rule reminders for USA Dance syllabus & Pre-Teen dancers

[Laura]

Happy 2008 Everyone! Along with the new year, there is a new USA Dance Rulebook. I bring this up as a local USA Dance official who works on four or more competitions per year, and who has been called on to police costumes from time to time at local, regional, and even national events. I am speaking for myself here, though -- USA Dance did not ask me to make the following post, I am doing it under my own initiative as my chapter (NorCal) prepares for its first competition of 2008. Anyway, all competitors, regardless of age or how experienced they are in competitions, are required to follow the USA Dance rules. So, please take some time to review the 2008-2009 Rulebook at http://usadance.org/dancesport/

I didn't notice many rule changes, the biggest one that stood out to me is that "Novice" is now "in-line" between Gold and Pre-Champ. This means the old exception that allowed Syllabus dancers to add Novice as third event level no longer exists. Syllabus dancers can now only do Bronze-Silver, Silver-Gold, or Gold-Novice.

I am now going to comment on the most common rule violations that I've seen over the past few years. The most commonly violated rules are related to syllabus restrictions, and the dress code.

SYLLABUS RESTRICTIONS

* If you are dancing in a syllabus event (Bronze, Silver, Gold) you cannot use any steps higher than the level you are competing in.

* For Pre-Teen events that don't have a specific Bronze/Silver/Gold designation, ONLY GOLD-LEVEL AND LOWER steps are allowed. This rule about Pre-teen syllabus restrictions came into effect for USA Dance one year ago (and has been in effect for NDCA competitions for several years now), so coaches of Pre-teens have had a full year to adjust and should be providing their students with appropriate routines.

DRESS CODE

* The dress code is explained, with diagrams and illustrations, in section 3.10 of the Rulebook.

* The most common violations include -
short sleeved shirts on male syllabus and Pre-teen dancers (only long sleeved shirts are allowed, white only for Standard, black or white for other styles)
skirts too far below the knee on female Pre-teen dancers (skirts must be cut straight across, and be from just covering the knee to up to 4" above the knee)
illegal necklines on female Pre-teen dancers (the rulebook has diagrams of allowable necklines)
ties other than black or white on male syllabus and Pre-teen dancers (this is the most common adult syllabus male violation -- men, wear a solid-colored black or a white tie!)
dresses other than one solid color on female Pre-teen dancers (no multi-colored dresses are allowed on Pre-teen dancers)
dresses with light effects on female syllabus dancers (no glitter, rhinestones, sequins, mirrors, beading, metallic threads, or anything else that throws light is allowed)
floats on female syllabus dancers (a float is any material that flows behind the dancer when they are moving, including a long neck scarf)
hair decoration on female syllabus and Pre-teen dancers (this is the most common adult syllabus female violation -- no glitter, colored hairspray, or rhinestones/sequins etc. are allowed, Pre-teens may only wear a non-reflective ribbon or bow)
makeup on Pre-teen dancers (none allowed at all, children wearing makeup will be asked to wash their faces at comps I am costume police for!)
decoration jewelry" on Pre-teen dancers (you can wear your personal jewelry, such as simple earrings and necklaces that aren't part of a dance dress costume)

One of the most frequent questions I get regarding dancers who compete in several ages or levels is something along the lines of "but my kid is doing Pre-teen and Junior, what do I do?" The answer is to follow the rules for the most restrictive level you are competing in, and change your outfit/grooming between events if you have time.

Which leads to the next most frequent question, which goes something like "but I won't have time to put the makeup on/change before the Junior events, can't she dance Pre-teen with makeup/fancy costume on?" The solution to that one is either dance the less restrictive event without the makeup, or only enter the less restrictive event.

The final question in this common triad is "but it's not fair that they have to dance against the Juniors in their Pre-teen outfits!" My answer to that is "it's also not fair that some kids in Pre-teen follow the rules while others do not. If it's that much of a problem to show up in Junior without makeup or wearing a plain Pre-teen outfit, then either don't dance Junior or don't dance Pre-teen." (And similarly for adults who dance in both Gold and Novice and fret about the difference between what is allowed in Syllabus and what is allowed in Open.)

I know I sound strict, but in my local chapter at least our leniency in the past has led to dancers going to Regionals and/or Nationals thinking their outfits or dance routines were okay when they really were not, and then people were disappointed by a disqualification or lowering of placement (and blame our chapter for not being stricter in the first place). NorCal's Chapter-level events are meant to be fun, but our goal is to also educate our dancers about the rules to prepare them for Regional and National-level events. I don't know if other USA Dance chapters feel this way, but NorCal is taking this seriously.

Most of all, I understand that this all can be a bit overwhelming to new competitors, and so I'm glad to answer your questions (even though I can only speak for NorCal and our expectations for our events).

P.S. To any frightened newbies out there -- just do your absolute best, we know you are new and trying, and we will help you by pointing out your violations and answering questions about what to do. Take comfort in the fact that your newbie peers are going though the same learning process that you are.

[wooh]

Thanks for the post Laura, all very good advice. I especially like the "most common violations" section, because if I was going to compete in a syllabus event, I could so totally see my husband wearing a striped tie without thinking a thing about it, or if I had a junior age daughter, putting her in a skirt too long.
I'm also thankful that the only comp I have to worry about is the NON-sanctioned one that my USA Dance chapter hosts, so we can be pretty lenient on costume rules and such.
And no it doesn't sound like your being strict, it sounds like you're following the rules. Which after seeing people whine that rules were enforced at nationals, I'm sure they'll still whine there, but at least they can't say, "But THEY let me do it!!"

[wyllo]

Cool, thanks for the information!

While you're answering questions, I've got one for you: with regard to no nude colored fabrics in open, what does this mean? On the one hand, the rules say CnS (any color but nude) for dress color, but they also seem to allow nude fabrics on areas outside of the "intimacy areas." If my dress has nude fabric on the arms and stomach area (but not in any of the areas that are required to be opaque according to the diagram), am I o.k.?

My interpretation of the rules would say "yes" this is allowed, but it's pretty risky to be wrong!

[cornutt]

short sleeved shirts on male syllabus and Pre-teen dancers (only long sleeved shirts are allowed, white only for Standard, black or white for other styles)

Thanks for the summary, Laura. This was the only one that surprised me. Either the NDCA doesn't have a similar rule, or it's never enforced -- if there had been such a rule at the Vol State, most of the field in the adult rhythm dances would have been disqualified. :p Will have to remember this when we start doing USA Dance events.

[Laura]

if I was going to compete in a syllabus event, I could so totally see my husband wearing a striped tie without thinking a thing about it
Yep, this happens all the time in our Newcomer and Bronze events. We let the guys dance but tell them what the rule is, and tell them that if they do it at events we don't host we can't guarantee the officials there will let it slide. At the more advanced Syllabus levels -- well, by the end of this year no one who dances in a NorCal event will have an excuse, because we'll have told them all :)

I'm also thankful that the only comp I have to worry about is the NON-sanctioned one that my USA Dance chapter hosts, so we can be pretty lenient on costume rules and such.
We had that attitude for a while, but we also see a good number of repeat violations after warnings have been given, so as the person who most often ends up being the Costume Police I have decided to go hardcore whenever possible. Obviously a complete Newbie in a striped tie at their first competition ever is a different case than a Pre-teen whose parents have been warned before about multi-colored dresses...I'm not stupid...but then sometimes I think people assume I am. I have a good memory and a mind for trivia, so stuff sticks in my head! For instance, for a while there were few multi-colored Pre-teen dresses circulating locally whose wearers had been told several times that the dress cannot continue to be worn, yet the dress keeps turning up. In situations where continued warnings (some going on over several years) are ignored, then the only way people will follow the rules is if someone puts their foot down. So I'm going to put my foot down where appropriate. It starts now, NorCal dancers! I'm like Judge Judy, I've seen and heard every excuse at this point :)

Which after seeing people whine that rules were enforced at nationals, I'm sure they'll still whine there, but at least they can't say, "But THEY let me do it!!"
This is exactly what we are trying to prevent in the future. It's heartbreaking to know that something slipped by and that a couple got dinged for it later on. I want all the couples who come to our Chapter's events to learn the ropes so they can move forward with confidence in their competitive dance careers. I want "our" dancers to succeed, and not get hit with a deserved-but-somehow-unexpected DQ.

[Laura]

with regard to no nude colored fabrics in open, what does this mean? On the one hand, the rules say CnS (any color but nude) for dress color, but they also seem to allow nude fabrics on areas outside of the "intimacy areas." If my dress has nude fabric on the arms and stomach area (but not in any of the areas that are required to be opaque according to the diagram), am I o.k.?
Yes, although you would need to check with someone in the case of a Standard dress that is made to look like a two-piece dress due to the use of nude fabric, since two-piece dresses are not allowed in Standard.

[Laura]

Either the NDCA doesn't have a similar rule, or it's never enforced --
Possibly both :) I'm only talking about USA Dance events here. Also, within the NDCA, things are different for the Pro/Am (including Student/Student) events as compared to the regular Amateur events.

[wyllo]

Yes, although you would need to check with someone in the case of a Standard dress that is made to look like a two-piece dress due to the use of nude fabric, since two-piece dresses are not allowed in Standard.

Thanks! I've got an email in to one of the national folks, but DF is so much quicker. :)

[star_gazer]

Laura, I don't envy your job at all. Is there some way to get this info to parents... like in a registration packet? You would think the coaches would read this stuff but we all know that some don't and many parents don't know the NDCA from the USA Dance rules.

[Laura]

Is there some way to get this info to parents...
Yes! The USA Dance Rulebook (http://usadance.org/dancesport/) is conveniently located online.... :)

I figure if a parent or dancer can email me to enter a comp (and they do, or use O2Cm or other online entry system), then they also have the ability to look up the rules online. We have very few people locally who never use the internet, so by putting links from our web site to the rule book and printing the URL in our paper flyers, we feel we've done what we can short of reprinting the rulebook in the registration materials itself (which is impractical).

That said, I really wish USA Dance would go back to mailing out a Rulebook every year - or at least when someone joins up with USA Dance. I think it's stupid that a hardcopy is not put into every dancers' hands at least when they join the organization. This has long been a sore spot for me.

[Chris Stratton]

Hmm, so what would it cost to get a vendor booth at a Norcal comp and sell overpriced solid color ties?

;-)

[Laura]

Hahhahaha. Or how about tie rental service?

[NielsenE]

I think you should get one of these:
h t t p ://www.engadget.com/2008/01/16/meet-the-disintegrator-24-barrels-of-rubber-band-minigun-madnes/
for use by the costume inspector/invigilator to keep mad parents at bay.

[Laura]

Too unwieldly -- I need to have my hands free to hold up a print-out of the Rulebook and point to relevant sections. But I suppose I could have an assistant/bodyguard?

[reb]

This was really nice of you Laura to pro-actively post this information!

[White Chacha]

Hmm, so what would it cost to get a vendor booth at a Norcal comp and sell overpriced solid color ties?

;-)

You know, Chris, that gives me an idea for the next time I'm at a comp for which "you know who" is CoJ ;-)

[Chris Stratton]

I need to have my hands free to hold up a print-out of the Rulebook and point to relevant sections.

How about printing the top 10 rules on comp staff T-shirts?

That said I think a lot of the problem comes from many of the costume rules being outrageously ridiculous, counter productive, patronizing, and insulting to the point that I'm glad I'm neither competing in syllabus nor especially the parent of a young dancer. The syllabus rules at least amount to picky and boring, but the pre-teen rules are directly in opposition to creating clean lines and a sophisticated look, with the boys chopped in half and the girls skirts comically short.

[Joe]

Hahhahaha. Or how about tie rental service?
One year at MAC I showed up at registration wearing a black satin tie, not because I was dancing syllabus--I wasn't--but just because I wanted to wear a tie (street clothes). Daphna Locker grabbed my tie and asked if she could borrow it--apparently some syllabus dancer hadn't brought the proper tie.

[Laura]

Laura, I don't envy your job at all. Is there some way to get this info to parents... like in a registration packet? You would think the coaches would read this stuff but we all know that some don't and many parents don't know the NDCA from the USA Dance rules.

You've inspired me star_gazer. I can't and won't speak for all of USA Dance (at this point ;) ), but I did start up two announcement-only mailing lists for my local chapter (NorCal). One is for anyone who registers a competitor into a Pre-Teen event, and the other is for anyone is registers a competitor into an Adult Syllabus event. I wrote up a letter for each group, and mailed it out. I'm also going to print up a bunch of copies of the letters and hand them out to any newbies who register as "walk-ins" at the Chapter-level competition we are hosting this Saturday.

If anyone wants a copy of the letter(s), PM me *WITH YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS* and which letter(s) you want. If anyone would like to be added to either of the lists and receive other announcements/proclamations/dissertations I may write in the future -- even though you don't live anywhere near NorCal -- let me know and I'll add you.

[danceislove]

When they say:
"Adult Syllabus Levels are NOT PERMITTED to wear costumes."

What does that mean exactly? I haven't done a USA Dance competition yet...I knew you couldn't wear rhinestones, but does this mean you can't wear an unstoned dance dress? I'm confused. I know all of you probably know the answer to this :rolleyes:

[White Chacha]

You might visit the USA Dance website and download the rulebook. The costume rules are explained there.

[danceislove]

You might visit the USA Dance website and download the rulebook. The costume rules are explained there.

I did read it. I wasn't sure what constituted a "costume" though? Maybe I missed something...I will check.

[Indiana_Jay]

Here's a link to the latest version of the USA Dance attire rules (http://www.usadance.org/dancesport/forms-and-resources/rules-policies-and-bylaws/0yaowpubix/). You'll need Adobe Reader (which most computers already have) to read it.

[Indiana_Jay]

I did read it. I wasn't sure what constituted a "costume" though? Maybe I missed something...I will check.

Don't get hung up on the word "costume." Just make sure your attire complies with all the rules for the events you'll enter. There are many such rules.

[danceislove]

Don't get hung up on the word "costume." Just make sure your attire complies with all the rules for the events you'll enter. There are many such rules.

So it can be an actual "dance dress" as long as it complies with all of the rules? Which basically means no light effects and covers everything?

[Indiana_Jay]

So it can be an actual "dance dress" as long as it complies with all of the rules?

I haven't looked at the rules in several weeks, but I don't recall any definition of "dance dress" as something one cannot wear. There are, however, prohibitions against "light effects" as you say.

Which basically means no light effects and covers everything?

I consider in unhelpful, however, to attempt to summarize the many attire rules with statements like the one above. They tend to lead dancers into complacency with regard to careful study of the rules for themselves. For example, if you look closely at the rules, you'll see that coverage requirements are fairly specifically described and that "covers everything" might not be a helpful way to summarize them.

Which takes me back to my original advice (for all dancers who plan to dance in a USA Dance event): Read the rules for yourself and make sure that your dancewear complies with each individual specification and you should be fine.

[danceislove]

I haven't looked at the rules in several weeks, but I don't recall any definition of "dance dress" as something one cannot wear.

The use of the word "costume" is so misleading, it makes it sound like you can only wear a skirt and blouse or something :confused:

[Laura]

Are you sure you are looking at the USA Dance Dress Code rules for Adult Syllabus Dancers? Because I see nothing in that chart that says that you are only allowed to wear "a skirt and blouse or something" if you are competing in an Adult Syllabus event. You may have a dress, it can be any color except your skin color (or your skin color once you've tanned for the comp, if you tan). Other rules apply too, so make sure you check out the book directly to see what it says about what has to be covered, what constitutes light effects, and so on.

[danceislove]

Are you sure you are looking at the USA Dance Dress Code rules for Adult Syllabus Dancers? Because I see nothing in that chart that says that you are only allowed to wear "a skirt and blouse or something"

oh no no laura, I was only referring to the use of the word "costume." Sorry for the confusion. To me all of my dresses are "costumes" so when it says no costumes, to me it sounds like I can't wear them.

[Chris Stratton]

Indeed, the more complicated the rules get, the more it is that the only thing that will satisfy both the rules and basic needs of dancing is a costume specifically made to the dictates of those rules - especially in the pre-adult divisions with their detailed mandates for hem, neckline, etc.

[Laura]

oh no no laura, I was only referring to the use of the word "costume." Sorry for the confusion. To me all of my dresses are "costumes" so when it says no costumes, to me it sounds like I can't wear them.
Well, that's why there are rules -- to more clearly define what is and isn't a costume. You might think a dress with no decorations on it that meets the rules for Adult Syllabus dancers is a costume, someone else might just think of it as a stretchy dress. And really when talking about Syllabus dancers we should be using the term "dress code" and not "costume," to help avoid confusion.

[Indiana_Jay]

And really when talking about Syllabus dancers we should be using the term "dress code" and not "costume," to help avoid confusion.

That's sorta what I was trying to say!

[danceislove]

ok so just to be really sure i am clear on this whole "costume" thing... :rolleyes:
a dress like this, provided it follows all of the rules (which i think it does?) is still acceptable even though it is clearly not a simple dress?

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v308/27/108/587955447/n587955447_1098104_5036.jpg

[Laura]

Well, it certainly follows the letter of the rules, but it sure the heck looks like a costume to me. However, I've come across this situation before where women have turned up in dresses that were one rhinestone away from being illegal (e.g. an unstoned Standard dress that had the floats taken off of it)...and the outfits were deemed acceptable under the dress code.

I wonder what my friend who Chairs comps would say about this dress. Before the rules were worded the way they are now, she used to use "would you wear this some place other than a dance competition?" as a rule-of-thumb test. But now that we have explicit rules...I've gone through them all and don't see this violating any of them. And I guess if the entire outfit were black you could wear it to a nightclub, so it almost passes the "would you wear this elsewhere" rule of thumb test too.

[danceislove]

Well, it certainly follows the letter of the rules, but it sure the heck looks like a costume to me. However, I've come across this situation before where women have turned up in dresses that were one rhinestone away from being illegal (e.g. an unstoned Standard dress that had the floats taken off of it)...and the outfits were deemed acceptable under the dress code.

I wonder what my friend who Chairs comps would say about this dress. Before the rules were worded the way they are now, she used to use "would you wear this some place other than a dance competition?" as a rule-of-thumb test. But now that we have explicit rules...I've gone through them all and don't see this violating any of them. And I guess if the entire outfit were black you could wear it to a nightclub, so it almost passes the "would you wear this elsewhere" rule of thumb test too.

ok thanks laura! cool then i don't need to get another dress :D

[danceronice]

Indeed, the more complicated the rules get, the more it is that the only thing that will satisfy both the rules and basic needs of dancing is a costume specifically made to the dictates of those rules - especially in the pre-adult divisions with their detailed mandates for hem, neckline, etc.

And this is why I am less and less interested in ever doing USA Dance events. If I wanted to dance in what amount to street clothes until I get out of syllabus, I'd be a social dancer.

Why exactly do they have that rule, anyway? I can understand having costume restrictions for children, but why the rules for adults? There doesn't seem to be any practical reason for it. I'm trying to think of anything similar in my other two sports, skating or riding, but except in the hunter ring (which is very snotty and fashion-dominated, not so much rules except some Byzantine color rules stemming from fox-hunting) and the Katarina rule and the men-in-tights rule in skating, which are decency-related, everything is pretty much just safety-related. (In riding--heeled boots are for a reason. In skating, certain costume decorations can become a safety hazard.)

[Laura]

Not quite "street clothes," but rather social dance or nice practice wear. Many of those Chrisanne and Espen outfits discussed on that thread about expensive practice wear would work.

Anyway, it started simply enough as: "no costumes." The reasoning behind it was that they wanted people to focus on their dancing and not feel they had to go out and spend lots of money on a sparkly dress and tail suit. Not that a good skirt is cheap, but it's one thing to spend $300 on a skirt and top and another to spend $3000 on a decorated ballgown.

But the simple words "no costumes" sparked endless debate over what does and doesn't constitute a costume, so a very specific dress code was instituted to make it clear to people what was and wasn't allowed...but you can see it's not air-tight because we can still end up with dresses like the one discussed here being considered legal.

Also, it's not just USA Dance events that have this. If you ever intend to dance a regular (not student/student) Amateur Syllabus event in an NDCA comp, you can't wear a costume there either. The NDCA dress code rules aren't quite as lengthy and detailed as the USA Dance ones, but still you're going to end up dancing in what amounts to nice social dance or practice wear until you get out of Syllabus.

The only ways to dance in Syllabus events and wear a real costume are:

dance in Syllabus events for 35-and over (so Senior I, Senior II, Senior III)
dance in student/student events
dance in certain college competitions (check the rules for the specific competition first -- many don't allow costumes in bronze, some not in bronze or silver)
dance in Pro/Am events


I'm tired of the whole costume thing in two different ways.

Firstly, now that I'm dancing Open level in Pro/Am, I'm tired of having to play "keep up" with costumes. Dresses are so expensive, that one in my icon cost me $3200 and that was in 2002. I'd hate to know what it would cost today. I can make my own, but I'm now spending so much time training for competition that I don't really have the time or energy. I wish I didn't have to wear a costume, I'd just whip up a plain flattering dress and go with it. But all the time and money dealing with the rhinestones...I just can't deal with it any more. I do a competition a month and so I really should have three dresses a year, I could get by with two, and right now I'm getting by on one which is gorgeous but I'm getting tired of. I'm stuck wearing it though until I can either buy or make something that looks as good. Frankly, I'd rather spend the time and money getting more coaching.

Secondly, it seems that no matter what anyone does with the dress code, it causes complaints and hoopla. As someone who helps to organize and run competitions, I'm feeling worn out about the whole thing. One the one hand I like the dress code rules because at least it protects the lower-level dancers from the kind of things I'm experiencing that I described above. On the other hand, I'm tired of dealing with the whole thing.

Wow, I just found this comment on the expensive practice wear thread and thought I'd repost it here because it is so fitting:

TO be honest.. I wish my partner would just wear her practicewear at comps.. It looks so simple.. but sooo goood... wish I have to guts to just tell her.. " stones and diamantes are not gonna make our hip movements look any better!" I dream one day, we would win a comp because of the attention we get from our dancing instead of what she wears... sigh...

[danceronice]

Well, I like pro-am because I get a WAY better lead that way anyway. But half the fun for me is dressing up. I spend truly absurd amounts of time at competitions trying on dresses I don't even NEED (at my level I really don't need multiple dresses and frankly even if I did need to swap out for Rhythm, I could get away with the off-the-rack from the Mall I used to use as the alternate for now.) But I know I'm going to end up getting more.

I suppose it helps that I don't have any sort of family commitments I have to worry about, I don't have a mortgage or car payments, and I grew up with horseback riding where dropping massive amounts of money even if you're NOT competing is just a given. At least if I blow money on a dress I don't have to feed it or take it to the vet, and there's no serious emotional wrench if I sell it. Just a dress. (And having done my own stoning I'll pay the extra to have someone else do it. Shoes, okay, that I can do, but a whole dress? Not again.)

I also find it dull as a spectator. I've only gone to one college comp (as a vendor's assistant, not a competitor) and the atmosphere just wasn't for me. It just looks like you're not trying--I'm not saying everything needs 40 gross of stones (I've seen Julia and Igor compete where Julia had just a basic dance dress, no embellishments, though that was "You want to see topline? Have a good look, nothing to hide here!") but watching people in cocktail clothes is kind of meh. It would be like letting someone show hunters in a polo shirt and half-chaps. Just not on. Even the teeny kids in lead line wear hunt coats.

[TAK]

As a college competitor, I like that I wasn't expected to wear a costume through the syllabus levels. Gave me time to get comfortable with tanning, makeup (without light effects), etc before having to worry about the more expensive aspects of presenting myself.

Then again, I had to wear a school uniform in middle and high school and I was happy for that too, so maybe I'm just incapable of choosing my own wardrobe :D

[and123]

I've only gone to one college comp (as a vendor's assistant, not a competitor) and the atmosphere just wasn't for me. It just looks like you're not trying--I'm not saying everything needs 40 gross of stones (I've seen Julia and Igor compete where Julia had just a basic dance dress, no embellishments, though that was "You want to see topline? Have a good look, nothing to hide here!") but watching people in cocktail clothes is kind of meh.

Collegiate comps are a completely different beast than Pro-Am. It's really about the dancing and the learning experience, not the costumage. In fact, many comps prohibit costumes until higher syllabus levels. The vast majority of collegiate dancers cannot afford the costumes you are describing, nor should they be expected to. Some teams have donated costumes that can be rented or borrowed by team members, but many do not. And remember that these are Am-Am couples, often coached in a group setting or by peers, so few have the luxury of one-on-one privates with a Pro, and some have only been dancing for a few months. The mental focus in such a partnership, particularly at the lower levels, is very VERY different than what you feel at a Pro-Am comp. If you want to play with pretty costumes and not deal with complicated partnership issues, then you are right - you are better off dancing Pro-Am.

Sorry for the hijack.

[Zhena]

Well, the whole costume thing is one (of many) reasons why DH and I don't compete. Frankly, I think many of them are downright unattractive. I remember a post from way back where someone said she didn't "get" it at first, but then started to love it. I haven't reached that cross-over point, and I doubt I ever will. Yes, I have seen a few dresses I like, but they tend to resemble nice cocktail/evening dresses.

Just my opinion ....

By the way, the MAJOR reason we don't compete is I hate to be sitting down when music is playing ... and a whole day of danceable music with 3 minutes of actual dancing is not much fun.

[Laura]

Collegiate comps are a completely different beast than Pro-Am.
I've done both, and I must say that both are really interesting and fun in their own way, and can say constructive things about both. This could actually be an interesting thread if someone wants to start it :)

[Laura]

Yes, I have seen a few dresses I like, but they tend to resemble nice cocktail/evening dresses.
That's definitely how I feel when it comes to Latin & Rhythm costumes! For Standard/Smooth I'm okay with a bit more silliness...but I've seen some god-awful Standard/Smooth costumes too.

[tanya_the_dancer]

As a college competitor, I like that I wasn't expected to wear a costume through the syllabus levels. Gave me time to get comfortable with tanning, makeup (without light effects), etc before having to worry about the more expensive aspects of presenting myself.

Then again, I had to wear a school uniform in middle and high school and I was happy for that too, so maybe I'm just incapable of choosing my own wardrobe :D

During my last year of school, our school switched from using uniforms to having a dress code. The dress code for girls was dark-colored skirt and light-colored top + some other restrictions (like no minis). My friend made a bet (and won it) that she will wear an outfit which will follow the dress code rules to the letter but still get reprimanded for it.

I guess you can do same thing with syllabus costumes. You can have an outfit which follows the rules to a T, but still you can't really wear it to a party. I have an unstoned smooth/standard dress I am trying to sell, it is simple and while I myself wouldn't compete in it, since I do pro-am and it would look out of place there, I don't think I would really want to wear it anywhere besides an event which involves some sort of dancing.

[danceronice]

If someone could start a thread about collegiate, I'd be interested. I was surprised when I heard of it that you can enter college events if you're not in college. In IHSA you could only ride for a team if you were actively enrolled at the university you rode for. (Of course it's also kinda a team event--you got individual ribbons for classes, but there was an overall point total. I rode low-level eq classes but I was there to rack up points for the team award, basically.)

[Standarddancer]

I can only say I feel lucky I dance open level, feel bad for syllabus dancers, poor syllabus ladies can't even use floats, glitters, rhinestones? I love floats, glitters, oh they missed so much fun:( If I'm syllabus, I would use this as "incentive" to work harder to improve to open level asap, the sooner I get out of syllabus, the sooner I can wear dresses with floats and have fun:)

[and123]

A collegiate comp thread would be interesting.... I hesitate to start one now though since not everyone is back on campus yet. I too didn't realize that any amateur could compete at collegiate comps, and did not have to belong to a team (student/alum/affiliate or otherwise). I would have done it a lot sooner had I known that. I was still in college at the time, but was not a member of its team, such as it was.

While I agree that sparklies and floaties can be incentive to move up in the ranks, at the same time they can look utterly ridiculous on a newbie or Bronzer who dances badly. From what I have observed over the years, it's the dancers in simple attire who dance cleanly and consistently who make finals.

[Standarddancer]

I think these set of dress rules help these practice wear companies such as Chrisanne and Espen sell their expensive practice wear cost at least $200 each since most of these practice wears are "legal";) newbies want to look nice for comps and these nicely designed outfits are very classy and without stones.

now I know why so many overpriced practice wear online;)

[Terpsichorean Clod]

By the way, the MAJOR reason we don't compete is I hate to be sitting down when music is playing ... and a whole day of danceable music with 3 minutes of actual dancing is not much fun.
Solution: dance a bajillion heats like fascination. Then you'll be happy to have 3 minutes to sit down. ;)

[Laura]

I too didn't realize that any amateur could compete at collegiate comps, and did not have to belong to a team (student/alum/affiliate or otherwise).
Since each college comp can make its own rules, it's always good to check, but every college comp that I've come into contact with allows and encourages outside couples to participate.

While I agree that sparklies and floaties can be incentive to move up in the ranks, at the same time they can look utterly ridiculous on a newbie or Bronzer who dances badly.
I totally agree. It is very possible to be wearing "too much dress" for one's dancing.

[TAK]

Yes, I forgot to mention that knowing I'll be able to wear costumes in the open levels has been incentive to move upward, too. :)

I think these set of dress rules help these practice wear companies such as Chrisanne and Espen sell their expensive practice wear cost at least $200 each since most of these practice wears are "legal";) newbies want to look nice for comps and these nicely designed outfits are very classy and without stones.

Well, it depends on the newbie and the college team...my experience is that people don't usually invest in practicewear until gold level or MAYBE silver. For bronze Latin followers, in particular, some teams (especially larger teams--I can think of one in this area ;)) have a whole bank of simple brightly-colored dresses with short skirts...the result being that in a lot of bronze heats, half of the couples are dressed exactly the same and doing the same choreography, like a formation team...it can get a little silly :p

[kathyt cupcake]

Yes, I forgot to mention that knowing I'll be able to wear costumes in the open levels has been incentive to move upward, too. :)

Well, it depends on the newbie and the college team...my experience is that people don't usually invest in practicewear until gold level or MAYBE silver. For bronze Latin followers, in particular, some teams (especially larger teams--I can think of one in this area ;)) have a whole bank of simple brightly-colored dresses with short skirts...the result being that in a lot of bronze heats, half of the couples are dressed exactly the same and doing the same choreography, like a formation team...it can get a little silly :p


I agree that most of the collegiate teams that I've seen (mid NE coast) don't bother to spend $ on practicewear and our team is GUILTY of dressing ppl similarly for comps (we have a set of red S/S skirts), especially where costumes aren't allowed. We tell our couples not to stand next to each other during heats but they have to suck it up if they all make it to finals =P

For collegiate comps where costumes are not allowed, for latin/rhythm there's a lot of Forever21 and cocktail dresses on the floor, with a teenytiny sprinkling of followers who have fringe dresses or unstoned latin style dresses.

[Standarddancer]

Yes, I forgot to mention that knowing I'll be able to wear costumes in the open levels has been incentive to move upward, too. :)



Well, it depends on the newbie and the college team...my experience is that people don't usually invest in practicewear until gold level or MAYBE silver. For bronze Latin followers, in particular, some teams (especially larger teams--I can think of one in this area ;)) have a whole bank of simple brightly-colored dresses with short skirts...the result being that in a lot of bronze heats, half of the couples are dressed exactly the same and doing the same choreography, like a formation team...it can get a little silly

oh that's not good to dress exactly the same as your competitors:( well if the newbies have limited financial resource, guess that's the way to go, but nice practice wear are like a few hundred bucks, probably still affortable for a students who work part-time and living at home:) if costumes not allowed for syllabus, then I think it's worthy the $$$ for at least one set of nice practice outfit.

[Laura]

but nice practice wear are like a few hundred bucks, probably still affortable for a students who work part-time and living at home:)
Not all college students live at home...I know that when I was in college I could have never afforded anything that expensive. Heck, I've given (slightly) used dance shoes to college students who were delighted to have them because even buying shoes really can stretch a student's budget.

[wooh]

Not all college students live at home...I know that when I was in college I could have never afforded anything that expensive. Heck, I've given (slightly) used dance shoes to college students who were delighted to have them because even buying shoes really can stretch a student's budget.

When I was in college, I was living on my own and working full time at a very low paying job. So yeah, a couple hundred on a practice outfit? No way!

[latingal]

Heck, I've given (slightly) used dance shoes to college students who were delighted to have them because even buying shoes really can stretch a student's budget

Yeah, I've seen some of the shoes the college students are trying to wear as long as possible due to budget concerns....they're pretty much taped together!

[Chiron]

Heck, I've given (slightly) used dance shoes to college students who were delighted to have them because even buying shoes really can stretch a student's budget.

Free shoes? That sounds almost as good as free food! (Ok it sounds better but I don't want to admit I'm that addicted to dancing)