Types of Salsa

[ShyDancer]

Another question form the serial pest :lol: :oops: :lol:

Last night during a conversation about dance (what else :wink: ) I was asked which type of Salsa Im learning....my response was "Huh?" :shock: :shock: :shock: -->remember I have only had 4 lessons! <--
Firstly I didnt realise there was more than one type, and secondly he rattled off 5 or 6 different types, none of which I can remember of course.
Then before I had a chance to show him exactly what I was learning our conversation was interrupted and it was forgotten about until I was trying to sleep later that night when I was insanely curious about it.
Rather than wait until tomorrows class I thought I would jump on here and see if anyone can help me out!

I cant think of a good way to describe it....my teacher counts it as Tap 2,3,4 Tap,2,3,4 (the lady taps right first) and we do this merengue like tap around in a circle (counted as tap, step, tap , step )............ am I making any sense here?

Can anyone help?

[cocodrilo]

Hi! I've heard there are 3 types of salsa (I'm no expert on this, so those of you who know better please feel free to correct me!);
New York Style, L.A. Style and Cuban Style. The American versions seem to me to be more concerned with styling and incorporating modern moves from other dances like hip-hop(as in New York style, a la Frankie Martinez et al). This is a very cool dance form and is great because you can do it alone! I combine hip-hop/fast-footwork shine combinations with the sensual Cuban style- which is major hip-swinging. It looks and feels most natural for me!
Enjoy!

[salsachinita]

my teacher counts it as Tap 2,3,4 Tap,2,3,4 (the lady taps right first)

Hmmm.........this sounds like a Colombian style to me......havn't seen (or even heard about it being taught, apart from amongst the Colombians) for ages! (Having said that, some of these 'old school' local legends are starting to make their returns to the clubs 8) )

Melbourne has almost zero NY influence (no one dances on 2), so I guess the two main styles/schools would be L.A and Cuban. Then there's the 'old school' salsa (which was mainly influenced by Colombian/Pueto Rican) we all danced since the beginning, from about 15 years ago.

Come hang out with me at the clubs and I will show you 8) !

[Pacion]

Shydancer, yes, it could be Columbian or even Cuban influenced. My first teacher was cuban (I started learning in the UK) and the basic step that he taught was: tap, 2, 3, 4, tap, 6, 7, 8. The tap was on the spot and the next step went backwards.

Interestingly enough, I understand that one of the first styles in Sydney was columbian based, with a step on 1 and a tap on 4 :shock:

If this guy "rattled off" five or six different styles, I think he might have been trying to impress you :wink: . Seriously, the ones I am aware of, in the world (can't speak about Melbourne :( )

- New York "On 2" (there are two styles there and I still get mixed up with the "names" :oops: (some of the names I have heard are - Mambo, Eddie Torres, Power "On 2", Classic/Palludium and I think there is another term but I don't remember just now)
- LA "On 1" (influenced by the Vazquez brothers - Francisco, Luis and Johnny)
- Columbian (has a flick and or tap as part of its style)
- Puerto Rican
- Cuban
- On Clave (dancing on the clava rhythm - I kind of know what it is, not sure I can explain it yet though :oops: )
- London (allegedly - still trying to work out what that is :oops: )
- Millenium Salsa (influence by Edie ‘The Salsa Freak’ and her husband, Al ‘Liquid Silver’ Espinosa - this is a mixture of salsa and hip hop/pop locking)
- (other South American countries that may have a distinctive style that I am unaware of)

In my opinion, Frankie Martinez' "style" as mentioned by Cocodrilo has more "afro cuban" styling which is also termed as "earthy". His website is abakuadancers.com, for when you are ready to do some additional reading. This is something that I find is consistent in the New York style and similiar to the cuban style. The LA style is more "up in the air" ie. lots of hand styling rather than body styling and aerials/dips and drops.

There is also another style, if you can call it that, that combines samba and salsa moves but I am not sure if it has an "official" name as yet.

Casino de rueda - to my knowledge, not a "style" but a form of salsa that is performed in a circle with various guys taking it in turns to call out predefined moves (often in spanish). It has its basis in cuban and personally, I enjoy it. :D I was in Sydney for a while and it was extremely popular there. That was great because it generally created more of a party atmosphere and if you were dancing with a guy you could not feel the chemistry with, the "dance" only lasted a few seconds rather than a loooong 3-4 mins :D :wink:

You said that you have only had 4 lessons so far. Hang in there. It will take a little while to get to grips with it all :lol: there is a lot of information out there, both in the scene itself and on the internet, some of which is true, inaccurate and wishful thinking! When I was in Sydney, someone there told me that salsa was originally from one of the South American countries (I think he said Columbia or Peru :shock: ). Before I got there, thanks to my cuban teacher and some reading I had done, I was under the distinct impression that salsa had had its origins in Cuba. Needless to say, I did not try and debate it with him :wink: :D

In terms of the "facts" I have been able to get to grips with, salsa is derived from a cuban dance form called son (pronounced like "s_on" rather than "sun"). It is also the "child" of mambo which was born in the late 1940s in Cuba, made its way to New York and was subsequently renamed/repackaged as salsa in the early 1970s. An interesting "fact" that I discovered recently is that the cha cha cha was a "child" of mambo.

So, it was something like - son => mambo (NY) => salsa => cha cha cha

To the teachers/those dancing "forever", does the above coincide with what you know?

:idea: Can we devise a family tree of sorts :lol:

[ShyDancer]

Come hang out with me at the clubs and I will show you 8) !

And make a fool of myself with the 4 basic moves I know?? :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hehehe! As I improve with lessons I will take you up on that offer :wink:


Melbourne has almost zero NY influence (no one dances on 2),

I was taught Cha Cha on 2.......


the basic step that he taught was: tap, 2, 3, 4, tap, 6, 7, 8. The tap was on the spot and the next step went backwards.

Thats it!
One of the teachers I have my private lessons with counts it with the 6,7,8 but I usually go by the class teachers 2,3,4.


It is so interesting to read about the other styles...now I dont feel like such a goof :lol: :lol:

Thanks everyone :D :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Just to clarify in brief...

Casino is typically used in refernece to the entire school of Cuban style salsa whereas Casino de rueda (often just rueda for short) is the called/group/circle one.

New York 2 (NY2) = Eddie Torres 2 (danced 123_567 _ with the breaks on 2 & 6)
Power 2 = Classic/Palladium 2 (danced _234_678 with the breaks on 2 & 6)
[Just for contrast, "on1" is danced 123_567_ with breaks coming on 1 & 5]
In popular usage most people now seem to say mambo for either "on2" style (NY/Eddie or Power/Classic) and say salsa for "on1"

I don't know that I've ever heard of London as having its own style, but this isn't to say it doesn't...

Also, most of the Colombians I've seen seem to dance a very different style... much more glide and change of alinment, and with little arms/turns/spins (if any)... don't know if it is really thought of as its own style though...

Most dance historians will tell you that, while the building blocks for salsa come from a variety of Afro-Cuban & Soth American roots, mambo, as such, evolved in the Puerto Rican bario of New York. The name "salsa" originally came about simply as a record company marketing gimmick to have a catch all label for a variety of related music styles.

As far as Mambo/Salsa/Cha Cha... keep in mind that classic mambo was danced _234_678, with the breaks on 2 & 6... from which cha cha evolved, for a basic rhythmic structure of 234&1, where the cha cha cha comes on the 4&1 (so the break step, as in mambo, came on 2). Just as a lot of more recent salsa music has shifted to "1", so too has some of the cha cha music so, in many clubs, you will see cha cha being danced on 1 as well... The shift in music has been much less pronounced in cha cha though, so it is not uncommon to see the same person dance salsa on1 and cha cha on2 (I, for instance, am one such person... as is Vince now I think :wink:)

HTH -- it's the best I can come up with at 4:20am...

YMMV regarding all of the information above... :wink:

[salsachinita]

Melbourne has almost zero NY influence (no one dances on 2),

I was taught Cha Cha on 2.......

As SD said, Cha Cha Cha can be danced on either 1 or 2.......

When I said no one dances on 2, I really meant salsa only. For some reason Cha Cha Cha isn't very popular on the club floors locally.......so you might get a song or two......depending on the band/DJ.

Seriously, you won't make a fool of yourself if you come to the clubs. Right now we have a lot of newbies.......having a ballroom background puts you in a less vulnerable position (besides, I know everyone, so you will be in safe hands 8) )

[dancer21]

SDSalsaguy, help me on this one. Being trained in the franchise ballroom system I learned Mambo long before I learned Salsa.
As I was trained and what I see taught in the ballroom industry is the two dances are extremely similar. The timing being the main difference.
As a American Rhythm Professional competitorfor many years I found it somewhat difficult after all those years of dancing Mambo with a break on the 2, to dance Salsa with breaks on a 1 or 3....( was taught Salsa originally by a young woman when I first moved to Phoenix some years ago that either 1 or 3 was acceptable )
I also see Salsa becoming what I call a "regionally style influenced" dance much like the Hustle was in the "70's and the Swing/Jitter-Bug/"whatever else you would like to call it" through out the "40's and 50's...

What are your thoughts on this?

[Pacion]

I don't know that I've ever heard of London as having its own style, but this isn't to say it doesn't...

I have heard of it and am still trying to work out exactly what it is, which does not say much for a Londoner :oops:

I just tried Googling - "london style" salsa" - and it came up with 130 results. I think what it is supposed to be, is a mixture of all the other styles rolled into one - ie, some of the cuban moves, mixed in with Puerto Rican, Columbian, NY, LA, hip hop, jazz etc. My confusion is, the main styles incorporate that already, so, what makes "London style" different :oops: Perhaps it is a concept of "mix and match" rather than an actual style, which occurs any way?

[ShyDancer]

Heres something I found interesting last night.....my teacher told me that basicall the salsa and mambo (just started that last night) are the same dance only you omit the "tap" in mambo . She said they are danced to the same music apparently.

I did find out that the roots of what we are being taught is coloumbian :)


How long have you all been dancing?? You know SO much! Im always blown away by all your info when I come on here!

[Sagitta]

Started dancing fall 2003... :)

[Pacion]

Heres something I found interesting last night.....my teacher told me that basicall the salsa and mambo (just started that last night) are the same dance only you omit the "tap" in mambo . She said they are danced to the same music apparently.

I think that from a beginner's perspective, she is right. However, in my opinion, there are slight differences which as you dance more, take more classes and experience more teachers, you will start to pick them up yourself.

Yes, "they are danced to the same music" but "mambo" which is the On2 count, sometimes feel more "natural" with certain songs, whereas salsa, the On1 count, feels more natural with others. The cuban style also feels more natural when danced to cuban music/certain songs.

These are "little things" that you will pick up the more you do so, just get out there and dance some more :wink:

Have you bought any music CDs as yet? Or listening to music over the internet?

[borikensalsero]

The confusion over salsa and mambo dancing are pretty much because of semantics than anything else. How a person chooses to physically look when dancing mambo has no relevance as to which dance it is, mambo or salsa.

For argument sakes dancers in the US like to call dancing on1 salsa and dancing on2 mambo. Nothing wrong with that, but it might not be so somewhere else. However, the dance done to the music genre of salsa in the US happens to be called mambo, whether its dance on1 or on2. As well as the dance Mambo being better know by its music's name of SALSA.

The argument truly is that if you don't dance the mambo basic of back and forth and are stepping to the cowbell then you dance salsa. But if you have a United States mambo basic and are either stepping on1 or on2 you are dancing mambo. In my opinion, it is really how people choose to see it that makes the difference. The purists take a hold of definitions and fight for everyone to call it as they do. Ahhhh, be quiet and dance.

What makes a dance Mambo, ala US Style, is the Back and a forth motion of its basic step. In other parts of the world and styles where the back and forth motion is absent, they are still dancing mambo, however to the United States they aren't. In Cuba when we dance United States mambo-style we will be told that Mambo isn't danced as such. In Cuba, they are correct, but in the US they would be incorrect.

Hence the dance being salsa=mambo but the music salsa != Mambo.

In all, you make your own definition as to what you want to call your style, which will be greatly influenced by where you live. It has just as good-a-shot to be Mambo than anything anyone else dances. Just keep in mind that the confusion can simply be cleared up by learning what each person considers mambo, the United States born back and forth motion for the basic, or the side back, side back motion of Cubans and Colombians.

Depending on the given geographical regions we will all think of the same dance yet dance it differently.

Cubans do their 40s/50s Mambo style to 70s salsa music.
Colombians adapted their Cumbia steps to the same music they say it is salsa but when incorporated to US style it is called Mambo. Go figure...
And Dancers in New York City created their own version of Mambo, which is what we have today in the US. It ends up being the back and forth motion with the incorporation of other styles and dances by the cubans, colombians, Afro-Americans, Jews, dominicans, Ricans and anyone else that had their two cents in the making of a new dance in the US. They basically grabbed the Mambo basic and added other dances to it which eventually in 70s got huge because of the birth of a music which incorporated all of other music genres, hence the wild look of salsa dancing or if you prefer mambo dancing.

From that we have a big confusion over the same dance to an offspring of the music Mambo in salsa.

There are a bunch of people that will undoubtedly tell me that I'm wrong because if you dance cumbia style or cuban style you are doing salsa. Yet there are others that say that dancing on1 Mambo US style is dancing Salsa as well. On top of that we have the on2 US mambo crowd that says dancing on2 is the only thing that can be called mambo as long as it is done US style. Yet everyone is right dancing their mambo. :D

If we want to get down and dirty a little research will end up saying the same things as I have just said. However, we all know that for people there always seems to be a right way, hence the confusion/arguments. The worse part is hearing people argue loaded with information from hear-say… As it is now, go with the flow of what people call it around you. If you are interested in further details you can always ask, and I’ll do my best to confuse everyone even further. :D :D :D

[Pacion]

If you are interested in further details you can always ask, and I’ll do my best to confuse everyone even further. :D :D :D

:lol: :lol: Yes, you got me there! :lol: :lol:

semantics/subtleties - I guess another way to look at it is like a language. You have dialects, full of slang, then you have the more formal way of speaking. I will leave it up to you to decide whether salsa is the dialect and mambo the formal language or whether it is the reverse :wink:

Not so long ago, I learnt that mambo means "conversation with the gods" whereas, as we know, salsa means tomato sauce :wink: :lol: So, I think I can see why the jury is still out on that one :D

[SDsalsaguy]

SDSalsaguy, help me on this one. Being trained in the franchise ballroom system I learned Mambo long before I learned Salsa.
As I was trained and what I see taught in the ballroom industry is the two dances are extremely similar. The timing being the main difference.
As a American Rhythm Professional competitorfor many years I found it somewhat difficult after all those years of dancing Mambo with a break on the 2, to dance Salsa with breaks on a 1 or 3....( was taught Salsa originally by a young woman when I first moved to Phoenix some years ago that either 1 or 3 was acceptable )
I also see Salsa becoming what I call a "regionally style influenced" dance much like the Hustle was in the "70's and the Swing/Jitter-Bug/"whatever else you would like to call it" through out the "40's and 50's...

What are your thoughts on this?
OK, first off, I agree with everything Boriken said 110%! That aside, here's my take on this....

Most times what we learn is what feels natural to us... so I'm in the opposite position from you. I learned salsa first, and I learned it on1, and had been dancing it for a couple of years before I started American Rhythm so, to this day, my body just feels more natural on1. That being said, I think there *IS* a difference, aside from timing, between salsa and ballroom style mambo! Conceptually, to me, they are different dances because they are prioritizing different dynamics. As a street/club dance salsa (including non-ballroom mambo) is about smoothness and fluidity whereas ballroom mambo is about sharpness, crispness, and punctuation. I recall a presentation about dance characterization I was in a couple of years ago (by Dan Calloway), for instance, where ballroom mambo was ranked up there as fairly "confrontational" -- not to the extent, say, of Paso Doble, but certainly far more then the other Rhythm dances. Now contrast this with salsa which, as a social dance is at an entirely different end of such a conceptualization.

To provide two further anecdotes...

(1) I recall that when I first saw ballroom mambo it struck me as being really bad and rough salsa... As far as I was concerned most club dancers could lead better than almost any Rhythm competitor I saw. Now is this what was actually going on? Of course not... but the crispness and punctuation demanded by ballroom mambo was antithetical to the continuity and flow that I associated with the best club salsa. (As an aside, it seems to me that some of this distinction is now fading, as more and more Rhythm competitors seem to want to get "back" to some of the "authenticity" of salsa and as salsa becomes more of a competition and showcase dance – within salsa circles – thus demanding the punctuation of ballroom dancing.)

(2) I recall asking a U.S. Rhythm finalist to dance a salsa a couple of years ago... she heard the music as a mambo but I, just getting started with mambo, just thought of it as a salsa. What I noticed though was that, aside from the timing, when she decided to switch from mambo to salsa (about 30 seconds from the end of the song) there was a drastic change from sharp/punctuated movement to smooth/flowing movement. (A separate issue was that I asked her if she’d care to dance a salsa, which she accepted, and then, when we got to the floor, insisted on trying to make me dance a ballroom mambo which was (a) not what I asked her to dance, and (b) beyond my then current skills.)

As far as the regionalization thing, I actually think salsa is beginning to move back towards a centralized structure. There will always be both national and stylistic variations, but with more and more international congresses and traveling instructors, the basic structure seems to be becoming more and more transferable (similar to how, in the ballroom world, one can now get the best training in the world without having to go to London).

Hope that’s of some help/interest.

[templeria]

I have heard of it and am still trying to work out exactly what it is, which does not say much for a Londoner

I just tried Googling - "london style" salsa" - and it came up with 130 results. I think what it is supposed to be, is a mixture of all the other styles rolled into one - ie, some of the cuban moves, mixed in with Puerto Rican, Columbian, NY, LA, hip hop, jazz etc. My confusion is, the main styles incorporate that already, so, what makes "London style" different Perhaps it is a concept of "mix and match" rather than an actual style, which occurs any way?

Ditto I'm a Londoner and I've never been able to figure it out either! As far as I can gather London Style Salsa as a name/style was coined by Leon Rose and other people then took it up. I think when people refer to London style there are talking about the incorpoation of R&B/hip hop/street dance moves. I tend to think of people like Laith and Lanre Ajani as dancing London style. Then again they dance completely differently to Leon so I could be way off the mark! :?

[Pacion]

Hi Templeria! Yes, Laith and Lanre are quite distinctive to Leon. That said, to be honest, I don't see that many people in London combining those styles so how can it be "London style" :oops: surely it takes more than a few dancers to say it is "London style"?

Incidentally, I think Robert Charlemagne's style has also been referred to as "London style". :wink:

[Pacion]

I was just researching a salsa style and came across a school advertising classes in Mambo On1. :roll: They were also offering classes in salsa AND Mambo On2.

Looks like the styles are evolving and I am learning something new everyday (I thought that Mambo = Salsa On2) :wink:

[DiAnAoN1]

I was just researching a salsa style and came across a school advertising classes in Mambo On1. :roll: They were also offering classes in salsa AND Mambo On2.

Looks like the styles are evolving and I am learning something new everyday (I thought that Mambo = Salsa On2) :wink:

Usually for teaching purposes it is taught on 1 like for example a school here teaches NY style on1 :shock: mainly because it is easier to learn and it takes time and practice to hear the 2.

[Genesius Redux]

I was just researching a salsa style and came across a school advertising classes in Mambo On1. :roll: They were also offering classes in salsa AND Mambo On2.

Looks like the styles are evolving and I am learning something new everyday (I thought that Mambo = Salsa On2) :wink:

:lol:

I just don't understand what all the preoccupation about on 1 and on 2 is. Different rhythmically, that's all.

[Sagitta]

We all reach our goal of dancing salsa, through different journeys. To each his/her own exploration. Salsa styles, on1, on2, on3, on4...all means to achieve the same end. The gift of sharing what each one has that is beautiful, luminous and true through dance. :D

(I had a wonderful night...music flowing through me, hands around and around... :D )

[itorres]

Heres something I found interesting last night.....my teacher told me that basicall the salsa and mambo (just started that last night) are the same dance only you omit the "tap" in mambo . She said they are danced to the same music apparently.

I did find out that the roots of what we are being taught is coloumbian :)

Definitely, if you're tapping it comes from Columbia. They call that Cumbia. I took a seminar at a Congress with a Columbian group. I told them I could do it without the tap, just like Salsa On 1. They replied, "Then it's not Cumbia".

The Salsa and Mambo basic are the same, neither should have a tap. The tap is sometimes added by teachers of "On 2" to give students something to do on the 1.

Regards, all.

[Ms_Sunlight]

Now I'm confused. I've been taught a cumbia step as a side-to-side step pattern. R-L-R-tap-L-R-L-tap (follower's footwork.)

[dTas]

i think the difference between dances has less and less to do with the footwork and timing and more to do with feeling and attitude.

Salsa On1, On2, with tap, without tap, side to side, forward, back... so what. do you have a salsa "feel" or a cumbia "feel" (or rumba, or cha cha, or foxtrot for that matter)

yes, steps and timing are very important but i think they're all instruments to obtain the feeling of the dance.

[ash88]

Now I'm confused. I've been taught a cumbia step as a side-to-side step pattern. R-L-R-tap-L-R-L-tap (follower's footwork.)

I think someone has sneakily taught you Bachata :wink:

Bachata's plans for world-domination live on!

[SurfSalsa]

I agree 100% with what Boriken and SDsalsaguy both said in a way - to use an analogy, what does the word "football" mean? In some countries it means carrying an egg-shaped ball in your hand and kicking it far (and different groups have different rules), in the USA it means throwing the egg far, in other countries it means kicking a round ball (soccer)... so similarly mambo and salsa have many many meanings.

To me the two distinctions are ballroom-style mambo (tap on 1, break on 2, stuccato type movements, over-accentuated hips - danced on many distinct 4-beat types of music) and salsa (flow, flava... must be from the hot sauce! - danced on the clave, be it on 1 or 2).

Coincidently, I learnt ballroom mambo first at a studio, then much later salsa at clubs (and have since dropped mambo from my ballroom sylabus...)

But some of the confusion comes from it that some salsa's like LA, London, etc., use a mambo-type back-and-forth step which is also called mambo...

Interesting times with language! But as Boriken said, clarify the context within which the word is used, and you should be OK.

[Ms_Sunlight]

I think someone has sneakily taught you Bachata :wink:

Bachata's plans for world-domination live on!

Aargh! I've been infiltrated by bachata! Cleanse me of this impurity!

:D :D :D

[itorres]

Now I'm confused. I've been taught a cumbia step as a side-to-side step pattern. R-L-R-tap-L-R-L-tap (follower's footwork.)
Forgive me. :oops: I forgot to mention in the Cumbia you do both breaks to the back. (On 1 and 5). What you describe does sound like a Bachata.

Actually instead of the Tap the proper thing to do is to lift the leg and lean a bit on the 4 and 8 and then come down on the 1 and 5.
The Bachata:
1 Side L, 2 Close R, 3 Side L, 4 Lift R,
5 Side R, 6 Close L, 7 Side R, 8 Lift L

The Bachata as a dance is pretty cool 8) , coordinating turns can be a challenge initially but you can do away with only one or two in social dancing.

About the Tap
If you were taught a regular Salsa/Mambo basic breaking forward and back, then it's not a Cumbia. Its just the basic with a little tap added to help the beginner not to step on the 1 but on the 2.
As you see here,
....my teacher counts it as Tap 2,3,4 Tap,2,3,4 (the lady taps right first) and we do this merengue like tap around in a circle (counted as tap, step, tap , step)

The tap on the 1 is like a Nicotine patch to help you kick the habit of stepping on the 1, but really it shouldn't be done.

The first thing my teacher said about the basic "I know a lot of you dance already and you've picked up moves, but if you are used to doing a little kick or tap on the 1 - forget it. (we dance On2) It's not part of the proper Salsa basic. Let's do it right here in class; you can do that out there on your own. :) "

[David]

Heres something I found interesting last night.....my teacher told me that basicall the salsa and mambo (just started that last night) are the same dance only you omit the "tap" in mambo . She said they are danced to the same music apparently.

I did find out that the roots of what we are being taught is coloumbian :)


How long have you all been dancing?? You know SO much! Im always blown away by all your info when I come on here!

In Aus, and it seems to hold true for a lot of other places judging from the replies, Salsa is On1, be it LA, Columbian, Cuban, or whatever. While Mambo is On2, although generally associated more with Eddie Torres NY style than the other forms of On2, it's also often referred to as On2 Salsa.

When I first started learning Salsa it was Colombian (ballroom) style... still makes me cringe. The guy who was teaching it was adamant that it was the original and only true style of salsa and that all others were mere imitations, and what's worse is they were lazy because they left out the tap! In this case the pattern for the basic was 1,2,3,tap,5,6,7,tap and while it is a forward-backward basic a lot of the rest of it is very circular. No dancing "in the slot".

I've been dancing since Feb '03.

[itorres]

Just to clarify in brief...

Casino is typically used in refernece to the entire school of Cuban style salsa whereas Casino de rueda (often just rueda for short) is the called/group/circle one.

New York 2 (NY2) = Eddie Torres 2 (danced 123_567 _ with the breaks on 2 & 6)
Power 2 = Classic/Palladium 2 (danced _234_678 with the breaks on 2 & 6)
[Just for contrast, "on1" is danced 123_567_ with breaks coming on 1 & 5]
In popular usage most people now seem to say mambo for either "on2" style (NY/Eddie or Power/Classic) and say salsa for "on1"

I don't know that I've ever heard of London as having its own style, but this isn't to say it doesn't...

Also, most of the Colombians I've seen seem to dance a very different style... much more glide and change of alinment, and with little arms/turns/spins (if any)... don't know if it is really thought of as its own style though...

Most dance historians will tell you that, while the building blocks for salsa come from a variety of Afro-Cuban & Soth American roots, mambo, as such, evolved in the Puerto Rican bario of New York. The name "salsa" originally came about simply as a record company marketing gimmick to have a catch all label for a variety of related music styles.

As far as Mambo/Salsa/Cha Cha... keep in mind that classic mambo was danced _234_678, with the breaks on 2 & 6... from which cha cha evolved, for a basic rhythmic structure of 234&1, where the cha cha cha comes on the 4&1 (so the break step, as in mambo, came on 2). Just as a lot of more recent salsa music has shifted to "1", so too has some of the cha cha music so, in many clubs, you will see cha cha being danced on 1 as well... The shift in music has been much less pronounced in cha cha though, so it is not uncommon to see the same person dance salsa on1 and cha cha on2 (I, for instance, am one such person... as is Vince now I think :wink:)

HTH -- it's the best I can come up with at 4:20am...

YMMV regarding all of the information above... :wink:
I agree with you 99 44/100% on these comments. I haven't found this much of what I think is "accurate" information (as judged by me) posted by the same person. :)

Styles have technical attributes like basic step pattern and timing and "regional/stylistic" attributes like choice of moves. However, very broad and inexact definitions are given about the different styles. Often opinions are given on forums and casual conversations and passed on without validating the source.

How much must a dance performance change to classify it as a different style altogether? If a couple lives in LA but goes to NY to visit and does all the same moves but breaks On 2 (Power) are they dancing NY style? What and how much must they change?

Anyway, what can I add to your comments?
Cuban style - another important technical difference I have seen in 3 instructional videos on Cuban style is that their basic step mirrors their partner. The partners break forward and backward at the same time. 1 - Man R Fwd, Lady L Fwd. 5 - Man L Back, Lady R Back

The Columbian style you describe is what I have seen. Additionally, the basic step is derived from Cumbia and includes a little Tap/kick on the beat we would usually rest. I find many will break back on both the 1 and 5. (As per seminars taken from Columbians in our Salsa Congress)

About Cha Cha Cha: Cha Cha is closely related to the Mambo but I don't know if "evolved" in the usual meaning is the word to use. Enrique Jorrin is widely regarded as the Cha Cha rhythm's father. According to an article he wrote (owe you the link) he sat down and engineered the rhythm according to what he was hearing played at the time, and the way he saw dancers struggling with the breaking On 2 thing. So he says he purposely slowed the rhythm down and added that 4 & 1 shuffle to make it easier to dance.

I also agree, Cha Cha HAS to be danced breaking On 2 for the shuffle steps to coincide with the 4 & 1 beats. If someone breaks On 1 on Cha Cha they don't understand the rhythm or can't hear it on the music they are dancing either. I know it's not that easy, since I had to really think about it when I was first taught the basic Cha Cha step.

[Danoo]

on 1 suits me just fine :lol: :lol:

[Canadian Guy]

New York 2 (NY2) = Eddie Torres 2 (danced 123_567 _ with the breaks on 2 & 6)
Power 2 = Classic/Palladium 2 (danced _234_678 with the breaks on 2 & 6)
[Just for contrast, "on1" is danced 123_567_ with breaks coming on 1 & 5]
In popular usage most people now seem to say mambo for either "on2" style (NY/Eddie or Power/Classic) and say salsa for "on1"


I hear this thing about breaks but what is it? I learn on1 and have seen videos of on2 (Eddie style) dancers and keep hearing there is more time for ladies to spin on2 but I just don't get it. :oops: You still only 8 beats / 2 bars of music to dance your 6 steps.

The on1 rhythm is (leader's timing):

--LF------RF-----LF---------RF------LF---------RF
Quick Quick Sloooooow Quick Quick Sloooooow
---1-----2-----3------4-----5-------6-------7------8

To me, the on2 (Eddie style) rhythm looks to be the same with exception that 1 is a break back and 5 is a forward step instead of back. It's still a QQS QQS rhythm....or am I wrong?



I alway though that On2 seemed to imply a chance in rhythm to

Sloooooow Quick Quick Sloooooow Quick Quick
---1-----2-----3-----4------5-------6----7------8

I am not sure about the foot work for this type of on2 or if even such a style exists.

[itorres]

New York 2 (NY2) = Eddie Torres 2 (danced 123_567 _ with the breaks on 2 & 6)
Power 2 = Classic/Palladium 2 (danced _234_678 with the breaks on 2 & 6)
[Just for contrast, "on1" is danced 123_567_ with breaks coming on 1 & 5]
In popular usage most people now seem to say mambo for either "on2" style (NY/Eddie or Power/Classic) and say salsa for "on1"
I hear this thing about breaks but what is it? I learn on1 and have seen videos of on2 (Eddie style) dancers and keep hearing there is more time for ladies to spin on2 but I just don't get it. :oops: You still only 8 beats / 2 bars of music to dance your 6 steps.

The on1 rhythm is (leader's timing):

--LF------RF-----LF---------RF------LF---------RF
Quick Quick Sloooooow Quick Quick Sloooooow
---1-----2-----3------4-----5-------6-------7------8

To me, the on2 (Eddie style) rhythm looks to be the same with exception that 1 is a break back and 5 is a forward step instead of back. It's still a QQS QQS rhythm....or am I wrong?

I alway though that On2 seemed to imply a chance in rhythm to

Sloooooow Quick Quick Sloooooow Quick Quick
---1-----2-----3-----4------5-------6----7------8

I am not sure about the foot work for this type of on2 or if even such a style exists.

The Classic Dance / Ballet definition of a break is that it is "a change of direction". So if you dance On 1 and start feet together, on the 1 you step L forward and immediately change direction. So you start forward and break your momentum rocking back to your R foot.

(Your last example is breaking On 3) :)

Now there are two main styles of breaking On 2.
a) Palladium ON 2 / Power 2 / Dancing "En Clave" (some dispute this last one as a synonym)
b) Eddie Torres On 2 (sometimes called NY On2 which I find confusing because you don't know if it's Palladium (from NY) On 2)

If we use your notation for Power 2:
---------LF----RF-----LF------------RF------LF-----RF
oooowQuick Quick Sloooooow Quick Quick Sloooo
---1-----2-----3------4-----5-------6-------7------8
This what SDSalsaGuy describes. It's your same On 1 footwork, breaking one beat delayed. The main problem here is that it's harder for dancers to step On 2 because the 1 is strongly accented in the music and your body wants to go on 1. This requires a keen ear for the music and understanding the beat count. Thus, since it is harder to master, people who can dance On 2 (whether they choose to dance On 1 or On 2) have a more developed sense of the rhythm, and may feel they are somewhat superior to people who can only dance On 1. (Hope not to open can of worms here... :lol: )

Now Eddie Torres On 2 is sort of a hybrid between the two. You step on the 1-2-3, 5-6-7 but the step pattern is different so you break On 2 and 6.
So, the Man starts it
1 - stepping L back slightly (so it's almost closed position)
2 - step R further back (this is the break)
3 - step L in place
4 - No steps
5 - step R fwd past his L
6 - step L further fwd (this is the other break)
7 - step R in place
8 - No steps

I haven't experimented much with ET 2, but notice that when you rest on 4 and 8 your feet are in a 4th position as opposed to having your feet in a closed position like On 1 or Power 2. I think this may be partially the reason while they feel like they have more time. If you want to turn On 1 you have to step out of closed position On the 1 and then turn. On ET 2 you could begin a turn On the 1 since your feet are positioned already for an easier turn.

On of the peculiarities of ET 2 style is that they guy still lives and he can keep the definition he created intact. For example he specifies that the man starts breaking back and that's an order! :x :) Other styles have more or less evolved through time.

So the main 3 step patterns and timings are:
On 1, Power 2/ On 2 / Palladium 2, and Eddie Torres 2 (or NY On 2).

I have a doubt as to what most people understand when they hear NY On 2. Do they feel it is ET 2 necessarily or could it be Power 2? Any comments?

Hope hthis helps.

[Canadian Guy]

The Classic Dance / Ballet definition of a break is that it is "a change of direction". So if you dance On 1 and start feet together, on the 1 you step L forward and immediately change direction. So you start forward and break your momentum rocking back to your R foot.


Don't mean to be picky but if a break is a change of direction, how can any dance break on the on1. If zero or at beginning there is no direction - so how can you change direction on 1? The earliest whole beat that you could change direction is on 2...

In the above on1 example, you start going forward on1, on2 you change direction and rock back. Isn't the change in direction on2 not on1?

I am confused :oops:

Regarding the rhythm of on1 vs. on2 (ET style), are they both Quick Quick Slow, Quick Quick Slow?

[Ms_Sunlight]

You can break on 1 because you have a 1 every 2 bars... it comes right after the 8.

[Alias]

The Classic Dance / Ballet definition of a break is that it is "a change of direction". So if you dance On 1 and start feet together, on the 1 you step L forward and immediately change direction. So you start forward and break your momentum rocking back to your R foot.

Don't mean to be picky but if a break is a change of direction, how can any dance break on the on1...

"Break on x" (where x is a count standing for an instant) means that the change of direction occurs on x, just before x you were going in one direction (for example forward in a slot) and right after x you are going in another direction (for example backward in the same slot).
So you can go forward between instant 0 (which corresponds to instant 8 of the previous cycle) and instant 1, and backward between instant 1 and instant 2, then "break on 1".
One can be more precise about what is meant by "you are going" but for me it's a bit difficult to detail in english (involving center of mass or center of gravity ...).

Regarding the rhythm of on1 vs. on2 (ET style), are they both Quick Quick Slow, Quick Quick Slow?

The use of count makes it clearer when it comes to explain and understand when things happen in salsa, it's more precise as it's related to instants (in my point of view), while "quick" and "slow" refer to durations.
There is somewhere on DF a topic about the use of counts versus the use of "quick" and "slow".

[bmah]

I'm new to this forum and a new dancer as well. I'm learning Salsa on One and Salsa on Two at different schools. Both schools say that their style is more popular in NYC clubs, so I'm not sure which style I should continue learning. As a beginner, I find it confusing because one style starts forward on the left foot while the other style starts backward on the left foot. Actually, this isn't the difficult part -- it's when I have to do turns and stuff that I have trouble remembering my basics.

I'm thinking about abandoning one style and just concentrate on the other, but not sure which. Or maybe I should continue learning both styles and hope everything clicks in for me. Can someone help me decide?

[alemana]

nyc club dancing is on 2.

[africana]

I'm new to this forum and a new dancer as well. I'm learning Salsa on One and Salsa on Two at different schools. Both schools say that their style is more popular in NYC clubs, so I'm not sure which style I should continue learning.

I'm thinking about abandoning one style and just concentrate on the other, but not sure which. Or maybe I should continue learning both styles and hope everything clicks in for me. Can someone help me decide? Yes you should focus on one style for at least a year or so. if you don't live in NYC, learn on1 first

[kdogg]

I thought there was only one kind of salsa: onTime :wink: . I tried the beginner's on2 class last weekend and I was doing great until social dancing after the class; on2 went out of the window. It was hard since I had on1 on auto-pilot. I've yet to explore the beauty of on2. Any advice for on1 dancer trying out on2?

[africana]

I thought there was only one kind of salsa: onTime :wink: . I tried the beginner's on2 class last weekend and I was doing great until social dancing after the class; on2 went out of the window. It was hard since I had on1 on auto-pilot. I've yet to explore the beauty of on2. Any advice for on1 dancer trying out on2?
Check out this dicussion
http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=576

[kdogg]

I thought there was only one kind of salsa: onTime :wink: . I tried the beginner's on2 class last weekend and I was doing great until social dancing after the class; on2 went out of the window. It was hard since I had on1 on auto-pilot. I've yet to explore the beauty of on2. Any advice for on1 dancer trying out on2?
Check out this dicussion
http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=576

Thanks a bunch. SalsaForum seems to have less traffic than DF.

[africana]

yeah pretty quiet, let me know if my suggestion there helps any

[kdogg]

yeah pretty quiet, let me know if my suggestion there helps any

I remember going over that thread before. The discussion there was somewhat helpful. I've enough book knowledge on on2 (ET2 and Power2), but minimal on-the-floor experience. I had only one class on on2 (ET2) so I can't say much yet. It seems easier to dance on Power 2 if the music stresses on beats 2 and 6; there are some songs that I feel like I'm dancing on1 when actually I'm dancing on Power 2. The challenge is finding the beat 2 in the music.