Does the routine make a difference in the competition?

[yoyao]

well, It just seems the routines put up by my instructor are very basic and not so interesting. even it is for the beginer level competition, there seems nobody at my school can advance to the semifinal. It makes me wonder if I should find a different routine for the next competition, and it also seems some couples are doing a lot of complicated stuff in their routines, and they don't seem follow the rule (they are doing more intermediate or advanced steps in beginer level) and the judges don't seem to mind and they end up in final round or win prizes! what's your guys suggestion? and where can I get a better routine for Jive, Cha, Waltz and QuickStep (for beginer and intermediate) cheers

[pygmalion]

I'm not qualified to answer this staight out, yoyao. But there are some things that may impact the types of routines you do -- i.e. whether you're doing closed or open routines. Closed routines are strictly the syllabus steps, and they can look pretty boring next to open routines, which allow more complex choreography and steps at a higher level. Perhaps you were doing closed routines? That might be because of your teacher, but it's also possible that you just didn't have enough time to prepare open routines. A well-prepared closed routine is, IMHO, much better than an ill-prepared open routine. Even if the open routine is more interesting to the student, it's not necessarily better.

And as for advancing to the finals? That's a complicated one. Who knows how these things are judged. There's a good article around here somewhere about how these comps are judged. I'll try to find it for you. In the meantime, go to dancesportcomps.com. There's a good article in the judge's column there this month re: one judges view and her pet peeves. Check it out. 8)

[Adwiz]

Wel, yoyao, it seems that you have noticed an inconsistency which is unfortunate. It's probably a good idea to check in the competition rules ahead of time whether the comp is "invigilated" which means that one of the judges is there purely to see if a couple is doing an "illegal" move in their routine (outside of syllabus range).

One of the challenges in the earlier levels (up to Gold) is that there are so few steps you can choose from, so the routine can look a little boring. This is especially noticeable when you do it over and over and over again in practice despite the fact that you know more complex steps and wish you could just dance them!

But with myself just competing at the Bronze level and working my way up, I've consoled myself with the fact that everyone is in the same boat. the goal is not to create a fancy routine but to dance the simple stuff like a champion. That creates a wonderful goal for us which we strive very hard to achieve. It includes things like expression, lightness, connection, posture, footwork. When you see top dancers doing the basic steps they make it look so good. That's our goal.

We even ask our coach to dance the routine with my partner while I videotape it to review over and over again how he does it so much better than I do. It allows me to slow it down and watch the fine points.

[twodance]

It's not what you dance but how you dance it. The time limit for a heat is 90 seconds. Therefore the judges get to watch you for about 10 seconds. In that time they don't get to see all the school figures you are doing. But rather they see the quality of what it is you are doing. If your foot tech.,top line ,styling, timing and grooming are better than the other couples you are rewarded. Having a routine to compete with gives you an advantage in that you can work on the technical aspects of only those moves. So what you present to the judges will be perfect. You can't beat great looking basics. If you are bored with the level you are in try a solo routine to learn new steps in.

[Taita]

I would tend to agree with adwiz and twodance on this one. It's a mistake to get hung up on choreography or steps in lieu of good dancing. In my experience, it's not what you dance in your routine, but how you dance it.

Given that dance competitions are judged very subjectively and choreography can be important, it's easy to get lost in the importance of choreography. Particularly if you tend to think other couple are winning with their choreography. However, remember that the judges don't know your choreography and they will probably see you dance for maybe 10 seconds. You can't control which 10 seconds they'll see. Even if you have a fantastic, eye turning open routine, they may catch the 10 seconds where you are dancing a basic and mark you just on how well you did that. Still, it is quite possible to dance the most basic elements in a way that will be noticed and marked favorably.

At one competition, I was a last moment fill-in for a Waltz/Quickstep 2-dance event. I only had an hour to work with my partner before we had to dance. To further add to the challenge, my partner did not know quickstep! :shock: So we spent 20 minutes before the event learning quickstep. Needless to say,
our choreography was extremely simple (especially our quickstep!). My partner was a real trooper and did an outstanding job dancing our primitive choreography with balance, control, and precision. When you combined this with a big bright smile which lit up the ballroom, it was impossible not stand out in a very crowded field of established couples. Despite our challenges, we danced very well. It was not until we managed to reach a semi-final in a very crowded field that our obvious weakness in quickstep finally did us in :wink: . Not bad for an hour of practice! :D.

At a recent competition, my partner and I won our category in a very crowded field (over 35 couples! :shock: ). Since we make quality of movement a primary focus in our lessons and practices, choreography often goes by the wayside. I couldn't tell you how long we worked on just basic footwork, but I can tell you we worked on choreography for maybe a few hours (enough to learn the routines!) To us, choreography is simply a teaching tool to learn technique. Consequently, our choreography is pretty basic for our level. Given these circumstances, it felt great hearing the applause for us when we won such a large competition! Hearing professionals and knowledgable fans compliment us on the 'level of quality' in our dancing tells me that our strategy and hard work is starting to pay off. While there is still a long way to go, I'd prefer quality of movement over choreography any day.

Yoyao, you cannot worry about what the judges or other couples are doing. Focus on yourself first. Sometimes things that are 'more complicated' may only look that way when danced with a higher quality of movement. Every competition is different and take care to read all of the rules carefully. Sometimes, the rules allow for this amount of syllabus flexibility! Sometimes events are not being closely invigilated and people get away with breaking the rules. However, you cannot rely on being able to get away with breaking the rules. Being disqualified or being forced to make last minute adjustments to your choreography 30 seconds before your next dance can be very uncomfortable and may hurt you more than if you simply stuck to the simple stuff.

Your instructor may be doing you a favor by staying with the basic routines. If your balance and basic movement is not at a sufficient level, you may not be ready for more advanced stuff. If you are getting bored with your routines, you are always free to add variations or look for some 'complicated stuff'. Just be sure to be careful not to do anything outside of the rules at a competition. Another option is to focus on how you can dance your legal choreography better. If dancing well is a priority for you, then you need to be patient with yourself and work on doing the basics really well. If you have good balance along with good quality of movement and you can combine this with a clear discernible rhythm, this should be more than enough to advance.

Hope this helps!

back to lurk mode...

[yoyao]

Thanks for the answer guys, one thing I noticed during the competition is that the couple start off seperatly rather than in close postition ususally got marked down first. it just seems to be more interesting I guess. another reason I can think of is that there are about 5 to 6 couples from my university alone and we all doing the same routine. but for the other university, each couple seems has their own unique routine. I guess this is an disadvantage. although, I do agree that judge will only look at you for 10 sec, but round after round of the same sample routine doing by like 5 or 6 couples at same time, it just not so interesting as other couple that they are doing totally different stuff?

[Porfirio Landeros]

I noticed during the competition is that the couple start off seperatly rather than in close postition

This is not an observation to be taken lightly.

From the beginning level and on upward, before working on fancy routines, you can be cleaning up your overall presence.

Examples:
Good Grooming (slick hair, makeup...)
Taking the floor with confidence
Solid/rehersed starting positions
How you carry yourself between dances/songs
Maintaining your performance on exit
All these things count, and I didn't even have a routine until I decided to jump to Championship level!

[msc]

To us, choreography is simply a teaching tool to learn technique. Consequently, our choreography is pretty basic for our level.

I agree completely. Even the most basic of moves can be difficult to execute well. And if you can't execute the basic moves well, then the advanced moves are going to look very, very ungainly, especially in Standard.

[SDsalsaguy]

Excellent post Taita!

Ummm, so what do we have to do to keep you out of lurk mode? :wink:

[Taita]

Excellent post Taita!

Ummm, so what do we have to do to keep you out of lurk mode? :wink:

Thanks! I'm glad you guys appreciate my opinions. I hope they help!

as far as staying out of lurk mode....

Hmmmm..... that could be quite a challenge. I think cash would be a good start :wink:

or maybe just a lift to Australia... :wink:

...back to lurk mode...

[SDsalsaguy]

Ummm, so what do we have to do to keep you out of lurk mode? :wink:
as far as staying out of lurk mode....

Hmmmm..... that could be quite a challenge. I think cash would be a good start :wink:

or maybe just a lift to Australia... :wink:
So do you want in on the bank heist or what? Boriken's going to be our :car: man, but that's far from a complete plan and team... :wink:

[Taita]

So do you want in on the bank heist or what? Boriken's going to be our :car: man, but that's far from a complete plan and team... :wink:

You got a navigator yet? :wink:

[yoyao]

guys, just came back from IVDC, one of the most competitive and biggest dance competition for british universities! there are about 7 to 8 heaps in each dance! and around 20 couples in each heap! my partner and me did really well, we went as far as 4th round and alsmot get in to semifinal! especially consider how simple our routin is! in the 4th round, we are the only couples in Cha that starting as close position. I think we are at the stage where we need to add more stuff to the routin and make it more interesting! and as ususal, Oxford and Cambridge again took away all the prizes...in the final team competition round, they end up competing aginst temselves even their B team (the 2nd unit) beat all the other universities A team. so the final is like their A team aginst their own B team!

[Taita]

my partner and me did really well, we went as far as 4th round and alsmot get in to semifinal!

Congratulations! As far as being the only ones starting in closed position, it probably made you guys stand out! :D

[delamusica]

yea yoyao! way to go! :)

[yoyao]

Next competition, Championship! :D

[pygmalion]

Any of you new DF members have an opinion to share on this? What impact, if any, does the routine/choreography hve on the outsome of a comp?

[Laura]

As with everything else in dancesport, it all depends. If you are a beginning or intermediate level dancer, there's so much to work on in your technique and presentation that loading on the choreography won't make as much a difference as improving your fundamental technique and presentation will.

I once danced a Novice-level (the lowest of the out-of syllabus levels in the US) dancing a routine that contained only Bronze-level steps. My partner and I weren't even wearing costumes, and costumes were allowed in that division. We came in second. We were lucky, because the marks were all over the place between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, and mathematically it came down to us taking 2nd...but the way I like to think about it is that despite dancing against people in tailsuits and gowns with open-level choreography, we held our own against them by doing what we could do as well as we possibly could. I must say, that moment was the high point of my amateur career this far....

If you're an advanced dancer, there isn't as much variation between the competitors when it comes to fundamental technique. EVERYONE is on time, EVERYONE is using proper footwork, EVERYONE dances the correct alignments, EVERYONE is dresses impeccably, EVERYONE has a good frame, EVERYONE knows how to walk on the floor, how to take position, how to bow. At that level, the points of interest that differentiate between the couples are much pickier than in a lower-level event. So, in this case, choreography becomes much more important because it's a way for the couple to stand out and show their musicality, interpretation of and approach to the dance, and to highlight their unique strengths.

[Chris Stratton]

Far more important than how interesting your routine might be is that you look good every single second of the dance. The judges don't have a lot of time to study each couple, so whenever they happen to look at you you want to be doing something that you do well - not the setup or recovery of a really fun step that happens to distrupt the flow of your dancing.

I got off to a somewhat wierd start in my dancing, jumping into the silver division for my second competition. I worked on and used the entire silver syllabus, but rarely got above semifinals in major comps. Not for another year did I first actually win a comp at silver, by dropping back to only the most secure pre-bronze material. From that point on, it was simply a matter of reintroducing the silver (and eventually gold) steps bit by bit, as they neared real mastery.

(for international readers: pre-bronze = restricted to 'student teacher' step list. Silver = restricted to 'licentiate' etc)

[tasche]

Also important to think about is not so much adding new steps but grouping/linking them in different ways to get a feeling of movement and shape. I'm trying my best to describe what I mean. Hopefully someone can pick this idea up and eloborate better than I. You can use simple bronze steps and group so they look stale boring and straight or connect them together in a new fresh way that is better "looking" while not getting out of your league

[Adwiz]

What impact, if any, does the routine/choreography hve on the outsome of a comp?

At the syllabus levels, I don't think it makes any difference.

Recently we took part in the USABDA NW Regionals in Seattle. We generally compete only at Bronze level. Another couple begged us to join them at Silver Latin with just 10 minutes to go before the event. We have never danced a Samba in competition, so we went out into the hallway and spent 5 minutes putting a quick routine together. We didn't even know which steps were allowed at Silver so we kept it simple to avoid disqualification. Then we participated using our Bronze Cha Cha and Rumba routines and our newly designed but pretty simple Samba routine. We won the event, proving that it isn't the choreography but the quality of the dancing that counts at syllabus levels.

[Warren J. Dew]

Any of you new DF members have an opinion to share on this? What impact, if any, does the routine/choreography hve on the outsome of a comp?

Depends a lot on the competition.

I have a tape of a Blackpool lecture where Sammy Stopford was scheduled to speak on the topic of choreography. He opened the lecture with the following statement: "Choreography is for people who can't dance." Then he proceeded to talk about technique for the rest of the lecture.

Now, that may be a bit of an overstatement, but I think that at the highest levels, technique is a much bigger differentiator than choreography. And even when choreography is a differentiator, it's as often the case that more basic choreography is better as the opposite.

I think that additional material can be useful in competition in the following circumstances:

- where one needs additional material to ensure that one has enough options to avoid collisions

- when different material would be more suited to one's physique or style (as Laura mentions)

- when one has inferior technique, and hopes that one can draw the judges' attention away from it by using fancy choreography

The last case works best when the judges aren't significantly more qualified than the dancers. That doesn't happen too often, but it's not unknown.

[mamboqueen]

I agree that it is better to have a simple routine that is as close to perfect than to worry about more complicated/fancy steps being put into the routine. I did bronze at my comp this weekend and I noticed people in PRE bronze doing more elaborate stuff and I was getting a little nervous about it. But, I focused on what my teacher told me would matter (posture, connection, putting lots of expression into it) and we took 1st in all but one dance. And I think the routines (I say "routines", but I pretty much just followed him) we did were not much more elaborate than the same ones he did for the newcomer students.

One thing I will say. When I watched the latin open gold and gold part of the comp, there was one female instructor that I could not keep my eyes off of (and hence, her partner as well). She had the BEST facial expressions during the music and a really cute, different costume. I told her I wanted her to make a videotape of her expressions so I could take some lessons from it!

[pygmalion]

Yay! Fantastic results, mamboqueen. :banana:

[mamboqueen]

Thanks, Jenn. My confidence really needed those results (although I still would have been happy with less first places.....). It will help me for the next one.

BTW, Larinda....I met someone who knew you. He is from a studio in CT and just mentioned your name; spoke highly of you, in fact!

[pygmalion]

I'm glad you got in there and kicked ... um ... did good. :wink: :D Do you know when your next comp will be?

[mamboqueen]

Yankee Classic on June 18th. I imagine there will be more competition. This one seemed to be loaded with newcomers, pre-bronze, and bronze; a small smattering of silver and a handful of gold, mostly from the studio I dance with). I was amazed that there was a studio that came from Arizona for this comp.

[Larinda McRaven]

Hi Mamboqueen! I am glad you had a good time at the comp. I am sure I have no idea who it was that you spoke with about me, but I am comforted to know that it was favorable. Hope we can meet at Yankee.

[mr bixx]

theres one key thing i havent seen really posted in this thread yet that concearns comps. you need to have expression. its the most important thing ther eis. a judge only watches you for about 15 seconds. he could careless if your doing heel toe or ball flat. judges dont watch tech. as much as they do expression. make your rumba be very sexy and seductive and playful. make your foxtrott me very jazzy and like your walking through a park. make your bolero feel like you just lost the love of your life.
my thing at work is teaching connection and expression. i can teach anyone to do side togehter back side togheter forward. but making that box feel like rumba compared to waltz is what is important. just remember that when you dance.

[spatten]

judges dont watch tech. as much as they do expression.

I am not quite sure that is the case. From what I have seen, technique plays a large extent in the placings. If there is a distinct difference in technical ability - I don't think any amount of expression will make up for it.

As an example, which is purely objective mind you, Jukka and Sirpa took 1st place at the British Open at least 3 times. While I believe they have out of this world technique, in my opinion other couples had superior interpration and expression of the Latin dances.

In the end I believe a judge is going to recall based on what he/she perfers in a dance be it topline, shaping, footwork, movement, light and shade or whatever.

More to the topic, someone once told me "you will never impress a judge with choreography". That makes a lot of sense to me.

Scott

[Larinda McRaven]

Thats right, you probably won't win because of choreogaphy, however...

If a couple looks bad or has trouble executing things it could be because the choreography is flawed from a mechanical point of view. So in that sense, choreography can have everything to do with not winning.

I often watch couples and think "Eeekk, that looks really shaky, it doesn't seem to go together" It sometimes seems that choreography is jumbled or doesn't flow. So I think choreography does make a huge difference.

[Vince A]

I noticed during the competition is that the couple start off seperatly rather than in close postition

This is not an observation to be taken lightly.

From the beginning level and on upward, before working on fancy routines, you can be cleaning up your overall presence.

Examples:
Good Grooming (slick hair, makeup...)
Taking the floor with confidence
Solid/rehersed starting positions
How you carry yourself between dances/songs
Maintaining your performance on exit
All these things count . . .

DITTO!

I couldn't agree more . . . judges can tell the difference between lead and follow and a routine. That being said, a good male Pro must 'present' his female, and of course, a female Pro must 'present' the male.

As a beginner, newcomer, etc., you should be pretty basic and secure in doing the 'basics.' I placed 5th once as a Newcomer, and afterwards, talking with a few of the judges . . . they told me I was the better dancer on the floor and would have taken 1st . . . if I hadn't been doing "advanced" footwork. (My Pro should have also known this, but no biggie - dance and learn.)

yayao . . did you get the point???

[Chris Stratton]

they told me I was the better dancer on the floor and would have taken 1st . . . if I hadn't been doing "advanced" footwork.

Um, WHAT?????

There's no such thing as advanced footwork.

There are alternative versions of steps not suitable or even legal for new beginners (alternate chasses in cha-cha for example, or flick basic in jive)

And there are some situations in the standard dances where certain open variations of steps sometimes need adapted footwork.

But I don't think there's any such thing as 'advanced footwork' for basic figures.

[Vince A]

they told me I was the better dancer on the floor and would have taken 1st . . . if I hadn't been doing "advanced" footwork.

Um, WHAT?????

There's no such thing as advanced footwork.

There are alternative versions of steps not suitable or even legal for new beginners (alternate chasses in cha-cha for example, or flick basic in jive)

And there are some situations in the standard dances where certain open variations of steps sometimes need adapted footwork.

But I don't think there's any such thing as 'advanced footwork' for basic figures.
OK, but that's (quote/unquote) their words - as I still have my notes from the posted "remarks," but I do appreciate the way you said it .. . makes more sense . . . and I'm sure that is what they meant! And the chasses was one of the 'dings.'

[cl5814]

I noticed during the competition is that the couple start off seperatly rather than in close postition

This is not an observation to be taken lightly.

From the beginning level and on upward, before working on fancy routines, you can be cleaning up your overall presence.

Examples:
Good Grooming (slick hair, makeup...)
Taking the floor with confidence
Solid/rehersed starting positions
How you carry yourself between dances/songs
Maintaining your performance on exit
All these things count . . .

DITTO!

I couldn't agree more . . . judges can tell the difference between lead and follow and a routine. That being said, a good male Pro must 'present' his female, and of course, a female Pro must 'present' the male.

As a beginner, newcomer, etc., you should be pretty basic and secure in doing the 'basics.' I placed 5th once as a Newcomer, and afterwards, talking with a few of the judges . . . they told me I was the better dancer on the floor and would have taken 1st . . . if I hadn't been doing "advanced" footwork. (My Pro should have also known this, but no biggie - dance and learn.)

yayao . . did you get the point???

Vince,

Could you elaborate more on the "advanced footwoork" comment ?

[Vince A]

Chris gives a great examples two posts up!!! Is that enough for you???

[Laura]

Wow, this is the second thread I've looked at today where competitors would be much better served by better and clearer explanations from the judges. Perhaps the judge was trying to say that you were dancing out of syllabus, or dancing a variation of a step that is out of syllabus or beyond the syallbus level stipulated for the event you were entered. If the judges can't clearly explain themselves, then how will people learn? And then there's the whole issue out there of teachers who have little idea as to what is where in the syallbus, but I'll stop here. Believe it or not, a lot of this is written down in black and white. It's quite clear for the International style dances; unfortunately this is not the case for the American style dances, but some people have been trying for years to improve this situation.

[Chris Stratton]

So I take it we are talking about something like a ronde chasse or slip chasse in cha cha? Where the basic would have been prefereable? I can buy that - I don't even think the alternate forms are even legal in the lowest levels.

I'd personally think of 'footwork' more in terms of technique - how you place the foot, what part of the foot, etc. But I could see someone calling these alternate figures footwork, since the first difference you notice is in the legs/feet.

--------

Laura makes a very good point about clarity of the comments you sometimes get at comps - or even from visiting coaches. In a few situations, I've had to take that comment back to my regular coach and say "so and so said I had a problem with _____ - can you help my understand what he/she might have meant?". Once I even had to take the video along to help figure the issue out - there was a problem, but not in the first way I would have thought from the judge's words. In fairness to the judges though, sometimes the reason your own coach can explain the complaint better is because they are your coach - you already have a good basis for communication.

[DanceAm]

I would like to say that the judges just look at the dancing and routines don't matter. But from what I have seen, choreographed routines usually belong to the winners. That being said, it still has to look led and it must looked like it is being danced. Most pros have choreographed routines, but they also dance with their best technique.

Routines should display your best dancing, not to be so complicated that you can't execute it on a crowded comp floor.

I do well with Smooth opened and closed with basic patterns, but I never seem to win open heats against the same people I beat in closed syllabus. Routines in this case may have been the difference. However, many with routines never even got called back to the final.

I stopped dancing close Rhythm a while back and do strictly open, I have routines and so does my fiercest competition. I saw the tapes and can see why I lost, and it wasn't because of who's routine was better, it was who danced better. But when the routines were new, I found that I could have been marked lower than a couple just doing more basic stuff because the routines were not comfortable yet and we just got disconnected at times.

I think open routines should display more flash, flurtation, extra movement or original variations. That is why it is open. Dance the patterns the way you want to dance them, add what you like to do. But you should appear as if the man is leading, the woman is following (not anticipating) and both are having a good time. By all means, don't forget technique.

I have yet to have a coach that says we should not have routine. And I cannot believe that couples would go out on a dance floor and do patterns and sequences they have not practiced. Even if it isn't a routine, it must still be practiced. All choreography is, is a sequence of patterns. I have had coachings from judges that recommend a sequence is used.

As for the 10 seconds, I don't think that is exactly true all the time. I saw judges seem to look at certain couples longer and I think it was to decide first and second. At that point they see if you are doing 2 or 3 patterns over and over or if you more patterns well. Showing a range can set you apart from the others too.

[Warren J. Dew]

To be fair, the explanation seems to have been clear to Vince, and Chris was able to figure it out. The judges probably didn't realize they were explaining to all of dance-forums!

[Vince A]

So I take it we are talking about something like a ronde chasse or slip chasse in cha cha? Where the basic would have been prefereable? I can buy that - I don't even think the alternate forms are even legal in the lowest levels.

I'd personally think of 'footwork' more in terms of technique - how you place the foot, what part of the foot, etc. But I could see someone calling these alternate figures footwork, since the first difference you notice is in the legs/feet.Well, yes . . . but . . . I'm trying to recall what I got dinged for . . . Remember - Newcomer - I know in the Waltz I got dinged several times for changing to the lady's footwork . . . and one certain (continuous) turn that we did simultaneously . . . I was dinged in WCS for "tapping" out the anchor instead of doing the anchor . . . and, although it was my fault, I was dinged for doing a move in ECS by using the wrong hand . . . they said it couldn't be done . . . well, I did it! Must have looked like hell though????

[Chris Stratton]

Well, yes . . . but . . . I'm trying to recall what I got dinged for . . . Remember - Newcomer - I know in the Waltz I got dinged several times for changing to the lady's footwork . . .

But but but Man's and Ladies footwork for a given action is generally identical in waltz - except in a few special cases like the forward part of the open reverse turn (silver american) where he will dance over the toe but she will usually roll through the foot like in an international feather finish.

Or do you mean you started dancing reverse roles figures, not all of which are legal or practical?


and one certain (continuous) turn that we did simultaneously . . . I was dinged in WCS for "tapping" out the anchor instead of doing the anchor . . . and, although it was my fault, I was dinged for doing a move in ECS by using the wrong hand . . . they said it couldn't be done . . . well, I did it! Must have looked like hell though????

These sound like syllabus violations not technique problems - though some of them sound rather iffy, unless the comp was restricted to a single well defined american syllabus. More precise communication would be welcome.

I have seen similar problems myself - DCDI for example, where at one point the invigilator grabbed a partner and demonstrated a half dozen things in smooth that are "not bronze", and a few similar issues for silver. Unfortunately, her message potentially created a lot of long-term confusion and puzzlement when people went home to their coaches, because those steps all are legal and quite common for those levels on popular syllabi accepted at most competitions - she would have been better off to say that they are "not bronze on the _____ syllabus specified by the written rules of this competiiton"

[cl5814]

Chris gives a great examples two posts up!!! Is that enough for you???

Footwork to me, means heel, toe placement. At least if you look at DVIDA bronze international style manual, that is what they teach you under footwork. So, the term, advanced footwork, was a bit confusing to me as social dancer. I mean, how advanced could a heel-toe footwork sequence get ? :) :) But yes, i get the idea from Chris' post.

[Vince A]

Sorry, I don't dance the "ballroom" circuit, and the term I used, is what we use! Thanks for your help on the issue . . .

[pygmalion]

Yup. I had a feeling there was a ballroom versus the rest of the world difference of terminology here. :?

[Vince A]

I assumed that was the culprit right in the beginning!!!!

[SDsalsaguy]

Yup, I was just going to jump in and point out that the common nomenclatures might be different from Vince's circuit...

(Edited after I'd seen that both he and jenn have already pointed that out)