Cheaper alternative to private lessons?

[Statlady]

Hi, I'm new here. From what I've read, you all seem like a reasonable bunch, so I thought I would tell you of my dilemma.

I am currently enrolled in private ballroom dance lessons at a local studio. I paid for the lessons awhile back when my husband and I were both working full-time (my husband detests dancing, so I'm taking them alone). I have since quit my job to be a stay-at-home-mom. I am completely addicted to ballroom dancing. If I could, I would dance all day, every day. I danced a lot growing up and in college, but am fairly new to ballroom dancing. Anyway, my instructor has been talking about moving me up to the next level. This prospect is very exciting to me, but would involve a significant financial investment. The truth of the matter is that I simply don't have that kind of money.

It breaks my heart to think that I won't be able to continue my dance training once my current enrollment expires. Taking a job again isn't an option because my children are very young and it is important to me to stay home with them. I'm so upset about this that I actually dreamed about dancing all night long. So, I thought I would post here to see if any of you other dance-addicts had any ideas of a way I can continue dancing without spending thousands of dollars.

Thanks so much in advance!

[latingal]

Welcome to DF Statlady!

Yes, dancing can be very, very expensive. Are you currently competing pro-am? Or just taking lessons to improve your dancing?

I compete pro-am and find that I can get away with two lessons a weeks with a high level instructor and see steady improvement. I do alot of work on my own between lessons to cement in whatever we worked on in the lessons. If I wasn't competing I could probably get away with one a week.

You could also supplement your learning with good group classes. A good technique class is invaluable.

It sounds like you may be enrolled at a "chain" studio where they encourage you to buy packages? If so, you may also wish to look into an independent teacher/studio that allows you to be more flexible with frequency of lessons and lesson purchases.

Not sure if any of this helped....please do feel free to continue the dialog! And again, welcome!

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Hi Statlady!

From your description, I'm a bit uneasy about your studio. I don't like the idea of someone telling me, if you want to learn The X Technique or advance to the Platinum level, you're going to have to pay $Y for Package Z. Different people progress at different rates. Two people might both be taking 1 lesson/week, but one might be more diligent about practice and therefore progress faster. Or someone might have less time for practice, and decide to pace herself differently, taking 1 lesson every 2 weeks.

It sounds like you're on a package. Like latingal, most people on DF are a la carte. It's like a cafeteria plan for dancers, and can tend to provide greater flexibility in how you want to direct your learning.

Generally, people recommend 1-2 hours of practice per hour of group class and 3 hours of practice per private lesson.

Ballroom-on-a-budget suggestion:

----------------------------Time ---------------------- Estimated monthly cost
2 group classes/week ------ 2 hrs class + 2 hrs practice - $100
1 technique class/week ---- 1 hr class + 2 hrs practice -- $50
1 social/dance party/week - 3 hrs ----------------------- $50

Estimated total ----------- 10 hrs/week ----------------- $200

You could consider substituting 1 lesson every 2 weeks for the technique class and 1 group class:

1 group class/week ------- 1 hr class + 2 hrs practice ----------- $50
1 private lesson/2 weeks -- 0.5 hr lesson (avg.) + 2 hrs practice - $150
1 social/dance party/week - 3 hrs ------------------------------ $50

Estimated total ------------ 8.5 hrs/week ---------------------- $250

Hope this helps. Welcome to DF!

[samina]

when my financial/work situation changed, i switched from a studio package to private instruction with an independent teacher. made all the difference... might be something to consider in your circumstances.

[Statlady]

Trying again . . .

Wow, thanks for the fast replies!

No, I'm not competing at all, though I would like to at some point, if possible. Yes, I am going to a chain dance studio. I'm fairly new to this area and it was the only way I could figure out to find a reputable teacher. They have me on a "starter" package (don't want to reveal the actual name) right now. After a few lessons, it became clear that that package was not quite right for me and I could benefit a lot more from a more advanced package. I'm about half-way through my original package now. If I were to "move up" I would have to sign a new contract for a new package. It would likely involve more lessons, but I could decide the frequency. The cost per lesson is the same, and the group lessons are free. If I were to have one 45-min. lesson per week, the monthly cost would be about $350, but that would include all the group classes and parties I have time for.

Really, I can't even afford $100/month . . . things are really tight right now. If I could get lessons for that much, however, I might be able to swing it. Part of the problem with the studio is that they require you to pay all at once if you want a discount. Otherwise, it costs even more. I certainly don't have, say, $4000 that I can just pay up front.

If I wanted to, how would I go about finding a decent independent instructor? It seems like that would be an easy way for some guy to get pretty girls to come see him alone . . . . And then, how would I ever get practice with other people?

I should also add that I took a few ballroom classes in college and even did a medals exam (if that's what it's called?) at Bronze level for Samba and Rumba. I also competed in DanceSport (don't know how that's spelled) doing Cha Cha and Swing. It's been eight years since then.

Really, I just want to dance. Since my husband doesn't dance, it's not like I can just go out dancing with him. It doesn't even have to be ballroom, necessarily, but that seems to be the only form of dance that adults do anymore. I did folk dancing in college, and have found some social folk dance groups, but they usually consist mainly of people over 45, and I'm 29.

[samina]

you can't use your existing package to study more advanced technique or figures?? that doesn't sound kosher to me...

does that raise a red flag for anyone else here?

[Terpsichorean Clod]

It'll pass. :D If I understand correctly, posts by new members are approved on an individual basis?

[Terpsichorean Clod]

...moving me up to the next level...would involve a significant financial investment...
Major red flag for me. Could you tell us your location? State, maybe region/city? I imagine there'd be a DFer or two who could recommend a studio in your area.

[SDsalsaguy]

OK, this is ridiculous . . . I guess I'll just wait for a moderator to review my original long message. Anybody know why this is happening to me?
The software automatically directs posts by newer members into a to-be-moderated status if (a) their are any links in it, or (b) certain combinations of words. Longer posts thus have a higher chance of being flagged. After you have 'x' number of approved posts they'll go through directly. As you'll have noted, the moderating staff gets to this stuff fairly quickly, so just sit tight and all should be well in short order. Thanks, and welcome to DF!

[Larinda McRaven]

I would suggest looking into a local YMCA or community center. There are often classes for as little as $15.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Part of the problem with the studio is that they require you to pay all at once if you want a discount. Otherwise, it costs even more. I certainly don't have, say, $4000 that I can just pay up front.
It was discussed recently, with a pretty unanimous "no".

Should I prepay for 100 lessons with 20% discount? (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=19852)

[Statlady]

Oooh, interesting, I didn't see that thread. I'll check it out. You guys are awesome, by the way! :)

[waltzgirl]

Do look around for an independent studio, where you can take just what you want/can afford. In your boat, I'd look for a studio that had a wide variety of group classes and regular parties, then, if I could afford it, I'd add in a private lesson once a month or whatever, to try to keep technique on track.

There is certainly some way you can keep dancing. If you want to post the area where you live, someone on DF may have a specific recommendation for you.

Welcome to DF!

[Statlady]

I was originally hesitant to say where I live for fear someone from the studio might read this thread. But, they know what they do . . . . .

I live in the Kansas City area.

[Statlady]

I would suggest looking into a local YMCA or community center. There are often classes for as little as $15.

Would they be any good, though? This is probably bad of me, but I get very frustrated dancing with beginner partners who can't lead or stay on the music.

Actually, I believe one of the studios I looked into before I joined my current one allows you to take group classes without taking private lessons. I think the cost is even less than $15.

The thing I don't like about group classes is the lack of continuity. The ones at my studio pretty much stand alone, so it's kind of hard to make progress. I think it's the same at the other studio I mentioned.

[Larinda McRaven]

http://ballroomdancers.com/Directory/Studios/


There is not a whole lot in your area. And I cannot comment on prices. I do know however that Walter Dance Studio and Ballroom Unlimited are both HIGHLY respected and full of great teachers.

[latingal]

I never went through the "chain school" packaging, so am unsure how the packages relate to learning more advanced movement. But that is one good thing about independent teachers, they teach you at your pace. So what ever you're ready for, they teach. It's not dependent on the type of package you buy.

As for your question about finding a good independent teacher, you may have by now found older threads that discuss this very subject?

[Larinda McRaven]

Well price is a funny thing, if you don't pay a lot, you probably won't get a lot. Unfortunately you can pay an arm and a leg and not get anything either. But if you are trying to stay with in that budget, this is the budget you have to work with, and you can set the terms as high or as low as you want.

And pretty much no, you are not going to get high quality continuous intruction for under $100 a month, unless you do the group thing. Lets say you can budget $75 a month. That is about $18 a week. So basically you are going to be looking at group classes. So it is a matter of doing the leg work at the gym, Y, and all of your local studios to see what their group classes cost. And whether they have a dop in rate or a better rate if you buy a package.

Or simply drop the idea of group class altogether and just go to studio parties for $10-15 and take the free class before the party. The free classes are not deeigned to really teach much, but you may learn some fun patterns. But your $15 will last you 3 hours instead of 45 minutes.

[Statlady]

And pretty much no, you are not going to get high quality continuous intruction for $100 a month, unless you do the group thing.

Hmmm, well, maybe if I only took one lesson per month. But it would be awfully hard to progress at that frequency.

Oh, this is making me sad. :( I can't even put into words how much I love dancing. Of course, I don't need to tell *you* all that . . . :) I suppose this is the type of sacrifice one has to make if one wants to be a stay-at-home-mom. My husband will be making a lot more money in the future (he's still technically in training), so I can probably start up again then. In the meantime, however, I will miss it so much.

[Larinda McRaven]

If you are intent on private lessons can you swing one a month...with a decent intructor for $75? And then get the rest of your fix at Y for $10.

[latingal]

Statlady, if you really are on a tight budget, I'd try to find a really good technique class. There is one in my area (unfortunately which isn't in yours), taught by a US Finalist, once a week for $15 a class. You get great information, drills/exercises to practice it in, and other people around to dance with.

I understand it might be very hard to find a class like this, but it's a thought.

[latingal]

I do like Larinda's suggestion too. If your teacher can load you up with things to practice until the next lesson, and you are motivated to practice yourself, and you do a cheaper group class, you could still make progress.

[delamusica]

I would take 1-2 privates a month, and go to all the practice parties and socials you can find (not just at the studio where you're studying!), and practice at home.

If you're staying involved, using your skills, and practicing what you learn, you should still be able to make some reasonable progress with only 1-2 lessons a month, IMO.

[LucyDiamond]

Hi Statlady!

Do you have some dancing friends that share your goals? I once went to a studio that offered what they called "private groups". Basically, a group of people book a teacher the same night each week for a set number of weeks and share the cost. You pick what you want to work on instead of what the studio is offering. So, for example, if you have 3 other friends and the cost of the teacher is $75/lesson, your share would be $18.75, well within your $100/month budget. This is just a thought. I hope it all works out for you.

[Statlady]

Do you have some dancing friends that share your goals? I once went to a studio that offered what they called "private groups". Basically, a group of people book a teacher the same night each week for a set number of weeks and share the cost. You pick what you want to work on instead of what the studio is offering. So, for example, if you have 3 other friends and the cost of the teacher is $75/lesson, your share would be $18.75, well within your $100/month budget. This is just a thought. I hope it all works out for you.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have any dancing friends. :(

It's not that I'm intent on private lessons, per se. I just don't think I would quite be satisfied with group lessons if they're anything like the ones I've been attending. At my studio, I don't think you're allowed to come to the socials/parties unless you're a member. Is that different at other studios?

[waltzgirl]

If you really love dancing, you'll find a way to do it.

You might be surprised at how much you can progress through group classes and an occasional private. Especially if you are used to a studio that rations out training as you describe, only teaching certain things in certain packages.

As a beginner, I'd say what you need most are three things:

1) to learn the basic patterns of each dance. Even as a follower, you need to learn these so that you understand the vocabulary of each dance and can respond to the lead with something that makes sense in terms of the dance you are doing. I found group classes great for this at the beginning. Many studios run their groups as monthly (or longer) classes, so there is some continuity and progress.

2) to establish a good technical foundation, focusing at first on your posture and frame and footwork. An occasional private, especially if you focused each one on a single technical issue, would give you that. And you can practice those things on your own, or even when you are dancing with a hopeless leader.

3) the ability to follow a variety of leaders. Unless you want only to compete and never social dance, you need to develop the ability to follow leaders who are not as good as your pro. Parties will give you that!

Of course, there's nothing like dancing regularly with a good pro and no one blames you for grieving the (temporary, I hope) end of that.

But there are options you can pursue to keep dancing.

Good luck!

[LucyDiamond]

All of the independent studios that I know of allow anyone to come to the socials.

[waltzgirl]

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have any dancing friends. :(

It's not that I'm intent on private lessons, per se. I just don't think I would quite be satisfied with group lessons if they're anything like the ones I've been attending. At my studio, I don't think you're allowed to come to the socials/parties unless you're a member. Is that different at other studios?

Yes, at most independent studios, group classes are ala carte--you pay for them one at a time, or monthly, or sometines there's a package of so many at a discount. But you don't have to be doing anything else to take them, or to go to the parties.

If I were you, I'd start going to groups and parties at other studios now, rather than waiting until your current contract expires. You may be surprised at what you find. (But don't tell your current studio that you are doing this. Some of them react not so well if they discover a student is going outside their system.)

[LucyDiamond]

If I were you, I'd start going to groups and parties at other studios now, rather than waiting until your current contract expires. You may be surprised at what you find. (But don't tell your current studio that you are doing this. Some of them react not so well if they discover a student is going outside their system.)
Great idea! I agree 110%!!!

[Statlady]

All of the independent studios that I know of allow anyone to come to the socials.

Hmm, well, maybe they do . . . it's not like they make you show ID or anything. But, they've given me the idea that the parties are only for members. To be honest, I've never been very comfortable with the studio's sales model. They're extremely pushy. Plus, their whole "package" thing is kind of stupid, now that I think about it. I do really like my current teacher, but I suppose I could find someone else I like. The studio is also *really* nice--huge main floor and two smaller ballrooms. Hmmm, maybe that's because they make people buy 100 lessons at once . . . . ;)

My husband knows how much I love dancing, so maybe we can sit down and figure out exactly how much we can "afford" per month. In reality, it would have to come out of our savings. I checked out the web site of Walter's Dance Center. They definitely seem less used-car-salesman-like than my current studio.

Just so I know, what is a typical hourly rate for a private lesson?

[Statlady]

Drat, I lost another post. I'm not sure if it went to a moderator or if it just got lost.

[No, not lost - its active now (see above). --SD]

Now I can't remember what I was going to say . . . I did check out the web site for Walters Dance Center. They emphasize the fact that they don't force you to sign a contract and that their teachers are independent. That sound like a good thing.

My husband knows how much I love dancing so maybe we can sit down and figure out exactly how much we can "afford" to spend. In reality, we'll have to use our savings to pay for it. Just so I know, what is a typical hourly rate range for private lessons?

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Just so I know, what is a typical hourly rate range for private lessons?
I've seen them in the neighborhood of $60-85 over here.
Cost of Private Lessons (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=514)

[Statlady]

[No, not lost - its active now (see above). --SD]

Ah, yes. Sorry about repeating myself then. Sometimes when I push the submit button, all I get is a blank screen. That's what happened last time, so I couldn't tell what happened to my post.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Hi Statlady!

Do you have some dancing friends that share your goals? I once went to a studio that offered what they called "private groups". Basically, a group of people book a teacher the same night each week for a set number of weeks and share the cost. You pick what you want to work on instead of what the studio is offering. So, for example, if you have 3 other friends and the cost of the teacher is $75/lesson, your share would be $18.75, well within your $100/month budget. This is just a thought. I hope it all works out for you.
That's a very good idea. I used to do that. They were called mini-group lessons. Funny thing was that it was actually cheaper than regular group classes. A group class with 10-20 couples cost $16/session/person. Split amongst 6 people, the mini-group came to $15/session/person. 2 people dropped out so we ended up with $22.50/session/person, which is still pretty good. I thought it very time-efficient. While the teacher was working with one couple, the other couple would be practicing what they'd just been taught. We rotated partners, too.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have any dancing friends. :(

It's not that I'm intent on private lessons, per se. I just don't think I would quite be satisfied with group lessons if they're anything like the ones I've been attending. At my studio, I don't think you're allowed to come to the socials/parties unless you're a member. Is that different at other studios?
Once you find a decent studio and keep dancing there, you'll make plenty (too many, perhaps ;) ) dancing friends. That's how a number of my friends found their dance partners.

Group classes vary greatly from studio to studio. Some are a complete waste of time. Others teach you principles that will last a lifetime. Unfortunately, there's no getting around having to try out different classes/studios.

But just because there is an option that is right for every student doesn't mean that every student will find their optimum teacher before running out of patience or money.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

The thing I don't like about group classes is the lack of continuity. The ones at my studio pretty much stand alone, so it's kind of hard to make progress. I think it's the same at the other studio I mentioned.
95% of the group classes I've taken were at least a month long. I've taken a few which lasted 3 or even 4 months.

[Chris Stratton]

But, they've given me the idea that the parties are only for members.

Some studios try to maintain a closed community, others are much more open - happy to see new faces, and accepting the reality that many dancers will visit different places on different nights week after week. Over time this openness causes some new students to drift in, and some old students will drift to other studios, but if a studio is well run and has something to offer, in the long run it seems to do just fine with opening its socials.

[Statlady]

Heh, it sounds like I need to find a new studio for sure!

Thanks SO much for all the info and advice. Unfortunately, I think it would be irresponsible for me to dip into our savings account for even one private lesson per month. I may do what you've suggested, however, and take some group classes at different places. I may find something I love! If I do that for awhile then maybe I can start private lessons again when my husband starts to make more money.

[latingal]

Good luck Statlady...hope you will continue dancing. Let us know how it goes!

[Indiana_Jay]

Statlady:

I've joined this conversation a little late. Forgive me if I repeat what someone else already wrote.

One thing that strikes me is that your desire for significant growth in dance (and possibly even competition) conflicts with your family budget. You've expressed a reluctance to take only group classes, yet even one private lesson a month might be difficult to afford (and might not be all that helpful).

What I'd like to suggest is that your situation unfortunately requires compromise. While you can't afford the dance training you'd like to take, that's no reason to stop dancing altogether, even if it means not meeting your growth goals for a while.

In our city (including suburbs), there are four ballroom studios. One is a franchise studio. It's where my lovely wife and I learned to dance. It sells only private lessons. Group lessons and weekly dances are included in the private lesson price (you can't get into them unless you're taking private lessons). I believe this is typical of the Arthur Murray and Fred Astaire franchised studios, although franchise holders (studio owners) make their own decisions about how to run their businesses and so there is some variation from studio to studio, even within a franchise.

All three of the other studios in our area are "independent" (that is, not part of franchises). They all offer all of their services "ala carte." They welcome anyone at their dances and even drop-ins for their group classes.

It seems to me that this is the kind of place you need to be for a while. If you can afford $20/month for dancing, spend $5/week to go to an independent studio's weekly dance. At least you'll be dancing. And depending on the studio, the dance admission might include a pre-dance lesson. Sure, you might not learn much, but at least it'll be a chance to practice technique and help some rank beginners learn some basics.

If you can afford a little more, add a weekly group class at one of these "ala carte" studios. Surely you'll get something out of it, even if you don't progress as quickly as you'd really like to.

Sometime in the future, when the budget permits, there's no reason you could not then go back to the franchise studio, if you really prefer the instructors there.

One more thing. Check out http://usabda.org/home/our_chapters/find_a_chapter/index.cfm to see if USA Dance has a chapter in your area. Most chapters offer monthly dances preceded by a group lesson. If nothing else, this would be another economical opportunity to dance. And if you do some volunteer work for the chapter (help decorate, serve food, whatever), you'll more quicly make new dance friends who are students at a variety of different studios.

Best of luck!

-IJ

[Statlady]

Wow. I am seriously impressed with how nice and helpful you all are. I recently posted some questions on a different message board (not about dancing) and got some really rude replies, so I'm always wary when I go someplace new. So, thanks! :D

If you can afford $20/month for dancing, spend $5/week to go to an independent studio's weekly dance. At least you'll be dancing. And depending on the studio, the dance admission might include a pre-dance lesson. Sure, you might not learn much, but at least it'll be a chance to practice technique and help some rank beginners learn some basics.

If you can afford a little more, add a weekly group class at one of these "ala carte" studios. Surely you'll get something out of it, even if you don't progress as quickly as you'd really like to.

This is precisely what I'm planning to do. In the next few weeks, if my current studio isn't offering any group classes I want to attend, I may check out one of the other studios. Once my current package expires, then I'll probably try to attend one dance event per week at least.

Sometime in the future, when the budget permits, there's no reason you could not then go back to the franchise studio, if you really prefer the instructors there.It's really only my current instructor that I like. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like someone else just as much. The only other thing I like about my studio is how big the main ballroom is and the fact that they have 3 separate dance floors. After hearing what you all have to say, I'm really quite fed up with their sales model. For example, I'm fairly certain that if I indicate to my instructor that I will not be able to sign up for any more lessons in the future, he'll tell me I can't attend the higher-level group classes anymore. I think that stinks. I feel like I should be able to attend the classes appropriate to my ability, not just the ones associated with my current package. The cost per lesson is exactly the same, so it's not like they'd be losing money by letting my take the Bronze-level classes. They'd just lose their incentive to get me to sign up for the Bronze package.

[latingal]

Wow. I am seriously impressed with how nice and helpful you all are. I recently posted some questions on a different message board (not about dancing) and got some really rude replies, so I'm always wary when I go someplace new. So, thanks! :D

Thank you Statlady, we're glad to have you here as a participating member! We do try to nurture an environment that is friendly and interesting, at times I think some of our membership might think we are a bit too restrictive with our guidelines/moderating, but I hope it serves the purpose of encouraging friendly discourse and the exchange of knowledge!

I'm glad that you will be continuing to dance, it sounds like something you really love and that you will find a way!

[Zhena]

Really, I just want to dance. Since my husband doesn't dance, it's not like I can just go out dancing with him. It doesn't even have to be ballroom, necessarily, but that seems to be the only form of dance that adults do anymore. I did folk dancing in college, and have found some social folk dance groups, but they usually consist mainly of people over 45, and I'm 29.

Let me put in a plug for taking another look at folk dancing. If one of your goals is just to dance, and you're (obviously) not in a dating situation, the age of the other participants needn't be a major factor. They may not move as fast as younger people, but you may find they move fast enough to give you a good workout. I do ballroom two nights a week and folk dancing two nights a week. I dress for ballroom for how my outfits look, but I dress for folk dancing for comfort because I am much more likely to get hot and sweaty on folk dance nights!

Another advantage of folk dancing if you are without a partner is that you don't need one for line dances. You can also continue to work on your own issues like balance or foot strength (though there's not a lot of need for good Cuban motion;)). And (speaking generally -- I don't know about your area) folk dancers are usually very friendly and welcoming. Finally, there is so much variety in folk dance -- different moves, different music -- you're sure to find something you love about it.

Try it and let us know ... I'd love to hear how it goes ....

Edited to add: Since you did folk dancing before, you probably already know this, but ... folk dancing tends to be less expensive than ballroom, even if you don't consider private lessons (which don't exist in the folk dance world). Classes and parties are likely to be well within your budget.

[MissBallroomBear]

Logical answer:

WIN THE LOTTERY! :D

[Statlady]

Let me put in a plug for taking another look at folk dancing.

Oh, you don't have to sell me on folk dancing. It will forever be my first love. You may have heard of the International Folk Dance Ensemble at Brigham Young University. I was on the backup tour group while I attended college there. In case you don't know, their touring company tours all over the world every year. http://folkdance.byu.edu/ Wow, I was just looking at that site and I think I'm in the photo for the Scottish dance!

Before I moved to the city I live in now, I got involved with a folk dance group. I can't remember for sure, but I believe it was completely free to attend their weekly dance. I even joined their "board" and was allowed to be in charge of choosing all the dances one night (but then I quit not long after).

If one of your goals is just to dance, and you're (obviously) not in a dating situation, the age of the other participants needn't be a major factor. They may not move as fast as younger people, but you may find they move fast enough to give you a good workout.I had two problems with the age difference. First, I really never felt like I was friends with anybody, even after going there for a year. At the time, I was only 24 and there was one woman who was about 35, and then pretty much everyone else was 50+. Part of my reason for dancing is to make friends, and while I'm open to making friends with people of any age, it's tough with a 30-year age difference. Second, there were really only 2 or 3 people who wanted to do the more vigorous dances, which are my favorite. In fact, when I would request a difficult dance, I could tell the other people got annoyed. I tried to teach them a couple of dances that were more lively, but they didn't seem to enjoy it at all.

Edit: I also missed the performing aspect that I enjoyed at BYU. I know that folk dance isn't really about performance, but that's a big part of what made my college experience so memorable. I think the main thing I liked about performing was working together for a common goal. That's why ballroom competition is appealing to me. So, eventually, I quit going to that folk dance group because it wasn't satisfying to me.

All that said, I haven't checked out any folk dance groups here. I probably should. :)

Edit: I had to search the Net to remember the names of some of my favorite dances since it's been so long. They include, Floricica Olteneasca, Debka Shachar, Buchimish, Vulpita, Rustemul, etc. I was rather partial to Bulgarian and Romanian dances.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I had two problems with the age difference. First, I really never felt like I was friends with anybody, even after going there for a year. At the time, I was only 24 and there was one woman who was about 35, and then pretty much everyone else was 50+. Part of my reason for dancing is to make friends, and while I'm open to making friends with people of any age, it's tough with a 30-year age difference. Second, there were really only 2 or 3 people who wanted to do the more vigorous dances, which are my favorite. In fact, when I would request a difficult dance, I could tell the other people got annoyed. I tried to teach them a couple of dances that were more lively, but they didn't seem to enjoy it at all.



There is an age gap in ballroom world as well. I feel like there are very few 30-somethings who dance. It could be because a lot of them have much younger kids than I do (and more kids than I do, too), and they're busy doing kids stuff. But a lot of times, even if I am not the youngest person at a party (that prize goes to college kids), I feel like there is a sort of vacuum around me - college kids in their early 20s and then folks in 45+ age group, whose kids are out of the house, or at least already have driver's license and do not need their parents around as much.

[Zhena]

Oh, you don't have to sell me on folk dancing. It will forever be my first love. You may have heard of the International Folk Dance Ensemble at Brigham Young University. I was on the backup tour group while I attended college there. In case you don't know, their touring company tours all over the world every year. http://folkdance.byu.edu/ Wow, I was just looking at that site and I think I'm in the photo for the Scottish dance!

...

I had two problems with the age difference. First, I really never felt like I was friends with anybody, even after going there for a year. At the time, I was only 24 and there was one woman who was about 35, and then pretty much everyone else was 50+. Part of my reason for dancing is to make friends, and while I'm open to making friends with people of any age, it's tough with a 30-year age difference. Second, there were really only 2 or 3 people who wanted to do the more vigorous dances, which are my favorite. In fact, when I would request a difficult dance, I could tell the other people got annoyed. I tried to teach them a couple of dances that were more lively, but they didn't seem to enjoy it at all.

Edit: I also missed the performing aspect that I enjoyed at BYU. I know that folk dance isn't really about performance, but that's a big part of what made my college experience so memorable. I think the main thing I liked about performing was working together for a common goal. That's why ballroom competition is appealing to me. So, eventually, I quit going to that folk dance group because it wasn't satisfying to me.

All that said, I haven't checked out any folk dance groups here. I probably should. :)

Wow. That changes my perceptions. I've never seen the BYU group, but I've seen the Duquesne University Tamburitzans, and if you dance at that level (of energy and technique) I can see why a typical social group may not meet your needs. But do check them out -- you may find a group that is livelier than the other one you tried. The group I dance with is mostly over 50 as well (I am 54) but we are willing to do the occasional vigorous dance. When I lead Zhora Bar I 'll take it a little slow in deference to the 80-year old in the line, and we're not up to performance standards, but we get through the whole dance! And we regularly do Vulpita and Rustemul.

As to the age difference for socializing -- it's a challenge because your interests and concerns are likely to be different, but it shouldn't be a bar to social interaction. Maybe a different group will have someone you can click with.

You might also want to look for performing groups in your area -- they might be able to take advantage of your knowledge and experience.

Finally, it's great to have another lover of folk dance on DF. My husband and I do both folk and ballroom, but our first love is folk -- our challenge is that we can't possibly do as much as we would like. Please stick around.

[Statlady]

There is an age gap in ballroom world as well. I feel like there are very few 30-somethings who dance. It could be because a lot of them have much younger kids than I do (and more kids than I do, too), and they're busy doing kids stuff. But a lot of times, even if I am not the youngest person at a party (that prize goes to college kids), I feel like there is a sort of vacuum around me - college kids in their early 20s and then folks in 45+ age group, whose kids are out of the house, or at least already have driver's license and do not need their parents around as much.

Yeah, I know what you mean. One good thing about my studio, however, is there do seem to be some 30-something students. Overall, though, most people are older. Most of the teachers, however, are my age, so that's nice.

[Statlady]

Logical answer:

WIN THE LOTTERY! :D

At statistician who plays the lottery is like a doctor who smokes. ;)

[jennyisdancing]

There is an age gap in ballroom world as well. I feel like there are very few 30-somethings who dance. It could be because a lot of them have much younger kids than I do (and more kids than I do, too), and they're busy doing kids stuff. But a lot of times, even if I am not the youngest person at a party (that prize goes to college kids), I feel like there is a sort of vacuum around me - college kids in their early 20s and then folks in 45+ age group, whose kids are out of the house, or at least already have driver's license and do not need their parents around as much.

Yep, it's exactly like that where where I am too. The 25-45 year olds are usually just too busy raising families to get out and dance much. That was true for me as well. I gave up most of my dancing when I got married and started a family. My son just started college, and after 20 years I now have time on my hands to dance again. I do ballroom, swing, Arg. tango and occasionally folk or line dancing, and in all cases it's pretty much a 45+ crowd with a sprinkling of college students.

The one exception is salsa. Statlady, have you tried that? Salsa definitely draws many younger adults, and the classes are usually paid per lesson or course, rather than a formal, chain-studio contract situation.

Also, since your husband won't be dancing with you, have you considered other non-partner dances? Would you possibly enjoy jazz, tap, or hip-hop? Usually those classes draw a somewhat younger crowd since they are more physically demanding. And you said you enjoy performing - the non-partner dancing classes often involve recitals.

[Zhena]

At statistician who plays the lottery is like a doctor who smokes. ;)

You can't win if you don't play, so DH always buys ONE ticket to leave a path for karma ...

[Statlady]

The one exception is salsa. Statlady, have you tried that? Salsa definitely draws many younger adults, and the classes are usually paid per lesson or course, rather than a formal, chain-studio contract situation.

Well, I'm learning salsa as part of my current lessons. I haven't considered taking salsa classes, specifically. I did see one web site for salsa lessons when I was initially looking for a ballroom teacher--it looked kinda shady. It's worth looking into more, though. Thanks for the suggestion.

Also, since your husband won't be dancing with you, have you considered other non-partner dances? Would you possibly enjoy jazz, tap, or hip-hop? Usually those classes draw a somewhat younger crowd since they are more physically demanding. And you said you enjoy performing - the non-partner dancing classes often involve recitals.

Oh, I've done most of that. I took ballet, folk, and jazz dance classes all my growing-up years. I also did some clogging and modern dance in college. From what I've seen, there aren't too many dance classes available for adults. The ones I have seen are only beginning classes. Now, I haven't taken a tap class since I was 12, so that might be interesting. I guess I just look at that type of dance as something intended for teenagers mostly.

[Statlady]

You can't win if you don't play, so DH always buys ONE ticket to leave a path for karma ...

Statistically speaking, you can't win even if you *do* play. I mean, the probability of winning if you buy a ticket is so small that it's not significantly different from zero. I've always thought of the lottery as a tax for people who are bad at math. ;) You know I'm just teasing, I hope. :)

[jennyisdancing]

Well, I'm learning salsa as part of my current lessons. I haven't considered taking salsa classes, specifically. I did see one web site for salsa lessons when I was initially looking for a ballroom teacher--it looked kinda shady. It's worth looking into more, though. Thanks for the suggestion.



Oh, I've done most of that. I took ballet, folk, and jazz dance classes all my growing-up years. I also did some clogging and modern dance in college. From what I've seen, there aren't too many dance classes available for adults. The ones I have seen are only beginning classes. Now, I haven't taken a tap class since I was 12, so that might be interesting. I guess I just look at that type of dance as something intended for teenagers mostly.

I have a very similar background to yours, I also studied ballet and jazz in my childhood/teen years. I agree that it can be very difficult to find these classes for adults; the schools are very much oriented toward kids. In my area I was able to find several places after much searching around on the web and making several phone calls.

In a brief search for your area, I did find that the KC ballet has adult classes (http://www.kcballet.org/kcbschool/openclasses.html), and this studio (http://www.midtowndance.com/id4.html) also has adult ballet; both places offer beginner, intermediate and advanced levels. Also this place (http://www.kacicodance.org/SchoolofDance.html) has contemporary/modern dance for adults. Don't know if that helps.

ETA: Are you interested in flamenco at all? I just started learning that and it's great, and the classes are primarily for adults rather than kids. I see there are a couple of KC locations for this here (http://www.kcflamenco.com/) and here. (http://www.flamencokc.com/schedule.html)

Obviously all these things cost money but I am suggesting them because these types of classes normally don't involve expensive contracts, you can just drop in, or sign up for a short period.

[fascination]

have only read some of this BUT...

1)when I wanted to stay at home with my kids but needed money, I worked on the weekends of evenings...and they had quality time with their dad
2) i echo the sentiment of considering looking for an independent pro I currently pay half of what my friends at chain pay for the smae amount of time and for, in my own humble opinion, better instruction
3)practice...when I didn't take many lessons I eclipsed many more experienced dancers by living in my garage and practicing my brains out on the basics

4) consider babysitting...another one or two kids hardly makes a big difference...in fact, sometimes it helps

[Statlady]

jennyisdancing - Wow! Thanks for the links. That's so nice of you. I'll be sure to check them out. :D

fascination - Thanks for the suggestions. As far as working goes, my husband works all week with some evenings AND on the weekend! Nice, huh? And we're still poor . . . :) The garage!! I'm not sure I ever would have thought of that. We just bought a house 8 months ago so I've never had my own garage before. I've been practicing on carpet in a 4' by 4' area in my living room. Do you put something down on the garage floor to protect your dance shoes? I got a DVD for Christmas last year that demonstrates several patterns for the core dances. I've just barely gotten around to using it. Unfortunately, most of the patterns I've seen so far are ones I already know and the DVD doesn't address technique much.

Right now I'm taking care of my 11-week-old twins, so I have my hands full enough for now! :)

Edit: I received a private message from someone who teaches at a franchise studio (not the same one I go to). He explained to me the thinking behind some of their policies, so I understand them much better now. I feel a little bit bad for implying that my studio's policies are unreasonable. I am still bothered however, by the hard-sell techniques they use. But, hey, I guess it brings in the money!

[fascination]

I just use a crappy pair of practice shoes...and I don't worry about my steps as much as I think about my balance over my foot when I take the step...good luck...and listen...we only have our children small for a while...I started dancing at 38 when my kids were in high school and junior high...it'll come...hang in there

[Statlady]

OK, at risk of taking this thread in a completely different direction, I want to ask a question. It's my thread, so guess I can take it where I want to.

How old are most people who compete? From watching Dancing with the Stars, I've gotten the impression that most people who compete successfully or are pros are in their mid-20's. But, as we just discussed, most people at dance studios are much older than that. I was thinking that at 29 I was too old to just be starting ballroom dance and expecting to be able to compete (or possibly even teach) someday. I mean, to be a professional ballet or modern dancer, you have to be *really* good by the time you're 18 or you're out of luck.

[jennyisdancing]

I don't compete myself but I have friends in their late 20's and in their 30's and 40's who are just starting to compete. This is in West Coast Swing which seems relatively open to older competitors. West Coast Swing competitions are more informal than ballroom events. Costumes are very simple, no fancy hair or heavy makeup, and most of the competition categories are jack and jill (random partner assignments) where you are mainly judged on your social lead-and-follow skills, some of which can be developed through social dancing instead of expensive coaching.

There are many ballroom competition experts on this forum so they know more about it than I do, but it does seem to me that serious ballroom competitors do usually start pretty young. The exception would be pro-am where your partner is your teacher. But of course you have to pay the teacher for all the time they spend with you.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Age and dancing (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=8832)

[fascination]

OK, at risk of taking this thread in a completely different direction, I want to ask a question. It's my thread, so guess I can take it where I want to.

How old are most people who compete? From watching Dancing with the Stars, I've gotten the impression that most people who compete successfully or are pros are in their mid-20's. But, as we just discussed, most people at dance studios are much older than that. I was thinking that at 29 I was too old to just be starting ballroom dance and expecting to be able to compete (or possibly even teach) someday. I mean, to be a professional ballet or modern dancer, you have to be *really* good by the time you're 18 or you're out of luck.
depends...I saw some excellent dancers in their 60s last weekend...Victor Russo's lady....to name just one...wish I could recall her name...personally, I think it serves no useful purpose to ponder one's limitations...only to maximize one's advantages

[etp777]

While I also highly suggest looking into independent teachers as a way to save money, just remember that the independent teacher is not always going to be a better use of your money. I know of one studnet in area (or area where I used to be, anyway), that worked with teacher at a chain studio and an independent teacher, and the chain teacher was DEFINITELY better, both a better dancer, and a better teacher.

[Statlady]

Heh, I had a feeling Terpsichorean Clod was going to link another thread. :) I'm not very good at finding what I'm looking for by searching, so I appreciate that.

[waltzgirl]

You can compete at any age. Competitions are divided by age category and, at pro-am comps, the top group is 80+. (I sometimes joke with my teacher that I have my eye on an over-80 championship--cuz it will take me that long to get good enough :D)

[Statlady]

Thanks for the replies regarding age. I read that other thread and got the info I was looking for, so there's no need to reply about that anymore . . . unless, of course, you want to. :)

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Heh, I had a feeling Terpsichorean Clod was going to link another thread. :) I'm not very good at finding what I'm looking for by searching, so I appreciate that.
Perhaps I'm better suited for a career as a librarian than as an actuary. Speaking of which, I've met one actuary who plays the lottery. :shock:

[Terpsichorean Clod]

You can compete at any age. Competitions are divided by age category and, at pro-am comps, the top group is 80+. (I sometimes joke with my teacher that I have my eye on an over-80 championship--cuz it will take me that long to get good enough :D)
You're just planning to outlive your competition, aren't you? ;)

[waltzgirl]

You're just planning to outlive your competition, aren't you? ;)

My grandmother and her sisters lived into their 90s, so I've got the genes for it! :D

[Terpsichorean Clod]

...I am still bothered however, by the hard-sell techniques they use. But, hey, I guess it brings in the money!
Food for thought
http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=41119&postcount=85

[Terpsichorean Clod]

My grandmother and her sisters lived into their 90s, so I've got the genes for it! :D
<LOL> :cheers:

[Statlady]

You're an actuary? Sweet! I love meeting other math geeks. I met a statistician once who also regularly plays the lottery. Wacko . . . ;)

So, I can't seem to stop thinking about my dilemma here. I've thought about being straight up and telling my teacher that I can't afford to take any more lessons from him. I've thought about playing the game and acting like I can't decide so they'll keep trying to sell me on the next level. The latter is totally not my style, though. I think what I'm going to do is wait until they take me into the little room to talk prices. I'm going to flat-out tell them how much I can afford. If they can give me something that fits my criteria, then great. It certainly won't be the standard package their hoping to sell me, but maybe they'll want to keep my business enough to work with me. With the small amount I can afford, I doubt I'd get much more than group lessons and parties, but at least that way I won't have to change studios if I decide I don't want to. Most likely they'll tell me I'm out of luck and that they don't have any packages that cheap. In that case, I'll say thank you and goodbye.

Now . . . we'll see if I feel the same way tomorrow. :)

[tanya_the_dancer]

OK, at risk of taking this thread in a completely different direction, I want to ask a question. It's my thread, so guess I can take it where I want to.

How old are most people who compete? From watching Dancing with the Stars, I've gotten the impression that most people who compete successfully or are pros are in their mid-20's. But, as we just discussed, most people at dance studios are much older than that. I was thinking that at 29 I was too old to just be starting ballroom dance and expecting to be able to compete (or possibly even teach) someday. I mean, to be a professional ballet or modern dancer, you have to be *really* good by the time you're 18 or you're out of luck.

I am 34 and I have been competing for the last 4 years.

[danceronice]

The pros I know personally who are competing are in their early thirties (at least the men are.)

While you've got a lot of catching up to do, and lord knows I'm working on that, it's not like ballet or skating, where you're a has-been if you haven't made it by sixteen (in skating--seriously, for women in skating, if you haven't made it out of regionals these days and you're sixteen or older, stick a fork in it, you're done. Switching to dance or pairs is only an option if you can find a partner.) But it's a matter of how much time and energy and money can you commit to it--in my case, I'm single with some alternative means of financial support plus four jobs. I don't have to think about anyone else's schedules or finances.

[tanya_the_dancer]

My teacher is competing professionally and he is a few years older than I am. His wife is a few years younger.

[Statlady]

OK . . . I was SO WRONG about my studio! They are wonderful people. Granted, they require long-term contracts, but that's not an uncommon practice.

Today I spoke with one of the higher-up people at the studio about starting a Bronze program. I told her how much I wanted to do it, but then explained how my financial situation had changed since I initially signed up. She said that she would sit down with my teacher and another supervisor and design a smaller program for me that fits the budget I told her I could afford. She could tell that I was rather distressed by the whole situation and she even gave me a hug!

So, I want to take back every negative thing I might have said or suggested about the studio. I'm absolutely thrilled that I'll be able to continue there. I will have to change teachers, which makes me sad, but I've danced with a few of the other male teachers there and I'm sure I'll be fine with whoever I get assigned to next (my teacher is a "specialist," meaning that his main role is to teach new students long enough to design a program for them--then they get passed along to their long-term teacher).

I'm so happy with how this turned out!! :D


As a side note, my teacher's supervisor asked me "On a scale of 1 to 10 how good do you want to get?" Without hesitation, I replied "10!" Is there really any other answer to that question, though? Do people actually say, "I think 5 or 6 would be good enough for me."?

[Joe]

"These go to 11."

[fascination]

;)

[wooh]

"These go to 11."

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.:p

[Terpsichorean Clod]

You're an actuary? Sweet! I love meeting other math geeks. I met a statistician once who also regularly plays the lottery. Wacko . . . ;)

Well, not quite yet. I'm still working towards a designation (2 more to ASA). Er....I was working on it, but seem to have gotten a little sidetracked with a certain hobby... :oops:

I guess my dancing would probably work best if I danced with an actuary - someone who could predict my leading to within 3 significant figures. :razz:

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I'm so happy with how this turned out!! :D
Awesome! I'm glad to hear it all worked out so well! :D
As a side note, my teacher's supervisor asked me "On a scale of 1 to 10 how good do you want to get?" Without hesitation, I replied "10!" Is there really any other answer to that question, though? Do people actually say, "I think 5 or 6 would be good enough for me."?
Everyone may say that they want to be the best, but how many are willing to put in the effort?

[Peaches]

As a side note, my teacher's supervisor asked me "On a scale of 1 to 10 how good do you want to get?" Without hesitation, I replied "10!" Is there really any other answer to that question, though? Do people actually say, "I think 5 or 6 would be good enough for me."?*raising hand* Um...right here. I'd wonder if even 5 or 6 would be high...would depend on the scale being used, I suppose. Not looking to be great.

...except in AT...("we had to beat them to death with their own shoes,) but that's another story altogether."

[Statlady]

*raising hand* Um...right here. I'd wonder if even 5 or 6 would be high...would depend on the scale being used, I suppose. Not looking to be great.

That's cool. I wasn't trying to imply that people who say that are lame somehow or anything. :) It just seemed like a leading question to me.

[Statlady]

Everyone may say that they want to be the best, but how many are willing to put in the effort?

Good point. I absolutely am. If money were no object and I didn't have babies to care for, I'd dance 8 hours a day . . .

[Peaches]

That's cool. I wasn't trying to imply that people who say that are lame somehow or anything. :) It just seemed like a leading question to me.
Oh, agreed. Definitely leading, and I didn't think you were implying anything.

For me, it's actually something of an odd accomplishment to be OK with not being a 10..or a 5. Long story. But, basically, I'm OK with ballroom just being something I play around with. No real drive to become good, beyond being able to follow decently and have enough technique to not be a p.i.t.a. to dance with. No desire to showcase or compete.

With AT though...I want to be an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10...but I'm willing to be patient...I love every moment of the journey.

[Indiana_Jay]

Congrats, Statlady. Your experience serves to prove a point I made earlier -- individual owners of franchised studios make their own decisions about how to run their businesses, so one must be careful making generalities about the franchises.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Peter La Fleur from the movie, Dodgeball: "I found that if you have a goal, that you might not reach it. But if you don't have one, then you are never disappointed. And I gotta tell ya... it feels phenomenal." :cheers:

[Peaches]

Exactly!

[Joe]

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.:p
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.

[wooh]

As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.

I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything.

[Auntie Crazy]

I belong to a franchise as well. I've been there for six months and signed up for the Bronze package with a mutually agreed upon payment plan some time ago. Recently, my daughter, my newly born granddaughter and their two cats moved in with me - and my finances took an abrupt turn for the worse.

I couldn't make my second payment, at all.

The studio, when I confessed I couldn't pay, absolutely took care of me. I was soooo upset and anxious about the whole thing (nearly cried - dance has become the highlight of my life), and they've been nothing but supportive and helpful. I continued the lessons that were already scheduled and paid for, and, 'though the second installment was due nearly two months ago, they've totally trusted that I'll pay when I can and have not asked me, not once, when that will be.

Of course, if I can't come up with additional funds by the time I've danced out what I've paid for (sometime in December), I won't be able to continue with the privates, but I have no doubt the studio will work with me to maximize what opportunities my new financial situation allows.

I love my studio and I adore my instructors. :)

P.S. I don't get here as often as I'd like (all my free time is spent dancing!), but, Statlady, there is no better/kinder/more humorous group of folks than right here on DF!

[Me]

Granted, they require long-term contracts, but that's not an uncommon practice.
...She said that she would sit down with my teacher and another supervisor and design a smaller program for me that fits the budget I told her I could afford...

I hate to chime in on such a negative note and so late into the conversation, but this is TYPICAL of the types of scam tactics used by unscrupulous studios. Asking permission... granting you favors.... asking higher ups... They're good, too - they've managed to weedle out of you an exact monetary figure they can get out of you for the month.

Now think back to your earlier post - they wouldn't transfer your package hours to another plan? They insisted that, despite their opinion that your progress merited a higher level, that you continue to take lower level instruction (in effect wasting your time and money) because they were not willing to transfer your package hours to a higher level. Does that show concern toward you as a talented student of limited means? I don't think so.

Everything you have written sounds bad to me. I'm sorry. :( I really hope that I am wrong. :(

[saludas]

The studio, when I confessed I couldn't pay, absolutely took care of me. I was soooo upset and anxious about the whole thing (nearly cried - dance has become the highlight of my life), and they've been nothing but supportive and helpful. I continued the lessons that were already scheduled and paid for, and, 'though the second installment was due nearly two months ago, they've totally trusted that I'll pay when I can and have not asked me, not once, when that will be.

Of course, if I can't come up with additional funds by the time I've danced out what I've paid for (sometime in December), I won't be able to continue with the privates, but I have no doubt the studio will work with me to maximize what opportunities my new financial situation allows.

I doubt it - since you already paid for lessons they are giving them to you (and making you feel like they are 'doing you a favor' by not 'pressuring' you) but I guarantee that the vibe will change the moment you actually owe money (or are ready to 'continue').

[Statlady]

They're good, too - they've managed to weedle out of you an exact monetary figure they can get out of you for the month.

True . . . but the number I quoted them was $50/month. . . . That can't be making them too excited. I figure, I could get 2 group classes per week somewhere else for that amount, so if they offer me at least that much, then I'll be happy.

Now think back to your earlier post - they wouldn't transfer your package hours to another plan? They insisted that, despite their opinion that your progress merited a higher level, that you continue to take lower level instruction (in effect wasting your time and money) because they were not willing to transfer your package hours to a higher level. Does that show concern toward you as a talented student of limited means? I don't think so.

No, no. That's not what I meant at all. They always said that they would apply my current package hours to another plan. The thing that was bugging me was that "moving up" required purchasing a different plan. I assumed that plan would require $3000+ up-front, but that doesn't seem to be the case after all. I guess until I find out the details of what they can offer me, the jury is still out on them . . . . but I have a good feeling about it.

[Auntie Crazy]

I doubt it - since you already paid for lessons they are giving them to you (and making you feel like they are 'doing you a favor' by not 'pressuring' you) but I guarantee that the vibe will change the moment you actually owe money (or are ready to 'continue').

They aren't "making" me feel anything. :D I alone have control over my feelings.

As for the rest, I made an agreement, reneged on the agreement and, despite that, they have upheld their side of the contract. They are fully aware I might not be able to continue, and still I am being taught as much as I can handle twice a week (and no, not steps - my primary instructor refuses to teach steps even when asked to, because he and the other instructors do so in group lessons). Nor has he asked me to compete again since I told him that was not something I have an interest in.

Of course, only time will tell, but I believe that every studio and franchise should be judged on its own merits, and I believe, based on six months of dancing there, that my studio is a good one.

[fascination]

sometimes folks can be very jaded or very wise....it mostly depends upon how overarching they think their own personal truth is...caution is a fair sentiment.... many have been down a similar road to a bad end...but, in the end, none of us can really make a determination for anyone else because circumstances are never as cut and dried as we might imagine via the internet regarding someone elses' life...good luck to you both

[Statlady]

sometimes folks can be very jaded or very wise....it mostly depends upon how overarching they think their own personal truth is...caution is a fair sentiment.... many have been down a similar road to a bad end...but, in the end, none of us can really make a determination for anyone else because circumstances are never as cut and dried as we might imagine via the internet regarding someone elses' life...good luck to you both

Well said. :)

[fascination]

thank you

[mamboqueen]

depends...I saw some excellent dancers in their 60s last weekend...Victor Russo's lady....to name just one...wish I could recall her name...

Elaine Sheresky? Didn't we chat them up in the hotel bar last year?? Maybe I'm mixing people up....

[fascination]

that's her name but I don't remember chatting her up, lol

[Laura]

Elaine Sheresky?
That's whose name came to mind when I read the post. She's great.

[mamboqueen]

She's a very elegant dancer, imo. She's a newscaster in NYC, isn't she? Think I read that in Dancebeat....

[Me]

No, no. That's not what I meant at all. They always said that they would apply my current package hours to another plan. The thing that was bugging me was that "moving up" required purchasing a different plan. I assumed that plan would require $3000+ up-front, but that doesn't seem to be the case after all. I guess until I find out the details of what they can offer me, the jury is still out on them . . . . but I have a good feeling about it.

Well, I really think you did a good thing by coming to the DF to ask questions, and I encourage you to continue doing so!

I should have posted this earlier - USA Dance has a very nice page on starting out as a dancer, and as a link from their page to the FTC Guidelines for ballroom dance: http://www.usabda.org/social_dancers/how_to_get_started/index.cfm

Some of the guidelines are rather gloom and doom, and do not in any way describe or represent a majority of ballroom studios, but I do think you should read them. I've pasted them below as well.

Good luck!



Facts for Consumers from the Federal Trade Commission
Dance Studios --November 1992

Although dance lessons may offer opportunities for fun, entertainment, and
companionship, they also may be more expensive than planned, especially if you
do not know how to protect yourself against some dance studio sales practices.

For example, beware of:
Signing long-term contracts and prepaying thousands of dollars for dance
lessons or clubs that you may be unable to complete or cancel;

Signing additional contracts before the current one expires;

Making large prepayments to studios that may be unable to give refunds should
they suddenly close or go bankrupt.

In an effort to make consumers aware of certain sales practices used by some
dance studios, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has prepared this brochure. It
also suggests ways in which you can protect yourself.

Sales Techniques:
If you are thinking about or are already taking dance lessons, you should
understand the sales techniques that some dance studios may use to persuade
you to take lessons, or to take additional lessons.

Relay Salesmanship: Some studio instructors use the technique of relay
salesmanship (consecutive sales talks by more than one representative in a single
day) to try to persuade students to buy lessons or buy more lessons. This tactic
may put you under heavy pressure to sign a contract, encouraging you to buy
lessons you may later realize you do not want or cannot afford.

Overlapping Contracts: Some studio instructors try to convince their students
during lesson time to sign additional contracts before completing the current
lessons. In some instances, you may unwittingly be buying additional lessons that
extend beyond your interest, your physical fitness, or even your life expectancy.

High-pressure Sales: Some studio instructors, using high-pressure sales tactics,
exploit student emotions or personal vulnerabilities to oversell lessons.
Sometimes, when students refuse to buy additional prepaid lessons, instructors
will neglect them in classes, embarrass them in public, or transfer them to a less
skilled instructor.

Precautions:
Awareness about the possible use of these sales techniques can help you avoid
potential problems. In addition, you may avoid some potential problems if you
comparison shop for dance lessons.
Finally, before signing or renewing a contract for dance lessons, consider taking
the following measures.

Pay in advance for only a certain number of lessons to see if you like them. You
may get a discount if you make a large prepayment on a long-term contract, but it
will have little value if later you are unable to take the classes, you want to cancel
them, or the studio closes before your lessons are completed. At this time, only a
few states require studios to post bonds to protect consumers' prepayments.

Insist that the following items are clearly stated in writing:
any oral promises;
the cost per hour of private and group lessons;
your cancellation and refund rights; (These are important in case you change your
mind about lessons, move, or become ill.)
any prepayment protections, if required by state law.

You can ask about these important items when you comparison shop.

Do not sign a contract immediately, especially if you have concerns about the
stability of the studio or are asked to prepay a large amount of money for a
lifetime membership, an exclusive club membership, or dance cruise offer.
Take
time to think about the matter and talk it over with a friend, a family member, or an
attorney.
Even if your contract offers you a refund or cancellation option, you may
be unable to get your money back if the studio closes or its refund check
bounces.
Prepay only as much as you can afford to lose if the studio closes.

As an additional precaution, you might wish to contact your local or state
consumer protection office to learn what rights you may have under local or state
law with regard to maximum costs for contracts, cancellation and refund rights,
studio bonding requirements, and a " cooling off" period, which may give you a
few days to reconsider your decision after you sign your contract. Also, by
contacting your local Better Business Bureau office, you may be able to learn if
there are any current complaints registered against the dance studio you are
considering.

Complaints:
If you have a problem with a dance studio and cannot resolve it, send a letter
describing your complaint to your local or state consumer protection agency and
your local Better Business Bureau. (Check your phone directory for addresses.)
Also, send a copy of your letter to: Correspondence Branch, Federal Trade
Commission, Washington, D.C. 20580. Although the FTC generally cannot
intervene in individual disputes, the information you provide may indicate a
pattern of possible law violations requiring action by the Commission.

[star_gazer]

You mentioned that you went to BYU. Well, they have two great 5-day summer adult ballroom dance camps that are very reasonable. And by summer you'll probably need a break from the twins (been there..done that)

[Statlady]

Oooh, thanks for the suggestion, star_gazer. I didn't know that!

[Statlady]

Me - Thanks so much for posting those guidelines. The one thing I will make sure to do that I might not have thought of is find out what happens if I need to cancel the contract or if the studio goes out of business. Well, the latter isn't important unless I prepay. I told them that I can't pay all at once, but in reality I would be able to pay a few hundred dollars at once if it's cheaper that way (but I won't volunteer that info!). The way it was presented to me the first time was I could make 12 monthly payments of X dollars or I could pay one lump sum of 0.8*12X dollars. It seemed like the former wasn't so much a pay-as-you-go plan as it was an installment plan--meaning you're obligated to make those 12 payments. I'll need to clarify that if I opt to pay monthly. I don't plan to sign a very long contract because 1) I can't afford that and 2) my financial situation should change in about 9 months.

I'm very interested to see what kind of program they come up with. I won't find out until the 7th, though, because I'm going out of town. The "Intermediate Bronze" package is usually 50 or more lessons over a year to a year and a half. Clearly, I won't be doing that. I'm hoping for a very small program of maybe 12-15 lessons. Since I still have 9 lessons left in my current package, I should only have to pay for 3-6 more lessons that way. I figure if I spread that out over 9 months I can probably afford it.

[Firsttime Dancer]

Must chip in here with...Don't look to far down on us "over 40's"...While I understand that is a large age difference to your 29. You might be surprised at how much you could/can learn.

Just my 2 cents. I'll go get my walker now...time for tea ;-) :-)

[Statlady]

I have nothing against becoming friends with people over 40 . . . . It's just harder sometimes. :)

[MissBallroomBear]

My dance instructor is 58 and I love the guy! (Friend love). It's not just because he's a great dancer but also because he's got an absolutely fantastic personality. In my mind, he will always be a teenager.

[Ria]

My dance instructor is also an older guy, 61 to be exact. But he knows so much and he is so enthusiastic. His energy and his passion for dancing makes him seem much younger. I wouldn't want any other instructor to teach me how to dance.

[Ria]

My dance instructor is also an older guy, 61 to be exact. But he knows so much and he is so enthusiastic. His energy and his passion for dancing makes him seem much younger. I wouldn't want any other instructor to teach me how to dance.

[Steve Pastor]

"Really, I just want to dance. Since my husband doesn't dance, it's not like I can just go out dancing with him. It doesn't even have to be ballroom, necessarily, but that seems to be the only form of dance that adults do anymore. I did folk dancing in college, and have found some social folk dance groups, but they usually consist mainly of people over 45, and I'm 29."

Long thread, and I just skimmed for a while. Someone else may have mentioned this. I see Peaches mentioned Argentine Tango at least once.

Here are some other dances adults do: Argentine Tango, West Coast Swing, Salsa, whole bunch of country western stuff, folk dance, Zydeco, Lindy Hop.

Both Argentine tango and country western attract a very wide age group.

I've also taken jazz, mixed with a bit of ballet, and also hip hop. Line dancing is very popular in some locations.

If you go to group classes, you will meet other people who are interested in dance.
If you take jazz, hip hop, or line dancing for instance, you won't need a partner to keep dancing, but will be around ohter people who will probably become friends.

Where you are will have a big influence on what's available, so some of this might not be true where you are. But, the main point is that ballroom is definately not the only dance adults do anymore. (But maybe not where you are.)