View Full Version : fleckerl in viennese waltz
ballroomdancertoo
09-29-2007, 02:40 PM
Not sure of the spelling for the fleckrolls (?) in viennese waltz but in the foot work does the man keep turning with the ball or flat of the foot? Thanks in advance.
latingal
09-29-2007, 08:55 PM
I believe it's spelled "Fleckerl"?
elisedance
09-30-2007, 04:36 PM
I was at a comp over the weekend and in the IDSF championship event one couple (from Russia) danced spectacularly and came in 22226 (their sheer movement was better than the 1st place couple but they did not have the musicality or subtlety). The 6 was in VW and there was one noticable difference: they did not do a fleckerl. At the championship level is this tantamount to a scratch?
contracheck
09-30-2007, 09:18 PM
I believe it's spelled "Fleckerl"?
The correct spelling is "Fleckerel." It's a German and it means "Spot Turn."
Using the Reverse Turn as an example the foot goes as follow:
1L (front of the Right Foot): Flat
2R (Side): Ball
3L (front of the Right Foot): Flat
4R (Side): Flat
5L (behind the Right Foot): Ball
6R (Side): Flat
ballroomdancertoo
09-30-2007, 09:26 PM
Thanks contracheck. I think that was what I was doing but someone told me that the movement was done all on the toes. Is this the sanctioned steps for the VW?
Thanks in advance.
It is written "Fleckerl" and is austrian dialect for the german words "kleiner Fleck" meaning "smal spot". (According to the german Wikipedia Fleckerl is also a noodle dish from austria.)
contracheck
10-01-2007, 05:46 AM
It is written "Fleckerl" and is austrian dialect for the german words "kleiner Fleck" meaning "smal spot". (According to the german Wikipedia Fleckerl is also a noodle dish from austria.)
In actual life, there are usually more than one ways of skinning a cat. Fleckerel and Fleckerl are both used without prejudice. If in doubt, please Google it. USABDA uses "Fleckeryll."
elisedance
10-01-2007, 07:54 AM
Either way it sounds like a species of trout....
contracheck
10-01-2007, 09:51 AM
Either way it sounds like a species of trout....
Ahh, yummy. You mean Speckle Trout?
Al Gisnered
10-01-2007, 11:29 AM
I was at a comp over the weekend and in the IDSF championship event one couple (from Russia) danced spectacularly and came in 22226 (their sheer movement was better than the 1st place couple but they did not have the musicality or subtlety). The 6 was in VW and there was one noticable difference: they did not do a fleckerl. At the championship level is this tantamount to a scratch?
Not necessarily. Two thoughts:
1. The lack of Fleckerl might be noticed by a judge if that judge deemed 2 couples equal in all other respects. However, the Viennese, like each of the 5 standard dances, has its own identity. It is not only about speed and distance. If the couple in question excelled in "sheer movement" in VW but lacked "musicality or subtlety", it may have been most noticeable in VW and they may well have danced their VW less well than the other 5 competitors.
2. Even for the top contests, I've seen judges finish marking their sheets within 40 - 50 seconds of the start. (as an amusement, I've timed them) Given that, ordinarily, no more than two couples will take the center for Fleckerls at any one time, not all couples will dance them within the 40-50 second period. Not all judges wait till the end of the dance to mark, and I doubt they wait to see if every couple does Fleckerls. I believe that what they do look at is whether the couples who dance them dance them well enough to warrant higher placement than those who have, as yet, not Fleckerl-ed but who are dancing with whatever qualities the judge sets as the criteria for higher placement.
elisedance
10-01-2007, 12:17 PM
Interesting perspective - I agree about the rapid marking of most dances but I get the impression that the judges often wait just for this dance to to see how well the couples keep it up. Doing VW for 10 seconds is very different from doing it for 1.5 minutes! I think I may ask a judge or two about this...
latingal
10-01-2007, 12:37 PM
(According to the german Wikipedia Fleckerl is also a noodle dish from austria.)
*grin* a noodle dish?
By the way, welcome to DF sen3!!
I was at a comp over the weekend and in the IDSF championship event one couple (from Russia) danced spectacularly and came in 22226 (their sheer movement was better than the 1st place couple but they did not have the musicality or subtlety). The 6 was in VW and there was one noticable difference: they did not do a fleckerl. At the championship level is this tantamount to a scratch?
Yeah Elise, at NDCA Amateur Nationals at BYU a couple years ago, during the Open Amateur Standard event, Brian McDonald (I think it was Brian) announced that he expected to see fleckerls as an integral/mandatory at this level - no one was doing them.
After that we made sure to do them everytime . . .
star_gazer
10-01-2007, 01:47 PM
Yeah Elise, at NDCA Amateur Nationals at BYU a couple years ago, during the Open Amateur Standard event, Brian McDonald (I think it was Brian) announced that he expected to see fleckerls as an integral/mandatory at this level - no one was doing them.
After that we made sure to do them everytime . . . It was Brian. Then everyone..for better and worse..started doing fleckerls.
for better and worse
;) :D
tanya_the_dancer
10-11-2010, 08:13 PM
Any tips on these suckers? At the moment they feel like a disaster in making.
Any tips on these suckers? At the moment they feel like a disaster in making.
My partner and I have taken to practicing them during rounds when we don't want to get tired dancing 3 VWs in a row. So, they're good for that.
Warren J. Dew
10-11-2010, 10:04 PM
Any tips on these suckers? At the moment they feel like a disaster in making.
Lots of patience? Fleckerls are extemely difficult to do correctly; even some world champions don't manage the full 360 degrees of turn on each bar.
madmaximus
10-11-2010, 10:18 PM
Any tips on these suckers? At the moment they feel like a disaster in making.
Fleckerls are easy.
Is there something specific you're looking for?
What is it that makes it feel "iffy" for you?
m
Love this:
fleckerls are extemely difficult to do correctly...
fleckerls are easy.
:D
Love this:
:D
My take: Warren meant reverse, and MM was referring to natural. :P
Warren J. Dew
10-12-2010, 08:07 AM
My take: Warren meant reverse, and MM was referring to natural. :P
He said "fleckerls", I said 'correct fleckerls'.
tanya_the_dancer
10-12-2010, 08:34 AM
Fleckerls are easy.
Is there something specific you're looking for?
What is it that makes it feel "iffy" for you?
m
I keep stepping on the guy.
Warren J. Dew
10-12-2010, 08:39 AM
I keep stepping on the guy.
Usually that indicates an issue with the person being stepped on. Which step is it on?
tanya_the_dancer
10-12-2010, 08:55 AM
Usually that indicates an issue with the person being stepped on. Which step is it on?
When it's my turn to go forward (although the whole thing feels like <insert your favorite 4-letter word here>). And at the moment it's safe to assume that it's my fault, since I don't know what I'm doing with them.
tanya_the_dancer
10-12-2010, 02:43 PM
What I really need is to figure out how to efficiently practice them without a partner.
Warren J. Dew
10-12-2010, 03:19 PM
When it's my turn to go forward (although the whole thing feels like <insert your favorite 4-letter word here>). And at the moment it's safe to assume that it's my fault, since I don't know what I'm doing with them.
If this is on the natural - right turning - fleckerls, and it's not his fault, then either you're stepping out with the foot and leaving the body behind, or you're turning the foot out too much in anticipating of the turn. You need to step between his feet and he needs to give you space to do that.
If this is on the reverse - left turning - fleckerls, it's even more likely to be his fault. However, to the extent that it's yours, more contra body movement may help.
madmaximus
10-12-2010, 05:43 PM
He said "fleckerls", I said 'correct fleckerls'.
Hahaha! Talk about about splitting hairs.
Well, implicit in my statement was the notion of doing the Fleckerls CORRECTLY.
So I'll restate my opinion: Correct Fleckerls are easy. LOL
Most dancers find it difficult, and I say this with all due respect, because of a lack of understanding of the figure, absence of insightful technique, and IMPROPER practice.
It really is not a difficult figure.
m
madmaximus
10-12-2010, 05:45 PM
What I really need is to figure out how to efficiently practice them without a partner.
Just for DF, I uploaded an upcoming article extract on the subject.
(Here's the link in Articles: Fleckerls Made Easy: The Secret (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=37624))
If you have further questions, please post it on this thread.
m
tanya_the_dancer
10-12-2010, 07:42 PM
If this is on the natural - right turning - fleckerls, and it's not his fault, then either you're stepping out with the foot and leaving the body behind, or you're turning the foot out too much in anticipating of the turn. You need to step between his feet and he needs to give you space to do that.
If this is on the reverse - left turning - fleckerls, it's even more likely to be his fault. However, to the extent that it's yours, more contra body movement may help.
I'm not really in the mood to argue. I dance pro-am, my teacher knows how to do them (he's really good, and I saw him do them with his pro partner, who is also really good). But so far I am making a big mess out of this move. Even after I practiced my part by myself, I just can't do them when I have a person in front of me. I have to try max's trick of making those circles on the floor and practicing my part like that, maybe that will help.
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