How to handle this

[gudel]

I'm taking a salsa class at school. There's this girl who seems to give instruction on how to dance, where to put my hands etc.
If I'm a beginner without knowing a thing, I'd probably okay with that.
The instructor had mentioned that I have good move & style, and good lead.
I really don't enjoy dancing with this girl. What would you say to her in this situation?

[Angel HI]

"You know, there is so much that goes into learning to dance. One of the things that makes it so cool, but difficult at the same time, is that it is different for each person whom you dance with. What is right for one person might not be right for someone else. So, I try to never teach someone what 'I' think they should be doing, and it would be really nice if you didn't do that to me. if you believe that I need to do something differently, let's ask the teacher."

If she doesn't like that, and doesn't dance with you again, remember....

I really don't enjoy dancing with this girl.

Either way...problem solved. Welcome to the DF.

[sweavo]

I'm taking a salsa class at school. There's this girl who seems to give instruction on how to dance, where to put my hands etc.
If I'm a beginner without knowing a thing, I'd probably okay with that.
The instructor had mentioned that I have good move & style, and good lead.
I really don't enjoy dancing with this girl. What would you say to her in this situation?

Hmm, I might

1) give her my best "po face"
2) perpetually "accidentally" stray from where she puts my hands and see how many times I can get her to tell me in one class. Keep a record and try to beat my personal best.
3) correct myself as per her instructions, then just move her hand an inch or two and act as if that's much better.
4) correct my hand position and say "mmm, that feels good!" in a very slightly creepy way
5) ask nonsensical questions about what she's telling me. e.g. if she tells me to step forward on a particular beat, ask "but what if you stepped forward too, wouldn't I step on your toe?" try to time it so that I don't get the whole question out before the instructor starts talking again and I am "interrupted".
6) Surreal responses, e.g. "I know, but I really need the bathroom."

[Pacion]

There's this girl who seems to give instruction on how to dance, where to put my hands etc.

I would say, try it her way. What harm could it cause, other than perhaps for her to like dancing with you ;)

Your teacher has complimented you on "good move & style, and good lead". Great!

In my experience, there are different ways of holding a girl which varies according to the lead's experiences both inside and outside of the salsa world.

Do you remember how this girl is telling you to hold her? Can you describe it?

[Josh]

Hmm, I might

1) give her my best "po face"
2) perpetually "accidentally" stray from where she puts my hands and see how many times I can get her to tell me in one class. Keep a record and try to beat my personal best.
3) correct myself as per her instructions, then just move her hand an inch or two and act as if that's much better.
4) correct my hand position and say "mmm, that feels good!" in a very slightly creepy way
5) ask nonsensical questions about what she's telling me. e.g. if she tells me to step forward on a particular beat, ask "but what if you stepped forward too, wouldn't I step on your toe?" try to time it so that I don't get the whole question out before the instructor starts talking again and I am "interrupted".
6) Surreal responses, e.g. "I know, but I really need the bathroom."

To this list, I would add:

7) "Cool, thanks for the advice." (in a genuinely inquisitive way, ask) "So how long have you been teaching??" ;-)

[LatinDancer006]

I would just brush it off and put her on the DNA list. I get this every once in a while in the salsa classes at the clubs from ladies who have been dancing for a few months. And I've been dancing for 2 years. They would fight my lead all the way, tell me what the patterns are suppose to, etc...but they always have this confused and overwhelm look on their faces. What is it with these women that feels a need to tell others what to do? Everyone needs to just focus on his/her own part and not worry about your partner's part.

[Pacion]

Wow! So much for male dancers making the best lovers!!! :lol:

Whatever happened to, "perhaps the woman prefers to be held a certain way"? That "certain way", may not be at odds with "generally accepted arm positions" of the guy.

In the basic closed hold position, I have danced with some "advanced" dancers who WILL put their left hand on my waist. In most cases, I prefer that left hand to be with their hands in the top middle of my back. There are other times (song dependent?) when I prefer the left hand to be lower down (means I can use my upper body more). Does that make me a difficult follower? Someone who deserves to be on the DNA list? I don't think so, I hope not!

For the record, I am not the female in Gudel's post! :lol:

[gudel]

I would just brush it off and put her on the DNA list. I get this every once in a while in the salsa classes at the clubs from ladies who have been dancing for a few months. And I've been dancing for 2 years. They would fight my lead all the way, tell me what the patterns are suppose to, etc...but they always have this confused and overwhelm look on their faces. What is it with these women that feels a need to tell others what to do? Everyone needs to just focus on his/her own part and not worry about your partner's part.


Yes I think it's best to just put her on the skip list. I've been doing ballroom for 8 years while salsa about 3 years, so mistakes Pacion mentioned is not exactly things I'd do ;)

Does that make me a difficult follower?

It doesn't make you a difficult follower, but it does make the already good leader question what to do, second guessing himself. In turn, makes the experience unenjoyable.

[Josh]

Wow! So much for male dancers making the best lovers!!! :lol:

:confused:

Whatever happened to, "perhaps the woman prefers to be held a certain way"? That "certain way", may not be at odds with "generally accepted arm positions" of the guy.

That's all fine and good Pacion, but the OP is talking about this in the context of a group class... if she's just asking "hey, would you mind putting your hand here?" then fine--but if she's one of these in-class "student teachers," then that's a problem (in my book anyway--especially as a teacher who has to put up with these kinds of people in class from time to time...). Guys have a hard enough time coming to take dance lessons, on average, so why make them feel more inadequate? That's the main issue I have, in my opinion. But the same thing goes for both genders--I don't think many people like being "taught" by another student in the class, if the advice is unsolicited.

In the basic closed hold position, I have danced with some "advanced" dancers who WILL put their left hand on my waist.

Unless you're talking about the "high school dance," I think you mean right hand! ;-)

[sweavo]

What Josh said. The OP also said "I really don't enjoy dancing with this girl" so my post gives some tips on how to get the enjoyment back without trying to remedy the 'relationship'. If the OP had said "I really like this girl but it's driving me mad" there would be a whole other set of advice.

[Pacion]

Unless you're talking about the "high school dance," I think you mean right hand! :oops: Yes, I did mean the right hand, even though, we tend to do things abit opposite to what you do on the 'other side of the pond'. Thankfully, this does not apply to dancing.

That's all fine and good Pacion, but the OP is talking about this in the context of a group class... if she's just asking "hey, would you mind putting your hand here?" then fine--but if she's one of these in-class "student teachers," then that's a problem (in my book anyway--especially as a teacher who has to put up with these kinds of people in class from time to time...). Guys have a hard enough time coming to take dance lessons, on average, so why make them feel more inadequate? That's the main issue I have, in my opinion. But the same thing goes for both genders--I don't think many people like being "taught" by another student in the class, if the advice is unsolicited.

Not everyone asks for things in the same way. The way you put it "hey,would you mind putting your hand here" is pleasant and informal. But on the other hand it is a known 'problem' that men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Therefore, as we know, women may not necessarily communicate things in the way a man would appreciate and vice versa. :D

Yes I think it's best to just put her on the skip list. I've been doing ballroom for 8 years while salsa about 3 years, so mistakes Pacion mentioned is not exactly things I'd do

Gudel, can you remember how she was telling you to hold her? Depending on the style of salsa, to my understanding, there are 'slightly' different holds, for both the right and left hands ;) I know of people who go to classes and will persist in wanting to draw references from previous classes, even though the teacher standing in front of them is doing something different. Sometimes, those references are subconcious and other times, deliberate.

If Gudel really does not like dancing with her in the class situation, avoid her then. Although, he could try dealing with the situation head on ie. ask her why she wants to be held in 'x' way, when the teacher has said to do 'y'.

I remember an advanced class I did several years ago. The guy I had rotated to was not a strong dancer, even through it was the advanced level and had a terrible lead, for me. He then made some dodgy comment about my dancing. Thankfully, I had had enough great dances to know that the problem did not lie with me, but with him. I think this incident must have happened when I was hormonal and it felt like a punch in the stomach. Thereafter, I would position myself to start the rotation just after where he was standing. There were enough people in the class, that by the end of the class, I would be about two people away from dancing with him! :banana:

[nowhiteshoes]

I'm taking a salsa class at school. There's this girl who seems to give instruction on how to dance, where to put my hands etc.
If I'm a beginner without knowing a thing, I'd probably okay with that.
The instructor had mentioned that I have good move & style, and good lead.
I really don't enjoy dancing with this girl. What would you say to her in this situation?

this happens. usually in the beginners neither party knows the right way. i just grin and bear it. you may find that during a dance after the class that no comments are made; putting her on a dont ask list already might be a bit harsh? who knows. although if 'advice' is given during a social dance: dont ask list :(

[MacMoto]

Whatever happened to, "perhaps the woman prefers to be held a certain way"? That "certain way", may not be at odds with "generally accepted arm positions" of the guy.
That's all fine and good Pacion, but the OP is talking about this in the context of a group class... if she's just asking "hey, would you mind putting your hand here?" then fine--but if she's one of these in-class "student teachers," then that's a problem (in my book anyway--especially as a teacher who has to put up with these kinds of people in class from time to time...). Guys have a hard enough time coming to take dance lessons, on average, so why make them feel more inadequate? That's the main issue I have, in my opinion. But the same thing goes for both genders--I don't think many people like being "taught" by another student in the class, if the advice is unsolicited.
The issue of unsolicited advice/teaching in classes/on dancefloor has always been a delicate one, and even though it may be a faux pas, my attitude is to accept the advice unless I know for certain that it's a load of BS. It's always possible that the other person is right, and that I might actually benefit from the advice. After nearly 5 years of dancing, I still get unsolicited advice on the dancefloor, and I still listen.

I remember once advising a beginner/improver leader (I joined the class instead of hanging around waiting for social dancing to start) not to use his thumb when holding the follower's hand. I think I also said something about listening to the music and not rushing ahead. That was about two years ago, and he's now taking intermediate/advanced classes, has plenty of fancy moves and plenty of girls who ask him to dance. I occasionally ask him for a dance to see how much he's improved (he doesn't ask me - I'm probably on his DNA list :lol:). He still rushes ahead of music and grips my hands with his thumbs. I know that his teachers don't teach how to hold the follower's hands, and many of their students have the same lobster grip :?. I no longer comment on that though.

[Me]

Hmm, I might

1) give her my best "po face"
2) perpetually "accidentally" stray from where she puts my hands and see how many times I can get her to tell me in one class. Keep a record and try to beat my personal best.
3) correct myself as per her instructions, then just move her hand an inch or two and act as if that's much better.
4) correct my hand position and say "mmm, that feels good!" in a very slightly creepy way
5) ask nonsensical questions about what she's telling me. e.g. if she tells me to step forward on a particular beat, ask "but what if you stepped forward too, wouldn't I step on your toe?" try to time it so that I don't get the whole question out before the instructor starts talking again and I am "interrupted".
6) Surreal responses, e.g. "I know, but I really need the bathroom."


:uplaugh:

That's just so wrong! :D

[Sabor]

i'd keep asking her repeatedly if she washed her hands cause there's an infection going on..

[Ron Obvious]

I'd just say: "Let's skip the crap. You want my number, right?"

[Schatz]

I prefer to listen to what the lady has to say, then try to accomodate her if I can.

I always lead the lady through the dance to help her have great fun and feel fantastic! Then she looks beautiful and I enjoy my choreography.

I also race motorcars, and much like a woman they must be guided by a firm, intuitive hand according to their individual needs....

[Josh]

I also race motorcars, and much like a woman they must be guided by a firm, intuitive hand according to their individual needs....

Schatz, welcome to DF...

At least for me, as a man I disassociate myself from this car comparison! :-) I don't think women in general like to be compared to cars, especially saying that they "must be guided" ... in dance, I suppose it fits a bit, but women already think we are pigs so let's not compare them to pieces of metal and fiberglass! ;-)

[Schatz]

Indeed, terribly brutish - but I wouldn't dream of comparing our fair companions to a mere piece of machinery... only the manner in which they may both be exquisitely explored!

Alas, the cliche' that women think of men as pigs is sadly true, and too often accurate... truth be told - men & women are more rightly analogous to dogs & cats.

Ladies, however, consider Schatz to be a rose twined with their box of chocolates...

[Ron Obvious]

At least for me, as a man I disassociate myself from this car comparison! :-) I don't think women in general like to be compared to cars, especially saying that they "must be guided" ... in dance, I suppose it fits a bit, but women already think we are pigs so let's not compare them to pieces of metal and fiberglass! ;-)

Agree, a car is something you wouldn't lend to even your best friend :wink:

[Dennie Chan]

I'm so glad you posted this thread because I had a little experience at a class once that I was a little conflicted about. Well, there was this one girl who was an "advanced" beginner who probably could have gone to intermediate if she choose but instead stayed at the beginner level. However, while there she would aggressively correct people she danced with and most of us took it in stride but after a while it got really annoying. I bore it for maybe two or three classes but I started not liking class at all and just danced solo when it was our turn together in class rotation.

I'm not sure if it hurt her feelings because we really didn't speak at all but I felt kinda bad about it but what could I have done, right?

[cornutt]

Whatever happened to, "perhaps the woman prefers to be held a certain way"? That "certain way", may not be at odds with "generally accepted arm positions" of the guy.


We see lots of complaints here, and rightly so, about guys who try to "instruct" their partners. I can assure you it is no less annoying when a woman does it.

[Schatz]

I just danced solo when it was our turn together in class rotation.

I'm not sure if it hurt her feelings because we really didn't speak at all but I felt kinda bad about it but what could I have done, right?

You insensitive brute!

She may still be curled up in the fetal position, desperately trying to cope with your traumatic rejection of her edificational overtures... http://www.easysmileys.com/img/smile_rofl.gif

[dancin/dj]

well its seems to me many of us have seen or experianced this subject and a whole lot more no? i like pacion"s answer.i can only speak for myself what i"ve learned( i teach/&perform in dance/part time& by performing i mean i get paid) any way, sometimes when a guy(i'll say me, but im sure this go to others) sometimes i forget that people are different (girls &ladies) and i need and do try to adjust to there needs and levels of dance, makes for a better social dancing night.im not saying girls or ladies are always right either cause i"ve personally heard women/girls say some of most rudest foolish things out there in the dance world to me, or others, and i"ve gotten around/as in i do wc/ec/ salsa/hustle/ballroom/c 2step &freestyle dancing..normally i listen to the girl if she wants a certain thing to please her, i only break this rule if she gets rude etc and i may school her with my so called credentials, cause wheter someone likes me or not im still a professianal dancer/dj/ &musican and if your really dense and i have to i"ll school you, but usually i dont, and im certaintly not a proffesianl speller lol.