Experienced but still not confident dancers

[dancin_feet]

I need some help here guys. :?

There is a woman in the group routine that I am working on who just seems to completely lack confidence in anything new. Every time we learn a new step or add to what we have done, when she doesn't pick it up first go, she just throws her hands up and says it's impossible.

Now I know that not everyone picks things up on the first or second go, but she just seems to have an initial reaction of giving up. Others in the group may take 10 times to get it, or even more, but they persist.

She is actually up to silver level with her dancing (way above me) but she is hardly confident on the dancefloor, and her moves are very stilted and mechanical. I guess I just don't understand how she has gotten so far with pretty much no confidence at all.

Is this really possible, or could the studio be helping her along by passing her in exams to keep a paying customer? Is this done? We share the same instructor, so I can't imagine that he would be sending her to exams if she isn't ready.

[SDsalsaguy]

I guess I just don't understand how she has gotten so far with pretty much no confidence at all.

Is this really possible, or could the studio be helping her along by passing her in exams to keep a paying customer? Is this done? We share the same instructor, so I can't imagine that he would be sending her to exams if she isn't ready.
I can't speak to either your instructor or to this particular case but yes, unfortunately social promotions do transpire for the sake of ongoing payment. Not everywhere and not be everyone... probably far from it, but this does happen.

[Taita]

Hi dancin_feet,

It's hard to say what's happening without being close to the situation. It's clear that this person has a self esteem issue that can only be addressed by herself. Why she chooses this for herself is not clear. Perhaps she likes the attention that throwing up her hands gives her, or perhaps she wants the certainty of learning the routine that individual attention will give her, or maybe she may feel more connected with people when people run to her aid. It's hard to say. It's possible that the studio may be unknowingly enabling her behaviour by 'passing' her along. However, the real question is what do you want out of the situation.

[borikensalsero]

A move isn't impossible, might be challenging but not impossible... And challenge, she might just don't like...

Unfortunately as SD mentions, there are studios that for the sake of $$ keep the person moving right along... Hard to tell what the case is in this situation...

I used to belong to a studio with such practice. I felt so bad everytime I went dancing with his instructors, people would actually tell me how nice it was of me to take time to teach people when I could be going out enjoying the night. The practice eventually drove me from the studio. There was lots of money coming in and very little learning coming out. To this date, every time I see a student who has been there for over 3 years. I feel horrible for his inablitiy to see reality, and worse for his inability to still dance, even on beat. Some people just don't care.

[LauraB]

I wouln't be quite so hasty in assuming she doesn't have ability, and the studio is passing her anyway. This reminds me of me in many ways. I am a perfectionist, and I don't have great self-esteem. If I can't figure something out right away, it gets me really frustrated, and I sometimes have to fight to keep from giving up for that moment to spare further embarassment of not understanding the step/technique/pattern/what have you, and having everyone around think I'm really stupid and slow. In the past, I WOULD give up. Everyone needs teaching tailored to their personalities. You only saw her in a group class situation? In her private lessons, working at her own pace without the pressure of other people around to embarass herself in front of, she probably learns what's necessary for her to be at that level. Just another possibility.

[Vince A]

I wouln't be quite so hasty in assuming she doesn't have ability, and the studio is passing her anyway. This reminds me of me in many ways. I am a perfectionist, and I don't have great self-esteem. If I can't figure something out right away, it gets me really frustrated, and I sometimes have to fight to keep from giving up for that moment to spare further embarassment of not understanding the step/technique/pattern/what have you, and having everyone around think I'm really stupid and slow. In the past, I WOULD give up. Everyone needs teaching tailored to their personalities. You only saw her in a group class situation? In her private lessons, working at her own pace without the pressure of other people around to embarass herself in front of, she probably learns what's necessary for her to be at that level. Just another possibility.
Although there are exceptions, I tend to agree with you . . . thinking it may be a low self-esteem issue!

Also, if anyone has it, they need to get rid of the "I'm stupid and slow" thing. That person is already defeated before even trying anything. Remember that a lot of the dancing we do, is strictly a mental process. Just believing "we can dance" can make a world of difference.

Until we get brave enough to just "do it," what ever it is, then we'll never know if we can. The more we "get brave," the easier the next time will be.

Remember this: "A turtle does not make any progress until he sticks his neck out!"

[bordertangoman]

I need some help here guys. :?

There is a woman in the group routine that I am working on who just seems to completely lack confidence in anything new. Every time we learn a new step or add to what we have done, when she doesn't pick it up first go, she just throws her hands up and says it's impossible.

Now I know that not everyone picks things up on the first or second go, but she just seems to have an initial reaction of giving up. Others in the group may take 10 times to get it, or even more, but they persist.

She is actually up to silver level with her dancing (way above me) but she is hardly confident on the dancefloor, and her moves are very stilted and mechanical. I guess I just don't understand how she has gotten so far with pretty much no confidence at all.

.

In terms of self esteem saying something is impossible is a pay-off. It has advantages of not having to make an effort, but can act as a defence mechanism. Saying ‘this is impossible’ is actually displacing the frustration and avoiding saying; I am having difficulty doing this ( which is realistic assessment) or a typical low esteem thought ‘I’m stupid/icompetent (see I can’t even spell the word right) a failure etc etc
Sometimes you have to let the tide of emotion and negative thinking disspitate a bit before you try something again.
Of course I could be completely wrong.

PS confidence and self esteem are not necessarily the same thing
eg I can have no confidence in my ability to fly a plane becuause I don't have a clue. My self esteem is: that I am too stupid to fly a plane.

[dancin_feet]

It was amusing last week, all 8 of us learned the same step, some for the first time, some not. She was standing back saying that it was impossible, but there were the rest of us just doing it, proving it wasn't. :?

I would like to try and help her, because after all if she is lacking confidence in what she is doing, it will reflect on the group during practice and in the end, the whole routine. But I don't want to come across as the little upstart who knows everything. There are others in the group that take longer than she does to pick things up, but they persist with it through the class and have it by the end. Whereas she just steps back and says it's impossible. :x

Seems that maybe she can be lead through a step, but to do it herself is too daunting? Maybe this week, I'll try suggesting to her that we go over it together and see what her reaction is. I really don't want to drive a wedge and create animosity within the group, just want to try and help.

Any ideas on a non threatening approach?

[dancin_feet]

Anyone? :?: :?: :?:

[pygmalion]

Hmm. These forums are getting so busy that sometimes I miss important posts. Sorry.

Are you a guy? I assume so, because you're planning to lead her through this stuff.

Um, my first bit of input is that, however good you are and however non-threatening your approach , it may not work, if this lady is convinced she can't do it. It may just be a self esteem issue that goes so deep you can't fix it.

What I've done in the past with formation partners who weren't getting it, is to make it sound like I'm the one who needs help. (Of course, I was tiptoeing around male egos, if that makes any difference. :lol: ) But I would say something like, "wow, that new routine (or step, or whatever) is really tough. I need some extra practice time. Would you be willing to go through some steps with me?" In reality, I'm going through the steps primarily for their benefit, but I can always use practice too. They get the help without getting the ego bruising that comes with my telling them they're deficient. That approach has worked for me in the past, althuogh I'm sure other approaches could work, as well.

[dancin_feet]

No I'm a girl, it's a "ladies only" part of the routine and the guys come out later, but thanks for your suggestion. I just want to help her with her confidence. Doesn't worry me if I have to go through it with her 20 times, as long as she persists.

[pygmalion]

Yes. I thought you were a girl. That makes it easier, because you can help her in the guise of going through your own part. I've done that before with a lady who was hopeless! She didn't lack confidence, she just didn't get it. But practicing together got her a heck of a lot closer to the target.

[Taita]

Ok, I'll take a stab at this one.....

Unfortunately, it sounds as if insisting on her shaping up or shipping out would probably not do any good and merely cause bad feelings and crush her ego in the process. So..... maybe next time she's having trouble in the corner, you can pretend not to know something and ask her for help. Then maybe rounding up some other people who are 'having trouble' (some recruitment may be in order here) and going together to your teacher for 'assistance'.

Or, just crush her ego :wink:

let us know how it goes.

back to lurk mode....

[dancin_feet]

Thanks Taita. Crushing her ego wasn't something I was thinking of, but I am getting close to wringing her neck! :twisted: :lol:

Class is over the weekend so shall let you know how I go. :D