Lead in Pro/Am

[Chiron]

I've been dancing for about a year now and I'm starting to get more serious about competing. At my last competition the men tended to place lower than the women, but this could be because there were a lot less of us. I was curious, is there any advantage/disadvantage to the pro being the lead in pro/am?

[waltzgirl]

I'm a follow, but I think leads do have a bit of a disadvantage for a couple reasons. (I'm assuming you mean in scholarships, because otherwise, men and women don't compete directly against one another in pro-am comps). Some of the reasons:

--as you say, fewer men in total, so it's more likely to find an outstanding woman among a lot of women than an outstanding man among a couple of men

-- women usually have the "showier" parts of most dances, so they probably tend to catch the judges' eyes more easily (not to mention the sparklier costumes!)

-- you're on the floor with a lot of male pros and, even though the judges aren't supposed to compare you with them, the contrast is still there

-- men who are serious about competing have an easier time finding an amateur partner and competing in that route, so that drains off probably some of the better male competitors.

[reb]

Welcome to Dance Forums Chiron!

[latingal]

Welcome to DF Chiron!

[waltzgirl]

Oh, yeah, I forgot!

Welcome to DF!

[rjcbear]

welcome to DF Chiron.

Once a Judge told me that if a female pro is leading you it is very obvious and in his score sheet you will not place good at all. This particular judge is a very respect one. I think you should start leading as much as possible.

[Chiron]

Thanks for all the welcomes. I'm leading and my pro does an amazing job of following my leads (as long as they're not really really bad :oops:). I was originally thinking that women might have an advantage because the pro was leading instead of the am. For instance I know all the male pros at my studio have much better floor craft than I do (no surprise there). Since it sounds like the women might have an intrinsic edge, is it best to use this knowledge to motivate my practicing? Or I guess I could start dancing in a sparkly dress to get more attention from the judges, just not sure where I'd pin my number ;).

[latingal]

Or I guess I could start dancing in a sparkly dress to get more attention from the judges, just not sure where I'd pin my number ;).

You'd definitely get some attention... *grin*

[reb]

Thanks for all the welcomes. I'm leading and my pro does an amazing job of following my leads (as long as they're not really really bad :oops:). I was originally thinking that women might have an advantage because the pro was leading instead of the am. For instance I know all the male pros at my studio have much better floor craft than I do (no surprise there). Since it sounds like the women might have an intrinsic edge, is it best to use this knowledge to motivate my practicing? Or I guess I could start dancing in a sparkly dress to get more attention from the judges, just not sure where I'd pin my number ;).
It all evens out in the end - just may be a little uneven at the early stages. Sounds like you have a good attitude, so it's probably not hard to keep in mind that this is a journey. Keep working at it and being inquisitive.

Don't know how open/competitive your studio is, but learning to lead in an Amateur partnership will make a huge difference. This has nothing to do with how good your teacher is, but everything to do with you.

[elisedance]

(I'm assuming you mean in scholarships, because otherwise, men and women don't compete directly against one another in pro-am comps).

Bit of a minor correction: men and women compete against each other in all multidance events - not just scholarship (which is usually taken to be the open catagory events). Since the multidance heats have both men and women, there are less divisions in skill levels (no intermediate levels between bronze and silver for example) and less age catagories, unlike the single dance events these can be quite competetive with seim-finals or more.

The multidance events are judged 'as a couple' and not 'as a competitor' so the clothing issues above are not really relevant. Indeed, it may be in favor of the pro woman who will likely have a much more showy gown etc so that is not a factor. As stressed above it is much more difficult for an Am lead to get the couple looking good than an AM follow. Thus I also get the impression that men do worse at these than the women - their flaws are much more likely to show. ON the other hand, there are a lot more women so if the odds of being good are even, there may just be more good women.

I've also noticed, however, that if a man competes in pro/am and he is good - then he cleans up. Thus, there may be a threshold thing - the judges are aware of the challenge to the lead so when they see something promising they may give him some advantage (as far as I am concerned, rightly so).

[Larinda McRaven]

Thus I also get the impression that men do worse at these than the women - their flaws are much more likely to show.

...

ON the other hand, there are a lot more women so if the odds of being good are even, there may just be more good women.


I don't really agree that it is harder for men, or that their flaws show more. One could argue in the other direction as well. The men need to only provide the frame and the women have all the showy stuff to do. So to get an am male to simply frame me is easier that for an am female to fulfill all of the showy elements. When I dance it is far easier for me to fill up the frame and be big than an woman who is on par with my student. So which couple will look better? To me it is a toss up...

I think it HONESTLY comes down to your second statement. The ratio of men to women at a competition is so skewed that the results cannot help but to reflect that.

[fascination]

I agree....L....and it is also my experience that many pro ladies do not wear their most notable dresses when they are dancing pro/am

[atk]

My teacher has mentioned that she thinks it's harder for the men, but I don't remember her reasoning.

[syncopationator]

[quote=waltzgirl;474357]-- you're on the floor with a lot of male pros and, even though the judges aren't supposed to compare you with them, the contrast is still there
quote]

This is my motivation everytime I get on the floor.

I don't try to beat the ladies. My goal is to outdance their pros.

My first pro once told me that in order for a man to win a scholarship, he must dance 3 times better than the ladies.

[etp777]

heh, I do same thing syncopationer, but I get yelled at for it. :)

[reb]

I don't try to beat the ladies. My goal is to outdance their pros.

;)
An accomplished competitor and friend, whose opinion I respect, recently said to me that poise in the Pro/Am male is a discriminator.

You can see through confidence, cockiness, etc., but posie has a certain quality about it . . .

[elisedance]

;)You can see through confidence, cockiness, etc., but posie has a certain quality about it . . .

I'll say.....:p:p:p

[Terpsichorean Clod]

but posie has a certain quality about it . . .
I don't know. That isn't a very masculine scent, is it? ;)

[syncopationator]

;)
An accomplished competitor and friend, whose opinion I respect, recently said to me that poise in the Pro/Am male is a discriminator.

You can see through confidence, cockiness, etc., but posie has a certain quality about it . . .

:notworth:

[syncopationator]

and assuming all pros danced with poise, which is not always true, then I would have to outpoise them ;)

Brilliant!