Slippery Shoes

[Kata]

I was wondering if anyone had any experience/solutions to shoes being too slippery. I'm a latin dancer, and I always feel like my soles are too smooth and it prevents me from really grounding the way I want to. I've tried putting water on them which wonderfully but it dries really quickly. Any ideas?
Thanks! :)

[Ithink]

Brush them.

And do us standard dancers a favor: don't put water on your shoes (or oil, etc.) when you're competing on the same floor as us. It makes for an unpleasant dancing experience for us...

[ballroomdancertoo]

have you had them resoled? Try getting them done before a special event. I do my own resoling and it takes about 1/2 hour. I leave them overnight for the glue to dry.

[waltzgirl]

I think it was Joe who said once, that if you learn to *really* have your weight over your foot, you won't bother to brush your shoes anymore. And I found that to be true.

Certainly brush them frequently if it helps (ditto on the no-water/oil/etc. request). But consider that the opposite of what you think might be true: lack of groundedness might be causing the slipperiness, rather than the other way around. I used to complain about the floor being slippery in one of the rooms at the studio where I take lessons. My teacher just said, "good! It means you have to really be grounded!"

[RIdancer82]

rosin helps too (not sure if that's spelled correctly or not) I've been told that the stuff they sell for ballet is not the same as the one you'd buy for ballroom shoes. Supposedly the latter is a finer powder. Anyway, and if you use that, it would be a good idea to be neat about it and not get it all over the dance floor, since not all dancers would necessarily want to use it.

[Josh]

I think it was Joe who said once, that if you learn to *really* have your weight over your foot, you won't bother to brush your shoes anymore. And I found that to be true.

I think this is great advice. I still brush them, just to keep them from becoming "overgrown" with junk though. I think WG's point is to not blame your shoes when you don't feel grounded, unless they are just truly slicked over. I used to brush my shoes a LOT, and was obsessed with keeping them clean. However, I now normally go a day or so, dancing 8-10 hours on them, without brushing them, and towards the end of the day they still feel as good as in the morning, and the brushing is purely a "cleanliness" thing, not something I do becuase they feel slick. In fact, I can't remember the last time they felt "slick". But still, in situations where you need an edge, like a competition, don't go out there with slick shoes... give yourself every advantage and take care of them.

[fascination]

this is a repeat of my past sentiments but I think bears repeating..it is important to not let externals have that much power...and focusing on being centered over your foot does help...after hearing lots of folks obsess over shoes and floor surfaces and the like...I just decided that I have enough internal challenges without letting externals get into my head....so they don't ...just something to ponder perhaps

[Joe]

If you find that you need to brush your shoes all the time, either learn to use your standing foot or do yourself a favor and invest in some rubber soles.

[Purr]

...haven't had a problem with the bottoms of my shoes feeling too slick...only some dance floors from time to time...I brush my shoes as needed to remove any debris they've picked up...

[standardgirl]

I have use anti-slippery powder at competitions before for standard dancing. Sometimes the floor (especially for collegiate comps) are just way too slippery. I like the powders a lot, but not sure if it will be "strong" enough for latin dancing.

[biggestbox]

proper allignment of the body gives you a lot of stability. But if you want to get more traction, oil is the way to go. I use Castor oil. Oil makes the shoe softer so is stays on the floor longer. if the room is very dry and your shoes are really dry, brushing will only help marginally.

[Another Elizabeth]

In an emergency situation, hairspray will work quite well to make your shoes sticky. I wouldn't recommend using it all the time, but if you get to a competition and it's too slippery for you, it helps. It also doesn't gunk up the floor for everyone else like rosin or oil.

[skwiggy]

We usually practice on slick floors and are very used to them and comfortable on them. So we have the opposite problem where when we get to a comp and the floor is sticky or slow, we are thrown off a bit. We're looking for ways to practice dancing on a stickier floor, but there aren't a lot of options available. So I'm curious if we try using the hairspray, what does it do to the shoes and the floor in the long term? Perhaps this is a method we could use during practice to get the feeling of dancing on a stickier floor, assuming it won't ruin our shoes or the floor?

[Kata]

Thanks for the advice everyone - really helpful, thanks!

[Another Elizabeth]

The hairspray may leave your shoes sticky for a practice or two, but if you brush them regularly, it will come out in a few days at most. If you practice in a dusty room, it will come out much faster. It's never damaged my shoes, although I don't make a habit of it, either.

[Me]

If you find that you need to brush your shoes all the time, either learn to use your standing foot or do yourself a favor and invest in some rubber soles.

Yes, I'd have to agree with adding something permanent to the bottoms of your shoes - I own a 'slow' pair and a 'fast' pair. (One pair with rubber, one pair without.) I bought some rubber bottoms that you can find in shoe stores and I trim these down to a very narrow strip so that I can put on the 'brakes' if I'm trying to snap into a dead stop from a fast turn.

And I think the advice about working on being grounded is very good. I used to compensate for slippery floors by taking shorter steps or stepping flat footed, but I realized later I was slipping because I was not, as they say, 'grounded' or 'centered' enough.

[wooh]

I'll agree, instead of finding something to make the SHOES grip the floor better (and usually messing up the floor for others), learn to use your FEET to grip the floor better.:)

[DennisBeach]

rosin helps too (not sure if that's spelled correctly or not) I've been told that the stuff they sell for ballet is not the same as the one you'd buy for ballroom shoes. Supposedly the latter is a finer powder. Anyway, and if you use that, it would be a good idea to be neat about it and not get it all over the dance floor, since not all dancers would necessarily want to use it.

At a social ballroom dance, putting anything on the floor will not make you any friends. It is best to focus moving properly and keeping your shoes in effective shape. Any approach that messes up things for others, is going to make you an unwelcome guest.

[standardgirl]

We usually practice on slick floors and are very used to them and comfortable on them. So we have the opposite problem where when we get to a comp and the floor is sticky or slow, we are thrown off a bit. We're looking for ways to practice dancing on a stickier floor, but there aren't a lot of options available. So I'm curious if we try using the hairspray, what does it do to the shoes and the floor in the long term? Perhaps this is a method we could use during practice to get the feeling of dancing on a stickier floor, assuming it won't ruin our shoes or the floor?

A bottle of babypodwers and a bottle of antislip powders - the must have for comps. Have you tried using baby powders when the floor is too sticky?

[Joe]

Yes, and it works for about the first 3 steps. :)

[Kits]

I just bought a new pair of shoes at an online store last month. They are really comfortable although I tend to be slipping more than I should be around the dance floor. My instructor suggested me to purchase felt(?) or something that dr sholls carries to put on the soles. Can I find it at a regular shoe store? Also can I use Castro oil? Will that work? what exactly is that?

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Moved post :)

[latingal]

I just bought a new pair of shoes at an online store last month. They are really comfortable although I tend to be slipping more than I should be around the dance floor. My instructor suggested me to purchase felt(?) or something that dr sholls carries to put on the soles. Can I find it at a regular shoe store? Also can I use Castro oil? Will that work? what exactly is that?

The ladies dance shoes I have worn have bottoms that are covered in suede. There are ways to do it yourself (Barge Cement or some type of strong adhesive and Suede), or you can get a cobbler to do it.

Castor oil can be applied to the bottom of suede covered dance shoes to help them "grip" the floor a bit better. It's similar to applying water to the bottom of a suede covered shoe, however it does not evaporate as quickly. The downside though is, it comes off on the floor leaving the floor sticky for other dancers (and that's not always good, standard dancers want a slicker surface!). So most studios I know have asked that castor oil not be used on their floors.

[Joe]

Castor oil can be applied to the bottom of suede covered dance shoes to help them "grip" the floor a bit better.
:bkick:

[DanceJoy]

I think that adequately sums up Joe's opinion of castor oil!!!

I agree too that standard dancers do not like the sticky... It feels like we are dancing in peanut butter and we do not approve! Especially when the rest of the floor is normal except for a few oily patches and it catches us by surprise.. Grrrrrrr...

[Benjy]

Vitamin E oil works well too... again, never do this at social dances as the oil takes time to dry on the floor, and it really messes up standard dancers. But try to work without it... that being said, most high level dancers do use oil or water on fairly fast floors before a competition for added security.

[DanceJoy]

Benjy true, but usually we oil the shoes the night before so that they dry and are not going to be leaving splotches everywhere to mess up other pple... Or we use a hair dryer to try to dry the oil before we step out onto the floor.

I try not to do things to my shoes that can leave behind little "surprises" for anyone else to step into.

[Lorelei]

I think that adequately sums up Joe's opinion of castor oil!!!

I agree too that standard dancers do not like the sticky... It feels like we are dancing in peanut butter and we do not approve! Especially when the rest of the floor is normal except for a few oily patches and it catches us by surprise.. Grrrrrrr...

hear hear

Did a step-hop-slide in QS on one of these patches once, threw knee out

[Kits]

Thanks for moving post

ok so I wont use the castro Oil. :P
Im going to go to the Shoe Repair Store tomorrow.
See If I can get felt put on the bottom of it.
Its actually at a Dry Cleaners...Hope they can help me.
Ill buy a brush in the process.
My shoe bottoms arent suede though...

[Larinda McRaven]

wait a minute.... they have no suede?????


You don't need felt... you need SUEDE applied to the bottom.

[Kits]

:S No, I dont know whats on the bottom.
I had a few of my instructors tell me to get felt put on the bottom or brush it.
If the site wasnt blocked on my work computer I could show you picture of it.
I got it from discountdancesuplly.com and they are character shoes I cant remembered the discription of them though. :/

So do you think Im able to go to the store and get it fixed?

[waltzgirl]

Character shoes normally do not have suede soles. If you can return them and get ballroom shoes, that's the best idea. Otherwise, take them to a shoe repair place and have suede soles put on. Then buy a ballroom shoe brush to keep them clean and brush them a bit rougher when you need to.

[Kits]

Alll right thanks so much for the advice! =)

Hmm..now I am contemplating if I should just buy a new pair of ballroom shoes.

[waltzgirl]

If your shoes are comfortable and you feel stable in them (other than the slippery part), I'd say you could stick with the character shoes with suede soles. I had suede soles put on a pair of dance sneakers once and it cost $25 (a lot cheaper than a new pair of ballroom shoes ;)).

You probably won't be doing any fancy things with your feet for a while that might need shoes that are constructed a certain way (like open sides for smooth), but you might want to ask your instructor if he feels the character shoes get in your way at all.

[samina]

i bought character shoes early on, once -- thought i'd try them out for dancing ballroom/salsa/etc.

i think i wore them for one practice and realized they were worthless for my purposes... far too inflexible, aside from the lack of suede on the soles. never wore them again, and i wouldn't recommend using them... unless for some reason they give you support or something that is uniquely beneficial for your own feet at the moment.

even so... i'd say... bag the character shoes and develop your feet to be stronger. and get some proper dance shoes that will be kinder toward your efforts. my two cents.

[Kits]

If your shoes are comfortable and you feel stable in them (other than the slippery part), I'd say you could stick with the character shoes with suede soles. I had suede soles put on a pair of dance sneakers once and it cost $25 (a lot cheaper than a new pair of ballroom shoes ;)).

You probably won't be doing any fancy things with your feet for a while that might need shoes that are constructed a certain way (like open sides for smooth), but you might want to ask your instructor if he feels the character shoes get in your way at all.
Oh nice. Yeah I think I'll do just that. The Shoes are uber comfortable so I'll stick with them and get suede put on tomorrow. Again thanks for the advice :D

[pygmalion]

I bought character shoes early on, as well, and I didn't realize how ... different ... they were, until I bought my first pair of ballroom shoes. The balance -- where your weight ends up -- is totally different. Might not be a problem in the beginning, when you may not have any idea where your weight is lol. But, at some point, you're going to need ballroom shoes, IMHO.

That's quite an investment, though, so I probably would talk to your instructor and get his/her recommendations. You may not need them right now.

[Peaches]

What's the deal with character shoe soles? Are they smooth leather or something?

If that's the case, just take them out to some good (clean) rough pavement and swivel like your life depends on it. Scuff the bottoms really well and it'll slow the shoes down enough to where they probably won't be a problem. Be sure to wipe your feet on carpet before you step on the dance floor so you don't track dirt onto the floor.

(Although I actually second Sam's suggestion to get a pair of actual ballroom shoes.)

[Chris Stratton]

While they may not be suitable for latin, you have a better chance of initially learning to make good use of both ends of your feet for the travelling dances in something with a lower stable heel than you do trying to learn while contending with the heel of the traditional ballroom pump / court shoe. If you can get the foot usage down first, you'll also be in a better position to distinguish between models of shoe that look almost identical, but are very different in the degree to which they let you use your feet.

[Kits]

I walked onto the pavement with them once and oddly I think it made the sole slicker in a few areas.

My instructor suggested and offered to put felt on my shoes for me. So I think I'm just going to go to the fabric store, purchase some felt and asked my instructor to help me.

I ran into trouble with a shoe repair store this morning. I even went to a dance store and unfortunately they couldnt help me :( because all of their ballroom stuff was sent to a different store and the lady looked completly lost in what I was asking her. Oy! It was just crazy. Also went through the troubles of trying to find the places :/ Desperately need to invest in a GPS

[waltzgirl]

Are you sure he meant felt? You can get suede or something called "chrome leather" at crafts stores, which is more like what is on ballroom shoes. But if he wants felt, I guess you should go with felt.

[Kits]

ok I think Ill get Felt and chrome Leather just in case. Do you, by chance know what type of felt or why do you think they suggested felt?

[pygmalion]

Did you try calling the Dance Dresser? They're in Altamonte Springs, IIRC -- a straight shot up I-4. All sorts of nifty stuff there. I bet they have the suede you need. It's also an excellent place, when you do decide to buy ballroom shoes, to go try on lots of pairs. They make appointments so you can go in and get personal attention. And they LOVE talking shoes. :-D

[pygmalion]

Yup. Their website has it -- an EZ sole kit complete with everything you need, if you're willing to do it yourself... or bribe your teacher to. lol.

[Benjy]

Benjy true, but usually we oil the shoes the night before so that they dry and are not going to be leaving splotches everywhere to mess up other pple... Or we use a hair dryer to try to dry the oil before we step out onto the floor.

I try not to do things to my shoes that can leave behind little "surprises" for anyone else to step into.

This is very different from what I encounter. I generally apply it before any comp unless the floor is super slow... I simply refuse to take the risk. And it's not just me... this is what I see in many dancers at my level and above me in championship. I give it time to dry so I am not tracking oil, but no more than half an hour...

[Kits]

Yup. Their website has it -- an EZ sole kit complete with everything you need, if you're willing to do it yourself... or bribe your teacher to. lol.
Omg thats awesome! yeah my teacher is willing too. Yeah the girl at the dance store gave me their business card. We were pressed for time so wasnt able to go there but we'll head over there insted of Joanns on monday.

[pygmalion]

Omg thats awesome! yeah my teacher is willing too. Yeah the girl at the dance store gave me their business card. We were pressed for time so wasnt able to go there but we'll head over there insted of Joanns on monday.


We aims to please ma'am. :-)

[Kits]

We aims to please ma'am. :-)
aw so sweet thank you so much :)

[wooh]

This is very different from what I encounter. I generally apply it before any comp unless the floor is super slow... I simply refuse to take the risk. And it's not just me... this is what I see in many dancers at my level and above me in championship. I give it time to dry so I am not tracking oil, but no more than half an hour...

That's great. Just be sure to give your contact info to the smooth and standard dancers that dance after you. That way they'll know who to sue when they hit a spot you left and get injured.

[Larinda McRaven]

Is your teacher really a ballroom teacher??? Cause they should know you need suede... not felt!

[Benjy]

That's great. Just be sure to give your contact info to the smooth and standard dancers that dance after you. That way they'll know who to sue when they hit a spot you left and get injured.

I can't tell if you're being facetious... if not, don't be ridiculous. Certainly no more valid than me suing the company the owns the floor as a latin dancer because it was too fast and I slipped.

If you're over your standing leg, it shouldn't matter anyway... floor cannot be too sticky because you should not be pushing that hard into the floor with your moving leg that it matters and your standing leg shouldn't be moving anyway.

I'm a ten-dancer, I do everything I do from that perspective, and I understand what dancing standard entails. Really... it's not that big of a deal.

[wooh]

If you're over your standing leg, it shouldn't matter anyway...

It shouldn't, because if you're over your standing leg, your shoes shouldn't need to be so sticky.

[Kits]

uhm yeah they are... Now Im just curious as to why they want me to use felt :/

[Benjy]

It shouldn't, because if you're over your standing leg, your shoes shouldn't need to be so sticky.

If this were true, then people like Val Chmerkovskiy would not be wetting his shoes before comps... yet I have watched him do it several times. I can use the same logic to say that standard dancers should not be complaining about sticky floors. Exactly who is right here?

[Larinda McRaven]

floor cannot be too sticky because you should not be pushing that hard into the floor with your moving leg that it matters and your standing leg shouldn't be moving anyway.

It is not the standing leg that matters... it is my swinging leg.

When I open up my side step into a natural turn and my foot stops half the distance of my body flight because it is stuck and cannot slide my knee ends up wrenched and I get very cranky and the latin kids that are pouring oil all over the place. :(

[Larinda McRaven]

If this were true, then people like Val Chmerkovskiy would not be wetting his shoes before comps... yet I have watched him do it several times. I can use the same logic to say that standard dancers should not be complaining about sticky floors. Exactly who is right here?

Everyone can dance on a slippery floor if they are good. Standard dancers cannot slide on a sticky floor even if they are perfect.

[DanceJoy]

This is very different from what I encounter. I generally apply it before any comp unless the floor is super slow... I simply refuse to take the risk. And it's not just me... this is what I see in many dancers at my level and above me in championship. I give it time to dry so I am not tracking oil, but no more than half an hour...

I am guessing you dance latin, and NOT standard since every standard dancer I have met does not appreciate sticky spots on the floor. We prefer faster floors. Pros do use the oil sometimes for shows, but they use a hairdryer to dry it.

also, no matter how good you are at standard, a sticky floor (especially one that is only sticky in certain spots) can mess you up. If the floor is sticky all over, then yeah, I work a little harder to slide and it is very frustrating for me. If the floor is mostly normal, and I am dancing to expect that, but suddenly hit a sticky spot, no matter how "over my standing leg I am" if I am mid-turn or swinging a leg through, I will receive an unpleasant jolting surprise.

A lot of latin dancers I have seen buy those rubber spots that you can put on your shoe, they are small and just cover the ball so you have the extra traction. I don't know why dancers don't opt for that instead. Or, oil up the night before so that the oil dries and doesn't leave crud everywhere!!!

[DanceJoy]

EDIT: ahhhhh, I see you dance 10 dance...

[Benjy]

Everyone can dance on a slippery floor if they are good. Standard dancers cannot slide on a sticky floor even if they are perfect.

My favorite memory is watching Ruslan slipping on every fifth step during samba at Mid-Atlantic Regionals...

As a ten-dancer, I respectfully disagree, noting that you have much more experience and are more likely to be right. Regardless, I would much rather encounter sticky spots while dancing standard than literally not be able to move forward because I have exactly zero traction while doing latin.

Obviously the ideal solution would be to have two floors. Let's get working on that.

[Chris Stratton]

uhm yeah they are... Now Im just curious as to why they want me to use felt :/

To mop up the leftover oil...

Seriously, the felt thing is someone's mistake/confusion. Suede soles can sometimes look a bit like felt, but they are the inside of leather - chemically treated skin, not a compressed mat of hair which is what felt actually is.

[Ray Sison]

This reminds me of doing a whole show of several dances (including a Tango and a Foxtrot--as the main attraction for the night!) on a slippery floor. We had never rehearsed on that floor (though we had performed there a year before), which was at a country club. Unexpectedly, it had been waxed and was slick.

We did fine--staying balanced and on top of our feet. I am still very proud of being able to perform in those circumstances, and present a good show to a full house! Still, I would not wish those kinds of conditions anywhere, especially in social dance venues where a lot of people are just starting out to pursue their dance passion...

:cool:

[wooh]

The majority of the time I was dancing when I started off was spent on a very slick floor. Maybe that's why I don't get the problem. If I haven't been dancing in a while, I get the shoe brush out so I've got a bit more stick until I get my bearings back, but if I were to complain to one of my instructors the floor is too slick for me to do anything, I'd flat out be told to get over it. It just seems easier to learn to adjust to the floor than to worry about my shoes.
Only time I've ever complained about a floor (that was consistent) was doing a group performance on a flypaper-like floor one time. The choreography included my husband doing a knee slide and the end had us doing a floor sweep. Rehearsing beforehand, my husband hit the ground, and literally stopped dead and fell forward. So he thought through, decided on an adjustment and tried again. This time he ripped both knees of his pants. Needless to say, the knee slide and floor sweep were cut for that show. But oh my goodness, did my knees hurt after that.
Then there's the time I torqued my knee and ankle (and would have hit the floor if not for my partner catching me) because all of my body was turning, except for the foot stuck to a water patch on the floor.
I just think it's crazy to believe that std/sm dancers should just have to expect sticky patches for the "safety" of lat/rh dancers. What if someone's latin round was right after a standard round where the dancers spread baby powder in various spots on the floor? Would that be ok as well?

[fascination]

I try really hard to ignore the whole floor freakout scenario...I almost never care...there have only been two times in my life that I really even noticed...I suspect this is b/c when I was new I would practice anywhere, in any shoe...and make it work...the garage was slippery and hard so I danced in tennis shoes...the laundry room was tacky and vinyl so I used ballet slippers...whatever

having said that...i once did a showcase at a dive that still had the previous night's beer on the floor...there was simply no way to slide the foot on that goo...so I didn't

and last year at usdsc the floor was pretty sticky...my guess was that since it was everywhere it was largely about the humidity there...but ya know...ya just deal with it.. but the third day (I did 150 heats there, not counting callbacks) my feet were bleeding...still, there is so much other internal stuff to freak about...I never even get to worrying about the externals

[Josh]

agree fasc--

There are so many factors we can control, that to waste mental energy on something we cannot is silly, IMO.

It seems like so many dancers spend half their energy on stuff that gives them a trivial advantage (like hairdrying their caster-oiled shoes), instead of working on things that matter so much more.