Not getting asked to dance--suggestions? [Archive]

Statlady

12-16-2007, 01:37 AM

I'm sure there are tons of threads around about this. I was just reading suburbaknght's thread about dress color and then his thread about "How to get asked to dance." I figured I'd post anyway with my specific situation and see if anyone has suggestions for me. I went to my studio's weekly party last night and I think I only got asked to dance to about 1 in 5 songs. I'd prefer to dance to every song, though I know that's unrealistic. I'm not sure what the problem is, though I've sort of been a wallflower all my life. In high school I was convinced that I must be ugly because I never got asked to dance or out on dates. People tell me that I'm reasonably attractive, and although I've recently had twins, I'm in pretty good shape. Really, though, I would hope dance invitations are not based too much on attractiveness.

At my studio, pretty much everybody stakes out a table in advance and sits at their table whenever they're not dancing. The only people who circulate constantly are the men who want to dance every dance and the teachers. Most people don't stand around either--I've tried that before and I end up feeling very silly just standing all by myself somewhere.

I wear good shoes--nice sturdy practice shoes. They're not pretty, but they make me feel more steady on my feet. I always wear a skirt because I don't like dancing in pants and I always do my hair and makeup (something that doesn't happen most other days). I am quite a bit younger than most of the other students (29 compared to 45+). I don't know if that has anything to do with it. Also, I am married . . . but I never have my husband with me . . . could that be a reason people don't ask me?

I like to think that I'm friendly and that I smile, but I am kind of a shy person, so maybe I don't do that as much as I should. It's not like I can change my personality much, though. I don't really have any friends at the studio; I'm sort of new there. Although there is an open bar at the parties, I never drink anything except water.

Perhaps the main problem is that I am fairly new to the studio and I don't get to as many group classes as I'd like (generally one a week--two if I'm lucky). I am starting to get to know some of the guys from my group classes, so maybe I'll get more invitations as time goes on. I surely hope the reason isn't that I'm not a good follower. I don't know a ton of patterns, but I do know the basic steps and a few patterns for pretty much every dance . . . well, except bolero, quick step, and Viennese waltz.

OK, it's late and I think I'm rambling. The bottom line here is that I'd like to dance more than I am. I'm really not comfortable asking guys to dance unless I know them pretty well. Usually, I sit at a table right next to the floor and face out toward the dance floor. When I'm not dancing, I watch other dancers and try to learn through observation. I don't think I've ever sat through a song without somehow moving in time with it--it's just in my blood or something. What's a poor wallflower to do??

Larinda McRaven

12-16-2007, 01:57 AM

The bottom line here is that I'd like to dance more than I am. I'm really not comfortable asking guys to dance unless I know them pretty well.

Well if the guys think the same way...then there is your answer. If you don't know them well enough to ask, then they don't know you well enough either! I think time is the factor here, and luckily it is on your side. Just keep going to the group classes, parties and meeting new people. That way everyone widens their prospective circle of partners.

I personally don't think it has anything to do with being married. When I social dance I wouldn't care if someone is married, unless the spouse is there and they say "hey this is my S.O." I wouldn't even know. So unless you are talking a lot about your husband and how jealous he is of your dancing with other men... I would bet that is not a factor.

As I recall from before you were hesitant to spend large amounts of time on lessons. But realize that the more time you spend at a studio the more you become meshed into that circle of dancers. Dancers constantly notice each other and keep track (probably subconciously) who is who and where they see each other, who is taking lessons, who is getting better. Peer bonding is important. So if you remian on the outside of all of the extra activites that they are taking part in, your intoduction into that circle of friends will be much slower. You can't realisticaly show up at a party and hope that you will be greeted the same way that they greet other people they have seen regularly (sometimes for years) at parties, groups, privates, competitions, etc. It can be slow but I really think it is just a matter of time and putting yourself out there on a regular basis until you are easily recognized and known.

waltzgirl

12-16-2007, 02:14 AM

Just keep at it. IME, it takes a while to become a familiar face and get asked regularly. It sounds like you're doing everything right, but you might take another look at your body language. You might have developed "wallflower"-type habits when you were younger that still hang on. Do you sit forward in your chair? Are your arms open, not crossed? Do you make eye contact and smile at guys who walk by? I'm pretty shy, too, and I had to train myself to project a more open and interested look.

It sounds like you're still something of a beginner. People do often ask more experienced dancers to dance. As you learn and improve, guys will ask more often. I've been dancing a few years, and I now get asked plenty. (And I was younger and thinner back when I wasn't being asked so often!)

Try to get used to asking guys to dance. They can be shy, too, you know? You can certainly ask anyone who's ever asked you to dance. Guys appreciate that. Especially if you are reserved, they may not be sure you enjoyed the dance when they asked and wonder if they should ask again.

But the key really is just to keep showing up and keep learning to dance.

jwlinson

12-16-2007, 02:26 AM

Poke and prod at the husband, get him to come to lessons and parties with you!

Before I started dancing, I too was very shy. Dancing has changed much of that, to the point where I'm comfortable asking others to dance.

You could try making a few friends from your classes, maybe sitting at their table or whatnot. It's hard when you're shy, but you'll get over that pretty soon!

DWise1

12-16-2007, 04:44 AM

I agree with Larinda that taking group classes helps to introduce you to prospective partners at the dances. Being a shy guy, I tend to ask the women I already know. Not just because I'm shy, but also because if I don't know you I also don't know what dances you know. I've found this especially true in salsa where I'm not too secure yet and an inexperienced follow ends up making me wonder whether I am totally incompetent.

Also, being an older guy (56 and newly single) I am more reluctant to ask a woman who's considerably younger than I am. Part of not wanting to appear to be a dirty old man. Go ahead and consider it weird, but it is a consideration. But less of one if I already know her from class.

Tzah

12-16-2007, 05:01 AM

Every place you go will have a clique. Clique has such a bad connotation to it, but that's what it actually is- a group of people who like each other, and prefer to socialize only or mostly with the people within the group.

It's so hard to "break into" one of them. Some of us spend our entire lives trying to "get in", and are never really sure whether we are or not.

It might just take time. It was two years at our studio before people started saying hello to us when they saw us at restaurants, in stores, at other parties, etc.

tsb

12-16-2007, 05:35 AM

as i don't know how large the dance is nor what percentages there are in terms of gender balance, distribution of experience, etc. i could only offer generalizations which i prefer not to do in this case.

why not:

1) ask someone in class if you can join them at their table for the next dance? and do that for the next 3-4 dances (asking different people) and that should increase the possibilities of... cross pollination?
2) describe your situation to your instructors and ask for honest feedback, with the caveat that you promise not to be offended by any observations that they make? for whatever reason, getting asked only once in five dances might be a reasonable expectation for your circumstances.

Wyndstorm Huntress

12-16-2007, 07:02 AM

I'm in a very similar situation to yours. I've only been dancing for 3 months, and still don't feel confident about my ability to dance. I'm also somewhat of a wallflower when it comes to socializing in general, although that is an area I've made serious efforts to improve.

As far as getting asked to dance is concerned, things are getting better. I am asking more people to dance, and I'm getting asked more to dance at my regular dances. At the latest party I attended, I sat out maybe a fourth of the songs, and most of the time, it was because it was a dance I was not familiar with. That's not a bad ratio, for me at least.

A couple of things helped. Asking fellow beginners to dance (such as the ones from your classes) helps. They're just as nervous as you are about asking people to dance, and I'm sure it's a relief for them that they get to dance as well. The way I see it, your fellow beginner dancers will be your future regular social partners as you all advance in level, so it doesn't hurt to start networking now.

Talking to other follows helps as well. At one dance I attended, I mentioned to one of the follows that I was new and still a little uncomfortable asking guys to dance. She mentioned it to one of her regular partners, who asked me to dance. Then he recommended me to another regular, and word spread around to everyone there that the newbie could use some partners to dance with. I went from sitting out most of the first hour to dancing every song I was able to dance to by the end of the night.

Also consider trying to chat with those circulators you've observed - the ones who like to dance every dance. This is something that I'm still working on myself. You don't have to ask them to dance right up front, but sharing a little friendly banter helps you to become more noticeable. And, mentioning the whole, "I'm new," thing will almost always get you a dance from the really good leads who truly are there to dance.

I realize that all of these suggestions require breaking out of your shell. Believe me, I know exactly what it's like to be shy as I used to be painfully shy myself. Mentioning that I'm new and still a beginner to people has a number of benefits - People are more eager to dance with me, they're more keen on giving compliments (which totally boosts the confidence...not saying that's why I tell people I'm new, though!), and it will improve your skills faster.

That for me was my biggest roadblock - not feeling "good enough" to ask people to dance. Ask them anyway. I'm discovering more and more that many folks remember how they were first starting out, and have way more patience to dance with newbies than I originally thought they would. You'll still find your bad apples (see my thread on social dancing with advanced dancers), but don't let them discourage you.

Just keep swimming...or dancing in this case. There was a point where I became insanely frustrated with it all, to where I was ready to swear off going to parties until I felt sure I was good enough to attend them. Shortly after that was the point where things started to turn around. Be patient, and it will get better.

suburbaknght

12-16-2007, 09:52 AM

I'm going to echo everything Wyndstorm said as I know she's been testing out a lot of these theories lately and we've been talking about which ones work.

The only thing I want to add is to reinforce chatting with people, but not just the circulators. If you don't feel comfortable asking someone to dance just try a "Hi, how are you?" Topics of conversation:

"Tell me, are you new here, too?"
"Tell me how you got into dancing."
"Tell me, what's your favorite dance?"

Any of these starts a conversation and just about any conversation at a dance event leads to dancing.

Wyndstorm Huntress

12-16-2007, 10:14 AM

Yes, listen to suburbaknght, as he has supported me tremendously as I go through the process of getting over my own dance shyness. Though I would like to point out that his "red dress" theory is not applicable to a winter holiday party where every woman is wearing a red dress. ;)

Another suggestion - This may not be applicable to your party, but it has worked from what I saw at the last party I attended, and I'm curious if it will hold true to future parties I attend. Try staying until the end of the dance. At my studio's parties, there are almost always more follows than leads. Eventually the extra follows get tired of sitting out and leave for the night. Then the gender balance evens out.

Of course, this usually means only the most hard core dancers are staying until the end, but that could provide a great learning opportunity for you.

Statlady

12-16-2007, 12:52 PM

As I recall from before you were hesitant to spend large amounts of time on lessons. But realize that the more time you spend at a studio the more you become meshed into that circle of dancers.

If I could, I'd go to classes every night of the week. At my studio, the group classes and parties are unlimited, so money is not an issue right now (since I've already paid for my membership). The main issue is that I have 4 1/2-month-old twins to take care of and a husband who works many, many hours. It does make sense, though, that the more I go, the more I will become incorporated into the circle.

You might have developed "wallflower"-type habits when you were younger that still hang on. Do you sit forward in your chair? Are your arms open, not crossed? Do you make eye contact and smile at guys who walk by? I'm pretty shy, too, and I had to train myself to project a more open and interested look.

It sounds like you're still something of a beginner. People do often ask more experienced dancers to dance. As you learn and improve, guys will ask more often. I've been dancing a few years, and I now get asked plenty. (And I was younger and thinner back when I wasn't being asked so often!)

Try to get used to asking guys to dance. They can be shy, too, you know? You can certainly ask anyone who's ever asked you to dance. Guys appreciate that. Especially if you are reserved, they may not be sure you enjoyed the dance when they asked and wonder if they should ask again.

I try very hard not to cross my arms and legs, since that is my natural tendency and I know it's bad body language. The one thing I don't do very much is make eye contact and smile. I always smile if somebody makes eye contact with me, but I tend to avert my gaze if the person isn't looking right at me. I guess I don't want to seem too eager or something . . . I'm not sure what it is. I've had that problem all my life. I thought about that at the dance, in fact, but I just can't seem to do it!

I'm a beginner . . . sort of. I took 3 semesters of ballroom dance in college where I learned many bronze and silver patterns. That was 8 years ago, however, so I've forgotten most of it. I think I know a lot of dances compared to most beginners. For example, I know west coast swing and samba which most beginners don't get taught at my studio. I'm not very confident in my ability to follow a weak lead, however. That's not a criticism of the leaders by any means. I have very little trouble following the teachers, but the other students I have trouble with sometimes. I hope that doesn't make them not want to dance with me.

As far as asking guys to dance goes . . . . besides my shyness getting in the way, the other issue I have with that is it seems that most of the guys who want to dance are already on their way to ask someone when the music starts. Most of the men don't just stand around.

Poke and prod at the husband, get him to come to lessons and parties with you!

HA HA HA! Very funny! That's never going to happen, my friend. Besides, if he comes with me, who will watch the baby twins?

Also, being an older guy (56 and newly single) I am more reluctant to ask a woman who's considerably younger than I am. Part of not wanting to appear to be a dirty old man. Go ahead and consider it weird, but it is a consideration. But less of one if I already know her from class.

No, I don't think that's weird. That's exactly what I was wondering about.

1) ask someone in class if you can join them at their table for the next dance? and do that for the next 3-4 dances (asking different people) and that should increase the possibilities of... cross pollination?
2) describe your situation to your instructors and ask for honest feedback, with the caveat that you promise not to be offended by any observations that they make? for whatever reason, getting asked only once in five dances might be a reasonable expectation for your circumstances.

Excellent ideas. I'd actually already considered the second one. The first suggestion I hadn't thought of. Like I said, I'm starting to get to know some of the men from my group classes that are around my same ability level. I suppose I could ask one of them if I could sit at their table . . . . or at least try. The shyness again gets in my way. I think that's something I might be able to do, though. Other than shyness, the main thing that makes me hesitant to do it is if they are already sitting and socializing with other people that I don't really know. Then I think "Why would they want me to join them?"

Talking to other follows helps as well. At one dance I attended, I mentioned to one of the follows that I was new and still a little uncomfortable asking guys to dance. She mentioned it to one of her regular partners, who asked me to dance. Then he recommended me to another regular, and word spread around to everyone there that the newbie could use some partners to dance with. I went from sitting out most of the first hour to dancing every song I was able to dance to by the end of the night.

Oddly enough, I often have more trouble talking to other follows since I don't really get a chance to interact with them. Also, some of the older ladies look at me funny when I try to talk to them. There is one younger girl who I'd put at around 25 who seems to know quite a few people and is definitely not shy. Maybe I should try to make friends with her. Sometimes I get intimidated by the "popular" people, though.

The only thing I want to add is to reinforce chatting with people, but not just the circulators. If you don't feel comfortable asking someone to dance just try a "Hi, how are you?" Topics of conversation:

"Tell me, are you new here, too?"
"Tell me how you got into dancing."
"Tell me, what's your favorite dance?"

Any of these starts a conversation and just about any conversation at a dance event leads to dancing.

This has been the bane of my existence my entire teenage/adult life. I absolutely cannot go up to somebody and start a conversation unless I know them really well. I have this problem in every social situation I'm in. It's really horrible . . . . maybe I need therapy. ;)

fascination

12-16-2007, 02:28 PM

This has been the bane of my existence my entire teenage/adult life. I absolutely cannot go up to somebody and start a conversation unless I know them really well. I have this problem in every social situation I'm in. It's really horrible . . . . maybe I need therapy. ;)nope...you just need to redefine yourself

elisedance

12-16-2007, 02:42 PM

To what and how? Or is that the $6oK question...

fascination

12-16-2007, 03:11 PM

to what you want to be...by doing what it takes to get there

waltzgirl

12-16-2007, 03:30 PM

Set yourself small goals each time you go to a party:

Make eye contact and smile at one guy.

Start a conversation with one person, someone sitting next to you or someone you run into near the bar. Plan ahead to ask something simple like "Do you come to these parties a lot?" with a follow-up question like "How long have you been dancing?"

Don't concern yourself with the outcome, even if the guy doesn't smile back or the conversation dies after your question is answered. This is about you, and just doing it makes you a success.

Statlady

12-16-2007, 10:38 PM

Thanks, waltzgirl. I think that is good advice. I'll work on it. :)

TangoTricia

12-17-2007, 12:56 PM

Hugh sympathy, here: the one thing that might someday have me give up partner dance is the whole getting partners thing. Striking up a conversation is one way that works well for me, especially when its a genuine question rather than an excuse to beg for a dance.

Have you tried asking potential leaders how they like this music? It gives an opening to talk about something, but is not too far away from the actual topic of dancing to it. It can also help the leader, who may not enjoy the current stuff and does, after all, have the job of leading to it. Whats the worst that can happen, he says he prefers <XXX> and then the next one of those that comes along, you smile at him, you both laugh and you have your invitation and he has been under no pressure.

Can you think about this as a part of the dance that you have to master, and practice it as often as you can? Better that than having it be anything to do with school dances and being a wallflower. All the best, T.

Indiana_Jay

12-17-2007, 01:30 PM

jennyisdancing

12-17-2007, 02:10 PM

One more thought to consider:

It's not uncommon for extroverted folks to misinterpret the natural behavior of us introverted types as aloof, unfriendly, even snobbish. When we avoid making eye contact with someone, that gets interpreted as "she doesn't like me" or "he doesn't want me to talk to him" as often (if not more often) than "she's shy."

I know this from personal experience. I'm an introvert (my MBTI score proves it) and generally bashful around people I don't know (although I've gotten less so lately). I've been told I'm "difficult to get to know," in part because I don't often volunteer information about myself during conversations. Why? Because I assume (often incorrectly) the others don't really care to know.

We can't expect the extroverts among us to suddenly become aware of what's going on inside our heads and to therefore stop misinterpreting our behavior as unapproachable or unfriendly. It is incumbent on us to find a way past our self-esteem issues, get over our fears and begin, at least in some small way, doing things like establishing eye contact, being the first to smile, and being the first to reach our our hands with a friendly "Hi, I'm [insert your name here]!" As difficult as this can be, it's the only way.

-IJ

Ditto. And in fact, the majority of folks at my local dances are shy people who took up dancing because they wanted to get themselves out of the house to meet others. i.e., a lot of them start dancing to help 'cure' their shyness. But dancing doesn't magically make anyone more comfortable talking to people. So you end up with a ballroom full of people who are all too shy to start up a conversation! I think we all need to make more effort. It's not easy.

And Statlady, I'm just amazed that you are able to leave your house at all with young twins at home. I'm glad your husband is being helpful; he must be a real sweetie to watch the babies while you spend an evening at a dance without him. I'm a mom too and I know just how hard it is to get out, and when you do get out, you want to make the most of your time and not just sit there.

Unfortunately it's a catch 22 because basically, the more you out dancing, the more people will get to know you, and then they'll ask you more. But because you can't go out frequently due to family obligations, they can't get to know you as well as someone who has no kids at home and goes out dancing several nights a week. As you've noticed, you're younger than most other students. People tend to get more involved in dancing when their kids are grown and out of the house. This has happened to me. My dance time was very limited with my son at home. Now that he's started college, I go out a lot more, and it's been a quicker process to get to know people. While the kids are still at home, you just do whatever you can manage, and try to break the ice a little bit at a time.

I would also suggest finding a practice partner to go to dances with. See if you can ask someone who's in your classes. You will probably have to make the first move; a guy might be reluctant to ask a married lady to be his dance partner because he doesn't know if the lady's husband is okay with it. Or you could go to the teacher and ask him/her to suggest a good partner for you. Good luck, you sound like a lovely person, Statlady.

Indiana_Jay

12-17-2007, 02:20 PM

etp777

12-17-2007, 02:23 PM

It is a problem that is slowly self correcting, as even those of us who are shy (I'm sure on that list), eventually open up and start talking to people, and no longer sitting on sidelines.

I haven't read this whole thread, but another thing I did (by accident, and regretted it a bit ;) ) was to mention something to pro about not dancing very much. She then started suggesting to some of the follows that they ask me to dance. And of course at my last party before I left for this country, she had to make an announcement at start of party that it was my last day and that women shouldn't let me sit out ANY of the dances. :P

Ron Obvious

12-17-2007, 02:42 PM

Shyness: no such thing. You only *think* you are shy.

jennyisdancing

12-17-2007, 02:48 PM

And a thought about followers asking leaders to dance:

One of the coolest things about our local ballroom scene that I discovered fairly quickly is that people almost never get turned down. The newest beginner can ask the most advanced dancer for a dance and get an affirmative response. It is so unlike the culture of my younger days (e.g. high school dances, etc.)

Following the example of others, my LW and I make it our policy never to turn anyone down, even when we're tired.

I assume this attitude is common in the ballroom scenes in other communities and hope it will help ease your fears of asking others to dance.

-IJ

Sadly, Jay, you cannot assume this friendly attitude is everywhere. My local dance scene is not like that. People do get turned down. Or the more advanced dancers make it clear that they do not want to get asked by people outside their clique (e.g., they and their clique sit apart from others, they don't mingle and will look away when you try to make eye contact). By chance, if a beginner does manage to get a yes from an advanced dancer, the A.D. uses obvious body language to show they are bored and just enduring it. This stinks, IMO. That's why I ended up mainly just arranging a group of friends where we are free to mingle with others (and make an effort to do so), but we will dance amongst each other as sort of a fallback if no one else is friendly.

Angel HI

12-17-2007, 03:28 PM

Sadly, Jay, you cannot assume this friendly attitude is everywhere. My local dance scene is not like that. People do get turned down. Or the more advanced dancers make it clear that they do not want to get asked by people outside their clique (e.g., they and their clique sit apart from others, they don't mingle and will look away when you try to make eye contact). By chance, if a beginner does manage to get a yes from an advanced dancer, the A.D. uses obvious body language to show they are bored and just enduring it. This stinks, IMO.

JID, this is, without a doubt, one of the saddest posts I have ever read.
First of all, what you are describing is just plain rude and shows an incredible lack of class on the parts of the so-called advanced dancers. Secondly, and probably the saddest element, is that these persons are not, nor will ever really be, advanced dancers.

When one, beginner through advanced, comes to the point of really understanding and feeling the dance, such a joy perpetuates within them that it is impossible to have the type of attitudes that you have described. This is not to say that one is obligated to dance with whomever whenever one is asked. However, there is a joy and a sense often indescribable about being a part of a group of persons sharing the same understandings and feelings (like the DF). All else seems quite pretentious and most unfulfilling to me. Without being able to understand/feel these things, I do not see how one could ever truly become anything past novice participater.

That's why I ended up mainly just arranging a group of friends where we are free to mingle with others (and make an effort to do so), but we will dance amongst each other as sort of a fallback if no one else is friendly.

As you should. As difficult as it might be to empathize with ill human behaviors, know that there is much more to be gained from your little group than dancing with the, in this case, self-labled and quite misguided 'advanced dancers'. You will find, that in record time, they will be envious of, and wishing to dance with, you.

skwiggy

12-17-2007, 03:45 PM

Shyness: no such thing. You only *think* you are shy.

Spoken like a true extrovert. :p

skwiggy

12-17-2007, 03:48 PM

There are a lot of really great suggestions in this thread.

I too am a shy person who has trouble asking someone I don't know to dance, or starting a conversation with someone I don't know. I have found that in order to get up the courage, it helps to reframe the situation in my mind. Imagine that the person I am approaching is shy, and it is my job to make him or her feel more comfortable. It's still very difficult, but once I break through that and just start a conversation, it's usually a huge relief and never as difficult as I built it up to be in my mind. A very simple conversation starter is, "Hi, my name is..." Then just ask a bunch of questions. People love to talk about themselves. ;)

tanya_the_dancer

12-17-2007, 04:00 PM

I don't get asked to dance much at the socials, and when I do get asked, it is usually by people I have known for a while. I either have to work up the courage to do the asking myself, or just sit out a lot. I used to wonder why is it I don't get asked, but I never figured out why and lately I just didn't do much social dancing at all to worry about why is it guys don't ask me.

cornutt

12-17-2007, 04:05 PM

Sadly, Jay, you cannot assume this friendly attitude is everywhere. My local dance scene is not like that.

That's a shame. Our scene is a lot more like what IJ describes. And for the same reasons he enumerates, I make it a point to seek out beginners and ask them to dance.

DWise1

12-17-2007, 04:15 PM

Overall we don't turn down a dance. The only exception would be at ballroom parties where we haven't learned the dance yet -- that's much more a consideration for the leader than for the follower, since I have led women through dances they had never learned before, but it would be impossible for a man to lead a dance he had never learned.

And I was also wanting to comment on your situation not being typical. Many of my fellow students tend to be older couples (in their late 30's or above) whose children have either moved out or at least have grown enough for Mom and Dad to start dating again -- my siblings-in-law would talk about my in-laws being out on a "hot date". And a sizeable number are newly-single, a situation that's hitting a lot of people in their 50's -- being one of those is what makes me more sensitive about not being a "dirty old man". And we also have some people in their early twenties, but they're usually single -- many more of these in salsa and Lindy than in ballroom.

All that is saying that you're in a bit different of a situation. It's great that your husband frees you up to dance, but what about him? No, that's not what I mean. I'm thinking towards the future when the both of you will have more time and opportunity to start going on dates again. Does he also have an interest in dancing? If so, then he will need opportunity to learn and to practice. We've had a number of threads here where we've discussed that it takes a guy much longer to work through the beginner phase (AKA "beginner's hell") mainly because he has so much more to learn how to do.

Of course, balance that with having time together and together with the kids, etc. Also, if he doesn't express interest now, don't hold that "against" him later when he changes his mind and is more open to the idea.

I was still married when I started going out to dance and it was weird for me. My motivation was that I needed to dance socially in order to learn and she wouldn't go out with me nor go to class, so I had no choice but to go out alone. And being in what seemed to me to be a very weird situation only made me that much shyer than I already was. Of course, being newly single it still seems weird to me, but a different kind of weird.

Here is what I do in case it helps. When I see somebody I know, no matter how slightly (eg, even had just been in a class with them), I make eye contact and signal some kind of greating, whether it's a smile, wave, or verbal greeting if we're close enough -- having gone through classes at different studios/venues for several different dances, I keep seeing a lot of the same people at different events; even though I frequently ask "Where have we met before?" or "Where do I know you from?", I have never used it as a pick-up line. OK, that way, I know somebody there and so do they. Then, as we mill about, I smile and offer proper apologies as I slip through the crowd or as I make room for others. I don't need to strike up a conversation in order to make little verbal contacts. And I don't have to think of an opening line because we already have one: "Would you like to dance?"

PS
And Garrison Keillor once offered a shy person's trick: don't wear your glasses. That way, if you can't see them then you'll figure that they can't see you either. I found it really helped when our team performed at the US Open. That and the bright lights in our eyes.

And powder milk biscuits, which give shy people the strength to do what they need to.
(Prairie Home Companion reference)

Peaches

12-17-2007, 04:32 PM

I sympathise Statlady. I'm also shy, and very much a wall-flower until I get to know people well. No advice to give you, really. I don't get asked much. Sometimes it bothers me, sometimes it doesn't. I find it depends mostly on the venue--some places aren't overly friendly, some are scary-friendly. Knowing people there can help to mitigate things, as does becoming a better dancer. *shrug*

tanya_the_dancer

12-17-2007, 04:33 PM

Many of my fellow students tend to be older couples (in their late 30's or above)

late 30s considered to be an "older person"??? :shock: :shock:

jennyisdancing

12-17-2007, 04:34 PM

That's a shame. Our scene is a lot more like what IJ describes. And for the same reasons he enumerates, I make it a point to seek out beginners and ask them to dance.

Some cities just seem to be a lot friendlier than others. I've danced in the DC area and those folks are great! Most of them gladly ask newbies to dance. My area (Philly) is a great place in other ways, but ever since I took up dancing I have heard many people complain about the unfriendliness and cliques. That's what led me to organize my own group of friends as I mentioned; we were a bunch of people who were all in the same boat.

I now send out weekly emails to my friends and suggest places to dance that week. Usually I can get a least a couple people together, so I never have to go to a dance alone. I still do sit some out, if my male friends are dancing with other ladies and I can't get anyone else to dance with me. But at least I sit out a lot less than before.

tanya_the_dancer

12-17-2007, 04:55 PM

On second thought, do I really want to be asked by and/or dance with every guy present at the party? Probably not.

DWise1

12-17-2007, 04:57 PM

late 30s considered to be an "older person"???

Older than early to mid 20's.

Actually, I started with 50, but then thought more of the "kids have gotten old enough" criterion and so I brought it down the 40's. But then realized that if the parents became parents in their early 20's, then the kids would be getting about "old enough" when their parents are in their late 30's.

Consider that it wasn't until a few years ago that I even started thinking that I might be approaching middle-age soon. And I suddenly realized that in two more years I'd be classified as "senior citizen" by the "senior citizen discount" that kicks in at 55.

Sagitta

12-17-2007, 04:57 PM

So far I've never really experienced unfriendliness. Take this past weekend. I went to SOBs in NYC and didn't know anyone. I got quite a few dances. I even had someone come to me and ask me if I did cha cha cha when one was playing and that was nice. I was actually thinking of asking her to dance, but hadn't done so yet. Danced with someone whom I knew was her birthday and surprised her and made her really happy. She ended with saying, "This is the first time that I have danced!" (In her life!!!) And even happier when I wished her happy birthday. (Then as she wanted to know I let her know I was behind her in the line waiting to get in and saw her with a bouqet of flowers and her friends talking about it being a birthday night....)

Unfriendly IMO simply means fewer dances. I refuse not to dance if I want to dance. I rather get 20 rejections and 2 dances than 2 rejections and no dances.

tanya_the_dancer

12-17-2007, 05:12 PM

Older than early to mid 20's.

Actually, I started with 50, but then thought more of the "kids have gotten old enough" criterion and so I brought it down the 40's. But then realized that if the parents became parents in their early 20's, then the kids would be getting about "old enough" when their parents are in their late 30's.

Consider that it wasn't until a few years ago that I even started thinking that I might be approaching middle-age soon. And I suddenly realized that in two more years I'd be classified as "senior citizen" by the "senior citizen discount" that kicks in at 55.

It sure feels depressing to be considered an older person. I am about to turn 35 (next month) which means I will be crossing the line into late 30s. So in all those age polls I will no longer be in 25-34 age group, and I will no longer be considered as Lady-A1 at most comps unless I want to dance down in age for some reason. Birthdays are depressing, I guess.

DWise1

12-17-2007, 05:27 PM

Oh! You're such a young kid! Hardly dry behind the ears!

elisedance

12-17-2007, 08:10 PM

I'm with you DW1. Oh, to compete at the 35 and over and actually be 35 and over (and not almost twice the age). Harumph - no sympathy here TtD!

DWise1

12-17-2007, 08:50 PM

Yeah, being single now and supposed to be on the prowl (which I refuse to do, but that's another whine), I can't begin to consider any woman who's not at least in her mid to late forties. Younger than that is just plain too young!

PS
One day between Lindy classes, one of the girls was complaining that the older guys wouldn't ask her to dance and that they all considered her to be a kid. Well she's not a kid! She's an adult woman! She's 24! And I thought about it. That's my son's age. Yeah, in my eyes you're a kid!

fascination

12-17-2007, 08:54 PM

It sure feels depressing to be considered an older person. I am about to turn 35 (next month) which means I will be crossing the line into late 30s. So in all those age polls I will no longer be in 25-34 age group, and I will no longer be considered as Lady-A1 at most comps unless I want to dance down in age for some reason. Birthdays are depressing, I guess.I love dancing down into A-1

Rumbagirl

12-17-2007, 08:58 PM

A practice dance in the dance studio is very different from being out at a club. Ask a man to dance! You are there to practice and learn, not meet someone, so take the initiative! All they can say is "no", which most will probably not. Otherwise you will be unhappy each week if you don't get in the dancing you came for.

Statlady

12-18-2007, 12:31 AM

Ditto. And in fact, the majority of folks at my local dances are shy people who took up dancing because they wanted to get themselves out of the house to meet others. i.e., a lot of them start dancing to help 'cure' their shyness. But dancing doesn't magically make anyone more comfortable talking to people. So you end up with a ballroom full of people who are all too shy to start up a conversation! I think we all need to make more effort. It's not easy.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it that way. That's actually one of the main reasons I enjoy dancing so much. I feel like dancing helps break down the walls people put up. You're right, though, that it won't magically make anyone more comfortable talking to people.

To whoever suggested imagining that the person I want to talk to is the shy one . . . that's a good idea. I find that when I'm in a situation where I know a lot of people, I have much less trouble going up to the "new" person and saying hello.

And Statlady, I'm just amazed that you are able to leave your house at all with young twins at home. I'm glad your husband is being helpful; he must be a real sweetie to watch the babies while you spend an evening at a dance without him. I'm a mom too and I know just how hard it is to get out, and when you do get out, you want to make the most of your time and not just sit there.

:) Thanks. My husband is a sweetie. It's just too bad that he has absolutely no desire whatsoever to dance. I don't see that changing anytime. It's OK, though. I mean, the guy has to have one flaw. ;) I don't get out of the house for many things besides dance classes, because it really is hard. But, dancing is just that important to me.

I would also suggest finding a practice partner to go to dances with. See if you can ask someone who's in your classes. You will probably have to make the first move; a guy might be reluctant to ask a married lady to be his dance partner because he doesn't know if the lady's husband is okay with it. Or you could go to the teacher and ask him/her to suggest a good partner for you. Good luck, you sound like a lovely person, Statlady.That's an interesting idea. There was a guy closer to my age (about 35 I think) who I met a year ago when I first started (before I got pregnant and had to quit). We started at about the same time and he was quite good. We got to know each other a little bit and I would often dance with him 5-6 times in one evening. Now, however, he's much more advanced than I am. I think he's been taking 2 private lessons a week for the past year. He still asks me to dance a lot, but we're not as evenly matched anymore.

I'm not sure how I feel about getting a "practice partner." That seems a little weird . . . . I mean, I'd love to find a partner that I could dance with and perhaps even compete with at some point when I have a bit more time. I'm always so jealous of the people who have a dance partner. I might mention the idea to my teacher and see what he thinks.

Once again, I am so amazed at how nice and helpful the people on this board are. I've been to other message boards and people are generally nice and helpful, I've found. I've only had one experience with a board where people were downright rude. But, even compared to the "nice" boards I frequent, the people here are exceptional. :)

Thankfully, the people at my studio are generally friendly. I would be highly surprised if anyone actually turned me down if I asked them to dance. I don't think it's the fear of rejection that hinders me.

I've been thinking a lot about what it is that keeps me from being more forward . . . . when I was a teenager, it was because I didn't want the guy to think I "liked" him. That's sort of a moot point now, but I think it's still stuck in my head. I'm afraid that if I act too eager to dance with someone they'll think I'm trying to hit on them. Is that dumb??

jennyisdancing

12-18-2007, 01:15 AM

Thankfully, the people at my studio are generally friendly. I would be highly surprised if anyone actually turned me down if I asked them to dance. I don't think it's the fear of rejection that hinders me.

I've been thinking a lot about what it is that keeps me from being more forward . . . . when I was a teenager, it was because I didn't want the guy to think I "liked" him. That's sort of a moot point now, but I think it's still stuck in my head. I'm afraid that if I act too eager to dance with someone they'll think I'm trying to hit on them. Is that dumb??

Oh...if that's the issue, be assured that a dance event (such as those sponsored by a studio) is for dancing and nothing more. No one will think you are hitting on them simply by asking them for a dance. They are all there for the same reason you are - just to dance and have fun. Yes, there may be some guys who would like to meet women there, but it's like any other environment where you can make it fairly obvious you are not interested that way. I would just avoid asking the same man (or saying yes to the same man) several times in an evening, that might give the wrong impression. But I assume you're not doing that.

I see many, many married people who go dancing without their spouses. Usually they are in your situation where their spouse either isn't interested in dancing or isn't available. No one has a second thought about it. So go ahead and ask for dances, and have fun! Since you say you have a friendly crowd, it will be fine.

Statlady

12-18-2007, 01:26 AM

Oh...if that's the issue, be assured that a dance event (such as those sponsored by a studio) is for dancing and nothing more. No one will think you are hitting on them simply by asking them for a dance. They are all there for the same reason you are - just to dance and have fun.

Oh, I know that intellectually. I think it's mostly subconscious. I didn't even realize it until I started really thinking hard about what I was so afraid of.

Joe

12-18-2007, 08:06 AM

I love dancing down into A-1
I don't have any choice. ;)

fascination

12-18-2007, 09:03 AM

well...ducks to avoid fierce partner...yes you do

skwiggy

12-18-2007, 09:08 AM

well...ducks to avoid fierce partner...yes you do

:bkick:

cornutt

12-18-2007, 11:22 AM

I've danced in the DC area and those folks are great!

I agree; from what little I've seen of the DC dance scent, it rocks! :rocker: I went out to a place there a couple of years ago where there were several DF regulars, including one who consented to allow me to drag her through some smooth. We had a great time. Unfortunately, she's given up her standard since then... :confused:

skwiggy

12-18-2007, 11:29 AM

Yay for DC! :cool:

Peaches

12-18-2007, 12:10 PM

I agree; from what little I've seen of the DC dance scent, it rocks! :rocker: I went out to a place there a couple of years ago where there were several DF regulars, including one who consented to allow me to drag her through some smooth. We had a great time. Unfortunately, she's given up her standard since then... :confused:Ah, but for you, C, I'd make an exception. (You'd still be dragging my butt around the floor, since I haven't made much progress since giving it up.)

cornutt

12-18-2007, 01:03 PM

Ah, but for you, C, I'd make an exception. (You'd still be dragging my butt around the floor, since I haven't made much progress since giving it up.)

I really, really need to find a reason why I need to visit the Vienna office again... ;)

Peaches

12-18-2007, 01:19 PM

Absolutely!

Can't find a reason? Make one up!

wooh

12-18-2007, 02:51 PM

What's the balance of unattached leads to follows? Sadly, if there's a LOT more unattached women than unattached men, every 5th dance might be about right.

elisedance

12-18-2007, 04:09 PM

I think its time we doubled up. Each guy has to dance with at least two women at a time... lets really test their lead skills...

Peaches

12-18-2007, 04:14 PM

I love that. It's so much fun.

DWise1

12-18-2007, 04:22 PM

Danse à trois has already been done. In Sweden, it's practically the national dance.

The story: In Sweden, Lindy developed into a dance called Bugg. During the 80's, there were so many more women than men dancing that they developed the "Double Bug" where one man dances with two women. From there, it became a competive event. A few years ago, Swedish Lindy instructors Hasse and Marie started coming to Camp Hollywood, where they always teach a Double Bug class; the first link is from that class.

Oh yeah, the link. Here's the YouTube.com link to the search results on "double bug":
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=double+bug

I've also learned some WCS à trois moves. And part of Edie "the Salsa Freak"'s first exposure to salsa was observing a salsa à trois.

Now, standard smooth à trois. That could prove interesting.

Angel HI

12-19-2007, 05:36 AM

Danse à trois has already been done. Oh yeah, the link. Here's the YouTube.com link to the search results on "double bug":
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=double+bug . I've also learned some WCS à trois moves. And part of Edie "the Salsa Freak"'s first exposure to salsa was observing a salsa à trois.

Have danced Swings, Chas, and Salsas like this for years. It's fun now and then.

Joe

12-19-2007, 08:01 AM

Don't forget Rumba!

catsmeow

12-19-2007, 09:56 PM

You gals have a dreadful time with dancing socially. When you first begin, no one asks because you have no experience. Get just a little bit better and you are beyond the capabilities of ninety percent of all the men. Now you intimidate them to the point they wont go near you. What's a female to do? Seems like a fine line to walk. By the way, would you care to try this next waltz?

Statlady

12-20-2007, 05:10 PM

What's the balance of unattached leads to follows? Sadly, if there's a LOT more unattached women than unattached men, every 5th dance might be about right.

I'm really not sure, since it's not obvious to me who is "attached" and who is not. I've been asked to dance more frequently than 1 in 5 at dances in the past. This last one was just especially bad, so it got me wondering. I did notice that some unattached follows near me were getting asked to dance a lot more frequently than I was.

In our group classes, we often have more men than women, so we're not hurting for men in general. I don't know if that translates to parties, though, nor whether the men in my classes are attached or not.

etp777

12-20-2007, 05:22 PM

You're lucky there. I know at a lot (all?) of the local studios I spend time at back home, there are noticably more follows than leads. Was actually shocked at second to last party I went to at my home studio that there was more men then women (well, more leads than follows anyway, female teachers counting in either category depedning on what they're doing in a particular soong). Was sitting on side tightening shoelaces, looked up, and noticed that one of my pro's other students and I were b oth sitting out, yet there were no unattached women. Generally seems to be other way around, even with female pros leading, generally more follows than leads.

Hock Siew

02-25-2008, 11:18 AM

Hi Statlady,

This post has been sometime; but I just read it, and was wondering how things are working out. I`m not a particularly experienced dancer myself; and symphatise with you. You see, when I first started dancing; like you, I was shy (which was probably a bit worse since I am a lead) and didn`t use to dance very much at socials. However, as time passed, I slowly got used to asking for dances. Now, depending on the nature of and the environment in the function, I usually get as many dances as I want.

I understand that when you are new, it seems that everyone knows everyone else, and that you appear like an `outsider`. It`s just that takes time for the people at the functions to start to know you better. Since you are quite new, most of the dancers there will know many other people already. So it is natural for them to dance with people they know. Speaking for myself, I will usually (but not always) dance with the people I know first. However, I will also try to dance with other dancers too.

I hope that you won`t be discouraged; and that your subsequent parties will become more enjoyable as you continue dancing and get more dances :)

Best Regards,
Hock Siew

Hock Siew

02-25-2008, 12:00 PM

Hi again Statlady,

I think that Wyndstorm Huntress has some very good points.

A couple of things helped. Asking fellow beginners to dance (such as the ones from your classes) helps. They're just as nervous as you are about asking people to dance, and I'm sure it's a relief for them that they get to dance as well. The way I see it, your fellow beginner dancers will be your future regular social partners as you all advance in level, so it doesn't hurt to start networking now.

When I started dancing, I started by asking girls from my class (I guess almost everyone here did!). Since there`re from the same class, you`ve danced with them before anyway.

Talking to other follows helps as well. At one dance I attended, I mentioned to one of the follows that I was new and still a little uncomfortable asking guys to dance. She mentioned it to one of her regular partners, who asked me to dance. Then he recommended me to another regular, and word spread around to everyone there that the newbie could use some partners to dance with. I went from sitting out most of the first hour to dancing every song I was able to dance to by the end of the night.

In addition to this, you could also try and find out which of the guys would be a good person to ask (e.g. is easy-going, patient with beginners, never turns down ladies for a dance unless he can`t help it, etc).

Also consider trying to chat with those circulators you've observed - the ones who like to dance every dance. This is something that I'm still working on myself. You don't have to ask them to dance right up front, but sharing a little friendly banter helps you to become more noticeable. And, mentioning the whole, "I'm new," thing will almost always get you a dance from the really good leads who truly are there to dance.

On top of this, if you`re chatting with one of these people when a new song starts; he might ask you for the next dance. In my case, if I want to dance the next song and I happen to be in the company of a lady, I will often ask her (unless there is a specific reason).

I realize that all of these suggestions require breaking out of your shell. Believe me, I know exactly what it's like to be shy as I used to be painfully shy myself. Mentioning that I'm new and still a beginner to people has a number of benefits - People are more eager to dance with me, they're more keen on giving compliments (which totally boosts the confidence...not saying that's why I tell people I'm new, though!), and it will improve your skills faster.

That for me was my biggest roadblock - not feeling "good enough" to ask people to dance. Ask them anyway. I'm discovering more and more that many folks remember how they were first starting out, and have way more patience to dance with newbies than I originally thought they would. You'll still find your bad apples (see my thread on social dancing with advanced dancers), but don't let them discourage you.

It`s true. The real dancers will not mind that you are a beginner; and are usually supportive and encouraging. If anything, they should be more understanding since you are a beginner.

Just keep swimming...or dancing in this case. There was a point where I became insanely frustrated with it all, to where I was ready to swear off going to parties until I felt sure I was good enough to attend them. Shortly after that was the point where things started to turn around. Be patient, and it will get better.

Similarly here, I almost stopped dancing at one stage. Thank goodness I didn`t; just when it seem that it wouldn`t work out, it did :D

Keep dancing! :D

Regards,
Hock Siew

reb

02-25-2008, 07:56 PM

It`s true. The real dancers will not mind that you are a beginner; and are usually supportive and encouraging. If anything, they should be more understanding since you are a beginner.

Regards,
Hock Siew
True, true!

Stagekat

02-25-2008, 11:35 PM

As a closet outgoing person... (I'm generally only outgoing if you know me already) this thread as been very helpful. Thanks for all the great advice!

Hock Siew

02-26-2008, 12:14 AM

Another suggestion - This may not be applicable to your party, but it has worked from what I saw at the last party I attended, and I'm curious if it will hold true to future parties I attend. Try staying until the end of the dance. At my studio's parties, there are almost always more follows than leads. Eventually the extra follows get tired of sitting out and leave for the night. Then the gender balance evens out.

Of course, this usually means only the most hard core dancers are staying until the end, but that could provide a great learning opportunity for you.

Usually the functions I attend have more men than women. So inevitably, the men get more dances than the women. However, I do make a point of trying to get dances with everyone I know; and also to try and get one or two with those I don`t. Unfortunately, in functions where there are a lot of people, this may not happen due to many reasons (too many other people to dance with that evening, couldn`t see/find the person I wanted to ask, so happens she was dancing with someone else at the time, etc). But towards the end of the night, when there are less people, it`s a lot easier to find everyone else. If course, it`s also possible that the guys happen to decide go off at the same time; and that you ended up waiting, but didn`t get any more dances. But if you did this a few times, at least you would find out whether it works. And as Wyndstorm Huntress said, it`s usually the hardcore dancers that stay to the end; and you might end the night with some really good dances :)

yippee1999

02-27-2008, 03:53 PM

Few thoughts...first off, if you don't bring your husband along, then men have no way of knowing if you are "taken" or not. So I don't think that has anything to do with it.

It sounds like you go to the dances alone. You said others claim tables for themselves. Do you find that when folks are at the tables, are they groups of people that know each other? Have you noticed if they only dance amongst themselves? Or do the men at the tables go around now and then to find someone they may not know to ask to dance?

I highly recommend that you continue to take more group classes there so that the men will recognize you more. Some people are funny like that, and feel more comfortable dancing with someone they already developed a rapport with during class. That said though, plenty of people also ask complete strangers to dance. I really don't think you should let that stop you from asking a man to dance, especially if you find you are not getting asked at first.

Are you making eye contact with other people there? Or do you think your discomfort is perhaps coming across to potential male dance partners? Maybe have just one teeny drink beforehand to help relax you?

Also, excellent tip by Wyndstorm. That makes total sense, that some follows may leave before the night's over, thereby balancing out the male/female ratio. I know on night's where my dance card ends up being more empty, I'm much more apt to leave the dance early.