Quality of Instruction in Pro Am

[biggestbox]

ok, so this is a little off topic. But does anyone think that pro-am really provide quality dance instruction? I think the biggest problem is that you only take lessons with one person. In the beginning, one coach is fine, but as you advance (talking at least open here) you need different perspectives, new technical ideas (yes there are different techniques in ballroom) to figure out what works within your body. I would even go so far to say that having a main coach isn't that important. (it becomes important later, because you can be judged and ranked according to your affiliation. Anyways, World class couples take lessons all the time from a huge variety of coaches (sometime 4-5 lessons a day with different people).

Has there ever been a champion dancer who came from pro-am?

Dancers in the US especially have to be a lot smarter then their European peers because it is rare to have the same early intense training. I think it is important to find coaches who really think about technique and the philosophy of partner dance.

Quick example, Nadia Eftdal is the only American born woman to win Blackpool (pro latin), she never won a world championship but Blackpool is pretty damn good. Having taken a few classes with her, you can easily tell that she thinks about technique and movement far beyond her European peers.

[moderated by latingal - moved this post from another thread to begin discussion here]

[etp777]

Tony Dovolani started as a plain old franchise pro/am student in a Fred Astaire school

Most of the FA's here in our region have you work with at least two teachers. Either straight split, or a pro/buddy teacher setup (whcih is what i do). But even in that, besides those two, do group lessons with all the other teachers in the studio from time to time, have a regular coach (who also coaches the pros, which is nice), and also have one-off coaches: blackpool champs, FA pros like Tony dovolani, etc, into the studio.

So Pro/am, at least for us here, certainly doesn't limit you to only one teacher.

[chica latina]

I know very highly ranked couples that have only 1 coach and dont take lessons with many people. They know a lot of people do, but they believe it is for political reasons. The problem with taking lessons with too many people is that everyone could have a different perspective about it and some could conflict... I guess if you take with different coaches that believe in the same thing.. may be easier.

[latingal]

I think the biggest problem is that you only take lessons with one person. In the beginning, one coach is fine, but as you advance (talking at least open here) you need different perspectives, new technical ideas (yes there are different techniques in ballroom) to figure out what works within your body.

I think it depends on the quality of instructor you have. If you have a top level instructor who has competed at high levels of competition, they have probably taken a lot of top notch coaching in their careers with different coaches and bring the knowledge of different techniques to their teaching.

Has there ever been a champion dancer who came from pro-am?

I believe I heard that Corky Ballas started out int pro-am.

[biggestbox]

Really? Could you name some examples? I would venture to guess that every one of the top 12 pro dancers in the world use a large number of coaches. Read bryan and Carmen's retirement interview, they talk very strongly of dancing their way, developing their idea of a partnership.

Also Tony Dovolani is good, but do you think he would even last in an high lvl international competition? Blackpool, UK, German Open, Russian, Japan? Bob and Julia kind of made the switch to international, but they even had much harder time .

[Me]

Hmmm.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you are talking about two different things - Finding your best personal voice in dance, and finding a best way to win in competition.

I'm not entirely sure the two are always compatible.

[latingal]

I would venture to guess that every one of the top 12 pro dancers in the world use a large number of coaches.

Exactly the point...if you have a high level instructor, they will have taken coaching with many coaches and bring that knowledge to teaching their pro-am students.

I guess it depends on the willingness or need for the instructor to share different technique. My pro for one has not hesitated to explain the merits of different varieties of technique when I have asked.

[latingal]

Dont get me wrong, I do think it is a good idea to take coaching with other coaches/instructors too. Sometimes they bring a fresh perspective to the work.

[Chris Stratton]

to the original poster: yes, if someone limits themselves in those ways then they have limited themselves in those ways; but not all pro-am students work with only one teacher. Many of the more serious ones will go to another teacher with their partner-teacher.

In terms of competitive couples who have "only one coach" in a political way - usually that more precisely means, "one local coach, plus guests brought in by that coach, and travel to work with people recommended by that coach". There's a big practical difference between that, and only ever working with one specific individual teacher.

[elisedance]

ok, so this is a little off topic. But does anyone think that pro-am really provide quality dance instruction?


As I see it, the difference between taking lessons with an amateur and with a pro is that the latter is better. So, if you are both serious about the lesson, I think you will learn better technique with the pro - I think it did me wonders. However, the difference between learning to dance with an amateur and a pro is that you get a lot more practice, contact time (and critism) with the former. This means you incorporate new learning better and develop your own way of dealing with problem areas. Unfortunately, much of this eventually has to be unlearned with your pro. As an older dancer, doing pro-am was a fantastic way to improve fast - besides, there wasn't any choice since there were no Ams around in any case!

[Chris Stratton]

As I see it, the difference between taking lessons with an amateur and with a pro is that the latter is better. So, if you are both serious about the lesson, I think you will learn better technique with the pro

In some ways yes, but there's also another important issue.

Some aspects of teaching have to be done "outside" the couple.

Sometimes even standing next to them is too close to get a full perspective - things may be readily obvious from 30 feet away on the benches that just get overlooked when you are closer to the action.

Or consider how surprising it can be when you see your own dancing on video for the first time in months, during which you had only feeling and mirrors to form an impression from?

There are obviously many things a teacher can help with directly, physically, by being inside the couple. And teachers are going to be better than ordinary dancers at forming a total impression from the feel inside or the view close up; but fully teaching all aspects of the dance requires an outside view - which if the teacher is stuck inside as part of the couple, means that occasionally a second teacher is going to be required on the outside.

[etp777]

Or a second teacher on inside, while pro watches.

Completely agree Chris. have had weeks where I go in for a group lesson same day, or day before, private lesson with pro. And first thing she'll say is that "While you were in grou pwith X teacher last night I noticed that you were doing this wrong. We must have missed that, so here's how to fix it.." and go from there. Same thing when I started working with buddy teacher. First 4 months of dancing, and through first comp, I was just with my pro. Had never danced before this, so she was only one I'd ever danced with (well, outside of parties and stuff at the studio). First few times with buddy teacher, noticed many things that pro and I had missed or kind of taken for granted, that buddy teacher picked right up on. Some of which were rather embarassing on my part. :)

[biggestbox]

"Me" don't you think that finding your personal voice and winning competitions are part of the same thing? When you dance at a level that everyone has very good technique, you've got to communicate your ideas about dance.

Question is this, how can you find your own voice if you have only one guy telling you what HIS (or her) idea of dance is? I personally don't think so.

If you are still dealing with basic technique, forget everything I've been saying. But if you are an open AM, RS or open pro dancer (adult A for pro-am), I would be very interested to know if you think winning competitions is all about routine and technique or whether it is about who can transmit the ideas into movement.

I remember Donnie Burns gave a lecture at Blackpool a few years ago, talking about this idea of communication and partnership entitled "The X factor." Did anyone go to that? comments?

[elisedance]

I agree Chris - though you can get an outside view using a video that the pro in hand can analyze. I certainly had a lot of experiences like that after comps - when if anything can fall apart it will :o That raises another rather interesting issue: if you are doing pro/am do you get coaching from visiting coaches with your pro? I think we talked about this a bit before - but in a slightly different context. I would certainly have loved to do that - developing the partnership aspect of the pro/am couple (which is what you are ultimately judged on in multidance events). Of course, the costs could be a total nightmare!

[etp777]

Yep, my coachings have been with pro. And the cost is insane then, yeah, as I pay both my regular lesson fee plus the fee for the coach. Certainly hurts the checking account, but worth it, I think. I know the pros like it too, at least the ones who really care about improving themselves too, not just selling as many lessons as possible, making as much money as possible, etc

[elisedance]

"Me" don't you think that finding your personal voice and winning competitions are part of the same thing? When you dance at a level that everyone has very good technique, you've got to communicate your ideas about dance.

Question is this, how can you find your own voice if you have only one guy telling you what HIS (or her) idea of dance is? I personally don't think so.

If you are still dealing with basic technique, forget everything I've been saying. But if you are an open AM, RS or open pro dancer (adult A for pro-am), I would be very interested to know if you think winning competitions is all about routine and technique or whether it is about who can transmit the ideas into movement.

I remember Donnie Burns gave a lecture at Blackpool a few years ago, talking about this idea of communication and partnership entitled "The X factor." Did anyone go to that? comments?

No - but I think a god should swoop down at this moment and start you off on another thread - one of my favorite topics right now, this magic of expression that you can achieve when the method is working. Actually, it may appear easier in pro/am. Imagine yourself dancing with a blackpool champion - don't you think that would inspire you to express more than you usually do??? In am you first have to get beyond poorer technique before you can think about musicality....

[elisedance]

Yep, my coachings have been with pro. And the cost is insane then, yeah, as I pay both my regular lesson fee plus the fee for the coach. Certainly hurts the checking account, but worth it, I think. I know the pros like it too, at least the ones who really care about improving themselves too, not just selling as many lessons as possible, making as much money as possible, etc

then I hope your pro lowers her fee - if they are getting instruction too. That woudl seem to only be fair...

[liz]

I have always taken from different pros. When ever the chance comes. It is funny how you can hear the same thing a thousand times and someone else can say the same thing a little different...Then, it just clicks..I like variety... Keeps my passion alive.

[etp777]

Oh, it's not up to pro though, up to studio, and they still charge the fee.

[Brush Tap]

I'd also like to think there are sort of two classes of pros... doing pro-am with a teacher who is actively competing with a pro-partner and winning at a high level isn't really the same as doing pro-am with a teacher who has never been highly ranked nationally and who might literally (in some studios) just be several days beyond the student. So, a lot of it has to do with which "type" of pro you have.

[rjcbear]

I'd also like to think there are sort of two classes of pros... doing pro-am with a teacher who is actively competing with a pro-partner and winning at a high level isn't really the same as doing pro-am with a teacher who has never been highly ranked nationally and who might literally (in some studios) just be several days beyond the student. So, a lot of it has to do with which "type" of pro you have.

That is good point there.

[Me]

In the beginning, one coach is fine, but as you advance (talking at least open here) you need different perspectives, new technical ideas (yes there are different techniques in ballroom) to figure out what works within your body. I would even go so far to say that having a main coach isn't that important. (it becomes important later, because you can be judged and ranked according to your affiliation.

Hmmm.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you are talking about two different things - Finding your best personal voice in dance, and finding a best way to win in competition.

I'm not entirely sure the two are always compatible.

Clear now?

[Chris Stratton]

Oh, it's not up to pro though, up to studio, and they still charge the fee.

Much as is the norm with the more highly competitive am/am, highly competitive pro/am is likely to be negotiated directly with the teacher, not with a studio. It may well not even be confined to one location.

[soupdaloup]

While the quality of instruction may be better working directly with a pro every time you dance like in pro/am the sad reality of dance is that it is more about muscle memory than anything and practicing without a parter is difficult not impossible but your only practicing half the equation.

In a perfect world we would all have amatuer partners at a level appropriate to ours but alas this is the real world and it comes down to opportunity. Whether we can get a partner through luck/talent or looks or if we have to pay for the privelidge.

[latingal]

Welcome to DF soupdaloup.

[latingal]

Question is this, how can you find your own voice if you have only one guy telling you what HIS (or her) idea of dance is? I personally don't think so.

So far in my experience, I have found that only I can bring my own voice to the dancing. Pros can help me experiment with different techniques and modes, but in the end - finding my voice is about what I bring to the dance - my personality, my movement, my strengths and weaknesses in my unique combinations. For me, experimentation is the order of the day.

Again, depending on the type of pro you have - they may or may not be able to help you with this and you may have to search outside of your own box.

[Laura]

I've competed in Pro/Am with three different teachers, and have taken private lessons from...dozens, both male and female. I'm not even going to bother to count them. And I don't mean just going to another person once or twice for coaching, I've often taken a several-month series of lessons from another teacher while still working with my primary teacher (the one I compete with). In fact, right now I'm taking from two teachers, one male, one female (it's interesting getting the different perspectives). My teachers all also coach amateur couples, and all were actively competing as Pros when I was competing in Pro/Am with them.

So any generalization about Pro/Am instruction is just that, a generalization.

I'll agree, though, that yes, it is different from dancing and competing with a peer partner. But, having also danced in several amateur partnerships over the years, it's not as different as some people who have never tried Pro/Am would think.

[danceronice]

I would just add that there is another category besides actively competing and barely ahead of the student, and that's done competing because s/he has already won as much as s/he feels s/he needs to. Neither of my pros is actively competing at the moment, but they're a lot more accomplished than some people who are.

And yes, I actively compete pro/am with two different pros (same studio, not a chain.) I take group lessons from a third and pick up the occasional lesson from a fourth, and one day when I have unlimited funds (ha!) I need to get in a lesson from a female pro for technique. I really have not gotten the impression that the 'norm' in pro-am is just ONE coach's input all the time.

[etp777]

Much as is the norm with the more highly competitive am/am, highly competitive pro/am is likely to be negotiated directly with the teacher, not with a studio. It may well not even be confined to one location.


Oh, absolutely Chris, I was just responding in refernece to my coachings with pro. And I'm not a top pro/am or am/am dancer, I'm just a mediocre pro/am syllabus dancer at a chain school. :)

Was responding more to ED than to original question.

[evanluck]

ok, so this is a little off topic. But does anyone think that pro-am really provide quality dance instruction? I think the biggest problem is that you only take lessons with one person. In the beginning, one coach is fine, but as you advance (talking at least open here) you need different perspectives, new technical ideas (yes there are different techniques in ballroom) to figure out what works within your body. I would even go so far to say that having a main coach isn't that important. (it becomes important later, because you can be judged and ranked according to your affiliation. Anyways, World class couples take lessons all the time from a huge variety of coaches (sometime 4-5 lessons a day with different people).

Has there ever been a champion dancer who came from pro-am?

Dancers in the US especially have to be a lot smarter then their European peers because it is rare to have the same early intense training. I think it is important to find coaches who really think about technique and the philosophy of partner dance.

Quick example, Nadia Eftdal is the only American born woman to win Blackpool (pro latin), she never won a world championship but Blackpool is pretty damn good. Having taken a few classes with her, you can easily tell that she thinks about technique and movement far beyond her European peers.

[moderated by latingal - moved this post from another thread to begin discussion here]

In any scenario to be a successful competitive dancer, you need a partner and quality coaching. In the beginning of a competitive pro-am arrangement the pro may serve both roles. However as many have testified to this does not always continue.

In any case pro-am is just a format of competitive ballroom. I do not think that there is anything inherent about the format that limits your ability to progress as a dancer even to championship levels. The only factor that may be limiting in the pro-am format is money, as it typically costs more money than competing am-am because you have to pay your partner to practice and participate in coaching sessions. However, some competitors do not have limited financial resources but may be limited by the availability of quality amateur partners. In this case pro-am dancing may actually be the quickest way to progress as a competitive dancer.

As far as champions coming from pro-am ranks when was the last time someone who was born and trained in the U.S. or Canada (effectively the only countries where pro-am exists) won a world title in Latin or Standard. For that matter when was the last time someone who was born and trained in the U.S. or Canada won the U.S. Championship in Latin or Standard. The lack of championships from pro-am has more to do with the format being exclusive to countries where national emphasis on dancesport especially youth dancesport is lacking or perhaps by the stigma associated with pro-am that keeps talented and committed dancers away from it.

[liz]

amen!!!

[syncopationator]

ok, so this is a little off topic. But does anyone think that pro-am really provide quality dance instruction? I think the biggest problem is that you only take lessons with one person. In the beginning, one coach is fine, but as you advance (talking at least open here) you need different perspectives, new technical ideas (yes there are different techniques in ballroom) to figure out what works within your body. I would even go so far to say that having a main coach isn't that important. (it becomes important later, because you can be judged and ranked according to your affiliation. Anyways, World class couples take lessons all the time from a huge variety of coaches (sometime 4-5 lessons a day with different people).

Has there ever been a champion dancer who came from pro-am?

Dancers in the US especially have to be a lot smarter then their European peers because it is rare to have the same early intense training. I think it is important to find coaches who really think about technique and the philosophy of partner dance.

Quick example, Nadia Eftdal is the only American born woman to win Blackpool (pro latin), she never won a world championship but Blackpool is pretty damn good. Having taken a few classes with her, you can easily tell that she thinks about technique and movement far beyond her European peers.

[moderated by latingal - moved this post from another thread to begin discussion here]

You are comparing apples to oranges (i.e a pro/am dancer vs. a "world class" professional or amateur dancer)

Most am partnerships in pro/am begin their dancing as adults. Some, although a minority, in their mid to late teens. Most of the ones that start before their teenage years end up finding an am partner before they are adults.

To most, including myself, that started as adults, dancing is a hobby and we have no intention of making it our profession (although we wish we were talented enough to make it so :D). That doesn't mean that we don't take it seriously, afterall we are still competitors, but we choose to compete in the pro/am category each for our own personal reason.

As far as having various coaches, as we are learning the basics, we work mostly with our "pro" because its comfortable and because we still have a lot to learn before working with a separate coach even starts to make sense. As we start to discover more about our dancing and reach certain goals and we improve, it begins to feel like a real partnership and not just teacher/student. At this point it makes sense to seek the outside help of one or a few coaches. But usually not for political reasons. (Not to say there are not politics in pro/am, but the politics of pro/am are very different from the politics of open amateurs or professionals. That discussion probably belongs on a different thread if it ought to be discussed at all.)

I don't need to get into the reasons why world class amateur and professional couples get coaching, each has their own goals; however, I will point out that just like in pro/am, amateur couples choose to dance at the amateur level for their own personal reasons just like pros have their own reason for dancing pro. This has nothing to do with talent, as I have witnessed myself at many competitions where the am pool is much stronger than the pro pool. Some major comps are exempt from this of course. At least in the U.S., the pro/am $$$ is a big influence for turning pro. If you are a good pro teacher you can easily make a six figure salary dancing pro/am. Most college grads don't make close to that kind of money. Not trying to go off topic, but just pointing out one of the many reasons why one would dance pro.

[tanya_the_dancer]

to the original poster: yes, if someone limits themselves in those ways then they have limited themselves in those ways; but not all pro-am students work with only one teacher. Many of the more serious ones will go to another teacher with their partner-teacher.


Yes, that's what we do whenever we can.

[reb]

You are comparing apples to oranges (i.e a pro/am dancer vs. a "world class" professional or amateur dancer)

Most am partnerships in pro/am begin their dancing as adults. Some, although a minority, in their mid to late teens. Most of the ones that start before their teenage years end up finding an am partner before they are adults.
Sync - you're right on!

Bigbox - Your original post started with the quality of Pro/Am proposition and morphed into champions - this addresses the latter. And you're right about Nadia in that she thinks beyond many - and she's recongnized for that internationally

World-class competitors generally start at a young age

Pro/Am students generally start in the adult years (generally starting when their world-class, age-group-peers are peaking after a long 'career')

Pro/Ams students who start as youth and show promise would be guided into Amateur competition and from there 'could' find their way to world-class levels, but would have departed from Pro/Am to get there.

I have seen several instances of Pro/Am students who almost instantly (and quietly) became teachers/pros and went on to successful (not world-class, but successful) competitive dance careers.

[fascination]

A) I think it always wise for people to get collaboration on matters of importance...expecially when there is a lull in progress

B) word of warning to no one in particular...past thread of this nature have gotten disparaging and ugly as regards pro/am...and only modest levels of that are tolerable...thanks in advance

[elisedance]

Hi fasc,
I have read the whole thread and am pleased to report that I think things are improving: there seems to be a lot of respect for all the combinations with very few comments that could even be taken as superior let alone disparaging. maybe we are getting better?

By the way, just because someone starts older does not mean thay can not be just as good or better dancer, it just depends on how you define 'better'. Sure, they are unlikely to ever be as athletic or technically perfect but you may see a level of expression and interpretation that eludes the young dancer who has learned maybe too much technique or interpretation and suffered suppressino of their own expressive abilities. Much the same is seen in other arts too where a late entrant may have a unique and unspoiled artistic expression.

vive la difference should surely be the mantra of all arts....

[tangotime]

I .



I believe I heard that Corky Ballas started out int pro-am.

Corky was raised in the business. His dad George,was a Master Franchisee and owned studios .( among other things ) He also was the co inventor of the Weedeater

[rock24]

I have seen several instances of Pro/Am students who almost instantly (and quietly) became teachers/pros and went on to successful (not world-class, but successful) competitive dance careers.
Annette Nicole did Pro/Am as a junior and went on to dance with Andrew Phillips in Pro Latin - took 5th in Rising Star in Blackpool - and does the Dancing with the Stars tour.

David Oliveri did Pro/Am as a junior and adult with Diana McDonald - turned pro and competed with students and is now dancing in Le Reve at the Wynn Las Vegas.

[GJB]

True. But, they both started at a young age. David also had some amateur partnerhips as well as Pro Am.

[elisedance]

Does anyone know of pros who used pro/am open to get competition experience with their new (top amateur) potential pro partner? I believe there was one such at the Fall comp last year. When I visited the pro's home web site his partner was listed as 'coming soon, new instructor'

[fascination]

I think it happens...not always with deliberation..but it happens

[Larinda McRaven]

Does anyone know of pros who used pro/am open to get competition experience with their new (top amateur) potential pro partner? I believe there was one such at the Fall comp last year. When I visited the pro's home web site his partner was listed as 'coming soon, new instructor'

David Rosario had an adult student. She was a pro-am A finalist. She turned pro and they became open pro finalists.

[waltzgirl]

I may be wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere that Ben ERmis began as Shalene's student, but perhaps he was already a pro.

[syncopationator]

Does anyone know of pros who used pro/am open to get competition experience with their new (top amateur) potential pro partner? I believe there was one such at the Fall comp last year. When I visited the pro's home web site his partner was listed as 'coming soon, new instructor'

Krasi Petkov and Yana Blinova did something similar. They were am partners, he turned pro while she remained am, they did pro am latin for a year, tore apart the competition and turned pro earlier this year.

Amanda Reizyn (sp?) was Ilya's student and were latin pro/am finalists and turnred pro in Rhythm this year as well.

[elisedance]

Perhaps one should remember that such couples exist before being too quick to judge pro/am negatively!

[Larinda McRaven]

I may be wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere that Ben ERmis began as Shalene's student

No, this is incorrect. They were both pros when they met.

[SDsalsaguy]

Perhaps waltzgirl was thinking of Jim Maranto?

[Laura]

Catherine Blondell (who also did well in a previous amateur partnership) did Pro/Am with Giacomo Agrello, then turned Pro and competed with him for a bit.

[Larinda McRaven]

Perhaps waltzgirl was thinking of Jim Maranto?

Yes, Open Professional Champion, that once was a pro-am guy.

[SDsalsaguy]

Yes, Open Professional Champion, that once was a pro-am guy.
Exactly. Started as Jenell's student and went on to turn pro and win the National title with her.

[elisedance]

Exactly. Started as Jenell's student and went on to turn pro and win the National title with her.

Wow. Thats a great example. Anyone know how he started dancing? I mean, did he go from junoir Am to pro-am to pro or straight form pro-am to pro - that would seem to make him quite a late starter....

[SDsalsaguy]

Yes, he was a late starter. If I recall correctly he was already working as an accountant when he started ballroom, so definitely not someone who'd been a junior am first (as either am-am or pro-am).

[elisedance]

even more impressive - indeed that must be almost unique.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Yes, he was a late starter. If I recall correctly he was already working as an accountant when he started ballroom, so definitely not someone who'd been a junior am first (as either am-am or pro-am).
I work in a similar field. That gives me hope. I wonder if a whisk would be better analogized to a debit or to a credit.

[elisedance]

:)

Hey, at least you should be good at 1and2and3and. Of course it might be hard to stop there :p

[Terpsichorean Clod]

<lol> Meh, just for two minutes till the song ends.

[elisedance]

we should have a thread on career types and dancing (maybe there is one...). I suspect there would be some that come up disproportionally often

[SDsalsaguy]

we should have a thread on career types and dancing (maybe there is one...). I suspect there would be some that come up disproportionally often
Or, more to the point, I think what would show up disproportionately are certain career types of those who partner dance and frequent online forums! ;)

[elisedance]

yes, its something of a filter for sure - and you could add would be comfortable with revealing their occupation. OK, so its not much of a scientific assay but even with those limits it would be interesting. I had heard that quite a few scientists take up ballroom - but maybe that was regional where I lived in MD.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

The unemployed? Partner dancing and the frequentation of online forums don't leave much time for anything else.

[elisedance]

:):)
If you are unemployed will the government step in and cover dance lesson/shoe/gown/entry fee/etc essential costs?

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I accept your challenge! :cool:

[elisedance]

meaning you are quitting your job to find out :?:

[meow]

Don't ditch your job to find out - the government won't pick up your dancing tab.

[elisedance]

don't worry meow, there's a lot of irony soup on this thread!!

[etp777]

Everyone knows you can't quit to dance, you have to get work to let you go, THEN government will pay for your dancing for you. ;)

[fascination]

Yes, he was a late starter. If I recall correctly he was already working as an accountant when he started ballroom, so definitely not someone who'd been a junior am first (as either am-am or pro-am).
;) a dream is a wish your heart makes....so so so cool

[reb]

Yes, he was a late starter. If I recall correctly he was already working as an accountant when he started ballroom, so definitely not someone who'd been a junior am first (as either am-am or pro-am).

I work in a similar field. That gives me hope. I wonder if a whisk would be better analogized to a debit or to a credit.

Without mentioning their names to respect their privacy, but as another example . . . there is another successful couple:

She was working as a bookkeeper
She became a dance teacher
He was in another occupation and started as her student
Together they competed as a pro couple, winning a Rising Star title

[reb]

Everyone knows you can't quit to dance, you have to get work to let you go, THEN government will pay for your dancing for you. ;)

What's this "government will pay for your dancing" . . . those are my tax payments! ;)

as my returns are due shortly paying enormous sums . . .

[elisedance]

Er, well, thanks!

[SDsalsaguy]

Without mentioning their names to respect their privacy, but as another example . . .
Well done reb. I only used Jim Maranto as an example as he has publicly discussed this before. ;)

[Medira]

I work in a similar field. That gives me hope. I wonder if a whisk would be better analogized to a debit or to a credit.

I think it's a debited asset. ;)

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I think it's a debited asset. ;)
<lol> Perhaps for you. It's very much a liability for me. :headwall:

[Judi Hatton]

Hello All: I've been reading this string with interest and am quite surprised that no one has picked up on the comment that Corky Ballas was indeed a pro-am dancer. He began his competition career as a student in Houston,Texas with his teacher, Patrea Lockie, and was featured performing a pro-am routine with Patrea on a PBS show covering the USBC (as it was known then). The culmination of Corky's career as a competitior was winning the British Professional Latin Championships at Blackpool. Quite an achievement! He joins Nadia as another natural born American British Champion.

[fascination]

thank you Judi and welcome to DF

[latingal]

Welcome to DF Judi!

Thank you for confirming that Corky Ballas was indeed a pro-am dancer to begin his competitive career. I had remembered a comment that Corky began as a pro-am student and had gone full circle - to a championship pro, and then on to become a pro-am teacher.

[Laura]

Good to see you here Judi, and hope to see you post again soon. Thanks for giving us Corky's story!

[pruthe]

Judi,

Believe it or not, I recorded a PBS show with Corky and Patrea in early 80s on my Beta Sony recorder. It was 1982 U.S. Ballroom Grand Championships. Corky and Patrea were doing Samba on segment I recorded. Other well known names shown: Rufus Dustin, P. Dulaine/E. Marceau, Vernon Brock, R. Montez/L. Curtis, and others. I recently converted to DVD.

pruthe

Hello All: I've been reading this string with interest and am quite surprised that no one has picked up on the comment that Corky Balls was indeed a pro-am dancer. He began his competition career as a student in Houston,Texas with his teacher, Patrea Lockie, and was featured perforing a pro-am routine with Patrea on a PBS show covering the USBC (as it was known then). The culmination of Corky's career as a competitior was winning the British Professional Latin Championships at Blackpool. Quite and achievement! He joins Nadia as another natural born American British Champion.

[reb]

Judi,

Welcome to Dance Forums.

You're quoted in very positive ways throughout Dance Forums. Thanks for making a difference.

[etp777]

Good post Judi, didn't know that one myself (I'ms till a newcomer to this whole world). Thanks, and definitely welcome. As reb said, know I've seen your name here many times, always in a positive light. :)

[elisedance]

Hi Judi,

Nice to meet you. Its very interesting how Corky did pro/am but wondered how he started. I found a short bio on him at Dance Vision:

"Corky Ballas has been dancing literally since he was a baby, having been reared in a family with diverse talents as entertainers and entrepreneurs. His mother was a great and talented Flamenco dancer who together with Mr. Ballas owned and operated the largest dance studio in the United States (44,000 square feet under one roof).

Corky, with all his early talent training however, was as normal as apple pie when it came to the Disco era. This was the point in his life when he discovered that out of everything he had tried through the years, dancing was his greatest love."

So did he also learn ballroom through pro/am - that is went through the syllabus stages - or whether he was already trained through his strong dance connections.

DF is terrific in how it brings together the whole range of dancers from newcomers to accomplished pros like yourself. I hope you will stick around, I'm sure everyone here really appreciates the input.