How to connect arms to body in latin?

[xxtupikxx]

Perhaps the forum can settle a debate between my partner and i about how the leading/following arms are connected to the body for proper lead/follow.

Option 1. The lats (latissimus dorsi) is the only muscle that is strained. The stretching of the lat keeps the elbow far (but not too far) from the body. All other related muscles, such as those of the shoulder (Deltoid,pectorals,trapezius) and arm (biceps, triceps) are relaxed.

Option 2. The lats, tricets and deltoids work together to hold the shoulder and elbow joints in the place such that the arm does not get too close or two far from the body.

Option 3. Please contribute your own alternative :)

Thanks

[waltzgirl]

Well, I'm no latin expert, but I'd say a combination of 1 and 2. No muscle is "strained," but I try to think of the arm as originating in the lat with tone (not tension or locking) going from there all the way down the arm and hand. I try to keep the top of my shoulders relaxed. If you don't have some tone in your arms, there won't be any communication from your body to your partner, no matter what you do with your lats.

[fascination]

not at all saying that I know a thing BUT...my lats are toned my traps are relaxed and my elbow (if my arms aren't in some major shape) is near my body as if I was holding a tray...again, latin is not my forte...

[xxtupikxx]

a response from a latin person would be great :) thanks all

[DancerForLife]

xxtupixx -

Interesting topic... I am sure you will get several, equally valid responses to your question.

When I was working with Andrei (Gavriline), he taught to connect to your partner through your center. The lats, pecs etc were not even mentioned - in order for you to be able to dance fluid latin all your body parts need to be relaxed so they can move (the image used to explain that was that you're hanging by your neck, and everything under it is relaxed)

The way we used to set a basic latin hold up is as follows (noted as I remember, it was some time ago):
1. Gentleman assumes dance position (we started from a rumba basic, man stepping forward onto his left foot toward the lady), extends left arm / hand
2. Lady matches gent's position (walk up, extend leg etc), extends right arm / hand, places hand in man's
3. Connect - through the center. It was the lady's job to project her center to / through the connection toward the man - to find him; though without the man projecting his center toward her this cannot work. I.e. man provides the constant, lady seeks

Andrei always asked to connect to my back. And throughout the whole setup the arms etc were relaxed, and were approximately at waist level.

[Josh]

xxtupikxx, understand that no one can really answer this question "correctly." There is no right or wrong here. People connect differently. However, with that being said... ;-)

IF I had to pick one, I would pick Option 1, with the exception of the word "strained."

In good latin, one body is connected to another body, through the arms, without really using the arms. This is NOT easy to get, as we want to put effort into our dancing, and sometimes we focus our energy into the wrong places, and it affects our arms. But if you were to hook up some kind of machine to measure the usage of the actual arm muscles themselves (biceps, triceps, and the many other minor ones), in a good latin dancer you would find very little arm muscle activity.

What you're asking is not black and white. Are the deltoids involved? How about, "sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't." Should you consciously think about using the deltoids? Probably not. To be able to feel even the slightest hip movement in the other person's body with only a couple of fingers of each other touching, the arm must be free of "noise" and must be able to conduct and detect faint but clear signals.

Once we get into discussions about which particular muscles are working, then we enter gray areas where it's difficult to (1) determine for a certainty what's going on ("is my teres major working right now, and if so, how much?"--very difficult), (2) define how it's done, and (3) dance it in a reasonable amount of time without looking too mechanical.

An analysis can be done on anything, and we've had these discussions before, especially as they pertain to standard, but in the world of latin where we use words like "center", which is only a concept, not a well-defined group of muscles or even a well-defined place, it really is better for almost all dancers to try to experience the feeling of connecting first and foremost.

[chachabelle]

Bob and Julia have a great tape on connection in latin, can't remember the name and can't find it right now, but will look and post when I do.

[BasicsFirst]

No more posts required... JOSH has hit the nail on the head. That text is worth copying, pasting and archiving. Good one JOSH!

[Angel HI]

Often called a latin expert, (whether any longer justified or not) allow me to add this...

Dancerforlife's post and Josh's post is exactly what you are seeking. Read, reread, and study them. And forget such exegesis of the lats, delts, and traps, until you hit the gym.

[dTas]

how about this...

walk up to a wall 1/3 less than arms length away, place your hands out infront of you at "center level" (about belly button height). now... lean forward towards the wall, stop, hold, and slowly push away from the wall.

what muscles are you "straining"?

[xxtupikxx]

if i try what you suggest, i feel that i use my tricepts to straighten the elbow joint.