How common is bachata?

[rails]

The other night at one of the big clubs in San Francisco the DJ played a bachata song during the band's break. Dozens of couples started busting out bachata moves as though they'd been doing it for years. Frankly, I was surprised considering how little bachata I hear in the clubs. I was wondering how they'd gotten so good when there are almost no classes here. I guess they picked up moves from people who had learned elsewhere or maybe they were just making things up (the way everyone does with merengue).

A pair of instructors, Richard and Maria, had been teaching it Saturday nights at a place called Maiko in Berkeley. I took one of the classes, but I don't think that's still going on. It would be great to learn more of the dance, but there's very little going on around here. I've heard other people express the desire to learn more bachata. Maybe I should suggest to R&M that they organize an all-day bachata workshop or something. I'll bet it'd do well.

How about where you all live? Do you hear much bachata when you go out dancing? Are there classes in your area?

P.S.
The day I learned bachata was symptomatic of what a dance addict I've become lately. I had spent all day at the Frankie Manning workshop weekend - 6 1/2 hours of lindy hop classes. Then I went over to Maiko for an hour's worth of bachata class, then 2 hours dancing salsa before I finally had to call it a night and get some rest.

[Sagitta]

Bachata is played at the Latin nights where I am. There are no classes though. They are a couple useful threads in the forums on this topic...

Name that dance (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2316&highlight=bachata)

and

What is bachata? (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=762&highlight=bachata)

Everything that I have learnt in bachata was self taught. I first learnt to move to the music and then took moves from salsa, swing...everywhere and adapted them to the dance. I personally would never take a lesson in bachata, or merengue. However, if you read the threads you'll find that some people post good reasons for doing so.

[DanceMentor]

And what is the difference between Rumba music and Bachata music. I can't really tell. The studio I work for actually has a Bachata Syllabus :D . Could this be a sign it is getting more popular?

[danceguy]

Hi Rails,

I go out Salsa dancing several times a week and I've only heard Bachata played a few times. Usually only once, maybe twice a night, or sometimes not at all. I think its a very beautiful dance personally, and I really want to learn it. I've never seen lessons Bachata lessons offered in my area, it seems to be one of those dances that you pick up from your friends.

On a side note, which club where you at in SF? I was at one down there this past Friday and the same thing happened, a Bachata came on and the floor was packed with everyone dancing to it, it was really beautiful to watch.

That would be funny if we were at the same club. :wink:

Best,

SG

[youngsta]

I've never seen classes for it. It's a pretty simple dance so making up moves for it is very, very easy. The clubs around here play a bachata once or twice a night.

[DanceMentor]

I've never seen classes for it. It's a pretty simple dance so making up moves for it is very, very easy. The clubs around here play a bachata once or twice a night.

I totally agree. I laughed when I saw it on the syllabus, but maybe it's good for beginning dancers to learn and gain confidence.

[Estella]

I really love bachata... :bouncy:
In Europe it`s getting quite popular now... especially in Italy or Spain.... every 5th song they play is bachata... in Germany unfortunately only 2-3 songs for the whole evening! :cry:

[dancin_feet]

Never heard of it before I joined these forums.

[Estella]

Never heard of it before I joined these forums.
Believe me, you´ve missed a lot!

[youngsta]

For sure! :wink:

[danceguy]

I've got to learn this dance. Next time I'm out, I'm asking the DJ to put one on and I'll find someone to teach me. No more messing around here. :P

[Spitfire]

Too bad bustamove.com does not have a video clip for the Bachata. :(

[Sagitta]

And what is the difference between Rumba music and Bachata music.

Unfortunately I'm not musically talented, but there this ta, ta, ta, ta - what I call the tripping beat -- that almost always is there in bachata and I don't hear it in rhumba. Perhaps someone else can explain the instrument that makes this sound.

[Sagitta]

Never heard of it before I joined these forums.
Believe me, you´ve missed a lot!

I'm late as I had a non-dancing night out with a dancing friend!! :) :wink: But, since you are another bachata lover, I cannot resist. :D Welcome to DF Estella!! :D I'm curious. What are the popular bands, songs for bachata where you are?

[rails]

SG, it was Friday. It was Roccapulco (where else?) I'm sure we were watching the same thing. I think the most bachata one can find around here is at Maiko on Saturday.

I've never seen classes for it. It's a pretty simple dance so making up moves for it is very, very easy.

Well, that's the thing. I don't know how simple it is or how complex it could be. If I didn't know salsa and someone showed me the on 1 basic I'd probably say it looked like a simple dance. That's not true, of course, and I wonder if the same thing could be said of bachata. Maybe there's a world of interesting patterns that they do in the Dominican Republic that I don't know about.

In the drop-in class I took, Rich showed us a traveling outside turn and a spot turn. The traveling outside turn was not like any outside turn I'd done in salsa. I do spot turns in salsa, but the bachata version he showed us had a different feel. We came in very tight to the followers with our right foot and knee between their legs. It was a slower, more sensual turn than I'd been used to in salsa.

As people have said here I can always toss in moves from other dances and make things up, but I tend to get curious about the history and traditions of dances down to the technical level. Looks like I'll be making a return trip to Maiko to ask Rich and Maria about this stuff.

[danceguy]

SG, it was Friday. It was Roccapulco (where else?) I'm sure we were watching the same thing. I think the most bachata one can find around here is at Maiko on Saturday.

Cool, we were at the same place, I figured as much. It was my first time there and I was a little intimidated to say the least...I'm used to the smaller venues in my area but it was a very educational experience. It'll be a while before I go back though...

I was surprised how many people were doing Bachata...most people tend to sit down when one comes on where I go dancing. I'm definitely going to learn it though, it looks like a lot of fun. :P

[youngsta]

Well, that's the thing. I don't know how simple it is or how complex it could be. If I didn't know salsa and someone showed me the on 1 basic I'd probably say it looked like a simple dance. That's not true, of course, and I wonder if the same thing could be said of bachata. Maybe there's a world of interesting patterns that they do in the Dominican Republic that I don't know about.
It's not about the patterns (same can be said about salsa). Bachata is rooted in the Dominican Republic's poorest citzens/sections. It has many unacceptable social features attached to it (illicit sex, seedy brothels, heavy alcohol use). For me it makes the dance simple...very primal. I'm sure somebody could throw a syllabus at it and make formalized moves...but I think that would defeat what it is at the most basic level.

[borikensalsero]

Bachata Rumba...
I'm assuming, DanceMentor, that you mean Bolero by Rumba, not guaguanco, Yambu, nor Columbia.

Bachata will always have the loudest beat be on the one. A big TA followed by slow ta ta ta. The bachata is driven and mainly danced by the bongo. The bongo's most audible slap comes on the 4th beat where oringinally the little hop was done in the dance. In NY City the hop is actually on the 1 instead of the 4, but is also very popular to be done on the 4. When you become proficient you can actually hear the bongo and how its union to other instruments cause you to accentuate either the one or four. So if you ever hear a song, and you don't know if it is a bachata and or a rumba. Try out loudly saing ONE, two, three, four, ONE, two, three, four... Then listen for the bongo hit the 4 with one slap. If you hear all those babies you'll know it most likely is a bachata.

Rumba is like a very very slow salsa. It will have the ta ta ta tata in it just like the clave of a salsa but done to a one measure(bar). The first beat will have the first "ta", the two will have a "ta", the three will have a "ta", and the four will have a double ta (ta..ta). Just like salsa but much slower and not as much a dominant sound. For that matter a rumba will most likely be played by a salsa band, where as bachata won't be. Associate rumba with salsa bands and bachata with merengue bands and that might give you a lead.

Musically speaking, I forget what instruments drive each music. :cry: But once you notice the difference, there is no confusing the two. I'm sure loo can be of much better help that I can on this. Hope that poor example helped.

[borikensalsero]

Here in NY city you can stroll into any non-salsa dance hall and find bachata. It is very popular, in fact there will be more bachata played at a latin club than salsa, that is, if the owners of the place aren't rican.

[Spitfire]

From the descriptions given in another thread Bachata sounds like it is very simple. I don't know if it's done here; I've never heard it mentioned and only seen it listed along with other dances on a flyer for a latin band that plays at a club known as El Parador.

Anytime I've asked about it no one has any familiarity with the dance itself.

[rails]

I'm sure somebody could throw a syllabus at it and make formalized moves...but I think that would defeat what it is at the most basic level.

I'm all for personal creativity out there and I wasn't for a strict set of formalized moves from a ballroom-style syllabus. However, I'd like to remain open to the possibility that there's something to learn from those with a more intimate knowledge of the music and the dance. You know, someone who grew up with it or a dancer/folk scholar who learned from those who grew up with it.

The fact that bachata is, in part, associated with unacceptable social features doesn't make it necessarily simple or primal for me. Tango originated in brothels, but it's very complex and I don't know of any dance whose followers are as passionate about its study.

Bachata's history is different, of course. For example in this article:

http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~pjetax/historias/history_bachata.html

...Before the development of a Dominican redording industry and the spread of the mass media, guitar-based trios and quartets were almost indispensable for a variety of informal recreational events such as Sunday afternoon parties known as pasadías and spontaneous gatherings that took place in back yards, living rooms, or in the street that were known as bachatas...

...According to bachata musicians themselves, it was in the 1970s that the guitar-based music they recorded came to be identified by the term bachata, which by then had lost its more neutral connotation of an informal (if rowdy) backyard party and acquired an unmistakably negative cultural value implying rural backwardness and vulgarity...

Anyway, after writing this I feel like I should become a bachata scholar or something. Not really, but I'm curious to know more--while leaving plenty of room for the spontaneous creativity that dance inspires. And for those who are really good at spontaneous creativity, I'll be stealing moves from you. :wink:

[looyenyeo]

Did I hear my name mentioned?

The current trend in bachata music outside of the Dominican Republic appears to bear a common motif: a “jangly” guitar pattern (eq’ed to sound like that of South African guitar) playing: the rhythm 1, 1+, 1+a, 2, 2+, 3, 3+, 4, 4+; where 1+, 1+a, and 2 are the notes of a broken chord. I can’t make out a master rhythm (clave) direction, and it has a one bar phrase.

This is at odds with Juan Luis Guerra’s interpretation of bachata. However it would not surprise me if the word “bachata” has come to mean different things… Sounds familiar doesn’t it?

For me, bachata is one example of a trend in the evolution of Latin American musics and dances:

Most forms begin as a music and dance of the underclasses – something Youngsta alludes to.

They become popular, championed by the poor, because their themes bear social relevance through the commentary in their lyrics.

Interest in the music and dance percolates upwards through the society strata, despite initial resistance by the governing classes.

Demand increases, generating a commercial market.

Speed and uniformity of supply then become driving factors. The dance and music forms crystallise further, codified to aid: learning/teaching in the former; manufacturing of hits in the latter.

They become formulaic, increasingly practiced by the mid-upper classes, simultaneously becoming less relevant to the underclasses (the very same people who power this particular engine of music).

Another form eventually arises to fill the vacuum, at the underclass level.

Merengue and bachata are cases in point. You can also witness the relevant changes in salsa’s history, although the cycle appears to be extending due to transnationalisation, as a result of our improved global communications.

Back on topic, bachata is slowly gaining structure as demand increases but I don’t think it’s quite solid enough for me to give you a concrete definition. Hence the short syllabus that DanceMentor alludes to - was the syllabus an attempt to get a head-start on the competition in the marketplace?

To answer DanceMentor’s query: I’ve mainly seen it danced on one, with small merengue-like steps; three steps to the bar, with an upward flick of the hip on beat four. The choreography very much resembles that of "standard" merengue (cibaeño).

Deborah Pacini Hernandez writes about it in her book “Bachata: A Social History of a Dominican Popular Music”.

Loo
(skulking back under his rock)

[Spitfire]

Similar to Cumbia?

I was just in touch with a dance instructor I know and this is what he says about the Bachata when I asked him if he was familar with it and had any experience with dancing it.

[borikensalsero]

Similar to Cumbia?

I was just in touch with a dance instructor I know and this is what he says about the Bachata.

Hmmmm... I've never really heard anyone refer to to them as similar. I actually think they are more dis-similar than similar. The beats, in my opinion are nothing alike. Cumbia to me sounds closer to salsa than bachata. Maybe Vallenato, but not really like cumbia.

[Spitfire]

Similar to Cumbia?

I was just in touch with a dance instructor I know and this is what he says about the Bachata.

Hmmmm... I've never really heard anyone refer to to them as similar. I actually think they are more dis-similar than similar. The beats, in my opinion are nothing alike. Cumbia to me sounds closer to salsa than bachata. Maybe Vallenato, but not really like bachata.

And he didn't say if he had ever done it.

I know that it's a different beat so I'm wondering what other comparrison he's making.

[borikensalsero]

Similar to Cumbia?

I was just in touch with a dance instructor I know and this is what he says about the Bachata.

Hmmmm... I've never really heard anyone refer to to them as similar. I actually think they are more dis-similar than similar. The beats, in my opinion are nothing alike. Cumbia to me sounds closer to salsa than bachata. Maybe Vallenato, but not really like bachata.

And he didn't say if he had ever done it.

I know that it's a different beat so I'm wondering what other comparrison he's making.

I'm on the same boat as you... Similarities between bachata and Cumbia. wow, I can't really come up with any similarities except a few sarcastic remarks. ...maybe someone else might be able to tell us better about the comparison your instructor might be making.

[Spitfire]

Similar to Cumbia?

I was just in touch with a dance instructor I know and this is what he says about the Bachata.

Hmmmm... I've never really heard anyone refer to to them as similar. I actually think they are more dis-similar than similar. The beats, in my opinion are nothing alike. Cumbia to me sounds closer to salsa than bachata. Maybe Vallenato, but not really like bachata.

And he didn't say if he had ever done it.

I know that it's a different beat so I'm wondering what other comparrison he's making.

I'm on the same boat as you... Similarities between bachata and Cumbia. wow, I can't really come up with any similarities except a few sarcastic remarks. ...maybe someone else might be able to tell us better about the comparison your instructor might be making.

Come to think of it I'm not familar with Cumbia either.

[Estella]

What are the popular bands, songs for bachata where you are?
Thanks for the welcome! :wink:
The most popular band around here at the moment is "Aventura" (had a big success with "obsession" last year), then "4ever" (this beautiful song "porque te amo"), Monchy y Alexandra.... :roll: there are really a lot of them....
I love dancing bachata... with a right partner! :wink:

[borikensalsero]

What are the popular bands, songs for bachata where you are?
Thanks for the welcome! :wink:
The most popular band around here at the moment is "Aventura" (had a big success with "obsession" last year), then "4ever" (this beautiful song "porque te amo"), Monchy y Alexandra.... :roll: there are really a lot of them....
I love dancing bachata... with a right partner! :wink:


Welcome estella... :D :D

Aventura is huge here in NY City too. They got so over played, every where you turned, went,... Aventura was playing. Los Torros band was popular too..

I look at Bachata like I look at Bolero. It's a slow sensual dance, most of the time I rather see the dance done with minimal turn patterns and more of a close up connection gliding the floor. When done properly it can be quite an intense/fun filled dance.

[youngsta]

Just dance!! :lol:

[Soñador]

I had my salsa course and asked my teacher to give me some private bachata courses... And so he did... So, some of you remember when I told you that I didn't like it that much and etc!? Well, I was completely wrong! I knew only the basic steps and moves of bachata so that's why it wasn't that great... But I learned only a few more it's it's really great! It's nice and smooth, soooooooo sensual, it's a great danse once you have some basics! Anyways, just wanted to say that 'cause I'm amazed by it! :P :wink: :D

[Sagitta]

Cool!! :D Another bachata lover!! :)

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Hmm.... Bachata here in Portugal is starting to become very popular. :D There aren´t really regular classes, but you do have the ocasional workshop. Even though at the salsa clubs they only play 2-3 songs per night, the dance foor usually gets quite full.

[Suaveson]

I love bachata! I think it's a very passionate, romantic dance. Its not that hard to learn but be advised... It's nice to dance with your lady - kind of like a slow dance but a little bit faster. I know a lot of people who enjoy the music but don't know how to dance it - I don't think very many people teach it.

chow

[beppe59bs]

Bachata right now is quite popular in Italy.

There are a lot of dance schools/stages where it is possible to learn it from basic to advanced levels. You can also buy a couple of Italian DVDs/Videos that will teach you how to dance it.
This excitement for bachata started about one year ago (due the huge success of Aventura "Obsession"). Now it is danced in many different ways (in my opinion with too many patterns coming from salsa and tango too - I preferred the old more sensual way!).
Here there are also some dance instructors that will teach you "Bachata on 2"....
Anyway as said here it is almost as popular as salsa: in many clubs (and latin radio programs) you'll hear 6/7 salsa songs, 4/5 bachatas, 1 merengue and so on (almost no cumbia or vallenato except in some places with many latino dancers - mainly Cubans, Dominicans and Colombians dancers).

In the last months some of the most popular bachatas were:
Carta de Verano - Joe Veras
Si te vas - Daniel Moncion
Te extraño - Extreme

Beppe

[Sagitta]

welcome to df beppe59bps. Glad to have you with us. :D Interesting to know that in Italy bachata seems to be almost as popular as salsa. Actually where I am most people just go side to side. Actually drives me crazy!! I don't do that, but I don't cram it full of moves either.

[pelao]

bachata uses the same rhythm in the bongo that salsa and boleros use. its called the martillo rhythm. The bongo and guira mainly carry the tempo, and its also what people are following when they dance. The two guitars and the bass are what bring out the rhythm mostly - when playin these though, the guitars are pretty much right on the beat; its the bass that has a lot of swing.

Cumbia and bachata really don't have much in common at all. If anything, it has more in common with vallenato - that might also be the reason why so many bachateros borrow a lot of vallenatos and turn them into bachatas (which to me is an honor and a compliment - because they think enough of our music to remix it their style). But, the closest would be boleros and bachatas. They have the most in common when it comes to rhythm. But, in melody and the style of singing (or the emotion in the singing) - vallenatos have more in common with bachatas.

looyenyeo:

when you talk about the trend in bachata outside d.r.; what do you mean? Are there any songs you could make an example of?

also, if any of you know this:
i like merengue tipico. but i have this one song from this group, la mafia tipica, o de jose el calvo. this song talks about a gal who doesnt dance 'merengue de acordeon' the right way. So, I started thinkin - how do they really dance it overthere en el cibao? I've seen most people dance it like merengue de orquesta here in the u.s., but to me it feels like it needs more 'meneó'. merengue tipico has so much rhythm and sabor to it, it just doesn't seem to do it justice to dance it so simple the way merengue de orquesta is done.

Its kinda like how cumbia and vallenato is danced a lot, but the real way of dancin it is pretty different.

[ino]

I love bachata! I think it's a very passionate, romantic dance. Its not that hard to learn but be advised... It's nice to dance with your lady


So right...there's nothing like dancing bachata with that special someone. Thats actually how I've met a girl I currently seeing :lol: it's hard to find people who you dance bachata well with and who will follow you right and we just clicked.

[Genesius Redux]

Benvenuto, Beppe! Un poco di tardi! Mi dispiace!

Genesius

[bontyal]

bachata is easy to dance i tell you the basic then you can get better from that ok now no music ok try this first step one two three times to left on the fourth lift your hip now go the right same way do it another time now the same move to the front and then back
thats it now tell someone to play a bachata song for you keep doin it thats it once you get better then you can slide with it

[pygmalion]

How'd I miss this? Welcome to the forums, bontyal! :D

[salsaForfun]

Hmm.... Bachata here in Portugal is starting to become very popular. :D There aren´t really regular classes, but you do have the ocasional workshop. Even though at the salsa clubs they only play 2-3 songs per night, the dance foor usually gets quite full.

In Germany Bachata is also very popular. Here in Frankfurt, you always get in this order (don't ask me why) some salsa, then Merengue and then Bachata and then salsa again. So you have time to look for your favorite Bachata dancer when Merengue is beeing played ... at least I do it. It is rare that I dance more than 2 Merengue in a row but I would do it for Bachata. I do love this dance. One thing is sure; you can only enjoy bachata if both partners can feel it the same way.

[Sagitta]

I think that's true for any dance. If you have a connection you can enjoy it a lot more. As for why bachata is played after merengue, consider that merengue has this underlying beat which can almost be considered 1,2 as you step on it. Bachata transforms this into three steps every 4 beats, and that is one step closer to salsa. I actually prefer when cha cha is also incorporated into the cycle. :)

[bontyal]

i find it weird that german are into latin and other sort of music can somebody tell me where the racist majority of germany live so i dont have to step foot in those towns i always wanted to visit germany but i have some crazy stories of the people there. oh i have a thing for german women :o i think they are cute :shock:

[Sabor]

i find it weird that german are into latin and other sort of music can somebody tell me where the racist majority of germany live so i dont have to step foot in those towns i always wanted to visit germany but i have some crazy stories of the people there. oh i have a thing for german women :o i think they are cute :shock:

many Germans visit Egypt.. and if sampling is anything to go by.. i never seen the slightest trace of racism in any of the many i met.. on the contrary .. they were great company.. plus memebers of my family are married to Germans.. but of course, i am pretty far from knowing the full picture .. however, it always serves to ask and know things about where you are visiting.. just make sure to gather info from various unbiased sources as much as possible b4 forming impressions.. and even then its very possible to find out that u were far from reality.. cause unfortunately, reality is relative.. :wink:

[Sagitta]

I've never experienced problems with people, and I've even met parents from Conservative down South whose daughters warned me that they were such before I went to stay at their place for a few days. Then the daughters tell me after my visits that they were suprised! :? I've went to undergrad at a preppy college where I stuck out like a sore thumb and so I even sometimes got stares as I walked through town, but I never ever experienced any "racist" attitudes. I would be very careful about making blanket negative and potentially inflammatory statements. These usually benefit no-one. And I do not think that these forums are the appropriate place to do so. My 2 cents.

[salsalawyer]

Racists are everywhere.


just enjoy YOUR life!! Leave them to their misery!!


Despite the history, I don`t know if a *racist majority* exist in Germany today.

[Sagitta]

Well said salsalawyer, and bringing us back to the topic of the thread...how common is bachata in your neck of the woods? You never mentioned that!! :o

[bontyal]

bachata not popular here in orlando people are too country here. i just got back for dr i learn a lot of new moves from merengue to bachata too bad i can put them to test till i g :cry: o to ny :(

[Sagitta]

bachata not popular here in orlando people are too country here. i just got back for dr i learn a lot of new moves from merengue to bachata too bad i can put them to test till i g :cry: o to ny :(

This is an oxymoron!! I've heard bachata described as the latin country song. It does have the twang, the guitar, that reminds one of that...or at lesat I also think so! :) While bachata songs are played in Ithaca, NY, they aren't played as often as I would like. :(

[salsalawyer]

bachata is just NOW catching on here!! I noticed thhis year, the DJ started playing it in the clubs and on the radio. :?

[Muazzes]

I am sorry that i am joinin' this topic but i am looking for a bachata song for so long, i think that someone from here can help me.
I heard this song couple of times when i was in DC (on the latin stations of course), and the most specific thing about it was, that there are a woman and a man singing in spanish for 2-3 minutes, the speed is going faster, and after that, there is a english speaking (i guess black guy) who is rhyming for a minute. Afer that the spanish speaking man and gal keep on singing.

I am sorry for being that not-alot-specific, but i hope that someone can help me...10x very much in advance.

[dr-tourist.tv]

I can tell you that NOBODY in the DR takes lessons in Bachata. Bachata is sort of like rap, music from the barrios. I lived in Santo Domingo for 2 years and unfortunately for me dancing is a spectator sport for the most part.. . . .

I would love to learn bachata but there are no lessons down there. I can get any girl to show me how, but they all want to do it at the most crowded of discos. . . .LOL.

I am actually searching for a Dominican Dance instructor that speaks perfect english and would do an instructional video on Bachata and Marengue.

Bachata has now eclipsed merengue as far as popularity in the Dominican Republic.

Me ex girlfriends brother sings in a bachata group and they just did a CD. I plan to shoot some video of his group as well as some live bachata at a real dominican "car wash" as well as some Merengue Tipico at a rancho tipico. I'll post on this forum when I have some examples of Bachata.

If people are following this thread and are wondering what bachata sounds like, amazon lets you hear small samples of songs on many CDs.


amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/104-8612249-0173511?search-type=ss&tag=videoclipsoft-20&keyword=bachata&mode=music

that link has some cool bachata cds etc.

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the Dance Forums dr-tourist.tv! :D

P.S. You may also be interested in our sister site, the Travel Forums (http://www.thetravelforums.com/)

[Sagitta]

Welcome to df dr-tourist.tv!
:)
Looking forward to seeing the real thing. :D

[dr-tourist.tv]

Great, I have checked out the travel forums! What. .. .no Caribbean section?
I would think a salsa guy would want to travel to where it all began. . . . .LOL.

[dr-tourist.tv]

I did find a clip on my website which is not a "real" bachata, in fact it seems more like a Merengue beat with Bachata guitars. It is much faster than the typical bachata. It is s very short clip of street party in Sosua, Dominican Republic. You will get the idea that the people dancing are most certainly self taught.

Dominicans love their music and love to dance. I have only ever met one Dominican that did not love dancing, and since I am a "gringo" and never took adance lesson in my life. . . .I have only met one Dominican guy that I dance better than. . . .LOL. . . .or I should say he dances worse than me!

Of course we were in a "typical" Dominican club in a "barrio". The dance floor was PACKED, no way to do any "moves" it was all about dancing CLOSE!
I can handle that. . . .especially with a cute Domincana dancing with me!

dr-tourist.tv/pages/videopages/sosuastreetparty.html

That clip defaults to broadband. . .but there is a link for people on dialup. . . . .yuk. . .. LOL. I will try and video tape as much bachata and Merengue as I can on my next trip and will post links here!

[SDsalsaguy]

That would be great dr-tourist.tv, thanks! :D

[MacMoto]

I heard this song couple of times when i was in DC (on the latin stations of course), and the most specific thing about it was, that there are a woman and a man singing in spanish for 2-3 minutes, the speed is going faster, and after that, there is a english speaking (i guess black guy) who is rhyming for a minute. Afer that the spanish speaking man and gal keep on singing.
Doesn't ring a bell... then I don't know many bachata songs anyway. Hopefully someone here can help you.

Welcome to DF, Muazzes. :)

[Cist]

I love to dance bachata...it's the rest you need after 5 fast salsa without stopping to dance :twisted: . (though depends whom you are dancing with :roll: )

[Pacion]

Great, I have checked out the travel forums! What. .. .no Caribbean section?
I would think a salsa guy would want to travel to where it all began. . . . .LOL.

:lol: :lol: I must not instigate! I must not instigate!

Welcome to DF dr-tourist.tv! I laugh because I had a kind of conversation with SD along the same lines :wink:

To my knowledge, bachata is not very popular in London. My perception is that there seems to be a resistance among salsa dancers to do anything other than salsa. Cha cha cha is trying to break through but it still has a long way to go - two cha cha cha songs in one night, kind of thing. :roll: I was at a venue recently and the DJ played a bachata. The floor cleared. From what I could tell, there were about four couples who were able to dance it, the others who remained on the dancefloor, proceed to dance salsa moves. :(

I first experienced bachata in Milan where the DJ seemed to be following a pattern - four salsa, four bachata :roll: therefore, if you want to dance, you have to dance bachata :lol: I wanted to dance, was curious and my companion very kindly introduced me to the dance. The next evening, I was dancing it when ever I could :shock: :lol:

This weekend, I danced an absolutely amazing bachata. My partner was wonderful (we have danced salsa together several times before so there was a bit of chemistry there already which helped :wink: ) and he knew how to dance it, didn't need much persuasion on my part (!!!) :lol: and it was, wonderful :banana:

[peachexploration]

So that's where you were. :D I was starting to get worried. DF hasn't seen you for a few days. Glad you're back. :D

[Pacion]

:oops: Actually, not quite to both. Milan was a few weeks ago :D and I am around for a shortwhile tonight but not yet quite back :(

Thanks for missing me :friend:

[borikensalsero]

To my knowledge, bachata is not very popular in London. My perception is that there seems to be a resistance among salsa dancers to do anything other than salsa. I was at a venue recently and the DJ played a bachata. The floor cleared.

Resistance? Hmmm, not resistance, it seems to be the plague! lol

The same happens in NY city, the only Salseros that dance bachata when one comes on are the few Latinos, mainly dominicans that frequent the venues.

[MacMoto]

and I am around for a shortwhile tonight but not yet quite back :(
I assume you are still recovering from the Cuban weekend -- looking forward to your report! :D

[Pacion]

I assume you are still recovering from the Cuban weekend -- looking forward to your report! :D

:nope: I wish! :lol: I was actually very "well behaved" :lol: I didn't have today off from work therefore I came back to London yesterday :( but it was fun, met some really love people. Will submit my report later :wink: :D

[gypsylatina]

I am sorry that i am joinin' this topic but i am looking for a bachata song for so long, i think that someone from here can help me.
I heard this song couple of times when i was in DC (on the latin stations of course), and the most specific thing about it was, that there are a woman and a man singing in spanish for 2-3 minutes, the speed is going faster, and after that, there is a english speaking (i guess black guy) who is rhyming for a minute. Afer that the spanish speaking man and gal keep on singing.

I am sorry for being that not-alot-specific, but i hope that someone can help me...10x very much in advance.

I'm not sure how much this will help... Monchy & Alexandra released a CD titled "The Mix" last year which contains remixes of some of their most popular songs. Most of the songs have been "morphed" into something other than bachata but it would be a place to start. Tower records has 30 sec. samples of the songs on the CD.

On a different note: Spitfire, have you had a chance to try Bachata yet?

I have noticed Bachata is not very popular on the West coast. My family (in NY and Dominican Rep) loves Bachata. I like it better than merengue because it can be listening music as well. It has really evolved... I prefer to dance Salsa but Bachata is fun. You can do so much with it or so little if you prefer :lol:

These are my favorite Bachata artist:
Alex Bueno
Anthony Santos (I love his version of "Pegame Tu Vicio" what a great song)
Los Toros Band
Yoskar Sarante
Joe Veras

[Sagitta]

What about cha cha cha?

[gypsylatina]

The clubs I've been to on the West Coast have played 2 or 3 Cha Cha Cha songs per evening and they've never ever played a Bachata song.

[Sabor]

Bachata.. :P

Hold me close .. so close
Give me a smile .. a little love dose
Look at me .. looking at you
With a hand over my heart .. i see you true
Face to face.. body to body.. soul to soul
i see, feel, hear, smell.. sense only you

so 123 hip... 123 hip
oooh how i could use a tub o'chocolate dip :bouncy:

[Preko]

How about where you all live? Do you hear much bachata when you go out dancing? Are there classes in your area?

In France one or two bachata are played each nigth in the different club. Almost all salsa dancer knows how to dance it. There is on professor in Paris but most of the dancer learn alone.

But in all the party and in all the club there is one kind of dance in addition of salsa that we love in france, it's ZOUK.

[Big10]

oooh how i could use a tub o'chocolate dip :bouncy:
Sounds like you could use a really cold shower, too!!! :P :lol:

[tis me tania]

wow! so as a big (veryyy big!) Bachata dancer...it's amazing to see how much people here dance it and know how to!

(feel free to ignore that, i'm just amazed since so many of my friends can't even pronounce "bachata"!)

[Sagitta]

Welcome. There actually aren't that many people who can do bachata but this is THE DANCE FORUMS after all. :wink: :) Glad to have you and look forward to seeing you around. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the Dance Forums tis me tania! :D

Funny bachata story from the other week... Bachatas almost never get played at my regular salsa club but, the other weekend, my girlfriend asked the DJ to play one and grabbed me for it. After it finished I turned to her and asked how she knew I could even dance a bachata... she gave me one of these looks :shock: and said that she'd just figured I could... :lol:

[danceguy]

Hey...when did you get a girlfriend? Man...take a month off of DF and you miss everything! :eyebrow: :doh:

[SDsalsaguy]

Hate to break it to you SG, but we actually started seeing each other six months ago... :wink:

[MacMoto]

Bachata.. :P

Hold me close .. so close
Give me a smile .. a little love dose
Look at me .. looking at you
Hmm, I NEVER seem to be able to look at my partner when I dance bachata -- too close for eye contact. I usually end up dancing the entire song with eyes closed.

[danceguy]

Guess I'm always the last to know...then again I've kind of been in a fog for the past few months. What year is it again? :lol:

Well its very belated, but congrats! :cheers:

Darn...there goes my ending to the DF Fairyland game then...ack...I don't have the time to finish it anyway! :nope:

[danceguy]

Bachata.. :P

Hold me close .. so close
Give me a smile .. a little love dose
Look at me .. looking at you
Hmm, I NEVER seem to be able to look at my partner when I dance bachata -- too close for eye contact. I usually end up dancing the entire song with eyes closed.

Yes, but that way you can't see the chocolate dip! :lol:

[MacMoto]

Darn...there goes my ending to the DF Fairyland game then...ack...I don't have the time to finish it anyway! :nope:
:( :( :(

Bachata.. :P

Hold me close .. so close
Give me a smile .. a little love dose
Look at me .. looking at you
Hmm, I NEVER seem to be able to look at my partner when I dance bachata -- too close for eye contact. I usually end up dancing the entire song with eyes closed.

Yes, but that way you can't see the chocolate dip! :lol:
Chocolate dips are for tasting, not for visual gratification :nope:

[Dancer150]

can you send me a copy of the Bachata Syllabus and any steps description. I went to Bogota recently and a chica showed me the Bachata dance, so I want to check out your steps.

And what is the difference between Rumba music and Bachata music. I can't really tell. The studio I work for actually has a Bachata Syllabus :D . Could this be a sign it is getting more popular?

[Sagitta]

WElcome dancer150. If a chica showed you to dance then I wouldn't bother with a dance syllabus.

[MacMoto]

can you send me a copy of the Bachata Syllabus
:shock: Is there such a thing as a "bachata syllabus"? I thought bachata was a street dance, even more so than salsa. If there are ballroom studios that are offering bachata syllabuses (like ballroom merengue syllabuses :eyebrow:), I don't think I would want to know anyway... :roll:

Welcome to DF, Stephen. :D

[Salsaonone]

Hmm, I NEVER seem to be able to look at my partner when I dance bachata -- too close for eye contact. I usually end up dancing the entire song with eyes closed.

If you are doing the basic bachata moves (which is all I really know), there is no need to keep your eyes open, in fact, I think bachata danced with eyes closed (as long as you dont run into other people) is a great way to do it, let the other senses fill in....oh, I want to dance bachata now!! :)

[Papichulo]

I love bachata, love to dance it, i'm dominican of course its in my blood! if anyone interested in artist names let me know i can tell you the most popular bachata artists and songs out now :)
anything else ya'll wanna know about bachata feel free to ask.

[Sagitta]

I love bachata, love to dance it, i'm dominican of course its in my blood! if anyone interested in artist names let me know i can tell you the most popular bachata artists and songs out now :)
anything else ya'll wanna know about bachata feel free to ask.

Cool. So what are they? And welcome to df. :)

[Dancer150]

I am interested if anyone has bachata dance steps because even though it started as a street dance like many other ballroom dances, having some of the basic steps allows you teach others and that is how the dance will grow in popularity in America. I went to Bogota and the DJ's girlfriend danced bachata with me so it was fun and but I also added latin hip motion and cucharachas into that I learned from international ballroom rumba to give it style. Maybe she learned something new also. Then recently at a Fred Astaire studio, they showed everyone a basic bachata dance step and it was different than the Bogota style, so that is my point, with an organized basic dance syllabus, at least everyone can learn the correct basic bachata Latin style. From there you can add improvisational steps to personalize it. For example, would you agree that the basic steps could be described as: man- leading with hips in closed position, side steps to left, L1, R2, L3 ending with left hip raised on "+" ("and), then side steps right in same motion. Just when you thought this was a street dance, Joe Baker is offering a dvd course on bachata. Here is a web link to see the video sample - http://www.thedancestoreonline.com/learning-center/bachata.htmTell me if you agree with the basic step movement because his video is the way I was taught in Bogota. Can someone here write out a description of the basic bachata steps because I am curious if they compare to what I learned in Bogota, Colombia or maybe they are different between eacjh person? I agree even with learning basic steps, Bachata must convey the emotions.

[Dancer150]

Here is the new web link to the bachata video and other dances - http://www.thedancestoreonline.com/ballroom-dance-instruction/index.htm

[Sagitta]

I guess that is fine. I have been taught that there isn't as much movement, side-to side as is shown. One can move in many different ways.

[Gentemer]

I just took a look at the clip, but ... eh... don't know how to put this politely.
Yes, technically, it is a bachata. More specific, it is a technical bachata. The sensuality is completely taken out of it.

My definition of Bachata is a bit closer to what is shown on the clips on Freya's website: http://www.pasionlatina.co.il/videos/Advanced%20-%20BACHATA%20-%20corso.mpg
You should at least have a look at those as well :-)

[Pebbles]

Hmm my first reaction would be to run away from any place that tries to teach bachata from a syllabus. It sounds like you want to fit the dance into the ballroom mode, but why? If you dance bachata with ballroom hip motions and the works, it becomes a new ballroom dance, and I’m afraid you’ll lose the essence of bachata. It's not about syllabus figures or ballroom hip motions. You might find it helpful to take a lesson with a teacher who grew up with the dance, I think you’ll find even the “basic step” as you defined is different.

[borikensalsero]

I just took a look at the clip, but ... eh... don't know how to put this politely.
Yes, technically, it is a bachata. More specific, it is a technical bachata. The sensuality is completely taken out of it.

I know an absolutely wonderful dancer, her one problem is that she can't break out of the technical world, she has come a long way in 3 months of which now finally understands that Salsa is from the heart and soul, but when we dance bachata, she forgets it and goes back to technical. Boy one of the best dancers I've seen goes right into one of the worst in a simple one, two, three, hip of bachata. There is just no sensuality, no emotion, no listening to the music, there is just 1,2,3,4 toe out, weight shifting and starting a move only on the 1, God, if I find her instructor imma choke him!

I can't stand it when the technical side of a dance is taught leaving unexplained philosophical ideals buried within every rule that kills the dancer before ever taking a step. :cry:

[Kindra]

I can't stand it when the technical side of a dance is taught leaving unexplained philosophical ideals buried within every rule that kills the dancer before ever taking a step.

Coming from the technical ballroom world....You just put into words the feelings I've always had about the restrictions I've put on my own dancing...which is why that world doesn't suite my needs anymore.

Dancing is the best way I know how to express myself and celebrate life...I'm learning how to take those rules (which help me adapt to many different forms of dance) and twist and bend them in all different ways.

The more I get out and "social" dance...the more I discover about myself as a dancer. Which leads me to say this...please have patience with us "recovering ballroomers". :D :lol:

[Sabor]

its the dancer not the dance.. ballroom is fine.. technicality is fine.. its how u use it that makes or breaks the picture to a viewer.. so taste/perception goes into the equation as well.. and USING the technique ..it depends on how much of a natural artist u are.. talent / technique mix needs adjustment to arrive at equilibrium.. the less talent u start with the more work needs to be done and the longer the time.. and vice versa..
+
alot of people dance .. but few are dancers .. always was so.. and always will be.. but that dont mean u cant try.. cause all u can do is gain..relatively ofcourse.. so why not.

[tj]

its the dancer not the dance.. ballroom is fine.. technicality is fine.. its how u use it that makes or breaks the picture to a viewer.. so taste/perception goes into the equation as well.. and USING the technique ..it depends on how much of a natural artist u are.. talent / technique mix needs adjustment to arrive at equilibrium.. the less talent u start with the more work needs to be done and the longer the time.. and vice versa..
+
alot of people dance .. but few are dancers .. always was so.. and always will be.. but that dont mean u cant try.. cause all u can do is gain..relatively ofcourse.. so why not.

:notworth: :notworth: :applause: :applause:

[Salsaonone]

I just took a look at the clip, but ... eh... don't know how to put this politely.
Yes, technically, it is a bachata. More specific, it is a technical bachata. The sensuality is completely taken out of it.

My definition of Bachata is a bit closer to what is shown on the clips on Freya's website: http://www.pasionlatina.co.il/videos/Advanced%20-%20BACHATA%20-%20corso.mpg
You should at least have a look at those as well :-)

I think the basic step of bachata leans itself to a sensual feeling. However, Alot of poeple I talk to are amazed that there are actually more steps in bachata than the basic...Its hard to find an intstructor, at least here, who will show(maybe even know) more than the basic step and maybe the woman's inside turn, and then back out with the inside turn the other direction, and maybe the same for the man....Most salsa dance classes focus on salsa, merengue, cha cha, and for some reason a little rumba, which is NEVER played at any salsa clubs I go to....maybe at a ballroom..but not salsa club...perhaps they should take out the little rumba they do and put in Bachata, if they are trying to emulate the dance scene and not the comptetition scene.... It is easy (me included!!) to really enjoy that sensual connection that the basic provides on a good dance, and there is nothing wrong with that! Yet, I am constantly asking the few (one) instructor who knows more moves than the basic and asking him to show me one at a time...its amazing how many women after I dance bachata with them tell me that it was the first time they did anything more than the basics for the entire dance....and my step list is still small.... :wink:

[tj]

I just took a look at the clip, but ... eh... don't know how to put this politely.
Yes, technically, it is a bachata. More specific, it is a technical bachata. The sensuality is completely taken out of it.

My definition of Bachata is a bit closer to what is shown on the clips on Freya's website: http://www.pasionlatina.co.il/videos/Advanced%20-%20BACHATA%20-%20corso.mpg
You should at least have a look at those as well :-)
....and my step list is still small.... :wink:

All right, here's one thing you can do... you know all of your salsa repertoire can be changed into bachata steps simply by replacing the "tap step on 4 and 8" with the bachata hip thingy, right?

[borikensalsero]

The more I get out and "social" dance...the more I discover about myself as a dancer. Which leads me to say this...please have patience with us "recovering ballroomers". :D :lol:

LOL... indeed, I am more "disillusioned" with the instructors than I am of the students, which then become instructors, which probably means I'm "annoyed" at everyone... hehe... Just kidding!!

I think we all take different approaches to life, one isn't any better than the other, the key is to realize what is happening, and changing it before we truly believe we are driving when we are merely stirring in the direction we are told. Kind of like Karma, if we aren't aware that we can change the underlying principles of the what, when, where, why, and how of our thought process, then we must go through despair and learn the hard way. However, if we catch the problem at its source then we can kick karma to the side...

The issue arises in finding out what unconscious/subconscious/conscious ethos control every thought we have, likely stating that we will all, until otherwise learned, deem a driver’s license proof of ability to drive/think, just as a young man deems himself educated from a college degree. We fail to realize that all we consciously are is that which we are taught to be, hence, a passenger of society taught to think of that driver’s license as the key to individuality and realms of all that is, never searching past that where there are no roads for what has been taught doesn’t enable a search where there aren’t any roads, as a driver’s license states: there are rules to follow, otherwise, you will no longer be a driver… all of it pointing to a follower with the deemed ability to freely think because he is a good follower. The great individual, he who follows! ironic...

Go figure… to me that is the issue with dancing, we are taught to be individuals as long as we follow, following never creates a leader! To be an individual we must break out of what we are taught and create our own road, even in face of ridicule, for to be the self, we can’t follow what our master’s search is. If we follow our teacher all we’ll ever be is, at best, a copy of our teacher… When I speak of follow it is philosophical ideas creating thought that I speak of not bodies in motion, for to make a left we must all stir left...

Good for you, go out there and shake it like only you can!

[Kindra]

We fail to realize that all we consciously are is that which we are taught to be

Overwhelmingly true....Yet one who IS consciuos, has the ability to see that which they are taught..and when couragious enough, capable of changing that reality.


If we follow our teacher all we’ll ever be is, at best, a copy of our teacher

For some...that is their best. Some are only meant to follow.

Good for you, go out there and shake it like only you can!

I intend to do just that! :wink:


p.s. You do have a great way with words...I've enjoyed reading your posts.

[cierre boca y baile]

My definition of Bachata is a bit closer to what is shown on the clips on Freya's website: http://www.pasionlatina.co.il/videos/Advanced%20-%20BACHATA%20-%20corso.mpg
You should at least have a look at those as well :-)

I love this video...I sometimes lead the whole routine, sometimes
break it up. The "in place 4 count hip lift" gets lots of comments :D

Can someone please tell me the song playing? I have yet to find it or hear it outside of this clip.

My only comment on the other clip...there is way to much space between the leader and follower :lol:

[Salsaonone]

All right, here's one thing you can do... you know all of your salsa repertoire can be changed into bachata steps simply by replacing the "tap step on 4 and 8" with the bachata hip thingy, right?

Well, actually, I have not crossed that bridge yet, but now I will!! :lol: :lol:

In fact, what works really well in bachata are some moves I learned originally in Rhythm two step (aka arizona two step) which is country. Finally sometime useful to me came out of that genre.. :wink:

[Salsaonone]

Go figure… to me that is the issue with dancing, we are taught to be individuals as long as we follow, following never creates a leader! To be an individual we must break out of what we are taught and create our own road, even in face of ridicule, for to be the self, we can’t follow what our master’s search is. If we follow our teacher all we’ll ever be is, at best, a copy of our teacher… When I speak of follow it is philosophical ideas creating thought that I speak of not bodies in motion, for to make a left we must all stir left...


First, very few can venture down any road that is not shown to them by someone who has already been down that road. That is what teaching is all about...Showing them what road they can take, but the teacher does not take that road for them (the student), the student goes down that road, and perhaps will some help starts to travel down that road on his/her road in his/her own unique way. At first, the student is awed by the road and can only see glimpses of the road right beneath their very feet, and some decide to turn back and take a different road. Others venture further...everyone to a different degree, but without a teacher to show the possibilities, the student cannot find their own steps down the road..once confident, the student lets go of the teachers hand and starts exploring on their own....creating their own path....but any student or teacher who thinks they did it all by themselves is lying to everyone including themselves...so find comfort in conformity until you are ready to find your own path down the same road, and most teachers are still learning at some level as well...and most are happy to give their own opinion of advice if you ever want to ask...Normally, after you start out, you will find things you like and find other teachers who can take you closer to you goals than your previous teachers, and you segway to that path....when you stop learning, you stop living.

[borikensalsero]

First, very few can venture down any road that is not shown to them by someone who has already been down that road.

That is my point, if very few can, it means that everyone can, but our negative thinking limits us. Why is that? What separates them? That is what I mean by teaching, not showing the why and how, but teaching others how to find their own why and how with limited knowledge.

but without a teacher to show the possibilities, the student cannot find their own steps down the road..once confident, the student lets go of the teachers hand and starts exploring on their own...

Had a teacher’s job been to show what road to take there would be no difference in opinion, or knowledge, or new discoveries, nor the fruit of new philosophical ideas, as we couldn’t possibly learn above that which we aren’t taught. We would simply be speaking and doing variations of that which is already present, not really anything new, hence, impossible to create our own path. How can a student create his or her own path when the teacher has taught what path to take? Teaching what road to take is as bad as taking the road for them. For what the teacher needs to do is give them the tools to build their own road. For using what the teacher shows the student will never be more than the sum of taught knowledge, in other words, a follower. To create a new path the student can’t follow the world of taught possibilities, rather create new roads and come back to the teacher with yet another possibility the teacher never knew existed. Note that by learning the bible I will never fathom the reality of Buddhism, how is that relevant? I want for a person to become more that what he has been taught, for I can’t look to the bible to prove the bible and live more than what the bible teaches. The point is that it isn’t what we are taught but how we can become more than what we are taught. How can I learn to teach and not teach a student to follow? How can I learn more Salsa from only been taught the basic, the self is the answer, not Frankie Martinez, but me!

Conformity will never teach anything but conformity, seeking for answers down the same path can only yield already conceived answers, it will teach nothing about the person except that which has already been laid for the person to learn. How would a Buddhist know that he likes Christianity if all the roads he takes lead to Buddhism? How can an instructor teach me to be me when all he has taught is how to dance like him? How will a budhist ever learn of Christianity if all the teachings yield but Buddhism? This is where your argument seemingly leads; to find that which we already know. Do not allow society to throw clues as to where to go, instead seek for those clues outside of what is taught. Learn advance patterns your teacher doesn’t know just by looking within.

I do not disagree with your views, I find them necessary for many, and in fact a reality that states to get to “B” I must pass through “A”, yet that is far from my point… I don’t care about getting to “B”, but rather what I’ve learned about me, and my relation between “A” and “B”. There is no answer to that, there is no teaching in action for it, there are just ideals learned, not taught but learned, which are meant to break everything we know to enable the creation of our own path between “A” and “B”. Your point is well taken SalsaOnOne; It just see too linear.

My dance instructor used to say, I’m not here to teach how to dance, I’m not hear to teach you steps, all my teaching won’t do a thing if you can’t be yourself, for you’ll be nothing more than me. All I’ll ever do is make you realize that you don’t need me. For here I understood that she wasn’t referring to the teaching of steps, but a philosophy to become myself on the dance floor.

Philosophy over steps, she taught me that a step well thrown isn’t one with perfect technique but rather one that goes beyond technique, beyond what technique? To where? Well, that is where she hopes I can figure out, for my failure to be myself and find my own answer will represent her failure as a teacher, even when she has given me every tool to succeed, for she failed to teach me that my learning is nothing if I can’t break her rules and be me. So, if she seems me dancing and sees herself in me, she’ll know she has miserably failed! For she’ll know that I never learned anything but how to follow her eloquence on the dance floor, yet saw my results in a great dancer as being my own self, when all I’ve become is her, and thought to myself to be living my own path. I learned how to get from “A” to “B” and beyond in my, thought to be own way, but found nothing between “A” and “B” that made me;ME.

What I deem own path hasn't to do with what we are taught, but where we can go that we aren't supposed to because of lack of knowledge; GROWTH without ever been taught... The worth of knowledge is to use it to become more, not spew it out like a library.

[Salsaonone]

That is my point, if very few can, it means that everyone can, but our negative thinking limits us. Why is that? What separates them? That is what I mean by teaching, not showing the why and how, but teaching others how to find their own why and how with limited knowledge.

I would venture that Great masters, unique in their fields, begin by studying the masters of thier past, and then putting their own stamp on things. How do you learn Iambic Pentamter (for example) if it is never shown to you? A positive attidude, or at least a non-negative attitude, I agree, is essential to any growth in anything.


Had a teacher’s job been to show what road to take there would be no difference in opinion, or knowledge, or new discoveries, nor the fruit of new philosophical ideas, as we couldn’t possibly learn above that which we aren’t taught. We would simply be speaking and doing variations of that which is already present, not really anything new, hence, impossible to create our own path. How can a student create his or her own path when the teacher has taught what path to take? Teaching what road to take is as bad as taking the road for them. For what the teacher needs to do is give them the tools to build their own road. For using what the teacher shows the student will never be more than the sum of taught knowledge, in other words, a follower. To create a new path the student can’t follow the world of taught possibilities, rather create new roads and come back to the teacher with yet another possibility the teacher never knew existed. Note that by learning the bible I will never fathom the reality of Buddhism, how is that relevant? I want for a person to become more that what he has been taught, for I can’t look to the bible to prove the bible and live more than what the bible teaches. The point is that it isn’t what we are taught but how we can become more than what we are taught. How can I learn to teach and not teach a student to follow? How can I learn more Salsa from only been taught the basic, the self is the answer, not Frankie Martinez, but me!

I think you are underestimating the creativity of the human mind. New ideas come from seeing older ideas and seeing a better way, but those old ideas have to be looked at to spark the mind into seeing better possibilities. How does someone improve something in a field they have never experienced? How do they know it even exists? "I wish I had a fork that did x,y, and z" perhaps x,y,z didnt exist before, but the fork did. If someone looks at a bible for knowledge, perhaps they will also see that there are other forms of religion and other books to read. Still, someone might say one day "the bible says this, I wonder what the Koran says about it"...and then they look. Curiosity killed more than the cat....but it is up to the individual to decide if they want to look for more or not...are you going to force people to look outside the box? I think the more solid foundation the person has in something, the better it is to leap off of it. In salsa dancing, trying new moves that I think of and not part of a teacher's step list (something small even), comes only after feeling comfortable with my basic steps and all the practice to make me feel ok with it...if you isolated someone in a room, with no knowledge of salsa dance, do you think they would spontaneously start salsa dancing? Or would it take someone who already was shown a few steps to do that? (I do it all the time, isolated or not..hehe). Anyway, I think you need instruction and a certain level of accomplishment before your mind allows you to think about other things. Which could be amazing, but only after learning the comformity of the field.


Conformity will never teach anything but conformity, seeking for answers down the same path can only yield already conceived answers, it will teach nothing about the person except that which has already been laid for the person to learn. How would a Buddhist know that he likes Christianity if all the roads he takes lead to Buddhism? How can an instructor teach me to be me when all he has taught is how to dance like him? How will a budhist ever learn of Christianity if all the teachings yield but Buddhism? This is where your argument seemingly leads; to find that which we already know. Do not allow society to throw clues as to where to go, instead seek for those clues outside of what is taught. Learn advance patterns your teacher doesn’t know just by looking within.

Well I respectfully disagreed above on the conformity thing, but how would a buddhist know anything about christianity or visa versa? They have to have internal motivation to seek those views. But then you are just jumping from one conformity to another. I truely believe that there is no way a beginner salsa dancer, engineer, rocket scientist, teacher, farmer, whatever, can be innovative and original without learning the comformity of that field first. Then once that is learned, they can go off and do their own thing if they get inspiration to do so.

I do not disagree with your views, I find them necessary for many, and in fact a reality that states to get to “B” I must pass through “A”, yet that is far from my point… I don’t care about getting to “B”, but rather what I’ve learned about me, and my relation between “A” and “B”. There is no answer to that, there is no teaching in action for it, there are just ideals learned, not taught but learned, which are meant to break everything we know to enable the creation of our own path between “A” and “B”. Your point is well taken SalsaOnOne; It just see too linear.


Linear? Well I am a math instructor. :) :)
Not to sound too repetitive, repetitive, repetive, etc....in order to break away from conformity, you must study it first, use it, make it yours, and then jump off to whatever non-linear tangent your mind can fathom.


My dance instructor used to say, I’m not here to teach how to dance, I’m not hear to teach you steps, all my teaching won’t do a thing if you can’t be yourself, for you’ll be nothing more than me. All I’ll ever do is make you realize that you don’t need me. For here I understood that she wasn’t referring to the teaching of steps, but a philosophy to become myself on the dance floor.

Philosophy over steps, she taught me that a step well thrown isn’t one with perfect technique but rather one that goes beyond technique, beyond what technique? To where? Well, that is where she hopes I can figure out, for my failure to be myself and find my own answer will represent her failure as a teacher, even when she has given me every tool to succeed, for she failed to teach me that my learning is nothing if I can’t break her rules and be me. So, if she seems me dancing and sees herself in me, she’ll know she has miserably failed! For she’ll know that I never learned anything but how to follow her eloquence on the dance floor, yet saw my results in a great dancer as being my own self, when all I’ve become is her, and thought to myself to be living my own path. I learned how to get from “A” to “B” and beyond in my, thought to be own way, but found nothing between “A” and “B” that made me;ME.

What I deem own path hasn't to do with what we are taught, but where we can go that we aren't supposed to because of lack of knowledge; GROWTH without ever been taught... The worth of knowledge is to use it to become more, not spew it out like a library.

I'm sure your dance instructor wants you to be original and yourself and not her, but does she really expect that from beginners? You need technique and steps and whatnot and alot of practice before you jump out on your own...There are always genius learners of one field or another, but they learn from the past...and yes, finding things on your own and being original are not the same...but I think all in all, people should dance to have fun and enjoy themselves way above and beyond how they learned how to dance.

[borikensalsero]

I do not disagree that teaching is needed, my issue with learning is that we don't teach how to use knowledge but rather spew it, creating followers... Many have theory, even less can apply it.


I would venture that Great masters, unique in their fields, begin by studying the masters of thier past, and then putting their own stamp on things. How do you learn Iambic Pentamter (for example) if it is never shown to you? A positive attidude, or at least a non-negative attitude, I agree, is essential to any growth in anything.
It wasn’t their studies that got them there, but rather the person's ability to use the relatively little they knew to discover the "impossible". For if the teachings of a master was what made those people great, then everyone who studied under the same master would have been great, and that isn’t the case.

Had Galileo followed his “master’s” teachings he would have never came up with the heliocentric version of the universe as he was taught that it was egocentric. How could he have built “his own stamp” of the heliocentric model when he was taught egocentric? Galileo broke out of what he was taught, used his understanding of thought and the breaking of the very rules he was taught and surpassed his knowledge… that is what I allude to in too many words. There is no choice but to build from what already is, it is the normal progression of nature, however, not everyone builds more than what they know. Why? The answer isn’t found in teachings, but the self.


I think you are underestimating the creativity of the human mind.
Had I been underestimating the human mind, I wouldn’t think we could all be more than we are.


New ideas come from seeing older ideas and seeing a better way, but those old ideas have to be looked at to spark the mind into seeing better possibilities. How does someone improve something in a field they have never experienced? How do they know it even exists? "I wish I had a fork that did x,y, and z" perhaps x,y,z didnt exist before, but the fork did. If someone looks at a bible for knowledge, perhaps they will also see that there are other forms of religion and other books to read.

Look a bit deeper into those very words and see what I mean, it isn’t that someone uses ideas to discover something, but what causes the person to make that discovery? What caused the spark? It sure wasn’t the fork, but the person’s ability to see past the fork… That is what I see as true knowledge, not the cumulative process of what is taught to the person, but the person’s ability to see past it. I could careless who discovered what, what I’m truly interested in is the knowledge that a person is able to put together from what is present and discover something that wasn’t. As it is obvious that it wasn’t knowledge that did it but the person’s ability to see past it! Otherwise, all of us that are taught from the finest of masters would all come up with unique discoveries, yet we don’t, even worse, why didn't the master if he, himself had the knowledge to. why? Just like not everyone that learns from Frankie dances as great as he does. Why? That is the knowledge I speak of, one of the mind, not one of teaching, but the mind, the ability of the mind to see past what its taught. For, if I was to follow the logic your argument presents, it would mean that everyone that has the same knowledge is to create greatness, yet it doesn’t happen that way. For, that very knowledge limits us.


.but it is up to the individual to decide if they want to look for more or not...are you going to force people to look outside the box? I think the more solid foundation the person has in something, the better it is to leap off of it.
Sadly the individual is only responsible for looking further up to a conscious level, it is a societal responsibility to create a mass consciousness that enables that search. For example, if it was up to the individual to look further, then a society that is Christian wouldn’t delve into more Christianity looking for answers, but they do, in fact they disclaim everything outside it as a hoax. Society unconsciously teaches ethos used to think, if we don’t know the basis of those ethos, there is no way in the world a person can break out of that rationale, unless they can see past what they know, that is knowledge to me. Not what the teacher taught me, but how I molded what I knew, broke into piceses and came back with, as you mentioned, the idea that not only there has to be more religions, even further know, that all religions have their own valid God no less in equality and power as the one I have. For we all know that even when a religion acknowledges other Gods, the "all might" is their own God; that is conformity. Had conformity helped the individual, he wouldn’t say there is only one god, but many just as valid as his. Yet, it is a human fact that a person who doesn’t have the ability to break out of conformity/current knowledge will never be more than a conformist and seek for answers within all that he has been taught never really achieving anything but that which already is.


Anyway, I think you need instruction and a certain level of accomplishment before your mind allows you to think about other things. Which could be amazing, but only after learning the comformity of the field.
I do not argue against instruction, what I argue against is using that instruction to allow the self to be all it can be, for the very essence of using all we know, to be all we can be, is a limit, and the sings of a follower. We must use all we have to be more than what society deems us to be. Kind of like having million dollars, you will never have more if you don’t invest it, but if you do, then you have created more than what you had. But if I keep saving my million in a box they’ll never be more than a million, that is what conformity does, In an analogy, you assets progress to a million dollars (knowledge) in a box(conformity), where as it should be seen as an investment of that million to generate more, and that investment has to break out of conformity/box, for if it doesn’t it will always stay in the box. Conformity isn’t what leads a person to more, but rather that spark that hasn’t the slightest to do with taught knowledge. Note that conformity isn't so unless it is lived, I can learn buddhism and not lead it, hence never being a conformist of that religion, therefore, how can I break out of buddhism if I've never been in it? Conformity has to be lead before it can be attriuted as a lifestyle or train of thought.

Note that I’m not looking at conformity as knowledge to live within it, as a framer to farm or ability to do so, but the absence of what a person isn't (conformist) and the framer that learns the same as others yet creates a plow to help him farm. Others conformed by taught standards, one didn’t steped out of the box. The stepping out and the idea to do so, regardless of where it comes from is true knowledge, out of knowledge that said this is all you can possibly know, something more came from it. knowledge...


Linear? Well I am a math instructor. :) :)
Not to sound too repetitive, repetitive, repetive, etc....in order to break away from conformity, you must study it first, use it, make it yours, and then jump off to whatever non-linear tangent your mind can fathom.
we can’t break out of conformity by studying it, unless we aren’t living it, if I study math and use that conformity I will never be more than a mathematician, the jump and what is learned from the jump is what I deem knowledge, and refer to. The ability to break off it and what causes it, how we grabbed conformity and broke it, now creating a different reality. my emphasis is not stored knowledge but the ability to think past it, as well as with limits off... basically solving a calculus question when all you've been taught is to add, merely by using math as building blocks to knoweldge, rather than the limit as to why it can't be solved.


I'm sure your dance instructor wants you to be original and yourself and not her, but does she really expect that from beginners? You need technique and steps and whatnot and alot of practice before you jump out on your own...
I do not disagree with you by any means, but I don’t speak of technique, nor steps but the mind. The underlying philosophical ideas of creating the step, that is what causes us to look different, not what we are taught, but how we use what we are taught to create our person. And that is exactly what she expects, not to see a dancer print back to her, taught skills, but the philosophy applied to those steps that creates the dancer. So, yes she expects it from every beginner, for neither she or I are speak of steps, or accumulation of knoweldge/skill, but the use of it to be more than you are...

Did that sound like bachata or what??? 1,2,3 hip... what's that groups name? Aventura, yeap, there was aventura all over this post. :D

[Lockstep]

wow. let me wait with rereading this post until im fully awake tomorrow again and can appreciate it in all its magnificence

[peachexploration]

......Did that sound like bachata or what??? 1,2,3 hip... what's that groups name? Aventura, yeap, there was aventura all over this post. :D

:lol: :lol:

[Salsaonone]

Did that sound like bachata or what??? 1,2,3 hip... what's that groups name? Aventura, yeap, there was aventura all over this post. :D

Well, this is page 7 or 8...so I think (IMHO) its ok :lol: ...I usually tend to shy away from discussions this long already...hehe.....

So here is a quick(in relative terms) reply:

A person who can do what you ask is the exception and not the rule (probably why you are upset about it) and it has minimally to do with conformity and more with something in the brain called Genius. How many true masters are there, or have there been? what ratio is it to them vs the rest of human population. Who invented the wheel?? Who created, on purpose, the first fire pit? Who made the first alcoholic beverage?? Very few people on the list compared to everyone who ever lived. They are the exception, not the rule, and I think the reason go way beyond conformity, or perhaps way below, on a level of simple (which is complex actually) brain activity. You can't blame people for being who they are, if that is who they are...know what I mean? But, being able to create new fields or discover something is not a measure of self worth or goodness or badness, it is almost a chaotic chance that you as an individual are able to see something that no one before you has. Most are not motivated to look, and even those who are does not mean that they will find something. There is a story about Johan (sp?) Gauss (famous mathematician) who was a true genius and created alot of math stuff that we still use today..anyway, the story goes that he would go to parties and only speak to people who were as smart as he was...of course, NO one was as smart as he was, so he never spoke to anyone...I feel sorry for him...1,2,3,tap hip...1,2,3 tap hip... :wink:

[Papichulo]

I love bachata, love to dance it, i'm dominican of course its in my blood! if anyone interested in artist names let me know i can tell you the most popular bachata artists and songs out now :)
anything else ya'll wanna know about bachata feel free to ask.

Cool. So what are they? And welcome to df. :)


The most popular artist now is Aventura, but there's a lot more like Frank Reyes, Anthony Santos, and Monchy y Alexandra (even more popular) also Los Toros Band play some bachatas. Alex Bueno is also good too. I' recommend Aventura "Love & Hate" Album its nice :)

[peachexploration]

Hi Papichulo! Welcome to Dance Forums. Happy to have you here! :)

[borikensalsero]

Well, this is page 7 or 8...so I think (IMHO) its ok :lol: ...I usually tend to shy away from discussions this long already...hehe.....

So here is a quick(in relative terms) reply:

A person who can do what you ask is the exception and not the rule (probably why you are upset about it) and it has minimally to do with conformity and more with something in the brain called Genius. How many true masters are there, or have there been? what ratio is it to them vs the rest of human population. Who invented the wheel?? Who created, on purpose, the first fire pit? Who made the first alcoholic beverage?? Very few people on the list compared to everyone who ever lived. They are the exception, not the rule, and I think the reason go way beyond conformity, or perhaps way below, on a level of simple (which is complex actually) brain activity. You can't blame people for being who they are, if that is who they are...know what I mean? But, being able to create new fields or discover something is not a measure of self worth or goodness or badness, it is almost a chaotic chance that you as an individual are able to see something that no one before you has. Most are not motivated to look, and even those who are does not mean that they will find something. There is a story about Johan (sp?) Gauss (famous mathematician) who was a true genius and created alot of math stuff that we still use today..anyway, the story goes that he would go to parties and only speak to people who were as smart as he was...of course, NO one was as smart as he was, so he never spoke to anyone...I feel sorry for him...1,2,3,tap hip...1,2,3 tap hip... :wink:

Indeed, I'll never argue those points, nor blame people for who they are, for that isn't of my concern, nor the objective of my previous posts, rather the teaching of a philosophy that encourages the "genius" from each member of the norm. Instead of stating that a person can't, because her or she isn't or hasn't the knowledge of, for if one individual is able, all are surely capable to be geniuses their own way without ever creating anything new, just simply seeing what is there but not seen... We are simply using knowledge to bottle it…

Which means the mass is the norm because it isn't equipped by society to be the exception, where as new ideas can turn the exception into the norm, and my entire point on knowledge, to be more than we are told to be... Have the exception become the norm, don’t use a lack of knowledge as a limit to what can be done... We can all be Gauss! There need be no new creation to be deemed important but rather the knowledge of the self and what we are, all geniuses!

Society, nor a person's inability to see past their noses will ever lead me to think that they can't become geniuses... for I know we all can dance like no body is watching, well, except for bachata, oops, did I say that out loud?

Thank you for fancying my wondering mind SalsaOnOne, it is always of out most joy to share perspectives on the world. If you ever have more perspective, and noone to listen you are more than welcome to contact me. :D

[Salsaonone]

I love bachata, love to dance it, i'm dominican of course its in my blood! if anyone interested in artist names let me know i can tell you the most popular bachata artists and songs out now :)
anything else ya'll wanna know about bachata feel free to ask.


I am always eager to learn new bachata moves...any clips with moves are always welcome...or a really good descriptin....BTW: I was told that the origins of bachata come from Cumbia, which originally comes from Columbia(not Mexico, although they have embraced it so much it is almost as if they did originate Cumbia)....Honestly, it is far less concern who originated it, but how to dance it and learn new moves... :wink:

[Salsaonone]

Indeed, I'll never argue those points, nor blame people for who they are, for that isn't of my concern, nor the objective of my previous posts, rather the teaching of a philosophy that encourages the "genius" from each member of the norm. Instead of stating that a person can't, because her or she isn't or hasn't the knowledge of, for if one individual is able, all are surely capable to be geniuses their own way without ever creating anything new, just simply seeing what is there but not seen... We are simply using knowledge to bottle it…
I agree that attitude plays an important role in life, and so does support from the people around you. However, having a positive attitude and having people love you for who you are, does not mean that genius will occur. It may or may not be a pre-requisite to allow your inner mind to flourish, I don't know...Did every genius have a loving family and always thought "Yes, I can"?? I could not tell you. I still think that even in that enviornment, something internal has to happen, that still only happens to the very few, not the masses, even if we all loved each other on some level or another and always gave positive feeback (not lying, but always with good contstructive, not destructive criticism). Otherwise, everyone could be bach, Einstein, Newton, George Washington Carver all combined. Nice thought, but I don't think realistic.


Which means the mass is the norm because it isn't equipped by society to be the exception, where as new ideas can turn the exception into the norm, and my entire point on knowledge, to be more than we are told to be... Have the exception become the norm, don’t use a lack of knowledge as a limit to what can be done... We can all be Gauss! There need be no new creation to be deemed important but rather the knowledge of the self and what we are, all geniuses!

I can't blame society for all my problems...maybe some, but at some point, the individual has to rise above the masses and take responsibillity for who/what they are. Yet, even rising above the masses to take responsibility does not make a genius. We cannot, unfortunately all be a Gauss. I don't really want to be him anyway...but even as unique individuals, you cannot assume that genuis come out of that. Independence, ok, Control of one's own life...ok...Genius? hmm...doesn't happen all by itself if left alone with control from the masses.


Society, nor a person's inability to see past their noses will ever lead me to think that they can't become geniuses... for I know we all can dance like no body is watching, well, except for bachata, oops, did I say that out loud?

I dont mean to sound like a pessimist, but (hehe)....when we dance alone, and let it all out, does not mean that we acheive the level of genius. If I solo dance to hip hop, my "white man's disease" is quite evident...I also have bad knees so I cant do the floor work, and even then, Im not really into hip hop music....If I let society and the masses go, I am still limited by myself..even with positive thinking and support of loved ones...I am limited to myself..If I discover something new, it was not outside my limit, just my perception of my limit..and that is another discussion for another day... :wink:

Thank you for fancying my wondering mind SalsaOnOne, it is always of out most joy to share perspectives on the world. If you ever have more perspective, and noone to listen you are more than welcome to contact me. :D
Thanks, I just figure, we are all wrong, although we always think that we are right...otherwise, we would change our opinion.... :P

[Qbanmami313]

Hola Mi gente! I'm new to the group and the first thing I saw when I stumbled to this site was bachata. I'm Cubana so salsa is in my blood. I dance like I breath with everything I have but bachata is my baby! I know that most people are under the impression that bachata is from the Dominican Republic but actually it was adopted by Dominicans from Cuba. It's origin is from the cuban bolero not to be mistaken with the Spanish bolero and it also has influences of cuban son. However, it is not from Mexico or Colombia as stated in previous posts.... Check out a great sight called "PlanetSoul.com" It has wonderful information on the origins of salsa, rumba, y etc.[ Hopefully, I'll be getting to know severybody real soon..Ciao! :D color=darkblue][/color]

[squirrel]

Welcome to DF Qbanmami313!

[Sagitta]

[ Hopefully, I'll be getting to know severybody real soon..Ciao! :D color=darkblue][/color]

Hope so too! welcome to df. :D

[jhb]

I know that most people are under the impression that bachata is from the Dominican Republic but actually it was adopted by Dominicans from Cuba. It's origin is from the cuban bolero

It's true! Few know bachata's roots as a Cuban clave-based dance.

But it is from the Dominican Republic! They took an existing dance (the bolero) and evolved it. It's a Dominican dance with Cuban roots. To say it is not Dominican is like saying Son is not Cuban, because its roots lie in the music of Europe and Africa.

[djpatricio]

Well, no great thoughts on philosophical matters, hermaneutics, or the essence of human creativity....

Just wanted to share with you what is my favorite Bachata Of The Month:

Castigo Eterno by Alma Encendia.

Dang fine bachata, probably my favorite minor-key bachata right now. Request it from a DJ near you!

[msjanemas]

Well true the Bachata has it's origins in the bolero. In fact it is Bolero in the Felipe Rodriguez FORMAT, except "La Voz" meaning "The Voice" never had the annoying guitar pattern. The difference between Bolero and Bachata is that annoying cling cling cling cling cling that is so pronounced through out the bolero. Just a Dominican way of doing it, but to say it is Cuban is not true. Much of the Bachatas played (the great ones you don't hear on the radio) are infact a mix of Bachata and Son which is known as Bachason. That is nothing new, since Son has been around DR for ages. Now I didn't say the Cuban Son, I said SON. :?: Let's look at El Son from Cervantes mouth starting from the year 1597:

Now, in this context, let us look briefly at Cervantes' preparation for the Marcela-Grisóstomo episode. Ayala's characterization gives us our perspective:

[Hay] una gradación muy sutil. Don Quijote va a ingresar en esta Arcadia fingida a través de las chozas de unos cabreros, su rústica mesa y sus groseras ceremonias. El mismo se encargará de evocar la edad de oro con su discurso famoso. Apenas terminado, se anuncia la venida de un “zagal muy entendido y muy enamorado,” el son de cuyo rabel no tarda en oírse. Este zagal, Antonio, que cantará “con buena gracia” una canción oportuna, se eleva individualizado sobre la estatura vulgar de sus compañeros; y otro recién llegado cabrero, Pedro, aportará la noticia de lo sucedido con los señores y su fingida Arcadia dándonos así acceso a su peculiarísimo terreno literario. (P. 603)

As you can see the term SON has been in use in reference to song...meaning the Son "song/hymn/lament" has been around for ages and not centralized in one particular location.

[DJ ElGringo Latino]

Well this post has a lot of replies and I havent looked through all of them but to answer the original posters question....as a club DJ I can say that Bachata (here in NY) is almost as popular as Salsa or Merengue, mainly because it has gotten a lot of radio and club play over the past several years here as its popularity continues to rise. Dominican's love it because it's from their country but I can tell you that people from all over Latin America and right down to the typical "white person", such as myself :D , enjoys it just as much. Even the hardcore salsero's enjoy hearing and dancing to a few bachata's once in a while. I find it's one of the easier dances. We have a dance instructor at the club who does a workshop on Bachata every so often and gives private lessons to anyone that inquires on learning it. I think what most people love about Bachata is the catchy rhythm it usually has and the lyrics are commonly popular to sing along to whereas Salsa the enjoyment comes more from dancing to it.

Frank Reyes is my favorite Bachata artist and i've had the pleasure of standing up front (among many screaming girls) during one of his performances at a small club a few months ago.....truely amazing! Check out his latest Cd "Cuando Se Quiere Se Puede", almost every song on there is a hit!

[msjanemas]

Gringo I'm going to take your word for it and try and find it. Bachata can be wonderful, but unfortunately in my opinion most of what I hear on the radio is horrible. Many of the singers are actually whiners. The pitch is way too high and off 90% of the time or they just can't sing. The great recordings are rarely on the main local stations. I've seen Bachata danced by your average club patrons and I've seen a wonderfully older couple in their 60s dance it on tv and the way they danced was just beautiful.

[djpatricio]

Bachata can be wonderful, but unfortunately in my opinion most of what I hear on the radio is horrible. Many of the singers are actually whiners. The pitch is way too high and off 90% of the time or they just can't sing. The great recordings are rarely on the main local stations

I am 100% in agreement with this opinion. When I hear a great bachata it really sends me, but unfortunately the majority of bachatas I hear are cheesy and saccharine. That's why the exceptions are so wonderful! The genre lends itself to exaggerated romantic and tragic sentiments, and it's easy to take that too far and turn whiny. But, great bachatas keep coming my way and I do everything I can to play them as much as possible. Bachata is, I think, a real test of musicial aptitude, probably harder in some aspects than salsa.

[SalsaAmore]

Bachata is really popular here in SF like Rails and SG (Danceguy) said. We usually get along of people on the dance floor. But, it's a romantic dance so like a slow dance anywhere else, you won't have as many people doing it. But, the floor is usually full now when the songs come on 2-3x a night. I love the music and the style of the dance. It is so romantic and lovely to dance.

Some may be intimidated to dance the Bachata, but all you really need to do is watch what others are doing, grab a willing partner and practice (1st version) shuffle/step side to side -- right 1,2,3 lift right hip and leg up -- then the other side. (2nd version) shuffle/step side to side -- right 1,2,3 shake shoulder/body/hip with right toe touch (all at the same time), then the other side. I prefer the shake shoulder/body/hip version myself. The shake/body/hip with toe touch movement is very much like the Elvis shutter or just shuttering when you're cold :lol: Then, when you are comfortable with that, work in the turn to right 1,2,3 and lift right hip/leg or turn 1,2,3 turn touch toe/shutter.

Of course, in writing it's difficult to understand. But, once you get the idea, watch how others are doing it and just follow along. Nobody is technical about this dance. Just do it with feeling and fun. That's really how everyone learns it. Not from a class or anything. But, if you are interested in a class Rails and SG -- BL on Salsagang.com is starting to offer a Bachata class. Check it out on his website. (BL should pay me for mentioning this.)

[Salsaonone]

I am 100% in agreement with this opinion. When I hear a great bachata it really sends me, but unfortunately the majority of bachatas I hear are cheesy and saccharine. That's why the exceptions are so wonderful! The genre lends itself to exaggerated romantic and tragic sentiments, and it's easy to take that too far and turn whiny. But, great bachatas keep coming my way and I do everything I can to play them as much as possible. Bachata is, I think, a real test of musicial aptitude, probably harder in some aspects than salsa.

I have no real knowledge of who sings which bachata song, but what I don't understand is when a dj plays a speed bachata....speed merengue..ok...speed salsa...ok...but speed bachata?? I dont know the song or who sings it...but it seems un-natural for bachata to be fast...takes the feeling out of the dance when you cant keep up...if you know what I mean?? nugde nudge wink wink!

[Salsaonone]

Some may be intimidated to dance the Bachata, but all you really need to do is watch what others are doing, grab a willing partner and practice (1st version) shuffle/step side to side -- right 1,2,3 lift right hip and leg up -- then the other side. (2nd version) shuffle/step side to side -- right 1,2,3 shake shoulder/body/hip with right toe touch (all at the same time), then the other side. I prefer the shake shoulder/body/hip version myself. The shake/body/hip with toe touch movement is very much like the Elvis shutter or just shuttering when you're cold :lol: Then, when you are comfortable with that, work in the turn to right 1,2,3 and lift right hip/leg or turn 1,2,3 turn touch toe/shutter.



I think bachata is about the 2nd easiest latin dance to learn. After Meregue of course....To learn the basic anyway....But I love dancing bachata, cant say the same about merengue.... :shock:

[djpatricio]

I am 100% in agreement with this opinion. When I hear a great bachata it really sends me, but unfortunately the majority of bachatas I hear are cheesy and saccharine. That's why the exceptions are so wonderful! The genre lends itself to exaggerated romantic and tragic sentiments, and it's easy to take that too far and turn whiny. But, great bachatas keep coming my way and I do everything I can to play them as much as possible. Bachata is, I think, a real test of musicial aptitude, probably harder in some aspects than salsa.

I have no real knowledge of who sings which bachata song, but what I don't understand is when a dj plays a speed bachata....speed merengue..ok...speed salsa...ok...but speed bachata?? I dont know the song or who sings it...but it seems un-natural for bachata to be fast...takes the feeling out of the dance when you cant keep up...if you know what I mean?? nugde nudge wink wink!

Well, strictly from an observer's (dj's) standpoint, I'd have to say that the best dancers to "speed bachata" that I've seen do two things. 1) They make smaller steps to make it an easier, closer, more sexy dance, and 2) they have a way of splitting their bodies into two halves, upper and lower. Say it is a really fast bachata, 150bpm or higher...the feet go 150 bpm, and the upper part of the body goes at half-tempo, ie. 1/2 of 150=75bpm, which is really the same thing anyway. All of Latin rhythm is about syncopation anyway, being able to do two or more things at once, and in this case I'm not even talking about 4/4 against 6/8, it's just tempo against half-tempo. But that's just my little observation from the dj booth/peanut gallery. I have to admit, I'm not the greatest dancer, so I make it my business to know everything I can about the music and live vicariously through the excellent dancers I observe from my little ivory tower. And, this what I have observed about "speed bachata".

[SurfSalsa]

But in all the party and in all the club there is one kind of dance in addition of salsa that we love in france, it's ZOUK.

Bonjour Preko! I've been to the French Caribbean a few times, and i LOVE Zouk music!! What do you dance to it??

[burbujo]

oh, well, i can only confirm that Bachata is very much popular in Italy, and the ratio between Salsa and Bachata is almost 1/1.
People love it maybe because:
- it's simple, figures are not needed, not required and not really effective in my opinion... you have only to adjust the hip and HOLD CLOSE :wink:
- the timing is obvious and everybody can follow it correctly
- if you're in the right mood with the partner , can be surprisingly sensual (really)

Anyway, i prefer Salsa, and i think that Bachata is a little bit overplayed in here...

[Twilight_Elena]

I think bachata is about the 2nd easiest latin dance to learn.

Will have to strongly disagree. The very closed hold position, with legs practically intertwining makes it quite difficult for a beginner to do. I had very slight problems with that when dancing with my teacher, who makes every step amazingly easy for me. So I am guessing it's much more difficult for everyone else. Closed hold position in bachata is not a beginner's thing, IMO.

Twilight Elena

[Rosa]

I think bachata is about the 2nd easiest latin dance to learn.

Will have to strongly disagree. The very closed hold position, with legs practically intertwining makes it quite difficult for a beginner to do. I had very slight problems with that when dancing with my teacher, who makes every step amazingly easy for me. So I am guessing it's much more difficult for everyone else. Closed hold position in bachata is not a beginner's thing, IMO.

Twilight Elena

My experience was different, because, due to a combination of circumstances, I learned to dance in very closed hold position with legs intertwining, before I took up salsa.

Even now, though I've been studying salsa for a few years - and I love the music, the rhythm, everything about it - I still find it somewhat too distant for my taste. Bachata and merengue, on the other hand, make me feel completely at home.

I don't know which dance style you studied first, Twilight Elena, but if you started with ballroom, which I believe is danced with a fairly tight frame, then you might find bachata strange because it doesn't have so many 'rules.'

I think, for many people, the first dance you do - I mean the one that gets you 'hooked' on dancing - is the one that you judge all others by afterwards.

When I meet a salsero who's prepared to break the frame and hold me close (and I mean this in a totally non-sleazy way) I think 'Hallelujah!' But they are few and far between...

Rosa :)

[Twilight_Elena]

I think bachata is about the 2nd easiest latin dance to learn.

Will have to strongly disagree. The very closed hold position, with legs practically intertwining makes it quite difficult for a beginner to do. I had very slight problems with that when dancing with my teacher, who makes every step amazingly easy for me. So I am guessing it's much more difficult for everyone else. Closed hold position in bachata is not a beginner's thing, IMO.

Twilight Elena

My experience was different, because, due to a combination of circumstances, I learned to dance in very closed hold position with legs intertwining, before I took up salsa.

Even now, though I've been studying salsa for a few years - and I love the music, the rhythm, everything about it - I still find it somewhat too distant for my taste. Bachata and merengue, on the other hand, make me feel completely at home.

I don't know which dance style you studied first, Twilight Elena,