Patterns for Men's Ballroom Gear?? [Archive]

flexi

01-08-2008, 02:40 PM

I am looking for patterns for the following..

Wide Leg Pants,
A lot of Standard Guys have wide leg pants with 1 or two pleats.. the legs of the pants are 10-12 diameter I think.. they look very comfortable, and when you sweat ALOT every day it would be nice to have the extra room.

Men's Vest
Just a simpe vest.

Dress Shirt
A dress shirt, but fitted in a way where you can raise your arms for dancing.
Probably a modified latin shirt with a collar would work.

I highly doubt there's a nice MaCallas or Butterwick pattern featuring Geiampiero or Palo Bosco on the cover modeling for high style for housewifes to make their hubbies dance wear ( hey it might sell))..
But if anyone has their hands on some OLD past their life dance wear.. maybe it could be carefully dissassembled and patterns could be made..
And if I continue dreaming maybe we could all share.. or charge a nominal for the trouble fee..

Any ideas??

Chris Stratton

01-08-2008, 10:39 PM

If you want to make the shirt out of a stretch fabric, I'd just take ye old classic sleeved leotard pattern out of the ballgown pile, reduce that bugle in the top third of the front sideseams, and add a fair amount of ease to account for a different style of fit. The problem when doing this with a woven is that you won't be able to put your arms back down again(!). I tried and am back to buying shirts...

Vests are fairly easy to copy.

Pants... don't even want to go there, my living room is still dominated by a huge stack of draftings that didn't work. I think Larinda pointed out that the typical smooth pro's wide leg pants are/were from International Male (glitter optional).

star_gazer

01-08-2008, 11:05 PM

I think Larinda pointed out that the typical smooth pro's wide leg pants are/were from International Male (glitter optional).I'm looking at their web page...please, exactly which of the International Male pants were those??

Chris Stratton

01-08-2008, 11:14 PM

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=19921 is a three page thread on the subject.

I believe it was the wide leg gabardine. I never ordered them, because for 32" they list 32" finished inseam as the only option, and that's probably too short for me with dance shoes, though it depends on the overall fit.

Joe

01-09-2008, 06:37 AM

What's wrong with OTR dress shirts? I've never really had an issue with them.

etp777

01-09-2008, 08:17 AM

If it's a "fitted" shirt (or modern fit, tapered, slim fit, fitted, andd there's at least one other term one brand uses),not a problem at all. If it's not, and sometimes even with those, should have tailor make sure it's fitted a bit more than most OTR shirts, particularly in the sleeves and some darts in back to bring in waist (unless you're wearing vest over it, then boddy's' fitting matters less). Also will likely want some method of helping hold it down. But I won't go through all those options again, if you search in here, I started a thread once asking about smooth shirts in the past, and everyone gave lots of good suggestsions.

As to patterns, I know mom couldn't find any good patterns on latin shirts, so borrowed a couple from me (that I "borrowed" from roommate when he moved out and left them there) and just worked backwards from a finished shirt, as OP suggested.

Josh

01-09-2008, 10:00 AM

Pants... don't even want to go there, my living room is still dominated by a huge stack of draftings that didn't work. I think Larinda pointed out that the typical smooth pro's wide leg pants are/were from International Male (glitter optional).

In that thread she said "10 years ago" ... and they are $50. Sorry, but if they're $50, they will look like they cost $50. I'd love to get a great high quality pair of pants for competitive dancing for $50 but I know this type of material for that cost (polyester and rayon mind you), and you really do get what you pay for.

To the OP: if you really want something that fits, it WILL have to be tailored for the wearer, there's no way around it. Budget for it (expect at least $200 for dance pants, or $600 for a suit), save the money, and buy it when you have saved up enough, if cost is a big issue (I know it always is for me!). Then once you have it, there's your pattern! :-)

Larinda McRaven

01-09-2008, 11:23 AM

They were also for teaching... not competing.

etp777

01-09-2008, 11:26 AM

Yeah, needs for teaching (or practicing) are definitely not necessarily going to be same as they are for competing.

Chris Stratton

01-09-2008, 12:12 PM

I think the OP was looking for an alternative for daily wear less expensive than Taka, etc. And even below the demands of teaching there are things like late night rounds. For competition, standard dancers will be wearing the ones that match their tailsuit.

Josh

01-09-2008, 03:46 PM

They were also for teaching... not competing.

Oh ok.

flexi

01-09-2008, 03:48 PM

Ok.. I ordered my "glitter pant's" from International male..
Probably the material is very cheap and useless... but If the fit is somewhat OK, it should be pretty easy to copy at home..

I mean a copy I make won't be as nice as a Lenique $350 pair of pants... but I need some thing for daily use. And more than one set would be nice.

Now where's a decent vest..

I do have one kinda old about to be retired dress shirt that seems to have very good proportions for a dress shirt..
Maybe I could use it as a mold to "retrofit" other shirts...

I gave up a long time ago going to structure, HM or whatever..
I would prefer good tailoring... but come on guys.. lessons these days are 300$ for 45min!

I spend the money on tails and lessons.. but come on! I mean my poor practice shoes have been resoled twice already ( wore holes in them!)

Chris Stratton

01-09-2008, 03:54 PM

I've never had the uppers outlast the soles.

I've pretty much given up on reshaping shirts, the issue being that once you shrink the torso the sleeves are now too short. My current shirt preference is van heusen fitted, preferably the hard to find stretch variety.

flexi

01-09-2008, 11:59 PM

Joe

01-10-2008, 06:16 AM

In that thread she said "10 years ago" ... and they are $50. Sorry, but if they're $50, they will look like they cost $50. I'd love to get a great high quality pair of pants for competitive dancing for $50 but I know this type of material for that cost (polyester and rayon mind you), and you really do get what you pay for.
Poly and rayon should be cheaper than wool...

Josh

01-10-2008, 08:11 AM

Poly and rayon should be cheaper than wool...

Yes...and?

White Chacha

01-10-2008, 08:39 AM

For the budget conscious, try a local Hadassa Thrift Shop. You can often find an assortment of good quality mens' suits/pants and such there. When I started out dancing, I found a very nice pair of black wool slacks at the one in Brighton, MA.

Chris Stratton

01-10-2008, 09:57 AM

I thinking of trying with a few too large shirts...
the hope is later, I could score a few nice CK BCBG TOO BIG SIZES and other name brands on SALE, Dice them up, and use them for nice shirts..
might be a dream, but I'm sure there's a way..

That was my hope too, but then I looked at the pieces of fabric in big sizes vs. small. The problem is that sleeve length is measured from the center of the back, not from the shoulder. A big shirt with 34" sleeves actually has shorter sleeve pieces on it than a smaller shirt with 34" sleeves - shrink the body, and now the sleeves are too short. So this works only if you can find an oversize shirt with 36" or longer sleeves.

contracheck

01-10-2008, 11:56 AM

I've pretty much given up on reshaping shirts, the issue being that once you shrink the torso the sleeves are now too short. My current shirt preference is van heusen fitted, preferably the hard to find stretch variety.

I recently purchased a custom-made mesh Latin shirt because I had seen Maltowski, Max, Andrei, etc., wore see-through mesh shirt. This shirt fits me well, but my nipples can be seen through the fabric. I am wondering if it's OK for male dancers to show their nipples through the shirt fabric. If it isnot OK, what can I do to my shirt? At this time, I do not recall if I could see above pros' niples through their shirts.

contracheck

01-10-2008, 12:03 PM

Poly and rayon should be cheaper than wool...

I am not sure, Joe. I paid a prime price for a pair of Latin Pants made by Taka Dance of Japan. I just took a look at it's label; it says 100% Polyester.

BasicsFirst

01-10-2008, 02:01 PM

Another angle...
Any chance you're in a market large enough that you can find a 'Pattern Drafting' class? Overkill for the scenario perhaps, but by the sounds of things you'd find it quite fascinating. I took a Level 1 just for interests sake and ended up taking Level 2 finding it that interesting.

Joe

01-11-2008, 06:36 AM

Yes...and?
Yes...and you should expect the pricing to be commensurate.

Joe

01-11-2008, 06:37 AM

I am not sure, Joe. I paid a prime price for a pair of Latin Pants made by Taka Dance of Japan. I just took a look at it's label; it says 100% Polyester.
You are paying for the label and the styling.

contracheck

01-11-2008, 08:29 AM

You are paying for the label and the styling.

If you remember, I had been lookingfor the best wool fabric such as Superfine 250, etc., because people had told me that nothing beats wool. This polyester fabric of my Taka pants is actually excellent, perhaps even better than wool.

etp777

01-11-2008, 09:51 AM

S250 (actually 200 tends to be highest you can find) is going to wear out FAST, especially for a piece of clothing that is made to be worn only when wearer is moving a lot.

General rules on suits is that anything over 120 (and anything with significant portion of cashmere in the blend) is not something you expect to wear a long time. Was just discussing this on another forum trying to get some help picking out fabric for suits.

Chris Stratton

01-11-2008, 12:07 PM

Good poly is going to cost a lot more than cheap wool !

etp777

01-11-2008, 12:10 PM

If you (or anyone else) are still looking, HST has plain black in both of Scabal Super 180s lines (Miracle and Obsession) and Dormeuil Super 180s, and John Foster has plain black in their Super 200s. You might reconsider when you price them out though (John Foster is the cheapest option at $250/M, you don't want to know what the Scabal will cost you :D )

http://www.hst.com.sg
http://www.johnfosterdirect.com

Joe

01-12-2008, 02:29 PM

As you say, anything that fine isnt going to last.

etp777

01-12-2008, 02:30 PM

Nope. I'm going with S120 (from John Foster) and S130 (from some italian Mill) for anythign I have made while I'm here.

flexi

01-12-2008, 10:49 PM

Wow! they are REALLY FAST...I'd have to say if you order from international male, they are quick..They sent 3 cataloges.. one of them made me feel gay even having it in my mailbox...LOL

Anyway, actually the WIDE LEG GABERDINE pant seems to be a perfect start for a pattern for a
wide leg BAGGIE Standard Pant. As Usual, I'd like the crotch up a little higher than the original.
But that's easy, I just have attach waistband a little differet...

I also had a pair made in New Jersey by someone's mom who seems to be makeing a lot's of pants for dancers in the area.. And I'd say they are almost exactly like the WIDE LEG GABERDINE from IM

So this shirt thing isn't sounding so good. If they measure the sleeves from the center, that kinda makes this a tough job. I do know they have Long sizes.. but those are hard to find.
I was thinking that old navy has some nice cotton "dress" shirts... you can get them in enormous sizes.. I bet with a little luch they could be risized to something reasonable..
And the cotton fabrik would be nice after hours of sweat...

Any reccomendations for a vest????

Chris Stratton

01-12-2008, 10:57 PM

Well there's always waiter-wear. I had a vest like that - prefab tuxedo company (Neil Allen iirc), poly, that I wore for a few syllabus comps until I spilled fraycheck all over the front while trying to fix fraying buttonholes. Then I used it as a pattern... around here somehwere if you are curious, but generally I'd think anyone you would go to for the work could figure it out. The lady in Brooklyn who'se name I forget did a lot of longer mock tailsuit ones to be worn with black-sleeved shirts - most of the nyu team had those at one point.

Interested to see the wide leg pants.

Joe

01-13-2008, 07:43 AM

Valentina?

Joe

01-13-2008, 07:53 AM

Anyway, actually the WIDE LEG GABERDINE pant seems to be a perfect start for a pattern for a
wide leg BAGGIE Standard Pant. As Usual, I'd like the crotch up a little higher than the original.
But that's easy, I just have attach waistband a little differet...

I also had a pair made in New Jersey by someone's mom who seems to be makeing a lot's of pants for dancers in the area.. And I'd say they are almost exactly like the WIDE LEG GABERDINE from IM

The WIDE LEG GABARDINE PANT would have to be used as a pattern, because the sizes they come in appear to be limited with respect to the inseam. Size 32 and below only come in a 32" inseam, which is a bit too short.

The OFFICER DRESS PANTS might be OK too. The pic on the website of the ivory color looks baggier than the black, though, so it's hard to tell.

Vest...What about the LONDON OPERA VEST?

Chris Stratton

01-13-2008, 10:05 AM

That finished hem is a bit of a problem especially in the short length. If they are cuffed (and picture makes it look possible) then there is the chance that the cuff can be undone to provide extra length (probably don't want cuffs for dancing anyway), but it's a pain to deal with.

etp777

01-13-2008, 10:15 AM

According to some guy named Chris, the following is a good option ffor vests:

You can get a washable black "waiter vest" for around $30 at Keezer's (140 River Street) designed to be worn on its owon.

;) :D

And yes, I even left typo in as it appears in the MIT ballroom team page.

Chris Stratton

01-13-2008, 10:21 AM

That's what I was talking about as my pattern. The web page recommendation was for new beginners - someone at Flexi's level might decide it was too tacky, but it's around here somewhere too look at, fray check stain and all. Besides removing the stain, the ones I made were also intended to fit a little better.

contracheck

01-14-2008, 03:06 PM

I recently purchased a custom-made mesh Latin shirt because I had seen Maltowski, Max, Andrei, etc., wore see-through mesh shirt. This shirt fits me well, but my nipples can be seen through the fabric. I am wondering if it's OK for male dancers to show their nipples through the shirt fabric. If it isnot OK, what can I do to my shirt? At this time, I do not recall if I could see above pros' niples through their shirts.

This now becomes a serious question. My second Latin shirt arrived today from an Overseas tailor. My nipples can be seen through this shirt, too. Can someone tell me if it is OK toshow male nipples through the shirt? If not, what shall I do with these shirts (I now have two).

Joe

01-15-2008, 07:17 AM

Pasties.

White Chacha

01-15-2008, 07:55 AM

Yikes! Is this what dancesport has come to?
;-)

Joe

01-15-2008, 08:16 AM

It's already there for the ladies. ;)

contracheck

01-15-2008, 08:52 AM

Pasties.

Thanks, Joe, but what is Pasties? Is it something that covers up man's nipples? Does this mean that it is against rule to show mens nipples through the shirt in competition? I now have two expensive Latin shirts through which people can see the nipples.

Josh

01-15-2008, 09:12 AM

This now becomes a serious question. My second Latin shirt arrived today from an Overseas tailor. My nipples can be seen through this shirt, too. Can someone tell me if it is OK toshow male nipples through the shirt? If not, what shall I do with these shirts (I now have two).

Yes, it's perfectly fine. But if you can see your nipples, then it's probably a good idea to make sure the rest of your chest looks presentable too. Lol at pasties.

Larinda McRaven

01-15-2008, 09:13 AM

contracheck

01-15-2008, 11:19 AM

Why not wear a black tank top underneath.
Yes, I am wearing a tank top, or a mesh T-shirt, inside at socials presently because I don't know how people are going to react if I showed the nipples. Then, there is no reason for anyone to go through the trouble of buying and wearing see-through mesh shirts. In competition circles, I see a number of male dancers wear sheer mesh shirts and they look to me very nice. At this time, I do not recall if they show their nipples or cover them up. I am wondering if there is a rule that forbids showing male nipples thorugh the shirt. Where are all the rule doctors we have here? I am not exactly a Chippendale Dancer but at least my partner thinks I have a pair of nice looking nipples for an old man. If there is no rule, I will use a sheer shirt in my next competition. Most people think I am a crazy man, any way.

BasicsFirst

01-15-2008, 12:07 PM

contracheck

01-15-2008, 12:21 PM

Here's the IDSF dress code for Men's latin for levels Gold, Pre-champ and Champ.
Shirt/ Top:
- Any colour (includes see through material) is allowed
- The shirt can be open down to the waist.
- No rolled up sleeves

So it seems you can bare (loosely termed) your nipples, so as long they follow the IDSF dress code in your association's juridiction.

I guess that these are the final words. I am going to show my nipples in my next competition and see if I can draw judges' attention more than other dancers.

White Chacha

01-15-2008, 01:03 PM

I think you all just like typing "nipples" over and over ;-)

contracheck

01-15-2008, 01:13 PM

I think you all just like typing "nipples" over and over ;-)

No, not really. Are there better words?

Josh

01-15-2008, 10:28 PM

Yes but unfortunately we can't use them here.

wooh

01-15-2008, 11:47 PM

I guess that these are the final words. I am going to show my nipples in my next competition and see if I can draw judges' attention more than other dancers.

You should let the organizers advertise that fact. They'd probably get lots of money in spectator admissions just from people wanting to see your nipples.

Chris Stratton

01-16-2008, 12:09 AM

Will someone please lend him some duct tape?

contracheck

01-16-2008, 06:16 AM

Will someone please lend him some duct tape?

As long as it is not against the rule, why should I use duck tape on an expensive shirt and risk losing the competition.

Joe

01-16-2008, 06:22 AM

He didn't mean for you to use it on your shirt...

contracheck

01-16-2008, 09:02 AM

He didn't mean for you to use it on your shirt...

Use it across my mouth, gagged and bound?

wooh

01-16-2008, 12:58 PM

Use it across my mouth, gagged and bound?

I think the duct tape is to tie down the women (and some men) that will surely be jumping on you after they see you in your nipple baring shirt.

contracheck

01-16-2008, 01:09 PM

I think the duct tape is to tie down the women (and some men) that will surely be jumping on you after they see you in your nipple baring shirt.

More likey, if I wear my sheer Latin shirt, there will be a rule change - you can call this new rule Contracheck Rule. Otherwise, Jow will try to steal my shirt off my back.

Josh

01-16-2008, 03:07 PM

contracheck, the duct tape will also provide some nice support and lift, and will enhance your cleavage. :raisebro:

Josh

01-16-2008, 03:08 PM

I think the duct tape is to tie down the women (and some men) that will surely be jumping on you after they see you in your nipple baring shirt.

And if he uses it to gag and bind himself as he suggested, he'll attract a very interesting type of woman or man who might find that look appealing.....