Practice makes perfect thread

[elisedance]

We have a great thread on lessons (lessons, what are you working on) but none on practice. Other than that there is no theme - just to talk about what you worked on, where and anything special....

I'll start off.....

Last night went to our weekly wednesday practice at a large studio that a couple rent for 2 hours each week and we all pay a small floor fee. Its a fantastic venue as the floor is perfect - full size for comps (except perhaps for missing a corner where the DJ podium is). Also, there are usually no more than 6 or 7 couples so you don't have to worry much about collisions.

The other nice thing is that the organizers play each many tunes one after the other for each dance style and they have far more standard than latin (great for us). Thus, you can work on one dance, say waltz. for about 20 minutes before shifting to another. We have all been going for months now and are getting to know each other quite well.

dancing - worked mostly on our recent lesson stuff - fallawayreverse-contracheck-weave in waltz, rhumba cross-running right turn in QS, and improving swing in FT.

[cornutt]

The thread on under-turning in Viennese waltz inspired me to go work on that last night. I did left and right turns, just trying to do them consistently and keep them moving down the floor. Consistency has been a problem for me in VW; it's jerky. I need to be smoother, and keep my rise and fall under better control.

[and123]

Stay low, keep soft knees, and don't attempt rise and fall. Once you get the jerky-ness under control, then you can add a little more shape. Remember, no sway in reverse turns :cool:

[cornutt]

Remember, no sway in reverse turns :cool:

Really? I didn't know that! I'll have to work on that.

[elisedance]

the hard thing for me was getting the feet to go straight down the floor while the body does the turns... Once that clicked suddenly things moved...

[and123]

For me, mentally keeping the upper body facing or backing wall on "2" whilst the feet do their thing worked wonders. Trying to alter moving different body parts at the same time often results in a brain collision and what I call "lumpy" dancing :rolleyes:. Work on one thing, get it so that it feels natural enough to not to think so much about it, and then add another thing. And there are time when fixing one thing automagically corrects another problem area. LOVE that :cool:

[elisedance]

there are time when fixing one thing automagically corrects another problem area
(my blue)

what a great word!
Of course then there's the opposite, the domino-descent, when fixing one thing leads to a cascade of fall-aways, and I'm not talking of the step either!

[and123]

Yeah, I hate when that happens. Tweak your technique, and suddenly you feel like you can't dance for crap anymore.

[suburbaknght]

Before starting a general practice, I find it's extremely helpful to say what you're working on. Just as lessons are more focused with a specific goal (i.e. "Today we're going to learn contra-checks") practice is far more effective with a specific goal (i.e. "I'm going to make sure I do heel leads and toe releases for all of my smooth dances and toe leads for all of my rhythm dances"). Identifying this to your partner(s) before dancing with them can be quite useful as well. If you're working on patterns, one should always identify them before you and your partner dance so that everyone is working towards the same end. Finally, if it's a supervised practice, tell the teacher before hand so s/he knows what to look for.

[Peaches]

Miscellaneous AT things throughout the house, when I remember it an am alone.

Posture, walking (focusing on lengthening/contracting distance between center and hip), collecting (with the knees!), small embellishments (taps, taps behind) while walking, walking...walking...walking, ochos, walking, ochos, molinetes, walking, ochos, ochos, walking. Various crosses (left behind right, right behind left, left in front of right, right in front of left). Weight shifts. Control of axis.

Unfortunately I can't actually practice in my heels, b/c we have a "no shoes" policy. So who knows how helpful it really is. But, at least it can't hurt, right?

[fascination]

this week...coordinating closing fan, using hip and arm styling

purposeful alignments in various spots...

smaller 5th pos.

[elisedance]

Miscellaneous AT things throughout the house, when I remember it an am alone.

Posture, walking (focusing on lengthening/contracting distance between center and hip), collecting (with the knees!), small embellishments (taps, taps behind) while walking, walking...walking...walking, ochos, walking, ochos, molinetes, walking, ochos, ochos, walking. Various crosses (left behind right, right behind left, left in front of right, right in front of left). Weight shifts. Control of axis.

Unfortunately I can't actually practice in my heels, b/c we have a "no shoes" policy. So who knows how helpful it really is. But, at least it can't hurt, right?

P: I think this also qualifies for 'you know you are addicted..." in particular the lovely closer - which questions whether the main impact of the effort is to improve dancing or to feed the ever hungry addiction :)

That said, I'm sure we all do the same thing in our particular ways!

[elisedance]

Before starting a general practice, I find it's extremely helpful to say what you're working on. ..
Definitely - even if within 3 minutes you discover something that you have to work on because you can't actually get there!

[elisedance]

We alway start our practice sessions the same way. First a bit of stretching, then some solo extensions around the floor (I love to go full tilt backwards and do a few heel turn/pivots, warms me up and just feels so good).

After that we take a simple (not full extension) hold and start doing Waltz basic 16s up and down the floor. This simple step sequence is anything but simple to execute together and without loosing ballance. During this phase we develop the frame to our max extension. The nice thing for me is that I can focus on frame leg action and foot placement (bringing together) without the extras involved in following.

I'd love to hear how others start the practice.

[cornutt]

To an extent, it depends on what we plan to do. For me, it always starts with listening to some music first. If we're going to be doing rhythm, I like to listen to something with a definite beat (e.g., The System on XM) to get my brain into that groove, and help clear out other mental fluff (particularly if I'm going to the studio straight from work). Then, stretching. After that, if it's a rhythm night, we like to start with rumba. If it's a smooth night, we might start with bronze waltz to get the swing-n-sway going. But if we're going to be doing tango, we always plow right into that.

[Peaches]

P: I think this also qualifies for 'you know you are addicted..." in particular the lovely closer - which questions whether the main impact of the effort is to improve dancing or to feed the ever hungry addiction :)

That said, I'm sure we all do the same thing in our particular ways!Ha! I never thought about it like that. Some of it...yeah...definitely an addiction feeding thing. I listen to AT music almost all day, almost every day at work...it kills me to not be able to move to it. Gotta get it out of my system somehow.

But even without the shoes, a lot of it is still beneficial. That my balance is different is a p.i.t.a., but I can still work on using my core, and I can still work on feeling my axis and controlling it, and I can still work on breaking down an ocho into it's component parts and learning to control them.

[elisedance]

ocho? hows that again?

[Peaches]

ocho? hows that again?Waddaya mean?

[elisedance]

I'm uneducated and ignorant in the Ways of The Argentine Tango.

so whats an ocho, apart from an 'oh' that repeats on you...

[Peaches]

Ochos are essentially variations on pivots. Step, pivot, step, pivot, etc. Sort of similar to...fans?...in ballroom tango. (That might just be an am. tango thing, and it might not even be the right name.) They get their name from the imaginary design that would be drawn on the floor as the lady does the.

You can do forward ochos (step forward, then pivot), or backward ochos (step backward, then pivot). And there's so-called overturned ochos, both back and forward, where the amount of rotation on each pivot is extreme and they actually travel as a result.

Alternatively, there are (what my teacher calls) crossed-back ochos, where there is no pivot involved, only the crossing of one leg far behind the other when taking the step. They're only ever (IME, AFAIK) done backwards.

Ochos are one of the most basic (see: most deceptively difficult) AT steps out there. Grossly overused by beginner leaders (not a fault, just a comment), and devilishly tricky to do beautifully.

[Joe]

Not pivots--ochos are more akin to Standard outside swivels, or Smooth fans.

[Peaches]

Ah, thank you for that. But what do you mean by "not pivots?"

Edit to add: Oh, never mind. I just clicked. I forget that a "pivot" can be an actual thing in ballroom, not just an action like it is in AT.

[elisedance]

See, I learned something today and its not even time to wake the brain up! I think I will tease coach (O+) by asking to work on the waltz ochos. There's a good chance she will not know what it means....

[elisedance]

Semis often involve dancing with many couples (most I've had was 13) on the floor at the same time - which totally screws up any plans to do routines. Does anyone have a magical way to practice these skills - social dances or, as the myth goes, have your coach throw chairs on the floor! :)

[waltzgirl]

I once helped out a friend by running around the floor trying to get in his way, bump him, etc. when he was practicing for a comp with his pro.

[elisedance]

Interesting legal case if you had been hurt in a collision! Its a great idea though as long as you do not accidentally run out in front of the wrong couple

:o :spam:.

[chandra]

Routine, and spinning. there is one part where coach says "this is all you - the faster you can spin - the cooler". So basically I have like 5 seconds of illusion spins, a break, and then 5 more seconds. Trying to do as many as physically possible in those 10 seconds.

and well, trying to convince partner to show up to practise - thats becoming a hobby. (alone in chi-town for the second weekend in a row. No partner, and its a 5 hour drive)

[elisedance]

Routine, and spinning. there is one part where coach says "this is all you - the faster you can spin - the cooler". So basically I have like 5 seconds of illusion spins, a break, and then 5 more seconds. Trying to do as many as physically possible in those 10 seconds.


So how many are you up to :)

and well, trying to convince partner to show up to practise - thats becoming a hobby. (alone in chi-town for the second weekend in a row. No partner, and its a 5 hour drive)

Did I get that right - you arranged to meet to practice, drove 5 hrs to do so and then he did not show? Thats awful - unless he has a darn good reason. Sounds to me as if this partner needs a wakeup call....

Hey, anyone else in N Ill need a charming and dedicated (5 hrs drive??) follower who can do multiple illusion spins to order ?? :)

[jwlinson]

Great thread idea!

We worked on our IS Slow Fox some, and played around with an AS Waltz amalgamation we've been working on, mainly tinkering with the exit.

Also spent some time on Quickstep, just because it's fun :)

Clocked two hours today.

[chandra]

Dont forget ED, they have to be under 18 too, with a birthday after february.


Yeah, you got the scenario right!

[elisedance]

chandra; you could put an ad in your sig like MT has..

[etp777]

Some great junior dancers at a couple ofthe FA studios up there, one at least who's about 16 if memory serves. Just break up him and his current partner. ;)

[chandra]

WCS dancers? Im actually not looking for another partner - gonna see what can be pulled out of this first.

[elisedance]

Sorry - didn't mean to stir up a revolution in your dance life! On the other hand, if your experience the other day was typical then you are way more tollerant than me. On the other hand, when I think back to the one-in-a-billion chance of finding a dance partner (experience) I suppose I too would try to make it work.

[chandra]

Oh, no problem. Its been a challenge for me, but Ive decided to stick with this guy for a little. His heart is in the right place, even if his grades arent. (His dad wont let him come down till he raises his grades.) So maybe itll take a little longer than I planned, and Ill spend a little more. He is good :D

[fascination]

spot volta turns...arm styling while closing fan...uh...hm...core...voltas in general

[elisedance]

Oh, no problem. Its been a challenge for me, but Ive decided to stick with this guy for a little. His heart is in the right place, even if his grades arent. (His dad wont let him come down till he raises his grades.) So maybe itll take a little longer than I planned, and Ill spend a little more. He is good :D

Oh thats quite different then - he wants to dance but 'other factors' (inconsiderate parents for example ;)) are impeding him. So maybe the solution is to help him with his grades. Hey, whatever gets you dancin'.... :)

[Joe]

Tutoring!

[elisedance]

Paid??? :cool:

[WorksForShoes]

Semis often involve dancing with many couples (most I've had was 13) on the floor at the same time - which totally screws up any plans to do routines. Does anyone have a magical way to practice these skills - social dances or, as the myth goes, have your coach throw chairs on the floor! :smile:


I think practicing bits of your routine during socials can be good. There also seems to be something of an ethic that, as comp time approaches, the couples dancing rounds can use the group class (as a whole) or the other lessons on the floor as "pylons" to dance around. We were once in a private lesson right before a big comp for one of the advanced dancers at our studio, and we stopped to step off the floor to let her pass. Our instructor said, "don't stop moving, they need to practice floorcraft too!"

[elisedance]

Thats what we do - try to practice at a social studio - but since we do not have a formal 'home' studio we have to do this at a friendly but not entirely accomodating studio (can't blame them). There seems to be a love-hate relationship between social and competetive dancers. On the one hand, a lot of social dancers seem to love to watch trained dancers on teh floor and we get lots of compliments and encouragement. on the other hand some (a minority) get scared and intimidated when they see a couple bearing down on them at a rate of knots - even if there is no danger of a collision. Thus, sometimes there are complaints. I wish the social studios would have at least the occasional dance where just competitors and the stronger social dancers were invited on the floor - they could call it a 'showcase dance'. It would benefit all...

Actually, I think I am going to suggest that the next time I am there...

[and123]

I wish the social studios would have at least the occasional dance where just competitors and the stronger social dancers were invited on the floor

Um, then you have the perpetual problem of Delusions of Grandeur. Y'know, like the people who jump into Advanced classes after a few months of dancing, thinking they Know Everything :rolleyes:. Worth a shot, tho....

[cornutt]

Foxtrot rhythm.

[Peaches]

Practice for the next 2 weeks: grapevines. Fast grapevines. Starting with small steps, working up to larger ones. Starting relatively slow, and working up to Oh-holy-crap-this-is-fast speed.

[fascination]

actually...larger steps will slow it down for you

[skwiggy]

Trying yet another way to fix my horrible right shoulder problem.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Thats what we do - try to practice at a social studio - but since we do not have a formal 'home' studio we have to do this at a friendly but not entirely accomodating studio (can't blame them). There seems to be a love-hate relationship between social and competetive dancers. On the one hand, a lot of social dancers seem to love to watch trained dancers on teh floor and we get lots of compliments and encouragement. on the other hand some (a minority) get scared and intimidated when they see a couple bearing down on them at a rate of knots - even if there is no danger of a collision. Thus, sometimes there are complaints. I wish the social studios would have at least the occasional dance where just competitors and the stronger social dancers were invited on the floor - they could call it a 'showcase dance'. It would benefit all...

Actually, I think I am going to suggest that the next time I am there...

You know, this probably merits a whole thread of its own: to what extent social dancers are intimidated by competitive ones? I had a lesson the other day and we shared the floor with one other teacher working with a social couple, and at one point I think they were not too happy when they were doing foxtrot and I was doing foxtrot with my teacher, and ours looked a lot different than theirs.

[elisedance]

I had a lesson the other day and we shared the floor with one other teacher working with a social couple, and at one point I think they were not too happy when they were doing foxtrot and I was doing foxtrot with my teacher, and ours looked a lot different than theirs.

I'll bet!!! :cool::cool::cool:

Isn't that how coaches get new couples hooked on umpteen privates though? A little jealousy goes a long way....

[fascination]

I think there is sometimes an element of that...and it pains me...when I was getting ready for a lesson at a studio I visit for a FT showcase...the lady (who dances socially) who was practicing her showcase routine before me came up to me and said "you aren't going to be doing a WALTZ with him are you??????" b/c her routine was a waltz and her perception was that if I did one as well, somehow hers would be less lovely...made me feel very bad...always does...because then it feels like if I dance full out others feel diminished ...granted I am not in control of that but I hate to think it....I try, when watching excellent pros, to enjoy the beauty of just getting to see good dancing...and I try to learn from them....

[fascination]

I'll bet!!! :cool::cool::cool:

Isn't that how coaches get new couples hooked on umpteen privates though? A little jealousy goes a long way....
perhpas...but jealousy is one vice that hurts both the sender and the reciever

[elisedance]

true enough - maybe I should have written 'envy' - that can be quite healthy...

[Peaches]

actually...larger steps will slow it down for you
Yup. Hence, the practice. He wants the large steps just about as fast as the small steps...and all of it faster than I'd believe possible.

[Peaches]

I think there is sometimes an element of that...and it pains me...when I was getting ready for a lesson at a studio I visit for a FT showcase...the lady (who dances socially) who was practicing her showcase routine before me came up to me and said "you aren't going to be doing a WALTZ with him are you??????" b/c her routine was a waltz and her perception was that if I did one as well, somehow hers would be less lovely...made me feel very bad...always does...because then it feels like if I dance full out others feel diminished ...granted I am not in control of that but I hate to think it....I try, when watching excellent pros, to enjoy the beauty of just getting to see good dancing...and I try to learn from them....Well, that's about me...to a "T." I'm not proud, but there it is. You absolutely nailed it.

That said--it's not your fault, or your issue to worry about. While your dancing full-out might make other feel diminished, by not doing so it won't buoy the confidence of others. Congrats on being at a place where you can just enjoy the beauty of those better than you--not all of us are there. (Not meant to be snarky, btw.) But there's nothing you can, or should, do about it. Finding a way to deal is our responsibility.

[fascination]

Yup. Hence, the practice. He wants the large steps just about as fast as the small steps...and all of it faster than I'd believe possible.
well if you ever want my private 2cents worth on that dragon, I will be happy to offer it

[fascination]

Well, that's about me...to a "T." I'm not proud, but there it is. You absolutely nailed it.

That said--it's not your fault, or your issue to worry about. While your dancing full-out might make other feel diminished, by not doing so it won't buoy the confidence of others. Congrats on being at a place where you can just enjoy the beauty of those better than you--not all of us are there. (Not meant to be snarky, btw.) But there's nothing you can, or should, do about it. Finding a way to deal is our responsibility.yea...you are right...it just well...sometimes gets lonely in that space...and I am a "fixer" and I can't fix that

[elisedance]

I'm the third permutation - love to perform, love to watch those better than me - and no concerns for those with the envies. As said, its their problem.

You are obviously more of an 'empath' than I fasc - its nice but it must be infinitely hard work in cases where you try to fix those that are unfixable...

[fascination]

I know better than to try occupationally, but like most, I stink at it in my personal dealings...I have to regularly work the 12 steps on myself to avoid giving my power away

[Peaches]

I'm the third permutation - love to perform, love to watch those better than me - and no concerns for those with the envies. As said, its their problem.

You are obviously more of an 'empath' than I fasc - its nice but it must be infinitely hard work in cases where you try to fix those that are unfixable...I'm close to that category when it comes to AT, oddly enough. Don't know about the performing bit...want to try it, but haven't yet. But have a very strong desire to (just b/c I find it too beautiful not to share...cheesy, I know). But I can sit there and watch people better than me all night long, quite happily. And I'll get there myself, eventually.

It's only ballroom where I've got the hang-ups.

[Peaches]

well if you ever want my private 2cents worth on that dragon, I will be happy to offer it
Highly interested...

[fascination]

dh is still not home... will send you a dissertation late tonight

[skwiggy]

Don't know about the performing bit...want to try it, but haven't yet. But have a very strong desire to (just b/c I find it too beautiful not to share...cheesy, I know).

Actually, that's one of the best reasons I can think of to want to perform. :)

[Peaches]

OK. Not sure what DH's whereabouts has to do with dissertations on fast grapevines, but OK.

[fascination]

I have nothing better to do with my evening...if he was home...um...I would

[Peaches]

Ah. It's all coming together now.

[cornutt]

I know better than to try occupationally, but like most, I stink at it in my personal dealings...I have to regularly work the 12 steps on myself to avoid giving my power away

Been there. You want to help, but sometimes the ship is going to sink no matter what, and in those cases you'd better get off before you go down with it.

[fascination]

that usually occurs to me while laying at the bottom of the ocean sucking up seaweed and saltwater.... ;)

occupationally, I can smell it a mile away...even personally with those from whom I am detached...but I have to work hard to remember it with those for whom I have affection

[Peaches]

Interesting flora and fauna down there though, innit?

[fascination]

:nope:

[cornutt]

that usually occurs to me while laying at the bottom of the ocean sucking up seaweed and saltwater.... ;)



:uplaugh: And over the years, I've acquired a taste for kelp!

[fascination]

my favorite leafy green vegggie

[cornutt]

Er, back on topic... Must practice some new bolero steps tonight. I'm tired of all the ones I know!

[jwlinson]

...no practice tonight... Stupid office Christmas party...

[elisedance]

:) get drunk and dance your heart out....

practice last night - the best place. 4 couples on a full-sized floor and they do 10 or so of each standard dance in a row so you can really work on something.

We are trying to figure out the best way to start in Walz. Too often we end up in the same corner as everyone else and, as the tallest couple (by far) with the largest stride we simply can't move.

Thus, we are now planning to start instead on the beginning of the short side but that introduces new issues - that means we can not genearate as much linear movement to catch the judges eyes. The solution right now is a left whisk followed by a runaround. I think this will show up well but would love to have comments/alternative ideas. By the way, these are gold routines.

So how does everyone else deal with this?

[Peaches]

Must to add to the practicing: STOPPING the stupidly-fast grapevines.

Have been practicing in my slipper socks, b/c they're nice and slippery on the wood floor. Can get going, but stopping when I want to (w/o slowing down before-hand) is tricky. Figured out the trick is to let the energy flow up through my body, so it's absorbed, rather than letting it continue after my feet have stopped and knocking me off balance.

[elisedance]

STOPPING the stupidly-fast grapevines.


Shoudln't that be in the gardening thread? :p

[Peaches]

Shoudln't that be in the gardening thread? :pWell, yeah, but I don't need to practice stopping those. All I have to do is try to grow them, and they stop. Well, die, really. Failing that, some bleach works wonders.

[cornutt]

That would be kudzu... :D

[Peaches]

That would be kudzu... :DOh, god...kudzu... *shudder* So many horrible, horrible memories of dealing with that stuff.

[cornutt]

We are trying to figure out the best way to start in Walz. Too often we end up in the same corner as everyone else and, as the tallest couple (by far) with the largest stride we simply can't move.


I think there are two basic ways to organize a comp routine's movement around the floor: "diamond" and "pincushion". The diamond shape moves outwards at the center of each wall, and cuts inwards at the corners. The pincushion shape moves inwards at the center of each wall, and moves outward to fill up the corners.

It's been my observation that at the level I dance waltz at (beginning/intermediate silver), most couples dance a pincushion-shaped routine. Don't know if this is true at your level or not, but your description of everyone bunching up in a corner sort of suggests it. Maybe you could arrange your routine so that you are dancing more of a diamond shape; that way, you would be bypassing all of those couples who bunch up in the corner. Maybe start on a short wall with some kind of right-turning figure that leaves you in a diagonal-center orientation; that would allow you to chop off the next corner and, with some kind of travelling figure, blow past all the couples who started in the corner on that long wall.

[elisedance]

thats seems to be a great idea cornutt but I worry that if you try to do a diamond past the big clumps (no offence meant!) in the corner if they start you will just run into one couple after another. On the other hand, having some diamond sequences 'in stock' might be very useful for the lead to avoid corner crowds during the routine.

Yesterday we worked for an hour and a half almost exclusively on waltz and again visited this question. I think we are going to try to start at the beginning of the short side and see how it works out - the key I think is to put in enough time to be sure that all the long-side pincushion crowd has left so that we can then do our thing. In order to catch the judges eyes up front we are planning to put a left whisk - runaround in the centre of the short side. Of course this is all moot for semis where the most important thing is that you don't crash (we typically have 12-13 couples on the floor)!

[meow]

Studios have now closed here for the holidays. But my kitten intends to return to training early. He figures he will be ready to hit the comp floor by the time the rest and just returning to start their training. I think it is going to be one of those years.....

[elisedance]

Tell him that this is the year to really go for it. Got that feeling...

[meow]

Yes, I will tell him ED. He is rarring to go but needs to have a break. He knows this and is waiting but I keep finding him 'dancing' in the kitchen, family room, lounge......
What are next year's champions doing right now? Practicing!

[elisedance]

How much does one need lessons and how much can one achieve by yourself? 'Growing up'in the pro/am arena I have become used to the idea that you can only advance by taking more lessons. DP's view is quite different, however. He feels we can learn much of the steps and sequences by ourselves and then just get a coach in to 'ice the cake' as it were. This is a totally new idea and perspective for me and I must admit to feeling rather excited at the prospect - the thougth that we could actually take charge of our dancing ourselves.

Today we practiced stimulated by (seperately) viewing training tapes by Peter Eggington. PM picked up on the first and then I was goaded into also reviewing them (they were in my attic by the way but I have not looked at them for over 15 years). I suppose that no one here will have seen them but basically they run through 'medal' (which is equivalent I believe to syllabus) steps and routines. What is amazing about them is that the steps are semless: he and Beverly just glide from one to another without any gaps or refocus. So that was the theme for todays practice - over 2 hrs of dancing.

So where does the line between lesson and dancing lie? We are working on new thoughts and material but without any coach in sight.....

[Angel HI]

DP's view is quite different, however. He feels we can learn much of the steps and sequences by ourselves and then just get a coach in to 'ice the cake' as it were. This is a totally new idea and perspective for me and I must admit to feeling rather excited at the prospect - the thougth that we could actually take charge of our dancing ourselves.

Today we practiced stimulated by (seperately) viewing training tapes by Peter Eggington. .....

I am a huge proponent of practicing alone. One learns much from dancing in this manner and looking and listening at/to their bodies. The coachces will help you further.

I had to laugh....:p Peter Eggleton was one of my main coaches and influences during my early training years. He would giggle at being called Eggington.

[elisedance]

I am a huge proponent of practicing alone. One learns much from dancing in this manner and looking and listening at/to their bodies. The coachces will help you further.


Before getting a partner I had no idea how much pleasure there is in working without a coach. We go over and over each sequence of steps and identify where there is a lack of ballance, a loss of connection, or a roughness and then try to figure out the cause and fix it. I feel this goes beyond the strict sense of 'practice' and enters the interesting area of self-coaching. I have no delusions that the latter can replace coaching of course, but I am pretty sure it can greatly reduce formal teaching time.

I'm just so fortunate (transpose to gratitude thread :)) that DP is just as analytical as I am - indeed I'm learning that he is actually far more so. It really makes me wonder how far we might have come if we had been at this stage 35 years ago.


I had to laugh....:p Peter Eggleton was one of my main coaches and influences during my early training years. He would giggle at being called Eggington.

Durn. I've been trying to catch these - don't know why I alway sseem to type egglington (I suspect thats what I typed above and then corrected it only half way to Eggington. Eggleton, Eggleton, Eggleton. Have to do lines as in school!

Where did you take lessons from Peter? I would love to have the chance - maybe we will run into him at some point.

[waltzgirl]

Before getting a partner I had no idea how much pleasure there is in working without a coach. We go over and over each sequence of steps and identify where there is a lack of ballance, a loss of connection, or a roughness and then try to figure out the cause and fix it. I feel this goes beyond the strict sense of 'practice' and enters the interesting area of self-coaching. I have no delusions that the latter can replace coaching of course, but I am pretty sure it can greatly reduce formal teaching time.


Interesting. My pro-am teacher has included self-analysis almost from the beginning, of course only gradually increasing the level of what he expects me to analyze. By now, a big part of his teaching consists of -- we stop, he gives me a look, I think and then nod, and we do it again, with me fixing whatever I figured out was wrong. Only if I can't figure it out--or he's introducing a brand new concept--does he tell me what to do.

[elisedance]

Wow, what a coach! In the process he is making you not able to dance but also 'a dancer' for the latter can do more than perform steps but comprehends what the body must do to achieve them.

[meow]

Interesting. My pro-am teacher has included self-analysis almost from the beginning, of course only gradually increasing the level of what he expects me to analyze. By now, a big part of his teaching consists of -- we stop, he gives me a look, I think and then nod, and we do it again, with me fixing whatever I figured out was wrong. Only if I can't figure it out--or he's introducing a brand new concept--does he tell me what to do.

Kitten's coach takes a similar sort of approach. If K or DP have a problem with a step he makes them try to explain what they think or feel to him and each other. He will ask one to explain or show what is wrong and/or the correction - if the partner doesn't understand he will rephrase the explanation. He will also demonstrate by partnering each of them to let them 'feel' the incorrect and correction from the others perspective; partner kitten, but make him dance the lady's part to feel what she feels when done incorrectly and correctly and viseversa.

[etp777]

Definitely a good teaching method. As pro (or buddy teacher? Can't remember which) said. "It's so easy to teach you, you correct yourself." Now, obviously, I miss all kinds of things, that's why I stick with the lesson swith them. But yeah, you definitely (and longer you dance, more it will happen) find the mistakes yourself as you go through the things. You'll get to point where somethign just doesn't feel right. Now translating that into makign it right may take a while, i have some stuff that still isn't there. I can point to it, say somethign is wrong there, but can't manage to figure out how to fix it. Doesn't mean I stop trying though. :)

A lot of coaching and private lesson sto me is the little details. I can often feel that something isn't quite right, or even watch myself and point to something and say "Right there, my leg is wrong" but can't quite figure out what's wrong, or how to fix it. Then you'll have a lesson or a coaching, pro will say you need to turn your foot out more here, or shift your weight half a beat earlier, etc, and then it all clicks. Definitely need both (and as much as you can of each :) ) to be the best you can. now I have seen dancers get too much in way of private lessons, so they weren't learning the whole time, basically just paying for exppensive practice for a lot of it (stuff they should have been practicing on their own), but that's their choice. Not my bank account getting hurt by it. :)

[meow]

Don't get me wrong. I think coaching is always necessary. But, the best sort is one who coaches you to break down the dance, analize, explain, seek your own answers, solve your own problems. So that when you practice you are still learning and 'perfecting' - not just going through routines.

[etp777]

Here we go again. Shoes meow to have posted three minutes ago on front page, but doesn't show up when I open it. Hopefully posting this will make her post magically appear. :)

[etp777]

And there it is. :) And I absolutely agree meow. Esp if you plan on continuing to learn and improve (and if not, why the hell did you just waste your money on a coaching? :) ). Because if they don't force you to think that way, then you're not going to be able to understand what underlies what they're making you do, and to apply that lesson to other movements/steps/dances in the future. might help your coaches pocketbook as they keep having to teach you same thing for every little step, but doesn't help you really learn or improve or feel the dance. Difference between a dancer and someone who just goes through the motions. :)

[meow]

Yep:D

[DennisBeach]

So where does the line between lesson and dancing lie? We are working on new thoughts and material but without any coach in sight.....

I think using quality videos, you can do a lot on your own. Than when you are with the coach, they can find tune what you have learned. As social dancers, we found that to be an effective and economical way to improve. We learned moves and some technique from videos. During our private lessons, we focused on technique, rather than new moves.

I think a key is how well you understand dancing.

[Angel HI]

Don't get me wrong. I think coaching is always necessary. But, the best sort is one who coaches you to break down the dance, analize, explain, seek your own answers, solve your own problems. So that when you practice you are still learning and 'perfecting' - not just going through routines.

Great post!

I think using quality videos, you can do a lot on your own. As social dancers, we found that to be an effective and economical way to improve. We learned moves and some technique from videos. During our private lessons, we focused on technique, rather than new moves.

I think a key is how well you understand dancing.

Though, many do not understand that regardless of explanation, when watching most videos, one is seeing the end result of the movement, and not how (technique, kinesthetics, etc.) that movement is being executed. Your last sentence is tantamount to success. Only when one has a solid understanding of a dance, does one gain fullest from watching videos. Watch the videos...then work with a coach.

[elisedance]

Only when one has a solid understanding of a dance, does one gain fullest from watching videos. Watch the videos...then work with a coach.

This is the discovery - I tried to work with videos a long time ago and it failed as although I could easily copy the foot sequence I could not learn the action without instruction and feeling it led by a coach. Now with at least a modicum of basic technique the videos are usable to not only learn new steps and sequences but also some additional technique. Thus we have two sequences, an initial one that can, I suppose, be characterized as 'introductory dance':

1. Work with a coach,
2. Practice with partner and alone
3. Repeat 1-2 for many years (until comfortable with basic technique)

And now we are in an 'intermediate dance' stage with a sequence of:
1. Add steps and sequences from videos
2. Practice with partner
3. Repeat 1-2 until comfortable with new sequence
4. Work with coach
5. Practice with partner and alone
6. Repeat 1-5

I find that practice alone seems to be of less need now than it used to be - though it is still essential for technical upgrades and correction of errors(obviously always necessary).

[elisedance]

Footnote:


I once had an Arthur Murray 'teach yourself to dance' book that had cut-out feet shapes that you were supposed to arrange on the floor and then walk on to learn the step. At the time it seemed so knowledgeable and complete. Now the same book seems such an amazingly naive, even ludicrous concept but I suppose it was the 'training video' of its day.

[DennisBeach]

Though, many do not understand that regardless of explanation, when watching most videos, one is seeing the end result of the movement, and not how (technique, kinesthetics, etc.) that movement is being executed. Your last sentence is tantamount to success. Only when one has a solid understanding of a dance, does one gain fullest from watching videos. Watch the videos...then work with a coach.

I agree. We only started using videos after 2-3 years of private lessons and having developed an understanding of numerous dances. A small percent like Victor Veyresset explain the technical aspects, but he is one of the exceptions. Even with his tapes, you need someone to fine tune what you have learned. He tells you the technique, but you can't tell yourself, if you are doing what he teaches correctly.

[meow]

And now we are in an 'intermediate dance' stage with a sequence of:
1. Add steps and sequences from videos
2. Practice with partner
3. Repeat 1-2 until comfortable with new sequence
4. Work with coach
5. Practice with partner and alone
6. Repeat 1-5

I find that practice alone seems to be of less need now than it used to be - though it is still essential for technical upgrades and correction of errors(obviously always necessary).

In step 1, my kitten will sometimes 'create' variations of steps and create his own choreography.
Steps 1 - 5, IMO, never end. Even the World Champions in all styles continue this process of having coaching and practicing. Until your career of competing or performing is over then I think this process listed above continues.
I think video's are a good tool to use for the previously stated reasons but your own video's are very useful as well.
My kitten watches his video's after a comp to see what he couldn't see when he danced - he will analise what is wrong, see what 'felt' wrong and compare it to how it 'looked', look for where improvements need to be made, etc., He is highly critical of himself but it is useful to him.
I remember having a photo of him and DP framed and he looked at it and said something close to " not, bad. Hips are aligned, legs match, arms match, postures good and match but hands need work. Her hand is facing one way and mine is facing the other." So, I guess even photo's are useful.

[Angel HI]

ED, what an excellent post! http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=507886&postcount=97
Would that so many others come to this understanding.

I agree. A small percent like Victor Veyresset explain the technical aspects, but he is one of the exceptions.

Indeed, VV and I have worked together. May I humbly say, 'we' are. But, this is where one discovers that fine, fine, fine line between the art of technique and the science of the technical. It is difficult to not get trapped there...many great technicians believe themselves to be great dancers, but lack the art. Something else that can not be gained by video.

[elisedance]

.......I remember having a photo of him and DP framed and he looked at it and said something close to " not, bad. Hips are aligned, legs match, arms match, postures good and match but hands need work. Her hand is facing one way and mine is facing the other." So, I guess even photo's are useful.

It is surprizing considering how short a time frame a photo captures - but my coach does the same thing - a photo allows you to analyze the frame and hold in a way that videos can not and you can often see details not evident in the video - like my tendency to dance with my eyes closed...

[meow]

like my tendency to dance with my eyes closed...

I would fall over:tongue:

[etp777]

Heh, I do that a lot when I'm practicing by myself. Pros at studio always ask me who I imagine I'm dancing with that's causing me to smile like that. :) What can I say, dancing makes me smile. And I'm not telling you who I'm imagin ing. ;)

[meow]

And I'm not telling you who I'm imagin ing. ;)

Would we 'know' them?:p

[etp777]

heh. I'm not telling you either. ;) :P

[Tenehill]

Remember, no sway in reverse turns :cool:

A book I am looking at, "Modern Ballroom Dancing" by Victor Sylvester, says that there is a sway to L on steps 2 and 3, and sway to R on 5 and 6 (for men).

[elisedance]

We have had comments that we look sometimes as if we are trying too hard on the floor and one coach has recommended that we tone things down by taking smaller strides (this pertains only to standard for us). I know that may sound like the opposite to what you usually hear but we hve been experimenting. The results are very interesting.

The results depend on the dance. This has had least effect I think on FT. There the stride length is an integral part of the flow - generally shortening it has little benefit and seems to just negatively impact sway and swing. however, it has helped in certain steps such as natural turns and the hover cortee. There is a big benefit in waltz for all steps on the second beat and locks. Shortening stride allows us to spend more time on lowering and style - shaping and bringing feet together etc. Simimlary in QS - here we 'discovered' that stride length should be equal to the time of the step! How come no one has ever told us that? thus a slow generally involves a longer step than s quick. If you do that then the whole motion becomes smoother and more relaxed.

The biggest impact, however, is in tango where we were trying to cover as much floor as possible but since our basic technique was not up to the energy things looked very frantic. Cutting back in stride length allows us to be much quicker in our turns and attain much better 'tango action' while reducing flight (the tango buggaboo!).

What is most interesting is that shortening our strides paradoxically does not seem to affect our overall distances! I think what is happening is that movement is becoming a more natural result of body motion and not stride, if that makes sense.

Anyone care to comment? This particular odyssey resulted from scrutiny of a set of ancient Peter Eggleton tapes, trying to find out what makes him so increadibly smooth.

[elisedance]

We have had comments that we look sometimes as if we are trying too hard on the floor and one coach has recommended that we tone things down by taking smaller strides .....

....Anyone care to comment? This particular odyssey resulted from scrutiny of a set of ancient Peter Eggleton tapes, trying to find out what makes him so increadibly smooth.

I thought this was interesting (edited to save space here) but maybe I was being simple minded - or maybe everyone is just waking up from a holiday stupour :) :rolleyes:

[jennyisdancing]

Footnote:


I once had an Arthur Murray 'teach yourself to dance' book that had cut-out feet shapes that you were supposed to arrange on the floor and then walk on to learn the step. At the time it seemed so knowledgeable and complete. Now the same book seems such an amazingly naive, even ludicrous concept but I suppose it was the 'training video' of its day.

Omigosh! I actually spotted and bought that book in a used bookshop. Is this the one you're referring to? The book doesn't have life size feet to cut out from the pages, but it does tell you to trace your own feet to make the cut-outs.

The pic below is one from ebay, not my own copy. Mine was published in 1948, and I love the illustrations, especially for the fashions of the time. As far as dance technique is concerned, the book is very interesting to me. The feet pattern thing is corny, and the book is quite dated in some ways, but it actually has a lot of good advice. It includes very clear explanations of how to dance to the beat and rhythm of different kinds of music; exercises to improve balance; tips for tall and short followers; dance etiquette, etc.

http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/a2/97/6020_1.JPG

[elisedance]

Wow. Unfortunately :( I lost my dance book collection during my last move...

[jennyisdancing]

Wow. Unfortunately :( I lost my dance book collection during my last move...


Check Amazon, it looks like you can get the book easily, and it's pretty cheap.

One of the most interesting pieces of advice in the book, is to tell women they should learn to lead. I say it's interesting because the book reflects the attitudes of the time (they don't even use the word 'women', they're called 'girls'!) Then they add that "of course" they are not referring to women leading men, but rather, women leading other women just for practice. The book says this will help ladies improve their following skills.

The book is very specific in saying that followers shouldn't just blindly follow without learning steps, but that they should learn their own parts and the leader's parts as well. They still have to follow, but Murray's point is that the lady will be better able to follow and execute a step smoothly and without hesitation if it's been practiced and is in her muscle memory. I would agree with that.

[Angel HI]

What is most interesting is that shortening our strides paradoxically does not seem to affect our overall distances! I think what is happening is that movement is becoming a more natural result of body motion and not stride, if that makes sense.

Anyone care to comment? This particular odyssey resulted from scrutiny of a set of ancient Peter Eggleton tapes, trying to find out what makes him so increadibly smooth.

It makes one h@## of a lot of sense. As we have mentioned before, Peter was onr of my primary coaches, and I have been trying to teach this point forever. What is happening is that movement occurs even when there is no step. Dance is part step / part momentum. The momentum comes from sway, rotation, rise, lower, etc. Bill Irvine taught what he coined as "monumental stillness" as the movement in the stillness. I love it!

[Angel HI]

http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/a2/97/6020_1.JPG

I hope 'Me' finds this thread. She has an interesting (and quite funny) story about something in this book.

[elisedance]

We need to call her over
ME!!

[elisedance]

Tonight my legs just seemed to give out - and I have not been dancing that much either. We met for an hour at the studio and then drove over to a social club for on- floor practice. It was great tonight with not too many couples and most dances we could do our entire routines (at least in pieces) without any real chance of bothering anyone. Trouble was about half way through the evening my legs just got tired and i could not dance well - lowerings and movement were just crap.

As I recall, this has happened once before a while back - anyone a clue as to what causes it - or if I should I be concerned?

[waltzgirl]

Were you hydrated? My muscles tell me right away if I haven't been drinking enough water.

[elisedance]

Yes I think so. Maybe I'm coming down with a cold - I kind of hope so. The dreaded alternative for me is... dare I say it... whisper (age).

One interesting thing is that dancing has become much easier for us - physically I mean. As we have become more ballanced and more together we dance and hardly feel we've had a workout (normally) - I wonder if I'm actuall not getting enough excersize even with 5 hrs dance a week.

[and123]

I'm fighting a cold and was supposed to have a lesson today. Practiced with partner for almost an hour, but then starting having pains in my abdomen. Bizarre. Couldn't continue dancing, so he took the lesson alone while I sat and watched and tried to relax away the pain. Felt kinda dizzy and faint for a while there too. I'm fine now, so perhaps I just pushed myself too hard while being sick and too soon after not having a full-out practice session since before Christmas.

But yeah, I'll echo the sentiment that it sucks to get older.

[waltzgirl]

One interesting thing is that dancing has become much easier for us - physically I mean. As we have become more ballanced and more together we dance and hardly feel we've had a workout (normally) - I wonder if I'm actuall not getting enough excersize even with 5 hrs dance a week.

If you've been shortening your stride and letting body motion contribute more to your dancing, you are working less--but in a good way! Maybe it also uses your muscles in a different way, which might account for the leg tiredness.

[elisedance]

Its a thought WG. I think I will up the mild excersize though - walking or something and see if it just goes away...

[meow]

Just having a couple of weeks off dancing and then getting back into it - it is amazing how quickly you 'feel' the pain of not dancing. Hope I made sense.

[cornutt]

Practiced waltz left turns yesterday. Did at least 50 of them. I've figured out that where I'm having problems is with the transitions between clsoed and promenade -- not just in this step, but everywhere. Getting the head, upper body, and hips all coordinated is still eluding me.

[and123]

Trying to figure out why you'd be in promenade whilst doing left turns :confused:. Can you describe this step? Maybe I'm just visualizing a completely different step here.

[cornutt]

Trying to figure out why you'd be in promenade whilst doing left turns :confused:. Can you describe this step? Maybe I'm just visualizing a completely different step here.

Open left turn, silver American. Here's my understanding of the positions involved:

Step 1: closed, forward step
Step 2: transition to promenade pos.
Step 3: fallaway
Step 4: transition to closed, back step
Step 5: transition to promenade pos.
Step 6: promenade

[wooh]

Practiced for 10 minutes in my new 3 inch latin heels yesterday. They're so pretty and so comfortable, until you wear them for 10 minutes, hehe! Will have to get used to the change from 2 inch heels.
Practiced a bit of paso. Oh how we suck at it! But it's fun. And a change from the usual. Kind of fun learning something from scratch again, learning instead of improving/perfecting for a change.

[elisedance]

why did you change form 2 to 3 inch heels wooh? For me , everything seems harder the higher the heel - how do you do toe-heel steps?

[wooh]

It's an adjustment, but not seeming impossible at this point. Especially since I'm a size 10 US, so it's not as big of a change as it would be for someone with smaller feet. Biggest reason I'm changing, is I found a pair of pretty shoes on sale for a very good price that were so comfortable trying them on, I didn't realize they were 3 inch until I got home. And it's just for when we do rhythm/latin showcase sorts of things, so I won't be wearing them for hours on end killing my feet. I just have to get used to them. Which a little at a time will do.:)

[and123]

Open left turn, silver American. Here's my understanding of the positions involved:

Step 1: closed, forward step
Step 2: transition to promenade pos.
Step 3: fallaway
Step 4: transition to closed, back step
Step 5: transition to promenade pos.
Step 6: promenade

*blink*blink* Hmmm, that doesn't resemble the open left turn I know in Am. Smooth. Seems kinda like open twinkle to fallaway, but some key steps are missing.

At any rate.... I have found the key to good promenade positions is "think sideways". NOT forwards. If you feel twisted, you're doing it right :cool:

[Angel HI]

Open left turn, silver American. Here's my understanding of the positions involved:

Step 1: closed, forward step
Step 2: transition to promenade pos.
Step 3: fallaway
Step 4: transition to closed, back step
Step 5: transition to promenade pos.
Step 6: promenade

*blink*blink* Hmmm, that doesn't resemble the open left turn I know in Am. Smooth. Seems kinda like open twinkle to fallaway....
I have found the key to good promenade positions is "think sideways". NOT forwards. If you feel twisted, you're doing it right

Agreed, in theory if not technically (for the sake of those who might wish to get too technical). Cornutt, to say differently what 123 posted, do not think promenade. In your description, replace all promenades with "side remaining in closed". Hope it helps.

[Joe]

Um. I thought American open left turns had a continuity ending, i.e. OP. I suppose if you were a contortionist you could do it, but otherwise it's impossible to be both in PP and OP.

[fascination]

lately practicing pivots...difficult w/out partner...also spot voltas and various other types of torment

[elisedance]

fasc!! welcome back, how was the trip? Or should I look esewhere...

[fascination]

excellent ...was just excellent...off to a serious soak though...and hitting the ground running tomorrow

[elisedance]

everytime I get into the bath I thikn - oh my, this is wonderful. Then I think, oh why don't I do this more often. And then, then... then I don't.

[elisedance]

super practice yesterday - working on follow based on R side connection and not anticipating.

We sometimes end up in 'discussions' as to whether I am going in the correct direction. DP says I should know my angle, I say he should set it up right or not expect me to follow. This is an amazing period where I am ceding my inner pilot to his lead. Actually, he is getting awfully good at it and I can spend more and more time working on my frame and shaping. Dancing feels awfully good right now - I hope the judges will agree...

[samina]

no time or place for practice, these days... really sucks. am nabbing every moment in between busy life to make improvements.

thing is... am improving. just wish i could dig in more right now. *sigh* this phase will eventually end, i know...

[elisedance]

"am nabbing"

is dyslexia catching? thats something I would write...:cool:

[Joe]

Why is it dyslexia?

[elisedance]

maybe I missed Joe - I assumed it was supposed to read napping?

[and123]

At first glance I thought so too, but I think if Samina could get by without sleeping at all, she would. Hence, she is NABBING every dance opportunity she can. I think....:rolleyes: (I agree, the keyboard dyslexia on DF can be quite amusing)

[samina]

is dyslexia catching? thats something I would write...

no dyslexia:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=nab&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nab#sharethis) nab http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fnab) /næb/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nab] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object), nabbed, nab·bing. Informal. 1.to arrest or capture. 2.to catch or seize, esp. suddenly. 3.to snatch or steal.
[Origin: 1675–85; earlier nap; perh. < Scand; cf. Dan nappe, Norw, Sw nappa to snatchhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

[fascination]

today....samba technichique quad through rib cage...spot voltas...more arm stuff in international rumba...and more practice on pivots for FT...plus a 75min workout and a two hour lesson...can't freaking walk now

[samina]

no wonder... sounds like you're doing your own practice & workouts... plus mine...

[Peaches]

Wanna do mine, too? If not the practice (I know you think AT is like watching cement set.), at least the working out?

[fascination]

I feel that way about watching AT...not about dancing it

[Peaches]

I feel that way about watching AT...not about dancing itOh. Well then.

I'll still keep my AT practice, though. I enjoy it.

But can you do some working out for me? I can handle the eating well part (well, mostly), but the exercising...blech. Just 20-25 lbs, that's all I ask.

[elisedance]

AT is like watching cement set

Thats pretty funny. And look how I changed your meaning by editing your quote :evil:

[disclaimer: P actually loves AT :)]
[disclaimer 2: I love to watch AT!]

[Peaches]

Thats pretty funny. And look how I changed your meaning by editing your quote :evil:

[disclaimer: P actually loves AT :)]
[disclaimer 2: I love to watch AT!]:-)

Cement setting, grass growing, paint drying...pick your simile. (Or is that a metaphor? Dang, I aught to know this. Brain fart.)

[fascination]

Oh. Well then.

I'll still keep my AT practice, though. I enjoy it.

But can you do some working out for me? I can handle the eating well part (well, mostly), but the exercising...blech. Just 20-25 lbs, that's all I ask.
I'll work out for you...but I can't guarantee weight loss:rolleyes:

[elisedance]

practiced first lightening the contact. I never thought I would do this with all the emphaiss on creating a secure contact to allow effective following. However, for some reason I was able to lighten this to almost nothing.

I once heard a british champion (I think it was Marcus hilton) say that the contact should be always there but no stronger than would hold a piece of paper up. thats what it felt like this afternoon. We practiced this in QS, FT and Wz with what felt like amazing results.

we also shortened the stride (again) and played with increasing sway - DP has become awfullly good at it and now we actually wondered if we were doing too much. Sunday morning we are going to have a breakfast brain storming session looking at youtube ballroom at the YCC. Can't wait... hope we don't get too confused for the comp that evening!

[waltzgirl]

I always feel I follow better with a hold that "breathes."

[elisedance]

Up to now i have preferred a relatively secure hold - thats whats so interesting. I think we are developing as a couple so that we are starting to trust each other and that is permitting us to let go a bit. Before having one, I don't think I ever really knew what a dance partner was - it seriously challenges the benefits of a life partner :)

the other big change we are going through is to stop working for competitions and instead use those (as phrased by DP) as laboratories to test what we are doing. We have become much more self-managing and reliant and much less so no coaches in general - though obviously we still rely on them a lot we are developing into dance sprot 'consumers' to use a lousy term.

[elisedance]

amiko - dug up one of the old practice threads - there is a wealth of info burried in the DF store houses that may have good ideas for you.

while I'm at it - we go to a large (full comp size) studio where one couple rents the space and we all pay a floor fee for an excellent two hour session of mostly standard. Its one of those gems that are probably present in most areas but can be very hard to locate. What I've noticed is that a few people seem to be turning up just to watch (they don't pay). Its irritating me a bit. I think there are two reasons - one is I feel a bit uncomfortable 'debating' a point with my partner and I also feel as if they are getting instruction for free (though how much one can learn by just watching I don't really know).

Should I be bothered or am I being too sensitive?

[samina]

Should I be bothered or am I being too sensitive?

Too sensitive. No worries...use the feeling of being watched to your benefit.
And if they learn something...kudos to both sides. You know hard it is to really learn anything in ballroom...

[elisedance]

regular practice on the big floor this evening - regular except for one respect - we did one of those ratchet things.

After several weeks of doing essentially the same things and perhaps gradually improving - inching really - tonight was just totally different. We danced better than ever - it was a 'quantal' step up. I know why too, all of a sudden we are lowering into the steps and its happeneing in all of the (standard) dances. Its easier, we feel like a couple and its also very timely.

Wow. Wish one had such sensations more often!