Aris Allen shoes for general dance?

[RickRS]

First, I got fat feet, so...

Poking around, found the Dancestore.com, where there are Aris Allen Captoe shoes in EEE (alright!). As swing is their speciality, would these work for someone looking for dance shoes for other dance style? Currently a beginner working on WCS, after doing a beginner NC2S, and likely going to waltz or cha cha (instructor is CW, but I'm doing this for social dancing).

The shoe (http://www.dancestore.com/1aacaptoewide.html):

[Peaches]

Beware the leather soles. Very slippery. Not unmanageable, but slippery. Be sure to scuff them well.

(On the upside, you can also use them as street shoes.)

[waltzgirl]

Or you can get a shoemaker to put suede soles on them. Or do it yourself with suede from a crafts store.

[LucyDiamond]

I had a shoemaker put suede on a pair of swing shoes for me. It worked out GREAT!!!

[DWise1]

I got a pair of Aris Allens a couple years ago and use them regularly for Lindy, WCS, salsa, and ballroom. They used to come in hard leather and raw leather soles, but when I was looking they only had raw leather. Not overly slick, certainly not like my Florsheims were at first (which were hard leather until a WCS class held on outdoor concrete).

And when they start to gunk up, just go outside and do a few spins on the sidewalk.


PS
Using them as street shoes goes against the grain, but I feel fine about running out to the car or across the street to Benihana's.

[Peaches]

What's the difference between raw leather and hard leather? (I'm thinking my comment about using them as street shoes might not be applicable, depending on what the difference is.)

I know my AT shoes are leather soled--don't know what type--and they're fine as street shoes. I just scuff them nicely to make sure they're clean before I dance in them. Scuffing also slows them down a touch--I don't notice much of a difference between freshly scuffed leather soles and my suede soles (which I basically never brush unless there's gunk stuck to them). The leather will speed up over the course of the evening, but it's not noticeable...until the next time you put them on.

[Chris Stratton]

What's the difference between raw leather and hard leather?

They make it sound like they are seriously, industrially, pre-scuffed.

But it seems like it's still a vegetable tanned leather rather than a softer chrome tanned leather.

Or it could literally be raw, but that might not hold up too well.

[DWise1]

Hard leather (if that's even the correct term) is hard and slick. Next time you're in JC Penney's (only place I could find them), check out the Florsheims. When you find one with a leather sole, it will be hard leather. There's a hard finish on it.

The raw leather doesn't have any finish on it, so it's not slick, but it's also not rough.

The Lindy hoppers really like the leather heels and will put a bevel on the backs of the heels so that they can do heel slides.

'Course, I'm not too sensitive nor mindful of my soles. I made my first pair of dance shoes by sueding an old pair of sneakers. That was about 5 years ago and I have never cleaned them, becoming somewhat partial to "iced chrome". But I lost that effect a couple years ago at an all-night dance party, what with the spilled food and drinks. But even at their slickest, they weren't as slippery as the Florsheims could sometimes be.

[Mawmaw]

Hi Rick,
Werner-Kern has an extra-wide shoe for men that you might want to look at. It is their style 28013. We ordered it for a gentleman that said he had extra wide feet and it turned out to be even a little wide for him. It is lined in leather with an arch support. It has a suede bottom too.

[Peaches]

Hard leather (if that's even the correct term) is hard and slick. Next time you're in JC Penney's (only place I could find them), check out the Florsheims. When you find one with a leather sole, it will be hard leather. There's a hard finish on it.

The raw leather doesn't have any finish on it, so it's not slick, but it's also not rough.
Thanks. I'm guessing my AT shoes have hard leather soles, then.

[Chris Stratton]

There are two separate issues involved: tanning process and surface type / finish.

Most dance shoes use chromium salts tanning which results in a very soft leather (most are also made by splitting off an inner layer of the skin). Most street shoes use vegetable tanning which results - at least initially in a very hard leather. But so does a leather belt, and that will soften with time.

The surface finish that you see in the store would wear with time, or scuffing on the sidewalk, etc. But what the tanning process has done to the leather through and through would not depend on what it looked like on the outside.

I really doubt that the "raw" leather is actually untanned rawhide - it would dry out or rot. Probably it is vegetable tanned sole leather that's not been given a shiny surface - sort of what you'd end up with if you built a machine to scuff your street shoes with determination.

[RickRS]

So one vote? for the Allen as ok (if I'm reading DWise1 correctly) and a suggestion to check Werner-Kern from Mawmaw for wide sizes.

I appreciate the help and will check into Werner-Kern if I can. The arch support not an absolute necessary, as I use orthrotics, but it does suggest a shoemaker concerned about one's feet.

At a disadvantage for first hand experience at the store, as my one dance store is limited to stock in "normal" width only. Currently I been doing fine with some black New Balance leather "tennis" shoes of mine set aside for dance and rigged with gaffers tape over the rubber soles. Something with a little more class would be nice :D

[waltzgirl]

If you have to order from a website, I'd recommend calling rather than ordering online. You can measure the widest part of your foot (or of a shoe that fits) and ask them to compare that to the dance shoe you are thinking about. That will help at lest a little to avoid getting a bad fit, especially if you have to special order as special orders are usually not returnable.

I've had very good experiences ordering shoes from backbaydancewear, dancehappy, and toe2toe (add .com to get the websites).

[DWise1]

Yes, as I recall, the site warned that your usual shoe size would be off. Forget whether the shoes are a half-size larger or smaller.

That issue didn't come into play for me, because I bought them at Camp Hollywood where they had set up shop. They let me borrow a pair to try out on the dance floor and that was the right size.

[Mawmaw]

So one vote? for the Allen as ok (if I'm reading DWise1 correctly) and a suggestion to check Werner-Kern from Mawmaw for wide sizes.

I appreciate the help and will check into Werner-Kern if I can. The arch support not an absolute necessary, as I use orthrotics, but it does suggest a shoemaker concerned about one's feet.

At a disadvantage for first hand experience at the store, as my one dance store is limited to stock in "normal" width only. Currently I been doing fine with some black New Balance leather "tennis" shoes of mine set aside for dance and rigged with gaffers tape over the rubber soles. Something with a little more class would be nice :D

I do want to add that if you decide to try Werner-Kern, they run a bit larger than other UK sized shoes. I would start at 1.5 sizes smaller - maybe even 2. W-K is a well made shoe. We sell more W-K to men than any other brand. I don't think you would be disappointed.