top US cities for salsa?

[bailarina]

What do people think are the top US cities for salsa?

.. in no particular order:

NYC
LA
DC

what else do people think?

[quixotedlm]

on2 > on1

hee!

[salsamarty]

SF
LA
Chicago

[bailarina]

No on-1-on-2 debates! ;)

And I"m looking for a top ten list....

what about smaller but equally good scenes?

Atlanta? others?

[Vin]

I have been tempted to start a ranking thread. Basically we would rank our favorite scenes and then at the end we could try to make a comprehensive list.

Scenes I know decently well DC > Puerto Rico

Scenes I know from visiting every once in a while NY > Atl > Cleveland.

Based on what I know about the scenes I have seen I would rank in this order

NY > DC > PR > ATL > Cleveland.

I don't know the LA scene very well but I would be tempted to say from what I have heard that it is as good or better than the NY scene. Based on the LA congress alone I would rank it up there with New York, but congresses can be misleading.

This can be difficult though and it varies on who you are and what you are looking for. Example: PR has the best live music and most varied music options any night of the week. On the other hand I have found that dancers are less willing to dance with people they don't know in PR.

In DC on the other hand most ladies will always give someone a chance but the live music scene and options are nonexistent.

My criteria is based heavily on the percentage of good dances I will have on any given evening. DC is obviously going to be skewed because I know many people in the DC scene whereas Atl and Cle are skewed down because I know less people in those scenes.

[Big10]

I've danced Salsa in only 6 of the following 11 places, so part of this opinion is based on personal experience, and part is based on reputation/second-hand info:

LA = NY > PR > Houston > DC = Chicago > Miami > SF > Atlanta = Philly = Dallas

A couple of years ago, I probably would have lumped Houston as fairly equal to DC and Chicago, but I think Houston got a big boost when some of the folks from New Orleans moved here after Hurricane Katrina (like Troy & Jorjet).

[tangotime]

How could anyone emit Tampa, Orlando and Miami-- combined , probably have the most diverse latino population in existence-- the styles of music and dance, are un matched ( and yes, I have taught and danced in all the aforementioned plus some )

Of course-- we all know this is very subjective ,and only opinions .

And remember-- I am a world authority on my own opinion . :rolleyes:

[Vin]

We are only going by what we know personally. If you have danced in Tampa, Miami, or other parts of south florida then please include them in the list.

Big10, Since we have a disagreement on PR and DC, I am curious what about PR you liked more than DC. Or did you simply just have more good dances in PR than DC. If so, please tell me where to go in PR because I have yet to find salsa nirvana in PR.

[tangotime]

. If so, please tell me where to go in PR because I have yet to find salsa nirvana in PR.

You just burst my bubble !! ( not in the Mecca ? )

[dcnewbee]

go DC!

i go up to baltimore sometimes, and i can tell theres a big difference between the baltimore and dc scene. its weird w/ baltimore only being 1 hour away.

[tj]

Seattle has a pretty big scene. Probably more social dancers than DC, and about equivalent to Atlanta in terms of size.

Hawaii (Oahu)'s scene is pretty small. Same with Portland. You can still get quality dances/music/floor, however. Denver's scene is bigger than those two, but it's still a relatively small scene. Roughly equivalent to Baltimore.

I went searching for salsa in Vegas (once). I think I picked an off night/wrong club. But that was several years ago. Same goes for searching in Tampa.

Can we include Canada as well? I like the scenes in Montreal and Vancouver a lot.

Regarding PR - if I were to live there, my dancing would have to undergo a major overhaul, since I had a tough time dancing with the locals when I visited vin last week. Still, the music is world class! And wow, there were quite a few beautiful women around. Even moreso than what I'll normally notice.

[mayanempire]

Nothing tops NYC for me.
Boston, DC, and Chicago would follow. South Florida has really grown on me over the past two years (there are sooo many great dancers in the state of Florida, period--and they travel all over the state).

Smaller scenes: Raleigh/Durham, Atlanta

Other places I've visited (LA, PR, Toronto, etc.) are difficult for me to comment on, because I have only visited around congress time, and didn't really get a genuine, undiluted taste of the local scene.

[GayleR]

I enjoyed L.A. alot this past September. Vegas was fun, but not great in terms of available venues or levels of dancers, SF was a bust for me because of what I perceived to be limited choice (most likely due to my time restrictions).

I enjoy Montreal but Toronto has a large scene and you can dance every night of the week in a wide variety of venues including clubs, socials, parties and workshops. Plus for you US folks, we're only an hour's drive from Buffalo. Or a 1 hour flight from NYC. Come on up.

[tangotime]

, and about equivalent to Atlanta in terms of size.




I think youre a tad off-- the metro area of atlanta pop., is close to 4 million !!-- It has a latino pop. approaching half a mil.

[Vin]

I am curious how the international cities match up as well. If anyone can compare in any way . . . London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Cali, Buenos Aires, Cairo, Sydney, Singapore, any others . . . c'mon step up to the plate

[Vin]

I think youre a tad off-- the metro area of atlanta pop., is close to 4 million !!-- It has a latino pop. approaching half a mil.

A large Latino population does not necessarily equal a large social dance scene. Hasn't this conversation been had enough to understand that?

[mayanempire]

I think youre a tad off-- the metro area of atlanta pop., is close to 4 million !!-- It has a latino pop. approaching half a mil.

We recently surpassed the 5 million mark, actually. :) Our scene SHOULD be much larger than it actually is, but I suppose we are growing-- slowly, but surely.

[Big10]

Big10, Since we have a disagreement on PR and DC, I am curious what about PR you liked more than DC. Or did you simply just have more good dances in PR than DC. If so, please tell me where to go in PR because I have yet to find salsa nirvana in PR.
PR is one of the places that I have not been, so I ranked it based on reputation and second-hand information. I have known a few dancers here in Houston who were born in Puerto Rico and travel back occasionally, so maybe their stories to me are based on access to a "nirvana" that was not revealed to outsiders like you. ;) My ranking of DC is based on reputation as well as attending the 2007 DC Salsa Congress, where I got a chance to speak with several of the locals about the Salsa scene. (I traveled with a friend to the Congress, and we stayed in the apartment of a woman who was on one of the DC-area dance teams.) My impression is that DC probably has a higher ratio of "trained" dancers within the Salsa community in comparison to PR, but that PR's "street" dancers are at least competent and have a higher amount of flavor. The great live Salsa music available in Puerto Rico is what tipped the balance strongly in favor of PR over DC and most other cities. Hopefully that answers your question.

I forgot to rank Boston, and I'd probably lump it in with Atlanta/Philly/Dallas.

By the way, I don't think we've clarified what bases we're using in this thread to rank cities. My highly subjective opinions are based on (in no particular order) number/quality of dance venues, number/quality of live bands, number/quality of "trained" dancers, prominent personalities to drive the scene, and general friendliness to outsiders.

[Big10]

I am curious how the international cities match up as well. If anyone can compare in any way . . . London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Cali, Buenos Aires, Cairo, Sydney, Singapore, any others . . . c'mon step up to the plate
The title of this thread is pretty specific.....so that should probably be the topic of a different thread, right?

[tj]

When I was mentioning size, I'm talking about my own perception in regards to numbers of dancers in the scene.

Just curious, tt - when (what years?) and how long were you out here dancing/working in Atlanta? What clubs did you used to go to? I'm perfectly willing to admit that I may be missing out on the "pure street" side of Atlanta's salsa scene, but when I've tried some of those type clubs, it's not been all that happening. Would love to get your recommendations on specific places and specific nights to go.

And Maya has it right, per wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta) (standard disclaimers apply), the population of Atlanta is supposedly about 5.5 million as of last year. And Seattle is only 3.3 million. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle) I think it's a credit to Maya (and the others like her) that the salsa scene in Atlanta is doing as well as it is. I will say that Atlanta is still perceived by the general public as a hip hop city. And those clubs are packed, and draw the most people.

So to be more specific, there will be more dancers on any given Thursday/Saturday at the Century in Seattle (at least 3-4 years ago) than at the largest Saturday socials in Atlanta (usually Jimmy Rumba's social seems to get the most people). Nothing wrong with that, just my observation. It's possible that it's because the scene is still being split here in Atlanta, as the socials don't draw in many casino dancers, especially when you compare to how huge Julian's rueda school is.

In regards to vin's question (sorry, bailarina!): I really liked going dancing in Hong Kong. London is great, too! Barcelona and Madrid are good as well. It seemed like London had the most dancers of those 4 cities.

I went on a "Salsa Land Cruise" in Cancun, Mexico. Lots of salsa at the resort, not so much anywhere else in the rest of the touristy areas that I went to.

I think I went to the wrong place/wrong night when I went out dancing in Prague. The music was nice, but there were only about a half dozen of us at that place.

I've been trying to keep away from the ranking system, and only saying my perceived # of dancers in those cities. (...and for obvious reasons, I was leaving out NY & LA because they're the biggest)

[tj]

The title of this thread is pretty specific.....so that should probably be the topic of a different thread, right?
If bailarina complains, I can split it. :wink:

[tangotime]

A large Latino population does not necessarily equal a large social dance scene. Hasn't this conversation been had enough to understand that?


That was not the point-- was showing a comparative analysis in pop.against a declaritive statement .---- do you understand that ??

And have taught in enough major cities to be more than aware, the lack of support and or knowledge, of the latino pop. in general ,about much of the indigenous music, and dance ,from which the genre hails .

[bailarina]

This is all good stuff... and i'm not a micromanager, so say what you like:

The reason I ask is that I am probably going to be job hunting/interviewing and it's not the best question during the interview "how's the salsa scene here".

10 is a completely arbitrary number.....

and "top" is completely subjective. But I figured if it's good it's good and someone will give a shout out about it.

There are probably a lot of smaller cities that are good dance scenes but people just don't know about it.

[tangotime]

The reason I ask is that I am probably going to be job hunting/interviewing and it's not the best question during the interview "how's the salsa scene here".


. ----- Yes it is :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Vin]

I am in the same boat in that I am looking for new jobs. When I moved to PR I did so with the thought "It's PR, it has to have a great salsa scene" Unfortunately I have found that I don't mesh well with the scene here. If I did mesh well with the scene here I would probably never leave.

I strongly suggest that before you take any position you go visit and go out dancing once or twice because it is not just about how great the salsa scene is but also whether you can mesh well with it.

Some scenes may be great but do to some circumstances outside your control may not be a right fit for you.

[bailarina]

I am in the same boat in that I am looking for new jobs. When I moved to PR I did so with the thought "It's PR, it has to have a great salsa scene" Unfortunately I have found that I don't mesh well with the scene here. If I did mesh well with the scene here I would probably never leave.

I strongly suggest that before you take any position you go visit and go out dancing once or twice because it is not just about how great the salsa scene is but also whether you can mesh well with it.

Some scenes may be great but do to some circumstances outside your control may not be a right fit for you.

great point. And from that perspective 'friendly to newcomers' is definitely an influencing factor. And/or one in which many people are transient & traveling through.

[Vin]

Friendly to newcomers can be a misleading criteria. It depends on your dance habits. If you are going out dancing 2-3 nights a week then eventually the scene will warm up to you. In my case I live far enough away from the scene where going dancing every week is just a little too much travel.

Basically what I am saying, if the scene is otherwise good and you are close enough to go out enough to become a regular than eventually it will be a friendly scene for you.

If you are going to have to drive far for the scene than friendliness of the scene is much more important.

For example, NYC is a scene that I have found to be very friendly every time I go. Sure there are women that say no when I ask them to dance but enough say yes and are open to newcomers that a trip is always worthwhile.

[tj]

You both need to pick somewhere good so that I can come visit! :raisebro:

[delamusica]

If you are going to have to drive far for the scene than friendliness of the scene is much more important.

I go salsa dancing maybe once a month, maybe twice, sometimes none, and I have always had a great time and no shortage of dances in Denver, CO and Columbus, OH.

These are the only two places I've salsa-ed, so I don't have a lot of perspective. But while neither scene is particularly large, both have been extremely welcoming.

[salsera_alemana]

Interesting thread!

Well, I guess the ranking criteria of each and everyone of us are very subjective, as are mine. I rank the salsa scene by the quality of the music, the ambiente and by opportunities of great live concerts (= great music, falls basically into the same category). When my husband and I like the music, we have a great time and dance a lot. So for me it is more important that HE likes the music = he dances a lot! We have the same music taste so when he likes it, I definitely like it. We both love Puerto Rican salsa and reggeatón makes us sick.

When in addition the ambiente is (very) "Latino" and there are good dancers around us, we enjoy it even more.

My ranking is:
1. Puerto Rico
2. Orlando, FL, great!
3. Miami (only limited experience)

In PR and Orlando (and I bet also in Tampa) one can see so many of the best salsa live concerts, it is just outstanding! This year (in Orlando and Jacksonville alone) we saw Tito Nieves, The Big 3 Palladium Orchestra, the Tommy Olivencia Orchestra (La Primerisima) with 7 of his former singers, e.g. Hector Tricoche and Lalo Rogdriguez; Tony Vega, Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz, Ray de la Paz, Rafael de Jesús, Tribute to Hector Lavoe, next Friday hopefully Ray de la Paz again (I love him!) and next Saturday Tito Rojas, Lefty Perez, David Pabón and Paquito Acosta, in November Grupo Niche, NG2, La Sonora Ponceña and so the list goes on....
Also the ambiente is very Puertorrican in Orlando, you feel like being in Puerto Rico, 98% of the scene are Latinos, hardly any "gringos" like me.

In PR one sees better, more sophisticated dancers with more sabor!

Unfortunately, I do not know the Tampa scene yet but when seeing all the many clubs listed on the Internet, I get itchy and want to check it out badly! Any tips, tangotime? We will spend one night in Tampa probably on Wednesday, 23 Nov. (before Thanksgiving) and would like to check it out.

Here in the US I have been to NYC (that was over 10 years ago and I went out only twice), DC (last year, to 2 live concerts: El Gran Combo and I Love Salsa) and had a good time but I cannot rate those places based on my very limited experience.
I have also been to the Mayan in LA but apparently the "wrong" night for salsa, did not enjoy it and did neither see any good dancers nor have any good dances, disappointing. Have been to Houston, Dallas and New Orleans in 1995, then the scenes in those cities were not to my taste, they were very small and not great, not much salsa, the scene in Dallas was definitely better than in Houston and New Orleans, but that is long, long ago. Know the scene in Hampton Roads (lived there for 10 months), VA, did not like it at all and stopped going out. The scene here in Jacksonville, FL, is not great, either, but Orlando is not far and we are having a ball.

[tangotime]

Interesting thread!



Unfortunately, I do not know the Tampa scene yet but when seeing all the many clubs listed on the Internet, I get itchy and want to check it out badly! Any tips, tangotime? We will spend one night in Tampa probably on Wednesday, 23 Nov. (before Thanksgiving) and would like to check it out.






There is a club on Dale Mabry ( the name escapes me, about 3 miles past the stadium ), that has a Wed. nite. Its % 99.9 latino. It can get pretty packed and the floor is a tad small. You can park yourself or valet . Best time to get there is about 9.45 . Ybor city has clubs, but its muy tourista .

[Vin]

That was not the point-- was showing a comparative analysis in pop.against a declaritive statement .---- do you understand that ??

And have taught in enough major cities to be more than aware, the lack of support and or knowledge, of the latino pop. in general ,about much of the indigenous music, and dance ,from which the genre hails .

Sorry, Statistics really isn't my bag baby . . . I am more of a logician. TJ made a statement. You stated it was false and used a statistic to back up your argument. I am saying your statistic and TJ's statement are not necessarily correlated.

We all have preferences, I personally find that I enjoy a more diverse salsa scene than 99% Latino, nothing against Latino's(I am Latino even). I find that more diversity in the scene leads to more enjoyment for me. If the scene was 99% gringo I would not like it either.

In any case, if the scene were 99% women, I guess I could learn to live with a homogenous scene.

[borikensalsero]

If so, please tell me where to go in PR because I have yet to find salsa nirvana in PR.

The PR scene is jumping. The difficulties are finding a person who knows the scene. The island is small, a knowledgeable PR salsero can tell you where and when to find a happening spot. You must be willing to drive, though. Last time I visited the island I found Salsa music and dancers in Santurce, Carolina, Caguas, Vega Baja, Isabella, Añasco (my home town), Moca, Ponce. I saw Wille Rosario, La Sonora Ponceña, El Gran Combo, Cano Estremera, numerous cover bands, for a grand price of $5 bucks; the admittance to one club (Havana in Santurce).

Word of mouth mostly, I arrive, attend a venue frequented by dancers on thursday nights in my hometown, by the time the night is over, the feuding local troupes inform me of the latest gossip and venues to visit while in the island. They've remained constant through the years: Havana in Santurce, Black Jack in Isabela, La Plazita en santurce, Loiza ( though mainly to socialize, maybe a steamy dance if music is right), this one spot on the second floor in the town of Caguas in a seemingly abandoned building where dancers arrive a 3AM and go until 11am (after hours). Last I heard it was still going on, but this was about a year and half ago. I used to date a young girl whose cousin was considered the latest dancing sensation in the island. They used to take me from club to club. Eat dinner at around 7PM, drive 2 hours to a venue (usually el gran combo, bobby valentin, or sonora ponceña were playing) where island wide dancers agreed to attend, at around midnight, in caravans of hormones and testosterone, drive back 2 hours to someone’s house, shower, change clothes and head back out to after-hours salsa parties.

The upper hand in the US is that folks actually use the internet and inform each other of venues. Imagine coming to NY, where everyone night there is place to dance, yet you know no one, have no resources to find a place, and never even run into some who dances at a regular latin club. How would your perspective on New York change based on those experiences?

[bailarina]

Interesting thread!

Well, I guess the ranking criteria of each and everyone of us are very subjective, as are mine. I rank the salsa scene by the quality of the music, the ambiente and by opportunities of great live concerts (= great music, falls basically into the same category). When my husband and I like the music, we have a great time and dance a lot. So for me it is more important that HE likes the music = he dances a lot! We have the same music taste so when he likes it, I definitely like it. We both love Puerto Rican salsa and reggeatón makes us sick.

When in addition the ambiente is (very) "Latino" and there are good dancers around us, we enjoy it even more.

My ranking is:
1. Puerto Rico
2. Orlando, FL, great!
3. Miami (only limited experience)

In PR and Orlando (and I bet also in Tampa) one can see so many of the best salsa live concerts, it is just outstanding! This year (in Orlando and Jacksonville alone) we saw Tito Nieves, The Big 3 Palladium Orchestra, the Tommy Olivencia Orchestra (La Primerisima) with 7 of his former singers, e.g. Hector Tricoche and Lalo Rogdriguez; Tony Vega, Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz, Ray de la Paz, Rafael de Jesús, Tribute to Hector Lavoe, next Friday hopefully Ray de la Paz again (I love him!) and next Saturday Tito Rojas, Lefty Perez, David Pabón and Paquito Acosta, in November Grupo Niche, NG2, La Sonora Ponceña and so the list goes on....
Also the ambiente is very Puertorrican in Orlando, you feel like being in Puerto Rico, 98% of the scene are Latinos, hardly any "gringos" like me.

In PR one sees better, more sophisticated dancers with more sabor!

Unfortunately, I do not know the Tampa scene yet but when seeing all the many clubs listed on the Internet, I get itchy and want to check it out badly! Any tips, tangotime? We will spend one night in Tampa probably on Wednesday, 23 Nov. (before Thanksgiving) and would like to check it out.

Here in the US I have been to NYC (that was over 10 years ago and I went out only twice), DC (last year, to 2 live concerts: El Gran Combo and I Love Salsa) and had a good time but I cannot rate those places based on my very limited experience.
I have also been to the Mayan in LA but apparently the "wrong" night for salsa, did not enjoy it and did neither see any good dancers nor have any good dances, disappointing. Have been to Houston, Dallas and New Orleans in 1995, then the scenes in those cities were not to my taste, they were very small and not great, not much salsa, the scene in Dallas was definitely better than in Houston and New Orleans, but that is long, long ago. Know the scene in Hampton Roads (lived there for 10 months), VA, did not like it at all and stopped going out. The scene here in Jacksonville, FL, is not great, either, but Orlando is not far and we are having a ball.

Thanks for the info -- any idea if there is anything going on in Tallahassee?

[salsera_alemana]

I have never been to Tallahassee but I found this: http://www.salsapower.com/cities/fl/tallahassee.htm.

It does not look like there is much going on in Tallahassee when it comes to salsa. I think the Panhandle is the part of Florida with the least Latin music. I heard a lady calling our Latin radio stadion say that she lived in that part and that she was so grateful to be able to listen to this station as they had nothing where they lived.

[tangotime]

I coached there for many yrs-- as I re call, there was a latin nite on Thurs ?

[Big10]

Have been to Houston, Dallas and New Orleans in 1995, then the scenes in those cities were not to my taste, they were very small and not great, not much salsa, the scene in Dallas was definitely better than in Houston and New Orleans, but that is long, long ago.
"Long ago," indeed! Twelve years is virtually an eternity in any music/dancing/club scene, and I assure you that things are much different in Houston now. It wouldn't surprise me if the Houston area has gained literally a million more people over that time period, including many folks from a wide variety of Latin-American countries -- thus expanding the "base" for a number of venues playing Latin music.

There are certainly some good dancers in Dallas and New Orleans, but Houston's overall Salsa "scene" has surpassed them both, and it's not even close, by the criteria I listed earlier in this thread.

[salsera_alemana]

Big10,
I heard it from a (Colombian) friend of a friend who lives in Houston that the Houston scene is big and good now, no comparison to 1995 (ages ago in salsa terms). At that time the scene was underdeveloped or non existent in most places.

[dancin/dj]

I am curious how the international cities match up as well. If anyone can compare in any way . . . London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Cali, Buenos Aires, Cairo, Sydney, Singapore, any others . . . c'mon step up to the plate i can speak about rome and milan from first hand experiance, i "ve dance in both citys & and have friends in both places, they all do salsa and i danced at some of the cool spots. i like the scene there, different styles in rome &milan, from what i've seen
& experianced there just as good as we are here , every kind of level of dancers, from reallllllllllllllly good to ahhhhh ok, my friend enzo from the milan area ,dances excellent salsa, a few gals i know in rome, they can dance con mucho sabor,parco roselli-il tropical is way cool in rome.. if you want i'll write it in italian, nah i dont want to get in trouble,lol.

[tj]

I hear Rome calling out to vin... ;)