Help with a CBL variant move

[Canadian Guy]

Need your help on this move. Don't know the name but its Salsa so I guess nothing has names :roll: but its a CBL with a turn but the lead is thru the woman's waist/hips instead of her hands and arms.

My problem is with getting the woman's hands over her head. She has both her hands above her head crossed as I lead her across my body and into the turn.

The way its was shown to me: from a open hold on the 1 or 2, leader throws the woman's arms up and the woman then keeps her hands and arms raised while the leader goes for the waist/hips with his hands and opens up for the Cross Body on the 3, turn her on the 5 by rotating her waist/hips.

When I throw, her arms go up a little then hovers then she gets the idea and up they go. When I see other people do it, it looks so natural and smooth, when I do it, I feel rushed and I am never sure how much strength I should be putting into the throw up. When I try to put more strength into the throw it feels ever more rushed and unnatural.

Is there something I am supposed to be doing before as a lead to communicate that a hand throw is coming - other than to whisper in her ear that its coming - that works BTW :wink: or is there some special way to throw the woman's arms up?

Help for the beginner is appreciated.

[pygmalion]

Oh! That's different. I'd always thought that the arm styling in that move was the lady's choice, and not explicitly led. Any of you salseros out there lead that move?

[peachexploration]

Hi Canadian Guy. Let me look at a couple of my video links. I think I know what you're talking about but let me check. BRB :D

[peachexploration]

CG, take a look at this link and let us know if this is the variation you're speaking of or at least close to it.
http://www.salsamemphis.com/videoclips.html
Look at the clip labeled Godwin Jesudasan and Gitana Davila -

[Salsero_AT]

Hmmm... when i lead that kind of CBL i just put my hands on the lady´s waist before turning her. when she feels my hand on her waist she normally puts her hands above her head. i never tried to throw her arms up before such a move. i do not think it is such a good way of doing this move because normally when a leader does a hand throw the lady´s arm should come down again and the leader catches it again. so i think it is hard for the lady to know that she should let her arms up... just a thought..

[SDsalsaguy]

Sounds right to me AT.

[pepe]

There are few variations of the move (XBL turn, lead with hands on her hips).
Both are basically choreographed, there is no way you can lead unsuspected lady.

There is no sucha thing as “normally”, women learn how the hand will go up or down after a throw.

Canadian Guy - try doing continues move ending with throw rather than “now up”. Also, start the lead on8. Still like I said, she has to know the rule (""arms up when I do this""). Will help you if you stop thinking as you the one who lifts her arms (although it does look that way for audience). Also, don’t miss to grab her waist on time even if she is slow to put arms up.

“whisper in her ear” the lead! Man I like your idea. Forget everything I said and do your way :)

[pygmalion]

I'm not trying to be difficult, here, guys, but why do you want to lead the lady's arm styling? Styling is one of the few things in the lady's control, so why not let her decide what to do with her arms, unless it's a prepared routine. Just my thought.

[pygmalion]

On the other hand, looking back, I used to dance with this guy, David, who used that move all the time. When he reached for my waist and led that turn, I knew he expected me to do the arms up thing, so I usually did it, even though he wasn't leading.

[DanceMentor]

I agree that this is something the lady should do for added flare, rather than lead. I do a CBL behind the back that works like you describe.

[pepe]

This is not an individual styling, works only if done together. (btw, I agree on comments about lady styling)

Try this:
Guys, wrap your hands around her wrists (left goes clockw. and right counterclw.) and (when your hands below her lower arms) push up (looks like you throw them up).
You can add (after the throw) slide down her body to the waist (without blushing :) ). Also you can do only with left hand, with right reach for the waist right away.

I think Canadian Guy is thinking about this one.

[Canadian Guy]

CG, take a look at this link and let us know if this is the variation you're speaking of or at least close to it.
http://www.salsamemphis.com/videoclips.html
Look at the clip labeled Godwin Jesudasan and Gitana Davila -

Wow, thats the advanced version, I only do the basic version but that is the basic move I am talking about. I noticed that he doesn't throw her arms up as I was shown but rather a diving motion into her inner arms to bring them up. But if you look closely it doesn't seem she knows what is going on until he moves her around for a couple of beats by her hips that she raises her arms fully - she had them resting on his shoulders for the first couple of beats.


Try this:
Guys, wrap your hands around her wrists (left goes clockw. and right counterclw.) and (when your hands below her lower arms) push up (looks like you throw them up).
You can add (after the throw) slide down her body to the waist (without blushing :) ). Also you can do only with left hand, with right reach for the waist right away.

I think Canadian Guy is thinking about this one.

I didn't think to try that lead until I saw the video. Although he doesn't really push her arms up in the video, I tried it and I feels better than the video move. I used to throw her arms up like I threw a deck of cards up in the air. I tried the moves described above - I like to call it the windmill or wax on/off move and it looks really good especially the part where you slide your hands down her body to her hips :bouncy:

But now I got a different problem, I am taking too long to get my hands on her hips to lead her into the CBL and am missing beats. Need more practice. That windmill and slide are just taking way to long for me.

Thanks for the help guys and girls.

BTW, my partner said that she I don't have to really lead that move anymore because she can read in my face when that move is coming. She say I have that dreaded, fear for you life face whenever I am about to go into that move and that tells her when I am about to do it. :oops:

[SDsalsaguy]

BTW, my partner said that she I don't have to really lead that move anymore because she can read in my face when that move is coming. She say I have that dreaded, fear for you life face whenever I am about to go into that move and that tells her when I am about to do it. :oops:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the candor CG... now just translate that into salsero speak, and just say that you use a visual lead! :lol:

[Sabor]

Hey, it beats shouting it out any day lol..

Leading will be infinitely easier with time CG, hopefully u will end up reacting to salsa with your partner as if u were walking alongside one-another on a smooth moonlit road, it will become second nature u just have to go thru the phases..

PS. it helps for salseros/as to switch lead/follow roles when learning, it will make u a much better lead if u learn how to follow as well.. just a thought.

[pygmalion]

Hi Sabor! Welcome. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the forums Sabor! :D

[borikensalsero]

I think a little more practice will get you there. Once you get the lead good enough, you can make just about anyone do what you want in the dancefloor.

You might just be thinking too much, since the little tips and tricks of smoothness that come after dancing a while are not there just yet it is a little more difficult. Keep at it and you’ll get soon…

By seeing the movie I saw 2 things, the guy mastered the move and the lady knows what his signals mean. It looks smooth because all he does is signal and the girl takes it from there. If a lady doesn’t know what you want, you will have to bring her hands up yourself. Smoothness can only come after some mastery until then the little growing pains will be present.

As it was previously mentioned start the lead earlier. If you can’t get down to her waist as you wish to lead the CBL, don’t worry, compensate by leading the it from the upper back, you don’t necessarily have do it, as per you see it, down at the waist. Once you have a better understanding of the move you can do it however you wish, more so, you won’t even worry about where to lead it from unless you are seeking a specific look. Bend the knees a little more, you might be up to high hence causing the arms to travel a greater distance ultimately throwing you off beat because of the amount of things you have to do.

Just a thought, unrelated of course, when the music gets rough I love to make believe that I pushed the lady back on the back part of her basic. I take a prep by spreading my legs somewhat wider than shoulder width on the 2, 3. On the 4 I place both my hands on her shoulders as she is heading towards center position, I then make believe that I push her by straightening my arms on the 5, 6, 7. For the most part girls get this really nicely and take a longer back step, throwing their bodies father back and a bit forcefully as too seem that I truly pushed them. One time I had one really cleaver lady, as soon as she came forward she had her hand up and made the motion of a slap to the right side of my face hinting for me to go left. I spun twice and came off to grab her and to do 3 consecutive CBL to where I suddenly stopped us and we stared into each other as if we just came off a heated confrontation. That was fun!