Shirt is making arm shape look bad.

[SwingWaltz]

I am not sure with your american grading system, but I am in Level 1 here in Australia and we have a dress code of street wear. I was told the best you could do with that is a shirt and a black vest. The problem is that crests in the sleeves of the shirt make my arm shape look kind of awful. You can't tell if my back was straight, arms in up position in them. They aren't too baggy either, they are just the right size for me. If I go a size smaller I'd choke myself on the collar.

I believe that this has in a certain but not dominating degree affected my results at competitions. Could anyone suggest some way I can make improvements on that?

Thanks guys!

[Joe]

Crests?

[rjcbear]

I am with Joe.

Maybe you need to invest in one of those stretchy shirts.

[SDsalsaguy]

Maybe you need to invest in one of those stretchy shirts.
According to the OP, it specifies that street wear is all that is allowed under the dress codes for Level 1 in Australia, so I don't really think that's the answer.

[croaker]

Crests?
methinks he meant a crease.

[rjcbear]

According to the OP, it specifies that street wear is all that is allowed under the dress codes for Level 1 in Australia, so I don't really think that's the answer.

:mad:

[reb]

You can't tell if my back was straight
arms in up position in them

I believe that this has in a certain but not dominating degree affected my results at competitions. Could anyone suggest some way I can make improvements on that?

Thanks guys!
Hi Swing W
If your frame is affecting your results, its because your frame is affecting your results.;)

If your frame is perfect, a shirt would not cover it up any more that a jacket on top of the shirt . . .

As you advance, you'll be able to spot good/bad frames from across the room.

Everyone has questions - just keep asking.

[meow]

Hi SwingW - ditch the vest. Wear a nice shirt and tie (ballroom) and take off the tie for Latin. Change to a black shirt for Latin also. Then work on your frame. That's my best advice.

[reb]

Good to see you here meow!

[meow]

Thanks reb. I have been around though but only post if I feel I can add something.

[waltzgirl]

If you feel like the shirt is bunching or folding in a way that makes your frame look worse, try looking for shirts in different fabrics. A shirt with some polyester content will drape on your body more than an all-cotton shirt. I have a couple of cotton blouses that bunch up at the shoulder when I raise my arms and make it look like my shoulders are higher than they are, so I don't wear them dancing anymore.

[mummsie]

Hi Swing Waltz - I am from Oz as well. I am level 4 so have been going to comps for a lot of years. If your frame is bad it doesn't matter what sort of shirt you have on unless its way too big it will still look bad. White shirts sometimes look really baggy so I would maybe go for a shirt that matches whatever dress your partner is wearing. Mummsie in Brisbane

[reb]

Gotta love our Australian presence!

[madmaximus]

I am not sure with your american grading system, but I am in Level 1 here in Australia and we have a dress code of street wear. I was told the best you could do with that is a shirt and a black vest. The problem is that crests in the sleeves of the shirt make my arm shape look kind of awful. You can't tell if my back was straight, arms in up position in them. They aren't too baggy either, they are just the right size for me. If I go a size smaller I'd choke myself on the collar.

I believe that this has in a certain but not dominating degree affected my results at competitions. Could anyone suggest some way I can make improvements on that?

Thanks guys!

Consider getting a shirt tailor-made.
But get it measured with your arms in the appropriate frame position--and insist that the cut of the shirt follow that line.

Unless they understand dancing, most tailors are proud to create a nice "fall" of the sleeves and are generally reluctant to put together a shirt/coat/vest that violates some of their design sensibilities.
I know mine does.

So, tell them it is a customized COSTUME piece of equipment, and not an exercise in haute couture.

For business shirts, pay attention to the collar and the yoke--as these are usually cut for the average bad posture and will bunch/crest/curdle/wrinkle if worn by a well-poised dancer.

If tailoring is not an option, perhaps an "athletic" fit might do--and have it modified to fit.

m2cw



m

[Josh]

Consider getting a shirt tailor-made.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto!

I abhor that I live in a society where all body types can be categorized as either S, M, L, or XL (or XXL, etc). It's ridiculous. What ever happened to clothes actually fitting the human body??!! I have every single non-t-shirt that I buy tailored so that my body actually looks like something other than a blob. I like my body, and I want people to see my actual shape, not some mysterious inhuman "bag" shape where they could wonder if I'm 180 lbs or 500!! It's worth the money, get some clothes made or at least tailored that fit you. Hint: if you are lean and a nice build, your tailor will have to take in the sides, the length probably, as well as put darts in the back. After this, it'll look gooooood.. ;-)

Sorry, had to vent. I just despise how modern efficiency has brought with it cookie-cutter-ism, and McClothes syndrome, which seems to affect 95% of the population.

[etp777]

Heh, won't hear any arguments from me. I won't and can't (unless I want to shorten sleeves, or at least bring them in smaller) buy anything that's s/m/l unless it's short sleeved, problem wiht being 5'5". Actually, can't buy much of anything off the rack. Suits off the rack need to be brought in 5-6" at waist (look at back of pair of your pants, and imagine them brought in 2.5" on each side of back seam).

At a minimum, as suggested, look at a slim fit/modern fit/fitted shirt, these should have smaller sleeves too. If it was just an issue of bagginess around waste, could also add Tapered fit, but those don't always have the tighter sleeve. Some brands will also have 4-10% spandex (or another artificial fiber) in slim fit shirts to add just a bit of stretch. This lets them cut the shirts a touch tighter, and will show your lines better, without going with an actual dance shirt.

[SwingWaltz]

If your frame is perfect, a shirt would not cover it up any more that a jacket on top of the shirt . . .

Thanks for that input. Not to disagree with you but if you smooth out the fabric that's bundled at my back, my posture didn't look too bad. All the fabric disguised the shape of my back line. But definitely actual posture is more important.

ditch the vest. Wear a nice shirt and tie

Yea, that could work. I'll try that. I do realize that the past 2 level 1 champions didn't wear any vest. The vest actually bundles up a bit behind my back too when i pull my shoulder blade together.

I am kind of hard to buy a shirt for. I am really slim, about 175cm but my body is really slim, so is my arm. I need to buy a small/medium sized shirt to fit my body length but probably a smaller size to fit my arm. Might look into a tailored shirt. The idea of a tailored business shirt amuses me. :D

Thanks for the input guys.

[cornutt]

In a pinch, try laundering the shirt without any starch, dry it, and then steam it instead of ironing. That way, the creases will have a less prominent shape, and the sleeves will be more "round".

[etp777]

We're supposed to washt hem? ;)

[and123]

:rolleyes:
Wanna hear gross? When my former partner was putting on his shirt for a comp, still pinned to it was his number from a comp that occurred many months before. YUCK!!!!!!!!

[etp777]

Yeah, i could do without that. :) Vest and pants may not get washed, depending on how much I danced, etc, but shirt gets washed immediately when I get home. Actually, pretty sure I did same with pants last time too, so it's only vest that wasn't washed.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

:rolleyes:
Wanna hear gross? When my former partner was putting on his shirt for a comp, still pinned to it was his number from a comp that occurred many months before. YUCK!!!!!!!!
Hence, former partner?

[and123]

Definitely part of the equation, yes....:rolleyes:

[rjcbear]

We're supposed to washt hem? ;)

Thank you for the heads up. I knew I can count on you....

<=== Running to the closet and check the shirts... :eek:

[meow]

Wearing a nice shirt and tie (ballroom) will look good. If your frame doesn't look good it isn't due to the shirt, it is due to the frame not being right. Keep away from vests - they tend to make one look bulkier. In Level 1 it can be difficult - calling it 'street wear' - I have seen some strange things on the floor. But, if you keep it simple and elegant (and clean!!!) you will be fine. And in Latin, stick to black.

[mxmx]

Hi Swing W
If your frame is affecting your results, its because your frame is affecting your results.;)

If your frame is perfect, a shirt would not cover it up any more that a jacket on top of the shirt . . .

As you advance, you'll be able to spot good/bad frames from across the room.

Everyone has questions - just keep asking.

I'm laughing at all the "experts" on here who are smirking and commenting on how the shirt won't impact the appearance of the frame. Maybe if you took a look at the original poster, you would be able to make comments like that with certainty.

[waltzgirl]

I think the point is that, in reality, clothing, if it fits in a normal way, can only have a minimal impact on the appearance of anyone's frame. If someone, for example, had a very straight, toned back, a baggy shirt might not show it off to the best advantage, but any experienced dancer would be able to see from the general carriage and quality of movement that the frame was good.

Since the OP has not come back to expalin what he meant by "crests" in the shirt, it's hard to give him specific advice on how to use the small difference clothing makes to his advantage, but I think that the general advice of working on the substance of your dancing and not blaming your costume for your marks is good advice.

[mxmx]

I think the point is that, in reality, clothing, if it fits in a normal way, can only have a minimal impact on the appearance of anyone's frame. If someone, for example, had a very straight, toned back, a baggy shirt might not show it off to the best advantage, but any experienced dancer would be able to see from the general carriage and quality of movement that the frame was good.

Since the OP has not come back to expalin what he meant by "crests" in the shirt, it's hard to give him specific advice on how to use the small difference clothing makes to his advantage, but I think that the general advice of working on the substance of your dancing and not blaming your costume for your marks is good advice.

I agree with what you wrote and wish we could see more feedback like this on DF instead of the sometimes smug responses that less frequent visitors seem to receive.

All of the in-grouping and cutesy comments like "meh, DH, DW, grin, FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, when I dance with 'pro', rolls eyes, not worthy" etc. that I see on here gets really old.

[reb]

I'm laughing at all the "experts" on here who are smirking and commenting on how the shirt won't impact the appearance of the frame. Maybe if you took a look at the original poster, you would be able to make comments like that with certainty.
Hi mxmx,

Very good idea to ask for a picture. That would be helpful on this topic, and some other topics too.

I assume you've found DF helpful as you sought advice on syllabus questions, dance belts, etc. All good questions which I imagine I might have asked once. Your politeness was helpful then.

I recommend that you not fall into the cynical trap of reading motive where there is none (other than one dancer trying to help another), in this case 'smirks'. If you knew me - and that's not hard to do - you'd know that couldn't be the case. Pretty public figure here.

You may not agree that advanced dancers can ascertain frame . . . but that is a legit difference of opinion.

[mxmx]

I recommend that you not fall into the cynical trap of reading motive where there is none (other than one dancer trying to help another), in this case 'smirks'. If you knew me - and that's not hard to do - you'd know that couldn't be the case. Pretty public figure here.

You may not agree that advanced dancers can ascertain frame . . . but that is a legit difference of opinion.

I don't think being a public figure precludes smirking. I am not disagreeing that advanced dancers can ascertain frame. I am commenting on the language used that disregards the possibility that what the poster was writing was accurate.

[reb]

Get over the smirking thing. There is no smirking in there.

[waltzgirl]

All of the in-grouping and cutesy comments like "meh, DH, DW, grin, FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, when I dance with 'pro', rolls eyes, not worthy" etc. that I see on here gets really old.


"Meh" and "pro" are the only things that seem to me to be specific to DF--the first picked up, as happens in any community, from one of our most visible members, and the latter a useful shortcut for someone referred to frequently. The others are abbreviations and smilies I've seen on many other sites.

DF serves many purposes. It is a community for those who participate regularly and, like any community, gains a shared history that may not seem important or accessible to those who don't participate regularly. But it is also a place where someone can drop in occasionally or just once for specific information--we even do our best for those who want to know about grinding!

If certain things annoy you, it helps to be selective about what threads you read. Personally, I usually skip the "what I'm eating, wearing, word games, etc." threads, unless I have a lot of time on my hands. But you never know--I did buy the ingredients to make Peaches' Mahogany Chicken this week!

[croaker]

I don't think being a public figure precludes smirking. I am not disagreeing that advanced dancers can ascertain frame. I am commenting on the language used that disregards the possibility that what the poster was writing was accurate.
Having been a beginner dancer myself in not-so-distant past I would say it's highly likely that a beginner who gets marked down by the judges for a crease in the shirt is much more likely being marked down for an actual problem with his frame, not the shirt.
A tailor-made shirt can no doubt help to make you look better.

[Josh]

I agree with what you wrote and wish we could see more feedback like this on DF instead of the sometimes smug responses that less frequent visitors seem to receive.

All of the in-grouping and cutesy comments like "meh, DH, DW, grin, FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, when I dance with 'pro', rolls eyes, not worthy" etc. that I see on here gets really old.

mxmx, the way to help the community, contribute to it, and be part of it is not to attack it, especially long-time members. Your attitude seems very callous (you mention "in-grouping" -- if you don't want to be part of the group, then don't be, but if you do want to be here, that attitude won't help). I don't see what relevance your issue with expressions like "meh, DH, DW, etc." have in the context of this discussion. If you have an issue with someone, or with something, please ask one of the moderators and one will be glad to help you. But the only negativity on this thread has been your post--please don't take it down that path.

[croaker]

All of the in-grouping and cutesy comments like "meh, DH, DW, grin, FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, when I dance with 'pro', rolls eyes, not worthy" etc. that I see on here gets really old.
The in-grouping is not unique to DF.
This is natural for any established group to band together to protect itself against newcomer's opinions that challenge the status quo authority. Just see how I'm being
labeled "hostile" for being disagreeable :)

[Josh]

The in-grouping is not unique to DF.
This is natural for any established group to band together to protect itself against newcomer's opinions that challenge the status quo authority. Just see how I'm being
labeled "hostile" for being disagreeable :)

All newcomers' opinions are welcome croaker. But regardless of the view of someone new, anyone who comes into a group of people who have been getting along relatively peacefully for years despite differences in opinion and has an argumentative attitude will not be welcomed. This is just human nature. It has nothing to do with status quo authority. It's just protection against negativity, a desire to keep topics on track, and wanting to keep things at a cool level. There is a difference between having differences of opinion and talking about them, and taking a rude tone about it (sarcasm comes to mind, and yes, I have been known to use it too).

[meow]

You know, I haven't been around very long - a few months. I was made most welcome, I asked some very dumb questions and received answers where I wasn't made to feel foolish. Took me a while to get used to the DH, DW, IMO's but they are only abbreviations. I use the smilies and when things like butt - kick, wink, roll-eyes are used, it usually is in reference to themselves as the poster, certainly not anything derogatory to the recipient. I have read some debates; sometimes they have been quite fierce, but never mean or nasty. As for 'smirking'? Certainly haven't come across it - I might have smirked at myself for trying to be clever but hey, unless my house has a video bug, who would know? Anyway, I deliberately haven't used abbreviations or smilies in this post. So far, that has been my experience with DF. Just for the record.

[croaker]

Meh is definitely not specific to DF. I've seen it on slashdot and other sites ages ago.

[fascination]

The in-grouping is not unique to DF.
This is natural for any established group to band together to protect itself against newcomer's opinions that challenge the status quo authority. Just see how I'm being
labeled "hostile" for being disagreeable :)
plenty of disagreement goes on here without the smart aleck tone that you tend to bring...disagreement is fine but imagining a mighty power structure against which to nobly fight on this forum is just silly and uh not going to go un-checked...we go out of our way to welcome newcomers, whatever their opinion...

[fascination]

as for abbreviations, all of us were new here at one time and had to figure them out...that some folks who spend a considerable amnt of time on here seem close has no intent to exclude others....and we all find certain things annoying...we just don't all think it serves a useful purpose to announce it on the boards unless forced to do so...just a matter of civility and courtesy...and now, BOT...back on topic

[croaker]

plenty of disagreement goes on here without the smart aleck tone that you tend to bring...disagreement is fine but imagining a mighty power structure against which to nobly fight on this forum is just silly and uh not going to go un-checked...we go out of our way to welcome newcomers, whatever their opinion...
Now, where did I say anything about a "mighty power structure" ?! ;)
Please don't put words in my mouth. Notice that Josh said almost exactly the same thing as I did except his is an insider prospective and so somewhat more warm and cosy. Which is natural too.

[SwingWaltz]

Request for thread to be closed!

Due to the number of disagreements and stuff that really side tracks the original intention of the topic, I think it is best.

Thank you for all your inputs.

[etp777]

Very mature and appreciated suggestion swingwaltz. :)

I will second comment about steaming shirts rather than ironing though before it's closed, esp fitted shirts. I started only buying fitted/slim fit/modern fit/wahtever shirts earlier this year, and I noticed, that esp with some labels, their fitted shirts can be a lot harder to lay out flat for ironing than their regular shirts. Do to the extra curves of the tapering, being drawn in at sides, darts, etc, can be noticably more cahllenging to iron without missing spots, or leaving a crease somewhere you don't notcie until you get to work, comp wahtever. Have one label whose slim fit shirts are pretty easy to iron, was wearing one yesterday, got it ironed and ready no problem. Put on "fitted" shirt from another brand today, almost exact same fit, but for whatever reason, with cuts they use to achieve the fit, it's noticably harder to iron.

[reb]

SwingWaltz,

You really know how to get a thread started!

And just by asking a good question!!









:D

[samina]

I don't think being a public figure precludes smirking.

gotta say, i can't even imagine reb smirking...

mxmx, you just got started contributing here... i hope you will contribute more and along the way better get to know the individuals in this community. it is a classy bunch... very few snide ones, in my experience.

[fascination]

thread closed at OP request