I left that studio... I guess for the good

[ballroom4life]

Hi everyone,

It's taken me a few days to post about this because I was initially kind of ticked off and I didn't want to risk saying things I didn't mean, so now that I had a chance to cool off, here goes:

I've been going to a franchise studio for the past year and a half. I initially went because I desperately wanted to learn how to ballroom dance and, although I've always danced on my own, I wanted to get formal training for once.

Since I joined the studio, I've had lots of fun, have learned many new moves and technique and of course have paid a lot of $$$. However, recently, I had been feeling a lot of financial strain due to a situation that was out of my control. So I decided it was time to leave the studio as I could no longer afford to stay with them.

I went a few days ago and told my instructor (who happens to be one of the owners of the studio) that I could no longer continue due to my financial situation, and I explained to him that I needed a refund on the lessons I had left (I had paid everything in advance). He said no problem.

When I went a few days later to receive my refund, I went into the other owners office, and as she was writing me a check, I asked her "so, I was wondering, in the event that I wanted to come to a party, could I do that and I would pay the fee?"

You know what she said?

"we don't sell individual parties, we only see packages of parties and lessons"

I was insulted. Why? Because I felt like a business transaction. On top of that, I don't want to boast or anything, but I was their best student, and I had provided them publicity both on the radio and on television (only three weeks ago!). If it weren't for me they would have looked like a crappy studio because they would have no one to "show off" (which by the way, I practiced a lot which is the main reason I was progressing quickly). Again, I don't mean to sound self-conceited but it is the truth of the situation.

In addition, I have a friend who also paid them thousands of $$ who is currently going to this studio and is the main reason I wanted to go to the parties (we always go together). When I told her this, she was equally insulted and said that after her packaged expired she would no longer buy lessons.

And finally, when I go to the parties, it's not like I'm taking up all the guys or anything. In fact, I lead (although I am a girl) beginners 90% of the time because I feel bad that there are women who want to dance when there aren't enough guys/instructors.

Sorry that was long, but I felt like venting. What do you guys think?

[fascination]

I think your anger, while not unwarranted, is wasted...and that your experience is not uncommon and that now you are in a position to pick a better studio....it is a business...and while folks can also be friendly, paying customers should never mistake what they are buying...they are not buying an understanding relationship...am sorry...I hope that doesn't sound too blunt...I hope you will find a new place to dance and I wish you luck

[etp777]

Yep, a whole lot of people in here can identify with bad experiences with franchise studios (not me, I'm a zealot ;) ). But Fasc is right, ti's not worth being upset about it, jsut realize you're right to leave this one, and when money allows, move on and find someplace you fit in better and that treats you better.

[waltzgirl]

Your situation is not unusual, unfortunately. A lot of people have had similar experiences. It always seems to me that studios that act that way are shooting themselves in the foot. If they had been nicer to you, no doubt you would have gone back to them when you could afford lessons again. So while I agree with fasc that it's a business, it's certainly not good business practice to unnecessarily antagonize a customer.

I'd recommend looking around for an independent studio. Usually, you can attend whatever you want--parties, group lessons, and/or privates--and pay for things individually. So you can keep dancing at whatever level you can afford at the moment. If I were looking for a new studio, I'd attend parties and take the introductory package at a few of them to see where I'd be happiest. And I'd pay attention to what their sales pitch was like--if they give you a hard sell at the beginning, that's an indication of how you are going to be treated from then on.

[and123]

BTDT. Studio owner was my biggest fan and supporter while I shoveled money his way, but when things got tough financially and I was getting irritated with empty promises and inability to make progress, his position was very clear. Despite what I had done to support the studio, I could easily be replaced.

It hurts, it sucks, but move on. And definitely take as many people with you as you can :cool:

[Cal]

Hi everyone,

When I went a few days later to receive my refund, I went into the other owners office, and as she was writing me a check, I asked her "so, I was wondering, in the event that I wanted to come to a party, could I do that and I would pay the fee?"

You know what she said?

"we don't sell individual parties, we only see packages of parties and lessons"

I was insulted. Why? Because I felt like a business transaction. . . . What do you guys think?

Hmm - I don't think you should feel insulted. Usually franchise studios sell "units" of private lessons/group lessons/parties that cannot be split apart. You were the one who initially proposed a business transaction, in essence, that you pay only for parties. She replied, in essence: No, the studio doesn't sell individual parties.
It really doesn't sound to me as though there was anything "personal" or insulting when the studio owner replied in the negative. It wouldn't have mattered if you were the best student or if you'd been the worst student: the owner would, no doubt, have replied in the negative in both scenarios.
But now, put that behind you, and look for another studio that WILL let you pay just for attending parties. Here's wishing you happy dancing!

[ballroom4life]

Thanks for the advice guys.

To me it just seemed unreasonable that they wouldn't let me attend the parties. What cost am I adding to the party by showing up? And if I am adding a cost, I am willing to pay.

However, I have found a great independant studio in my area. It's an actual ballroom dance school that teaches mainly children and young adults (also older adults) and focuses mainly on competition. It is the first school of this kind in our area. I have spoken to the owner many times through e-mail and she has told me all of their prices straight up ($60 private and $10 group) and was very comprehensive. On top of that she is one of (if not THE) top dancer of her country (Latvia) and she told me she's bringing in her partner (also a top dancer) from Russia.

My goal now is to train like mad and go to competitions (which I never could at the chain studio because they were obscenely expensive) just to show them. :mad:

It's okay though, I've gotten over my initial anger and I'm moving on...

[jwlinson]

Wow, I'd never heard of a party not being available by itself. Our studio (an independent) has former students coming back to parties all the time.

We have packages that include everything, but you can also go "a la carte."

We've visited parties at other studios too, and haven't come across this. Is it that common?

[waltzgirl]

I think it's very common in franchise studios. They often only sell packages that include privates, groups, and parties--nothing a la carte. Their parties are only open to students currently on a package.

[waltzgirl]

However, I have found a great independant studio in my area. It's an actual ballroom dance school that teaches mainly children and young adults (also older adults) and focuses mainly on competition. It is the first school of this kind in our area. I have spoken to the owner many times through e-mail and she has told me all of their prices straight up ($60 private and $10 group) and was very comprehensive. On top of that she is one of (if not THE) top dancer of her country (Latvia) and she told me she's bringing in her partner (also a top dancer) from Russia.

My goal now is to train like mad and go to competitions (which I never could at the chain studio because they were obscenely expensive) just to show them. :mad:

It's okay though, I've gotten over my initial anger and I'm moving on...


Glad to hear it, b4l! I hope you have a great time at your new studio.

[etp777]

parents studio lets you buy parties sseperately (though whether you ahve to be current student or not, not sure). My studio I'm not sure if they do, but thye don't charge regular students for parties. Parties and group classes are free as long as you had a private lesson that week. Since I've always had at least one private lesson every week (as long as I was in the country, anyway ;) ) never had to fin dout about price for party or class seperately.

[ballroom4life]

I think it's very common in franchise studios. They often only sell packages that include privates, groups, and parties--nothing a la carte. Their parties are only open to students currently on a package.

Yes, exactly. To me this is snobby. It's like you're not part of their clique unless you're a full paying customer.
Wow, now that I see it in this light, I'm glad I don't go there anymore.

[ballroom4life]

parents studio lets you buy parties sseperately (though whether you ahve to be current student or not, not sure). My studio I'm not sure if they do, but thye don't charge regular students for parties. Parties and group classes are free as long as you had a private lesson that week. Since I've always had at least one private lesson every week (as long as I was in the country, anyway ;) ) never had to fin dout about price for party or class seperately.

Not quite for the studio I went to... You had a certain amount of parties and groups that came in your package. I thought this was kind of lousy because as a regular student, you're paying such a high price such that you're covering the overhead costs for their parties. And it doesn't cost the studio any additional cost to let more students come to parties/groups because they will happen anyways. Hope that makes sense.

[ballroom4life]

Glad to hear it, b4l! I hope you have a great time at your new studio.

Thanks waltzgirl! :-D I'm actually really excited for the change!

[waltzgirl]

Well, I don't know if it's snobby. It's just part of their business model. They want to create a friendly, club-like atmosphere, where people can make friends and see the same people every time they come. Since their students all learn the same things in a very structured syllabus, it's more likely that they will have successful experiences dancing with other students than with the random people who show up at open parties. The social, fun, "big happy family" atmosphere is part of what they offer to people. And for some people, it's a very important part of what they are looking for in a studio.

Of course, the cynical might say that they don't have open parties because they don't want their students to see people from other studios dancing better than their students or hear about other studios' prices, other good teachers in town, etc.

[etp777]

lol, no comment,

[fascination]

Of course, the cynical might say that they don't have open parties because they don't want their students to see people from other studios dancing better than their students or hear about other studios' prices, other good teachers in town, etc.
I have experienced this sort of thing...and yes the closed parties are common...not absolute but common and if open, not warm

[jwlinson]

Of course, the cynical might say that they don't have open parties because they don't want their students to see people from other studios dancing better than their students or hear about other studios' prices, other good teachers in town, etc.

Now this we *have* experienced. There's another studio in town that does strictly American. We do both Int and Am, but focus on Int. We went to one of their Friday parties, and heard "look how they're dancing. What are they doing? They don't do it like *we* do."

So naturally we're asked "so where do you take lessons?" by their students... Their prices were higher than ours, and we've had a few people actually migrate from that other studio to ours. It wasn't intentional, but happened all the same.

[ballroom4life]

Yea, you guys seem to be right...

I can see how they would be afraid that other, actually good dancers (no offense) would make the franchise look bad. I mean, they show you the same moves over and over, because you're paying for step, whereas at other studios people may learn a bigger variety of patterns and consequently "wow" the crowd.

Which brings me to another reason for my frustration: the "holding back" factor. I felt this so much at the franchise studio. Sometimes my instructors would show me a cool move (which I was capable of doing if shown) and then they would be like "but I can't teach you that right now". Then why show it to me? To tempt me in hopes that I would buy more steps? To me this is nonsense. Why show me something later, when you can show it to me now, and I would probably get it? This is just irritating!

Sorry, this venting is quite therapeutic, and thanks for listening guys...:?

[Cal]

Yea, you guys seem to be right...

I can see how they would be afraid that other, actually good dancers (no offense) would make the franchise look bad. I mean, they show you the same moves over and over, because you're paying for step, whereas at other studios people may learn a bigger variety of patterns and consequently "wow" the crowd.

Which brings me to another reason for my frustration: the "holding back" factor. I felt this so much at the franchise studio. Sometimes my instructors would show me a cool move (which I was capable of doing if shown) and then they would be like "but I can't teach you that right now". Then why show it to me? To tempt me in hopes that I would buy more steps? To me this is nonsense. Why show me something later, when you can show it to me now, and I would probably get it? This is just irritating!

Sorry, this venting is quite therapeutic, and thanks for listening guys...:?

Wait - I thought that you are the "best" dancer at that studio, so they must have taught you something. Be careful - people might think that you're being a bit . . . .snobby.

Maybe their sales/teaching model isn't right for you. Leave it at that.

[ballroom4life]

Let me just clarify a bit:

Sure I may seem "advanced" in front of the people at the studio, but that's just from a technique perspective. When you have learned the steps they teach you, until you purchase another package, they just keep on perfecting your technique. This is not useless, but it would be nice to learn a few "flash moves" to expand your dance repertoire. What good is all this technique if, at a party, you can only do the box step?!

Honestly, if someone from another studio came to our parties and was taught technique and expression in addition to a decent variety of step, they could totally whip my butt hands down.

In addition, you need to keep in consideration that, although a teacher is partly responsible for a student's success/failure, it is the duty of the student to practice and seek further information. I have tried to do this while at this studio, despite their "social" environment.

What I mean to say is not that I am an awesome dancer, but rather that the standards of the studio are quite "low" such that someone like myself (who does not know a lot of moves and who hasn't been dancing for a long time) can be considered pretty good. I hope I am making myself clear... I really didn't mean to come off as a snob! ;)

[latingal]

b4l, no worries...I find that discussions about franchise studios tend to bring up strong emotions on all sides of the coin. I'm just guessing, but from what I read in your original post, it would seem to me that it had to hurt to be refused entrance into the studio's parties because you no longer had the financial wherewithall to afford packages at the place. Especially since it sounds like they had your loyalty before that.

The venting is theraputic (and fine to do here, with hopefully some empathetic listeners to help), but some might misread it...and again I might have misread the whole situation. But if you are hurting over the abrupt dismissal, please do realize it happens with this type of "business model" at times, and turn it into a positive, this might be a serendipitous event for you - you may have found an independent studio that suits your needs better!

[Zhena]

I mean, they show you the same moves over and over, because you're paying for step, whereas at other studios people may learn a bigger variety of patterns and consequently "wow" the crowd.

Which brings me to another reason for my frustration: the "holding back" factor. I felt this so much at the franchise studio. Sometimes my instructors would show me a cool move (which I was capable of doing if shown) and then they would be like "but I can't teach you that right now". Then why show it to me? To tempt me in hopes that I would buy more steps? To me this is nonsense. Why show me something later, when you can show it to me now, and I would probably get it? This is just irritating!



Again, not all franchise studios teach this way. DH and I go to a franchise studio, but what we learn depends on what we are able to absorb. "Paying for step" sounds wierd and perverted. Yes, there is a syllabus, but we pay by the lesson, and the content of the lesson is not restricted by how many lessons we have had in the past. If we're ready for a new step, we learn a new step. In fact (as I think I've mentioned on previous posts) our current instructor seems to like to throw new moves at us whether we think we're ready or not.

Our studio also operates on the "package" system -- I think people come to the parties only if they are currently taking lessons. I doubt they check to make sure you had a private lesson during that calendar week before letting you in the door on a party night, but in general the attendees are current students. The parties are not actually advertised as "socials" but as "practice parties" for current students. It's part of the deal.

Just my two cents....

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Well, I don't know if it's snobby. It's just part of their business model. They want to create a friendly, club-like atmosphere, where people can make friends and see the same people every time they come. Since their students all learn the same things in a very structured syllabus, it's more likely that they will have successful experiences dancing with other students than with the random people who show up at open parties. The social, fun, "big happy family" atmosphere is part of what they offer to people. And for some people, it's a very important part of what they are looking for in a studio.

Of course, the cynical might say that they don't have open parties because they don't want their students to see people from other studios dancing better than their students or hear about other studios' prices, other good teachers in town, etc.
I think it's also possible that package students might feel that they are subsidizing a la carte students: "I buy XXX units, yet this person pays $10, comes right in and monopolizes my instructor."

[ballroom4life]

Merry Christmas everyone!:p

Now, back to the subject,
I do want to clarify as well that this is only at the franchise I attended, I have no idea what goes on elsewhere...

And yes, I suppose you guys are right about the business thing. I mean, I guess I was just chocked at the fact that they were acting all buddy buddy and then when I don't have any more money it's like "bye now..." *shuts doors in my face* (I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the picture).

I won't mentioned the other things that bothered me, because I don't want to come off as bitter, but somehow this "dance business" (again, not all franchises) seems so fake to me now.:confused:

[SPratt74]

Merry Christmas everyone!:p

Now, back to the subject,
I do want to clarify as well that this is only at the franchise I attended, I have no idea what goes on elsewhere...

And yes, I suppose you guys are right about the business thing. I mean, I guess I was just chocked at the fact that they were acting all buddy buddy and then when I don't have any more money it's like "bye now..." *shuts doors in my face* (I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the picture).

It's your money, and you decide what you want to do with it. Just don't be surprised if they don't act like your friends when you leave, because they don't have to be nice if they aren't taking your money (they are sales people) and/or never considered you a friend. Not all of them are like this though. You just have to find the right one for you is all.

I won't mentioned the other things that bothered me, because I don't want to come off as bitter, but somehow this "dance business" (again, not all franchises) seems so fake to me now.:confused:

I understand how you feel. But again, just find an instructor that suits you. I mean... maybe you aren't where you should be. Maybe there is another place that is better for you and overall will work out better than you expected. I truly believe in this. I like to think that things happen for a reason though. That's just me is all.

And I understand what it's like to vent. If I hadn't had the supporters I had on here, I probably wouldn't of kept dancing. But now I'm learning silver steps, and am further ahead than I thought I would be about this time last year! Just don't give up. Keep dancing. And hey, what couldn't be better than to keep improving and to keep dancing and to be able to say hey, I'm really proud of what I'm accomplishing right now! It's truly a great feeling... trust me on this one! ;)

[ballroom4life]

Thanks for the encouragement SPratt74, I really appreciated it!

Don't worry, I'll never stop dancing. As I said before, I feel even more motivated now that this happened...grrr....

[etp777]

If you really follow Spratt's example you'll not only continue to improve greatly in dancing, but also get a new job and a new guy. ;)

[SPratt74]

If you really follow Spratt's example you'll not only continue to improve greatly in dancing, but also get a new job and a new guy. ;)

Haha!!!! That's tooooooooo funny!!!! ;)

[SPratt74]

Thanks for the encouragement SPratt74, I really appreciated it!

Don't worry, I'll never stop dancing. As I said before, I feel even more motivated now that this happened...grrr....

Yep!!! Totally understand!!! And you will get there. It won't happen over night, and you may have to look at a few places before you find the right place for you. But it will happen, and when it does be sure to take advantage!

And if it helps, I might not be as financially unstable as I was earlier this year, but I know what it's like to not be able to afford lessons. And thank goodness I can come and go as I please, because that would have stopped me from dancing a long time ago as well. It did help that I communicated with my instructor though, because he waited patiently for me while I figured out my life at that time. Now, he's probably really glad that I did, because I can take lessons on a more weekly basis than I was able to do before hand. So, I can actually afford more than what we started with back then. I wish more instructors were like this, because it is a win-win type of situation in the long haul. Not only do you get to keep students, but I'm bringing in a good twenty students for him from my new work place and groups that I am in as well. ;)

[ballroom4life]

Haha!!!! That's tooooooooo funny!!!! ;)

Wait, is there some sort of inside joke here?

Fill me in...:cool:

[etp777]

Yeah, a lot of us aren't particularly financially stable (though I should be after this contract, in theory). As Spratt said though, when you're in the right studio with the right instructor, they'll be more than willing to work around this with you so that you can still get the best experience (or the most comp time, or most instruction time, or whatever your goal is) for your money, without pressuring you with hard sale tactics. And it can even happen at a franchise school. ;) Least, did for me.

[ballroom4life]

Yep!!! Totally understand!!! And you will get there. It won't happen over night, and you may have to look at a few places before you find the right place for you. But it will happen, and when it does be sure to take advantage!

And if it helps, I might not be as financially unstable as I was earlier this year, but I know what it's like to not be able to afford lessons. And thank goodness I can come and go as I please, because that would have stopped me from dancing a long time ago as well. It did help that I communicated with my instructor though, because he waited patiently for me while I figured out my life at that time. Now, he's probably really glad that I did, because I can take lessons on a more weekly basis than I was able to do before hand. So, I can actually afford more than what we started with back then. I wish more instructors were like this, because it is a win-win type of situation in the long haul. Not only do you get to keep students, but I'm bringing in a good twenty students for him from my new work place and groups that I am in as well. ;)

That's good to know! I'm really glad for you.:D

What I'm going to do is apply for a personal training position at a gym and hopefully make some decent money there, to afford more lessons.

And I calculated that, with what I have right now, I'll be able to take 2 private lessons a month (so one lesson biweekly) plus one group lesson a week (on latin technique) at the independent studio I've contacted, in addition to weekly parties at one of the community centers in our area. Plus, I'll totally load up on those inexpensive dance events/lessons such as the local swing club and latin club. I realized I can do so much more with my money now that it's in my own hands (as opposed to the franchise's hands!).

[SPratt74]

Wait, is there some sort of inside joke here?

Fill me in...:cool:

I'll have to pm you when I have more time. ;)

[SPratt74]

Yeah, a lot of us aren't particularly financially stable (though I should be after this contract, in theory). As Spratt said though, when you're in the right studio with the right instructor, they'll be more than willing to work around this with you so that you can still get the best experience (or the most comp time, or most instruction time, or whatever your goal is) for your money, without pressuring you with hard sale tactics. And it can even happen at a franchise school. ;) Least, did for me.

Exactly! But communication is the key though. Even when I wasn't taking lessons, I was still checking in and letting him know how I was (but also it was my way to make sure that he knew that I was still coming back and that I wasn't going to anyone else etc.), and he was even calling to ask me how I was. That meant a lot to me. He didn't have to do that. As they say, it's the thought that counts. I mean he was being really generous when he didn't need to be... especially since he was making more money with other students. But he also knows how much I enjoy dancing though, and truly saw that I really did want learn how to dance. I just couldn't afford it at the time. And now I can afford to do so, and I have been taking weekly lessons now (unless I have to work or something like that). So, it will work out. You'll do fine. You'll just have to let us know how it goes! ;)

[etp777]

Same here. Even though I'm out of the country even, so definitely not spending money at my studio, I still keep in touch. And pretty sure my pro has left at least one message on my blog and is readin git (not completely sure because there are two pros in my area with same first name, mine and one of my other friends, and comment didn't have a last name, so almost sure it was my pro, not completely though :) ). No way i can spend any money at studio now, and they're still keeping in touch, still interested, etc. Heh, and still nagging me to keep up on my dancing/practice. :P

[jwlinson]

Yeah, a lot of us aren't particularly financially stable (though I should be after this contract, in theory). As Spratt said though, when you're in the right studio with the right instructor, they'll be more than willing to work around this with you so that you can still get the best experience (or the most comp time, or most instruction time, or whatever your goal is) for your money, without pressuring you with hard sale tactics. And it can even happen at a franchise school. ;) Least, did for me.

We lucked up. Our coaches (also the studio's owners) have been very supportive and helpful when we've been "financially unstable."

Makes you want to work even harder to perfect your dancing.

[wooh]

Don't feel bad for venting. I think when you spend your hard-earned money on something you're passionate about, it's tough if you come to realize on the other end that it's purely business. Makes one feel....unappreciated? Maybe that's the right word? And maybe a bit betrayed, if the sales tactics played on your emotions a bit.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I think there are two major different setups for studios - one "open" in which anyone can come to parties for a fee and one "closed" where parties are only for current students. We have had both of those in our town and the "closed" one did not survive due to bad management.

[anntennis]

Depending where you live, but a lot of independent studios give excellent social parties, sometimes with a lesson before the party, and usually various franchise studio people attend those studios for variety.

There is a chance that you find a studio you like better, comparing to the one you going too now .

[_malakawa_]

i am reading this and i agree with etp777.

first off all don't generalize - because not every franchised studio is like that where you where.

yes, it is business, but also in most of the cases you became friend with your students/teachers.

it depends what is a politics in the studio.

some studios has better teachers then the others. now i have a couple whom spent xy $$$ in independent studio, and they are dancing for couple of years, and they still don't know some basic steps.

it is not everything in the steps. it is important that you built your confidence and that you look good in those steps that you've learned.

i will give you an example - in my "ex" country :) some couples had so many figures in their routines that they looked messy .... and second couple danced more basic steps, but they do it properly and trained, and they were fantastic.

you need to find what is best for you ( actually you said that you already found). maybe after few months it will be the similar situation in that studio.

you need to feel comfortable and confidence with your teacher and your studio.

sorry for this long replay. :)