time to smile for me... unless of course I'm just goofing off and having fun, playing around with the girl.

BTW, pacion smiles with both her eyes and her mouth... you can tell she loves what she is doing. 8)

[Lita_rulez]

I had the exact same discussion a while back in France.

Well actually, the topic that is brought up regularily is the one brought up here : Why do so many advance dancer not smile.

But lately, we turned it around to : Why should smiling while dancing be compulsory ?

I have red borikensalsero's post, and could not agry more. I am so happy to find out that there actually are people out there that feel the way I do about smiling...

It all depends on the way you consider Salsa. If to you it is a way to have fun and show a good time, of course you are going to be smiling a lot !

But if you get really caught in the spirit of things, if you forget that there are people around dancing, people around looking at you, lights, a bar, noise, movement...
If you get to that point where you just connect with your dancer and the music, where everyone and everything else seems gray, tasteless, like there is a cloud or something... You only focus on your dancer, you connect, you see through her eyes that she feels the same way as you do, and the two of you just fuse with the music...
Then, your face is going to react as your whole body is : in connection to the music. As much as a musician interprets a song with his instrument, a dancer does so with his body language. And if the song sounds sad, or pasionate, then you are defintly not going to smile the song away !!!!

Show me someone smiling while dancing "Perdoname" and I'll show you someone who is not "living" the song.

Now I am not judging, I am not saying that you should allways dance to the maximum of what your feelings can take before you actually break down and cry, I am not saying that the guy who is a second away from making love to his partner on "seduce me" understands salsa better then the one smiling, and I am certainly not saying that one is having a better time than the other and the other should quit jerking around and start living the music.

But since I do not ask of every one to "live the music to the fullest" on every song, I'd like for those who smile all the time to stop saying "zey don't smile coz they so uptight and full ofzemselvz, think everyone looks at'em"


And though I do not ask of everyone to live the music, I do however wish to everyone to experience it at least once...

[Edit] : got the correct spelling for the title of the song :oops:

[borikensalsero]

Lita_rulez

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

Love reading your posts Lita!!!!!

[Lita_rulez]

Love reading your posts Lita!!!!!

Right back at you boriken !

For a while there I didn't even know if I should add anything to what you had said, because you had said it all, and said it well.

But since I enjoyed knowing some people out there do feel the same way, I believe the least I could do was agree out loud :wink:

[missy_xx]

Various dance partners have told me to smile more while dancing. I know it is true what they are saying. I hardly ever smile while I'm dancing. I don't know why that is. I really enjoy dancing. It doesn't matter whom I'm dancing with. I try to think of smiling, but it never works out.
The only time I was smiling while dancing was on my holiday.
I guess that I'm just very shy and can only feel comfortable enough with myself among people that I will never see again. I really should work on that, 'cause I know it's not fun dancing to someone who isn't smiling.

[MacMoto]

I'm the opposite -- I just can't stop smiling when dancing because dancing makes me happy, even when the song is meant to be sad. Maybe it means I'm not advanced enough to really appreciate the music, but I'm just happy to be happy! :D

[tj]

General question here:

So those of you who are uncomfortable about smiling... what happens when your partner looks you in the eye and smiles at you?

Do you get embarassed and look away? :oops:

Or do you smile back? :D

Or are you too shy to notice if your partner smiles at you? (You know... there are ways to force you to notice that I'm smiling at you... even if it's only for an instant.)

[salsachinita]

I'm the opposite -- I just can't stop smiling when dancing because dancing makes me happy, even when the song is meant to be sad. Maybe it means I'm not advanced enough to really appreciate the music, but I'm just happy to be happy! :D

:D Me too! Sista....! *high-five!*

[Vin]

Normally I am one of the stone-faced, but lately I have begun smiling alot. In fact saturday night I felt like I had a permanent smile on my face.
I was really feeling it more than normal too. A couple of dancers in the group whom I normally don't feel a great connection with on saturday we really did have a great connection.
The thing is one shouldn't try and force a smile, if it comes great but when you try and force it you will end up mechanical.

[squirrel]

I am singing together with the song :)... I am happy when I dance and even though I don't smile all the time, people told me my face is filled with joy... :) I took it as a compliment and a way for the people to forget and forgive my dancing mistakes... :roll: :oops: :D

[missy_xx]

General question here:

So those of you who are uncomfortable about smiling... what happens when your partner looks you in the eye and smiles at you?

Do you get embarassed and look away?

Or do you smile back?


When someone smiles at me, I get embarassed, but I do smile back.

[jenn]

yes, smiling is something i keep working on.
sometimes, the partners i dance with would tell me i should smile more, but i thought they were just flirting. heh, was i wrong! :lol:
then it happened. one of my friends brought a video camera to an event and i later saw myself on a clip in the video. i was horrified!! i looked soooo unhappy and miserable.
...b..b..but i was really having fun at that moment...i thought to myself. :oops:

i was never aware that i had such a 'serious' look when i danced. i guess because i worried so much about getting it right that it showed on my face. :lol:

after that point, i made a concious effort to smile and make eye contact more often. its not always easy, especially if a guy is trying a tricky new move, but at least now a smile is easier.
(plus, ive learned it boosts self-confidence! :wink: )

[mellody43]

I smile a lot when I'm dancing -- unless I'm dancing with someone who isn't very engaged with me, not looking at me, not smiling, whatever. Then I'm more neutral-faced . But I love smiling/laughing while I'm dancing -- as much as possible! It's part of the flirty nature of the dance too. And based on how many dancers seem to respond to this this lighthearted attitude, it's a good thing - and I will continue "cheesin' " as Youngsta so eloquently put it! hehe!

:lol: <---me!

Melissa

[Sagitta]

An interesting discussion. I like what you say Lita, too. After some more experience dancing I think that smiling or not smiling is irrelevant. What is important is the connection between you and your partner. I woud see a comment on smiling being more a comment not on you should smile, but "hey, I can't feel you connecting with me! I feel I'm dancing alone!" My 2 cents, a little wiser, I hope. :wink:

[Danish Guy]

After some more experience dancing I think that smiling or not smiling is irrelevant. What is important is the connection between you and your partner. I woud see a comment on smiling being more a comment not on you should smile, but "hey, I can't feel you connecting with me! I feel I'm dancing alone!" My 2 cents, a little wiser, I hope. :wink:

I buy the 2 cent with the connection! 8)

[salsachinita]

I've come to a conclusion that I must be one of those people who smiles a lot.

[Sabor]

It depends.. sometimes u are not smiling but u are on a different level of dance euphoria.. and other times u are smiling like u gona split your cheeks.. it really depends on many factors coming together at the time.. if each dance feels different then naturally u will express yourself different.. nothing big .. but very subtle changes take place and that just the 'tip of the iceberg' side of things.. there are many kind of smiles and expressions that may show.. and ot other times non-smiling expressions take over yet underneath is a raging passion may surface on your face in different mannerisms..

bottom line.. i think u shouldn't try to control your expression in social dance.. let it come out without thinking is best.. i will feel your pleasure or discomfort or whatever no matter what any how.. plus.. if i see some one putting on 'the smile' 24/7.. i'm sure to get bored with it sooner than later .. i'll just feel it aint normal .. some kind of mask is on.. and its a turn-off for me that way :?