Help...

[amandak04]

I am the most uncoordinated, rhythm/beatless person in the world. I have been attempting to learn two stepping and line dances, but I am failing miserably! I can't even do the hustle without getting off beat and screwing up! Does anyone has any helpful websites, tips, etc so I can learn to find the beats in songs and stop being a failure at dancing?

Thanks!

[etp777]

If your'e trying to learn three count hustle, don't be surprised if you have trouble staying on beat (and I'll withhold my rant about a three count step danced to four count music :) ), that's nothing to feel ashamed about. But here are a couple threads from other sections (Swing and salsa to be exact) that have some good advice on picking up beat in various music.

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=22167
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=21791

[DWise1]

I am the most uncoordinated, rhythm/beatless person in the world.

You can't be, because that's my job! Or at least it was. For 25 years, I was certified completely devoid of rhythm and totally incapable of ever learning to dance. It was my girlfriend (who later became my wife and my ex) and her friends who certified me after they failed to teach me how to free style. Their entire method of teaching was to simply tell me to follow the music and do what it told me to do. No steps. No training sessions with music. When I couldn't make sense of what they were telling me, they convinced me that I was the failure, not them.

Part of their problem was that when you learn what to listen for ("the beat") and to learn to coordinate your movement with it, then it starts to become automatic and natural and you stop thinking about it. You just feel it. You even start to feel the One (ie, the music's count goes from 1 to 8 and a lot of dances, especially swing and salsa, align to the 1) and that feeling can be so strong that you're compelled to start on it -- when your teacher starts the class off by counting "5 6 7 8", he's starting you off on the 1.

Anyway, it took me 6 months of West Coast Swing to finally hear the beat and be able to follow it with confidence. Within a year or two, I started getting compliments on my "natural rhythm". So nobody is hopeless! It can be learned!

Are you a music listener like I was? You'd sit there listening to music and you'd listen to all the parts, all the instruments and voices, and listen to how they all interacted with each other? Dancers who'd see us sitting there motionless can't understand what's going on in our heads and how much we're enjoying the music.

But that enjoyment gets in our way to start to learn to dance. I could never find the beat because I was still trying to listen to everything; it's classic "can't see the forest for the trees". We have to first learn to isolate the instrument that's carrying the beat and concentrate on it -- don't worry, when that becomes automatic then you can start adding the other instruments in again.

In most songs (I'm thinking two-step and swing), it's the drums or the bass that carries the beat. Down beats are strong, up beats are not as strong. Down and up beats come in pairs. The music's beat runs from 1 to 8 with down beats on the odd counts and up beats on the even counts. These 8-beat units are called phrases or minor phrases (because groups of them are major phrases which are marked by distinctive changes in the song). I just gave you a lot, so don't try to digest it all at once. Usually when the singer is singing, the lyrics fit into 8-beat phrases, so the start of a line is normally on the 1; that will be an easy way to start to spot it.

After that, it's simply a matter of counting, 1 through 8. Listen to your favorite moderate-tempo song, one with a good strong beat. Start counting out the beat. Listen for the down beats and the up beats. Listen for changes in the song, like a different instrument playing a solo -- those should be on phrase. Listen for when the singer starts a line and count out the beat while he/she's singing. Observe how the lines fit within the count. As you progress, spot where a major change takes place (switching from pure instrumental to the start of the singing is one such change) and count out how many 8-beat units are played before another major change takes place -- most major phrases are 32 beats long (4 8-beat units), but could be 24 (3 units) or 40 (5 units) long.

One night in West Coast class, our instructor laid that out for us. It was the first time that I had heard it. In the car on the way home, the Stones' song "Angie" came on and I started counting it out and it worked out perfectly.

So listen to a lot of music that you would be dancing to and count it out. And tap your toe or your finger (finger's better when you're driving) along with the beat. And do that all the time.


Next thing is the dance steps. I assume that you've learned two-step as "quick, quick, slow, slow". Well the count for the steps is "1, 2, 3 (hold 4), 5 (hold 6)". 1 2 3 5 . Six beats. Which is two beats short. Sorry, that's the way it is. Some dances always line up perfectly with the 8-beat counts of the music, but many don't Just accept that there are two sets of counts going on at the same time. You don't normally need to worry about it, especially in two-step; it becomes more important in swing ... not essential, but a lot cooler if you can bring your swing dance back on the 1 at the start of a major phrase.

Which raises a question: are you a leader or a follower? It appears that you're a follower whose name or nickname is "Amanda". But that could also be "a Man-Dak" (ie, someone who's from the border region between North Dakota and Manitoba). So which are you?

If you're a follower, then you don't need to worry about major phrasing nor the 1, because you're at the mercy of the leader. But if you're the leader, then you will one day need to learn it. But not necessarily right now. Baby steps.

But, if you're uncoordinated and have two left feet, then the other thing to remember is to change your weight to the foot you're stepping on. You'll always be on the correct foot if you change weight when you step and don't when you don't step (eg, a tap means no weight change). Sounds simple, but easy for a beginner to miss.

So, fire up that iPod and start listening and counting!

[amandak04]

You were right, I am the follower! I do place some of my failure on the leader, but I know some of it is my fault too. Thanks so much for your advice!! I think that what you have told me will be helpful and I will definitely just start counting out beats whenever I hear music. :)

[DWise1]

Yes, the leader is to blame for a lot. But there are also a lot of things that the follower does to sabotage the dance. As a leader, I tend to view things from that perspective even though I do try to consider what the follower needs -- I got roped into a Country Waltz, which I don't know, and after thinking for a bit of how she needs to be stepping into a turn, I was able to time that turn right. Later she recommended me to a friend saying, "He has a good lead, he keeps in time with the music, and he knows when to turn you."

Anyway, the leader has a lot to learn and a lot to do. While I am amazed at how you guys are able to follow us, many followers have expressed amazement at how we do everything we need to do (eg, remember the steps and their names, remember the routine in class, plan out what step to do next, know when to apply the lead, be able to maneuver around a crowded floor, spot immenent collisions and protecting her from it) and are positive that they could never do it -- or at least are so glad that they don't need to do what we do. My ballroom instructor once told us, "Men dance in the future; women dance in the present." We need to plan what to do next for however many moves in the future, while you need to sense what we're doing right now and respond to it immediately.

The point is that we both have rather different jobs involving different skill sets, but the two jobs complement each other and both must be done correctly for the dance to work. There are so many things that we can do wrong that will throw you off and so many things that you can do that will throw us off -- much of the time, a good leader is also following his partner, in that he needs to sense where she's going and what she's doing so that he can respond to that. Some dances are more tolerant of mistakes than others. As a leader, I almost always assume that something's my fault because 1) it often is, and 2) I'm the only thing that I can do anything about. And perhaps that's a good outlook for the follower too, though with the idea of trying to improve rather than trying to place blame.

But the main reason for my reply is that it had just occurred to me what one of your problem areas in two-step probably is. When you're just cruising along, you can normally keep time with the music, but when you do a turn you keep coming out on the wrong foot or just plain lose track of what count you're on anymore. How did I know that? Because everybody has that problem when they're learning two-step. Even the guys who aren't even doing the turning.

My advice would be to keep the count going during the turn and to step it out. I forget the technical term, something like "travelling turns". That's where you turn 180 degrees (pivoting on the ball of the foot) with each step you take. And as you step it's to the rhythm of the dance. You're stepping on the same foot as you normally would for that count, so when you come out of the turn you're on the correct foot and still on the count. Some have a tendency to try to spin their way through a turn, but that only throws them off and they end up on the wrong foot and the wrong count -- plus it would stop their motion (you can't move while you're spinning), which in a two-step will turn you into road-kill. Learn to step it out. Have a teacher or a more experienced follower teach you how to do travelling turns (or whatever the correct term is). They're used in several other dances, so it's a very good skill for you to learn. And as you get better at them, then you will have an easier time stepping through the turns because you're no longer panicking.

And on a humorous note, if your leader is also counting the rhythm, that will make it a lot easier for you follow him. Because all you need to do is to read his lips and you'll know exactly what count he's on.

After one year of Lindy, one partner told me I was the easiest guy there to follow because she was reading my lips. So I learned to stop moving my lips while I count. Don't think that counting is just a beginner thing. Even the advanced dancers still count; they just don't move their lips.