Shoot me now.

[nucat78]

I think I became a BR Jerk tonight.

I was dancing a foxtrot with a young lady who asked me if I could count out the steps for her. I did and she picked it up quite quickly.

Assuming she was a newbie, when I danced a waltz and a rumba with her later I commented on how well she was doing. She didn't look pleased.

She's been taking lessons off and on for 6 years. :shock:

You'd think after all the threads on here, I'd have learned to keep my mouth shut. Well, wouldn't be the first time I made a complete *ss of myself.

sophos moros - wise fool...

[samina]

no worries, nucat... doesn't sound like a faux pas. i mean, you didn't *know* she'd taken lessons so long. completely understandable. don't sweat it another minute. :)

[latingal]

nucat, can't blame you for making that assumption, it would seem pretty natural. I'd just chalk it up to experience for the next dancer who makes you count out loud (which to me is a bit of an odd request in and of itself!).

But I do like the idea of having a thread to share your "oh just shoot me now" experiences! Anybody?

[latingal]

actually, I should ask YOU nucat if it's okay to turn this thread into such a thing!

[elisedance]

Could we have it be more than ballroom - I have a long list :oops:

[White Chacha]

When I saw the subject of the thread, all I could think of was Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck ;-)

[contracheck]

I think I became a BR Jerk tonight.

You'd think after all the threads on here, I'd have learned to keep my mouth shut. Well, wouldn't be the first time I made a complete *ss of myself. sophos moros - wise fool...

No, no, it's wise not to learn keeping mouth shut; dancing in silence, especially with a stranger, is like dancing with a dead body. It creates unnecessary uneasiness and tension. Instead, just say, "You have a dancer's dream body." It disarms the stranger lady right away making her like an old frined; these simple words have never failed me. Dancing is an art of communication.

[fascination]

I think I became a BR Jerk tonight.

I was dancing a foxtrot with a young lady who asked me if I could count out the steps for her. I did and she picked it up quite quickly.

Assuming she was a newbie, when I danced a waltz and a rumba with her later I commented on how well she was doing. She didn't look pleased.

She's been taking lessons off and on for 6 years. :shock:

You'd think after all the threads on here, I'd have learned to keep my mouth shut. Well, wouldn't be the first time I made a complete *ss of myself.

sophos moros - wise fool...jerks don't feel remorse...hug...and if she doesn't forgive you...SHE is a jerk

[fascination]

No, no, it's wise not to learn keeping mouth shut; dancing in silence, especially with a stranger, is like dancing with a dead body. It creates unnecessary uneasiness and tension. Instead, just say, "You have a dancer's dream body." It disarms the stranger lady right away making her like an old frined; these simple words have never failed me. Dancing is an art of communication.
that statement would CREEP me out...

[etp777]

Heh, that's one I'd just think, and be too shy to ever say. I don't have the panache (to steal a word from another thread) to pull it off and keep it from being creepy. :)

[elisedance]

well, maybe not that particular line but something a bit more benign? 'This is a nice (rhumba)(waltz)...' is non-committal and breaks the ice - it indicates you are interested in communication which, surely, is a very large part of what dance is about.

The other thing you could have done is simply to say 'I don't believe I did that! After all my experience with social dancing' its both honest and gets the message accross that you really are concerned about her dance experience. Personally, I am always trying to assess whether the lead is dancing with me first and any audicence second or the other way round.....

[contracheck]

that statement would CREEP me out...

I guess that it does not work for all of the people all of the time.

[danceronice]

I don't know--I don't mind talking, but unless I already know you, I don't really want a conversation. Especially because chances are I can't hear you clearly at all over the music!

And I've gotten a little miffed at some guys I dance with (had to bite my tongue on a "do you know how to do a box turn" from a guy who really couldn't lead any waltz at all by saying, "Sure, if it's lead properly.") But most of the time I grin and bear it, as most guys mean well, and the ones that don't I just file under "don't dance with them if possible." But then I'll dance with them anyway.

[tanya_the_dancer]

No, no, it's wise not to learn keeping mouth shut; dancing in silence, especially with a stranger, is like dancing with a dead body. It creates unnecessary uneasiness and tension. Instead, just say, "You have a dancer's dream body." It disarms the stranger lady right away making her like an old frined; these simple words have never failed me. Dancing is an art of communication.

That statement would creep me out too. I think it is better to make a more neutral comment i.e. about the music such as "I love this song".

[etp777]

Besides, your go-to starting statement is supposed to be "You know, you have the most beautiful eyes..." :D

[rjcbear]

Besides, your go-to starting statement is supposed to be "You know, you have the most beautiful eyes..." :D

Etp, you ladies men you, how many times have you use that statement?

[etp777]

A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell. ;)

[wooh]

that statement would CREEP me out...

Yikes!! Totally agree!

[wooh]

I don't have the panache (to steal a word from another thread) to pull it off and keep it from being creepy. :)

I can't imagine ANYONE saying it without it coming off creepy. (Sorry CC!)

[etp777]

Heh.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Besides, your go-to starting statement is supposed to be "You know, you have the most beautiful eyes..." :D

You know, I would be careful with that one too. If I were dancing with a person I haven't met before and he said anything that would make me think he is hitting on me (the above two statements - about the body and about the eyes - fit the bill), I would avoid him in the future no matter how good the dance was.

[reb]

I don't know--I don't mind talking, but unless I already know you, I don't really want a conversation. Especially because chances are I can't hear you clearly at all over the music!

And I've gotten a little miffed at some guys I dance with (had to bite my tongue on a "do you know how to do a box turn" from a guy who really couldn't lead any waltz at all by saying, "Sure, if it's lead properly.") But most of the time I grin and bear it, as most guys mean well, and the ones that don't I just file under "don't dance with them if possible." But then I'll dance with them anyway.
yeah - let the dance be the conversation.

[etp777]

No worries on my part TtD. I'm WAY too shy to say anything that might even remotely come off as flirting. if I talk with someone, which I generally do with someone new, talk about dancing.

Course, rules change somewhat if I've been drinking, but don't drink and dance ballroom (or no more than a glass or two of wine when it's dancing and dinner). That's other dancing out at the clubs. BUt I deny all those times too. :)

[nucat78]

You know, I would be careful with that one too. If I were dancing with a person I haven't met before and he said anything that would make me think he is hitting on me (the above two statements - about the body and about the eyes - fit the bill), I would avoid him in the future no matter how good the dance was.

Well, you DO have a nice nape of the neck.:raisebro: :p:D

(I'm fine if people want to relate their faux pas. The more the merrier!)

[contracheck]

That statement would creep me out too. I think it is better to make a more neutral comment i.e. about the music such as "I love this song".

All I want to do with my statement is to disarm her, to tell her relax I am a friend and not a critique.

[wooh]

All I want to do with my statement is to disarm her, to tell her relax I am a friend and not a critique.

Yeah, but with that phrase, you tell me to tense up because you are a stalker.

[jwlinson]

...so if she's been dancing for 6 years surely she knows how to listen for the music count. We learned that back in music class in elementary school...

[jennyisdancing]

Yeah, but with that phrase, you tell me to tense up because you are a stalker.

ITA. I realize telling someone they have a 'dream body' is a compliment - but it's not an appropriate one. If the purpose of the compliment is to put them at ease, say nice things about their dancing, not their physical attributes.

Tell her things like: she has wonderful rhythm, is light on her feet, has graceful arm movements, etc. A compliment about her outfit is probably okay if it's not too personal e.g. "that's a lovely dress" not "you have a hot dancer's body in that dress" (even if that's what you're really thinking). :p

[contracheck]

Yeah, but with that phrase, you tell me to tense up because you are a stalker.

I made a harmless comment and I am now a serial killer stalker.

[reb]

I made a harmless comment and I am now a serial killer stalker.
:doh:and here I thought they were only worried about you being a plain ole' everyday stalker

maybe you could break the ice and ease their worries at the same time by telling them, "this may sound creepy, but I am not a serial killer stalker . . . "

[danceronice]

Sorry, contracheck, but count me with all the other females where statements about my body (or eyes/face/hair) tells me you're at the very best flirting clumsily and at worst, hitting on me. If I know you really well and know it's just playing, that might be one thing. But if you're just someone at a social dance, that's creepy.

[fascination]

look cc, feel the love...at least we cared enough to warn you...way I see it, your chances just went up, maybe not with DFers...but overall...

[fascination]

Sorry, contracheck, but count me with all the other females where statements about my body (or eyes/face/hair) tells me you're at the very best flirting clumsily and at worst, hitting on me. If I know you really well and know it's just playing, that might be one thing. But if you're just someone at a social dance, that's creepy.
yea, like I once said...he hates it when I tell this story, BUT...i knew I was safe with pro when I went to a studio party all hottied up in this orange halter top and blue and orange skirt and his comment was "cool, bears colors!!!"...( i'm thinking "dude, I've got cleavage going on and you are thinking of a football team?":rolleyes:)

[Izzy20]

yea, like I once said...he hates it when I tell this story, BUT...i knew I was safe with pro when I went to a studio party all hottied up in this orange halter top and blue and orange skirt and his comment was "cool, bears colors!!!"...( i'm thinking "dude, I've got cleavage going on and you are thinking of a football team?":rolleyes:)


haha. that made me laugh because it is very typical. ;)

[reb]

we're, uh, easily distracted in more than one way . . .

[contracheck]

You and I know well that these ladies who have expressed negative opinions on my comment are not telling the truth. The most likely scenario of the lady, whose body I complimented, tat will happen when she arrives her home is that she will look herself on the mirror and say to herself, "that stranger guy was correct, my figure is not really too bad." She will buy new dress, put on better make-up, and return to the dance floor. I blew fresh air into her otherwise dull life and her life is revived. I helped someone's life dearly without spending a penny.

[nucat78]

yea, like I once said...he hates it when I tell this story, BUT...i knew I was safe with pro when I went to a studio party all hottied up in this orange halter top and blue and orange skirt and his comment was "cool, bears colors!!!"...( i'm thinking "dude, I've got cleavage going on and you are thinking of a football team?":rolleyes:)

Hmmm, cleavage or football, cleavage or football, cleavage or football? Dang! Now I'm ALL confused! :confused:

[White Chacha]

All I want to do with my statement is to disarm her, to tell her relax I am a friend and not a critique.

So I think a nice comment on something she's wearing would be more apropos and less "creepy". Like, "that's a pretty {blouse skirt dress bow (in hair)} you've got on" would break the ice.

[contracheck]

Hmmm, cleavage or football, cleavage or football, cleavage or football? Dang! Now I'm ALL confused! :confused:

I am confused about why you're confused. A high proportion of instructors are gays in a statistically significant way, so she could not ignite sparks into his life with the plunging neckline and flaming orange dress. She might have been safe (I don't know what "safe" means in this case), but there was no response excpt for this football thing. She went to a wrong man. My carefully chosen words spark and lift women's spirit, and in some severely depressed cases, potentially save their lives. I am thoroughly confused about all these "creepy" things.

[cornutt]

ITA. I realize telling someone they have a 'dream body' is a compliment - but it's not an appropriate one. If the purpose of the compliment is to put them at ease, say nice things about their dancing, not their physical attributes.


CC, I don't know how old you are. There was a time and a place, in the past, where you could compliment a woman in such manner, and she would take it for what it was -- a compliment, no more, no less. Unfortunately, we don't live in that time and place today. Most women today are pretty much taught from birth that, in effect, men are guilty until proven innocent. That sucks for us guys, but we don't have any choice about the matter; we just have to deal with it. Thus, when you compliment a woman who doesn't know you, you have to use a compliment that can't possibly be interpreted in any way other than innocently.

When I dance with a woman that I don't know and haven't danced with before, if I talk at all, I'll compliment her on her dancing. (If she really is a beginner, she probably won't be able to dance and converse at the same time -- I certainly couldn't when I was a beginner!) Once she's gotten to know me some, I'll know how to compliment her. There are women who simply cannot accept an appeaerance compliment from a man at all; they will always jump to the worst possible conclusion.

[cornutt]

Hmmm, cleavage or football, cleavage or football, cleavage or football? Dang! Now I'm ALL confused! :confused:

Hence the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders: both at once! ;)

[wooh]

:doh:and here I thought they were only worried about you being a plain ole' everyday stalker

maybe you could break the ice and ease their worries at the same time by telling them, "this may sound creepy, but I am not a serial killer stalker . . . "

THAT would make me laugh!

[danceronice]

Comment on my body and 1. I won't believe you (I have a distorted body image and don't believe anyone) and 2. I will assume you're making a pass. Unless you're REALLY an elder gentleman and not a creepy one, in which case I'll take it as a polite flirt. Even if you are in fact quite hot, I am going to be suspicious of a stranger saying something like that. If I do know you, I won't find it creepy, just an attempt to build my ego (that won't work but would be taken in the spirit in which it was intended.)

[GJB]

Hmmm, cleavage or football, cleavage or football, cleavage or football? Dang! Now I'm ALL confused! :confused:

The heck with football : )

[samina]

tch! this thread is a riot...

contracheck, i appreciate your old-school sentiment, but if you said that comment to me the only thing i'd think is "this guy's a fool"... wouldn't be creeped out, but i'd know you were just plain silly, lol.

[Peaches]

Was going to reply...have censored myself and thought better of it. Reply was too vehement and not at all nice. My dander has definitely been gotten up.

[fascination]

You and I know well that these ladies who have expressed negative opinions on my comment are not telling the truth. The most likely scenario of the lady, whose body I complimented, tat will happen when she arrives her home is that she will look herself on the mirror and say to herself, "that stranger guy was correct, my figure is not really too bad." She will buy new dress, put on better make-up, and return to the dance floor. I blew fresh air into her otherwise dull life and her life is revived. I helped someone's life dearly without spending a penny.nooooo...more likely... you made here extremely uncomfortable the entire time b/c she was thinking that you were thinking lewd thoughts about her the entire dance...dull or not...bad body image or not...the comment doesn't sound like a compliment but rather a come-on

[fascination]

and I am a lot of things cc but not a liar

[fascination]

I am confused about why you're confused. A high proportion of instructors are gays in a statistically significant way, so she could not ignite sparks into his life with the plunging neckline and flaming orange dress. She might have been safe (I don't know what "safe" means in this case), but there was no response excpt for this football thing. She went to a wrong man. My carefully chosen words spark and lift women's spirit, and in some severely depressed cases, potentially save their lives. I am thoroughly confused about all these "creepy" things.
pro is hetero:rolleyes:

[fascination]

cornutt...don't get me wrong a guy can tell me I look lovely or comment on my appearance in general, but a stranger who makes a comment as extreme as that about my body in it's totality has, imo, has overstepped his bounds regardless of the era

[Izzy20]

I haven't said anything towards that comment but I agree with what the other women said. It would creep me out. If I found it creepy enough I might stop the dance. I know it's extreme but that comment would creep me out. Complimenting my eyes is more ok. I might think they're just using a "line" but I would at least be able to laugh it off. But a comment about my body would make me feel like an object. It wouldn't make me want to be around the guy. Unless he was a very very good friend and just saying something like that as a joke.

If I got comments like that too much I might change dance parties.

I want to be respected by a guy not "appraised"

[White Chacha]

It's a tough call though, isn't it? I mean we'd all (guy or gal) like to feel attractive to the desired sex. But these days it's become more and more taboo to express attraction.

On the other hand, you look at some of the behavior portrayed by good ole Fred Astaire in those movies of his, and try to transplant it to now, and they'd be slapping rstraining orders on him right and left.

A time and a place for everything?

[Izzy20]

I agree with that... but there's a difference in telling someone their pretty and talking about their body. I guess it gets down to personal preference but if you don't know someone it's probably safer to say something more general.

I need to watch said movies. :oops:

[contracheck]

tch! this thread is a riot...

contracheck, i appreciate your old-school sentiment, but if you said that comment to me the only thing i'd think is "this guy's a fool"... wouldn't be creeped out, but i'd know you were just plain silly, lol.

I am facing a total capitulation, but not a single soul is stepping to my side. What kind of world is this we are living in?

[samina]

if you meant it, it's another thing... when it's a line... c'mon, ya gotta admit, cc...

[Josh]

just say, "You have a dancer's dream body." It disarms the stranger lady right away making her like an old frined

She will buy new dress, put on better make-up, and return to the dance floor. I blew fresh air into her otherwise dull life and her life is revived. I helped someone's life dearly without spending a penny.

Sorry bro, but I'd say the VAST majority will feel otherwise. I can't write VAST in big enough letters to express how few women will really feel the way you're thinking they will.

To your credit CC, words spoken a certain harmless way may not make a woman feel weirded out, but, and excuse my straightforwardness here, I think you're overestimating the value of these words and underestimating the quality of life ("dull life" as you said) of some of these women. You "helped someone's life dearly" and "revived her life"??

To disarm a nervous woman, smile at her, be sincere, and make her laugh (EDIT: make her laugh, but don't be a dweeb).

[wooh]

cornutt...don't get me wrong a guy can tell me I look lovely or comment on my appearance in general, but a stranger who makes a comment as extreme as that about my body in it's totality has, imo, has overstepped his bounds regardless of the era

Yep, totally agree. I can understand where men would feel "guilty until proven innocent," and I'm not saying some women don't feel that way about men. But I think a healthy sense of caution is in order. I won't assume every guy is a stalker, but say something about my "dancer's dream body" and I'm going to start leaning in that direction.:)

[Izzy20]

I agree with Josh. If I'm nervous and someone makes me laugh usually I will become unnervous. Or at least less nervous. Somehow knowing someone doesn't take something so seriously helps. It would make me feel like if I mess up he'll be understanding. Smiling helps too.

[samina]

I want to be respected by a guy not "appraised"

me on the other hand... appraise away :cool:

crikey, i got enuf respect on my hands, lol...

[tanya_the_dancer]

You and I know well that these ladies who have expressed negative opinions on my comment are not telling the truth. The most likely scenario of the lady, whose body I complimented, tat will happen when she arrives her home is that she will look herself on the mirror and say to herself, "that stranger guy was correct, my figure is not really too bad." She will buy new dress, put on better make-up, and return to the dance floor. I blew fresh air into her otherwise dull life and her life is revived. I helped someone's life dearly without spending a penny.

As a woman, I'm having trouble understanding your logic. I just cannot imagine any woman not having a negative reaction to such loaded compliment from a stranger. As a matter of fact, if a lot of guys took this advice and used it on her enough, it might even turn her away from dancing, because she would think it attracts weirdos.

[samina]

mebbe there's a culture clash at work here... cc's comment wouldn't be surprising in the culture of my upbringing, while it sure wouldn't fit in the culture i currently inhabit.

[contracheck]

me on the other hand... appraise away :cool:

crikey, i got enuf respect on my hands, lol...

You merciless people have just stoned me to death in a public plaza, silencing me forever.

[samina]

and you use my quote to exemplify that? i think i'm on the understanding side, as i'd take no offense...

[rjcbear]

This line was used on me by a lady at a social dance.

She came and asked my what dance I would do the song it was playing. So I reply with the dance. Then she said well then lets do it.

I think that was the best approach. You are asking for the opinion and then using the opinion to dance. Best Ice breaker use on me. Before I forget it she is a dance teacher too.

[skwiggy]

I think I became a BR Jerk tonight.

I was dancing a foxtrot with a young lady who asked me if I could count out the steps for her. I did and she picked it up quite quickly.

Assuming she was a newbie, when I danced a waltz and a rumba with her later I commented on how well she was doing. She didn't look pleased.

She's been taking lessons off and on for 6 years. :shock:

You'd think after all the threads on here, I'd have learned to keep my mouth shut. Well, wouldn't be the first time I made a complete *ss of myself.

sophos moros - wise fool...

I'm going to go out on a limb here... is it possible that she was asking you to count because she felt you weren't dancing to the music? Perhaps she was trying to correct you in a way that she thought would be polite (although I don't personally find it polite, but some people might), and was then offended that you took that to mean that she was the one who was inexperienced?

Obviously I don't have enough details on the situation to know for sure, but this would certainly explain both the question and the look of displeasure.

And I agree with whoever posted that jerks don't feel remorse. I think it was fascination? So I think you have nothing to worry about in that regard. :)

[skwiggy]

No, no, it's wise not to learn keeping mouth shut; dancing in silence, especially with a stranger, is like dancing with a dead body. It creates unnecessary uneasiness and tension. Instead, just say, "You have a dancer's dream body." It disarms the stranger lady right away making her like an old frined; these simple words have never failed me. Dancing is an art of communication.

Count one more in the creeped out camp.

[contracheck]

Count one more in the creeped out camp.

So, what's new? Everybody is in that camp and I have no one in my camp except for some lukewarm symphasizers.

[GJB]

Another set of views that seems to concur with what the women here are saying:

http://www.esquire.com/features/what-she-wants-0208

[cornutt]

So, what's new? Everybody is in that camp and I have no one in my camp except for some lukewarm symphasizers.

Hey, CC, I know where you're at. But guys like us lost that battle a long time ago. In fact, we lost before we even knew there was a battle. There's nothing we can do about it now; these are simply the times we live in. I know you had the best of intentions. But let it go. Otherwise it'll drive you crazy.

[cornutt]

cornutt...don't get me wrong a guy can tell me I look lovely or comment on my appearance in general, but a stranger who makes a comment as extreme as that about my body in it's totality has, imo, has overstepped his bounds regardless of the era

I'm not sure. Yes, if you go back the centuries, compliments addressed to women (at least by gentlemen) were stated in far more flowery prose, yes. On the other hand, you have to remember that that era's standards were a lot more puritan, too. In his own day, many of Shakespeare's works were considered racy, bordering on downright vulgar. So I don't really know.

I do know this: as every politician knows, effective communication is determined by how the listener perceives the spoken words, not by the speaker's intent. It is up to the speaker to project the intended meaning to the listener. And until telepathy is invented, we're stuck with that. Words intended for social interaction (as opposed to, say, technical jargon) are very much an artifact of the times and culture that they exist in. They often map rather poorly to another time or culture. Which is a fancy way of saying when in Rome, speak Italian.

[contracheck]

Hey, CC, I know where you're at. But guys like us lost that battle a long time ago. In fact, we lost before we even knew there was a battle. There's nothing we can do about it now; these are simply the times we live in. I know you had the best of intentions. But let it go. Otherwise it'll drive you crazy.

I am letting it go. A real man knows when to quit. Where is chivalry these days? Does anyone know?

[fascination]

I can appreciate the mine field cornutt...when my husband was a teacher I wasconstantly in fear that some young lady would misunderstand something...and in general, I think people can be too careless with their assumptions...but I still don't want some guy who has never even met me before, and I think that is a major point, telling me I have a great bod while I am already in his arms dancing...b/c frankly, I haven't had enough time to make a determination but I would find it a bit of a bold thing to say at the outset....shrug...but I do appreciate the frustration that conscientous men experience...and then there are men who just assume that women are lying when they say "hey, I wouldn't like that"....that is a very bad assumption and far more worrying than the original comment, which I accept that cc meant in some benign way...but society has always set the standard and a bunch of women here are saying..."dude, bad idea" and still being told it is a favor...helping to liven up their lives...not good imo...now back to OP....nucat....look,the fact that you even worry or care says alot about your character

[fascination]

oh...mini re-highjack, just heard an excellent soprano at the cso from huntsville...okay, BOT

[cornutt]

but I still don't want some guy who has never even met me before, and I think that is a major point, telling me I have a great bod while I am already in his arms dancing..

I understand, and I wouldn't expect different.

[cornutt]

oh...mini re-highjack, just heard an excellent soprano at the cso from huntsville...okay, BOT

Was it Karen Callaway? She's a fine soprano, and a very talented flautist too.

[fascination]

I will look her name up online...I don't have the program w/ me

[fascination]

I understand, and I wouldn't expect different.
and I can appreciate where you are coming from

[jennyisdancing]

I do know this: as every politician knows, effective communication is determined by how the listener perceives the spoken words, not by the speaker's intent.

Perfectly stated, and always well to keep in mind. Never assume the other person has the same worldview as you do.

[Josh]

I am letting it go. A real man knows when to quit. Where is chivalry these days? Does anyone know?

I think there is chivalry to be found in the ballroom dance community, a good bit of it in fact, overall. Please just understand that what most are saying here is that while your INTENT was chivalrous, the effect is probably not.

[contracheck]

I think there is chivalry to be found in the ballroom dance community, a good bit of it in fact, overall. Please just understand that what most are saying here is that while your INTENT was chivalrous, the effect is probably not.

My helpless feeling is that they are making a mountian out of mole hill; this is blown out of proportion beyond.

[danceronice]

I think it's the phrasing, I really do. Plus the playing to the idea that dancing is about hooking up. Because I don't have any problem with doors being held, or offers to help with my bag, or offering a hand to the floor. But direct comments on my body from someone I don't know? You BETTER be a judge or a coach or someone whose opinion can be construed as professional. If you're here for the social dancing, save it for once I get to know you and can know it's a joke. If you want to compliment a lady, say something nice about her dress or about her earrings or about her dancing, even. But saying something about her body is like saying something about her breasts or her rear--it implies you've been checking her out.

[Izzy20]

I think it's the phrasing, I really do. Plus the playing to the idea that dancing is about hooking up. Because I don't have any problem with doors being held, or offers to help with my bag, or offering a hand to the floor. But direct comments on my body from someone I don't know? You BETTER be a judge or a coach or someone whose opinion can be construed as professional. If you're here for the social dancing, save it for once I get to know you and can know it's a joke. If you want to compliment a lady, say something nice about her dress or about her earrings or about her dancing, even. But saying something about her body is like saying something about her breasts or her rear--it implies you've been checking her out.


I think you explained it perfectly.

We're not trying to gang up. Just giving you a woman's perspective on it.

[jennyisdancing]

Hey, CC, I know where you're at. But guys like us lost that battle a long time ago. In fact, we lost before we even knew there was a battle. There's nothing we can do about it now; these are simply the times we live in. I know you had the best of intentions. But let it go. Otherwise it'll drive you crazy.

Hey cornutt, please don't think of it as a battle, something that women 'won' or that men 'lost'. This is simply a discussion about how to treat people with empathy and respect. And yes, it goes both ways.
:cheers:

[fascination]

My helpless feeling is that they are making a mountian out of mole hill; this is blown out of proportion beyond.
please see my post in "underturning the VW thread"....not all disagreement is meant to de-moralize...:friend:

[fascination]

Hey cornutt, please don't think of it as a battle, something that women 'won' or that men 'lost'. This is simply a discussion about how to treat people with empathy and respect. And yes, it goes both ways.
:cheers:yea and I think women who have been in uncomfortable positions have strong feelings on it just as men who have paid for being badly misunderstood do as well...and both rightly so...and I think it is best that folks understand that there is no group ganign up here...none of us are in cahoots w/ one another to persecute anyone, but rather, given an honest assessment, which, if recieved in good faith, can only help

[Joe]

Which is a fancy way of saying when in Rome, speak Italian.
Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi.

[elisedance]

or 'when in rome, drink the red'?

[elisedance]

"Originally Posted by contracheck
No, no, it's wise not to learn keeping mouth shut; dancing in silence, especially with a stranger, is like dancing with a dead body. It creates unnecessary uneasiness and tension. Instead, just say, "You have a dancer's dream body." It disarms the stranger lady right away making her like an old frined; these simple words have never failed me. Dancing is an art of communication."

Hey, CC, you can say those words to me any day and get a smile and thank-you back!

OK, so may be I have no shame, but I'm also older..... Besides, I think a lot - maybe all - depends on how they are said. With your obvious charm and a nice southern or English accent they wouldn't be creepy at all - OTH....

[rjcbear]

yea and I think women who have been in uncomfortable positions have strong feelings on it just as men who have paid for being badly misunderstood do as well...and both rightly so...and I think it is best that folks understand that there is no group ganign up here...none of us are in cahoots w/ one another to persecute anyone, but rather, given an honest assessment, which, if recieved in good faith, can only help

Fasc,

Thank you for the post. IHO this is a community of people that love to dance and in a cyber way have become friends and the best advise will always come from a friend.
There are so many ways to break the ice and be very complementary of a lady. All we men need to do is use a little bit of common sense.

Maybe we need to start a new thread where DF ladies can post some good ice breaker lines that bee use on them and some of us can use them.

Just my humble opinion

[nucat78]

or 'when in rome, drink the red'?

"Tua verba gerrae sunt" is my favorite.

[cornutt]

Hey cornutt, please don't think of it as a battle, something that women 'won' or that men 'lost'. This is simply a discussion about how to treat people with empathy and respect. And yes, it goes both ways.

I'm sorry; I did a poor job of explaining. The boys-vs-girls thing wasn't really what I was getting at; I think it's just one symptom of a larger problem. What I was getting at was more like this: In a previous era, people respecting each other as individuals was more the default condition, if you will. When you met someone you didn't know, it was assumed that they had respect for you and vice versa. Anyone received respect in all social interactions until and unless they proved, by their words and actions, that they didn't deserve it. In fact, there were some rather elaborate social rituals for demonstrating to someone that you had disrespect for them (dueling being an extreme example); ordinary insults were unlikely to get the attention of the intended victim unless it was a real zinger.

Nowdays, we've all been dissed so much by people and institutions that we come into contact with (think of when was the last time that you actually got good service from a customer service call center :rolleyes:), that we assume, in any new interaction with someone we haven't met before, that they will disrespect us. They have to prove otherwise. Respect involves trust, and in an interaction where neither party knows if they can trust the other, it's a Mexican standoff: who trusts first? Sadly, the answer in a lot of social interactions these days, is "neither". We're all walking on eggshells in a lot of our inter-personal interactions. Think about the workplace, for example. How carefully do you have to watch what you say to co-workers and such? There are just waaay too many people who are looking for an excuse to get offended about something, and these days, they have the law on their side. One of the great things about dancing is that it's a shelter from that trend; we can speak to each other in ordinary friendly terms without fear of being sued, and if we accidentally say something to offend each other, we can (or at least should) accept it graciously as the faux pas that it was rather than treating every wrong word as a gauntlet slap.

I realize that we've gone way OT here, and I apologize for being one of the instigators of that, but I think it's been a worthwhile discussion.

[elisedance]

the grass grows best in the sun?
I think I have something wrong...

[fascination]

Fasc,

Thank you for the post. IHO this is a community of people that love to dance and in a cyber way have become friends and the best advise will always come from a friend.
There are so many ways to break the ice and be very complementary of a lady. All we men need to do is use a little bit of common sense.

Maybe we need to start a new thread where DF ladies can post some good ice breaker lines that bee use on them and some of us can use them.

Just my humble opinionstart one...honest, feel free...we used to have one similar..."nicest thing anyone ever said to you while dancing" or something like that....ftr, speaking only for myself, my intent was to inform of my own perspective so that cc might be ware of the unintended consequences of such a statement....it was only his later commentary that required some restraint on my part

[jennyisdancing]

start one...honest, feel free...we used to have one similar..."nicest thing anyone ever said to you while dancing" or something like that....

cool idea, maybe a 'sticky' thread for "Icebreaker lines" or something like that?

[fascination]

I'm sorry; I did a poor job of explaining. The boys-vs-girls thing wasn't really what I was getting at; I think it's just one symptom of a larger problem. What I was getting at was more like this: In a previous era, people respecting each other as individuals was more the default condition, if you will. When you met someone you didn't know, it was assumed that they had respect for you and vice versa. Anyone received respect in all social interactions until and unless they proved, by their words and actions, that they didn't deserve it. In fact, there were some rather elaborate social rituals for demonstrating to someone that you had disrespect for them (dueling being an extreme example); ordinary insults were unlikely to get the attention of the intended victim unless it was a real zinger.

Nowdays, we've all been dissed so much by people and institutions that we come into contact with (think of when was the last time that you actually got good service from a customer service call center :rolleyes:), that we assume, in any new interaction with someone we haven't met before, that they will disrespect us. They have to prove otherwise. Respect involves trust, and in an interaction where neither party knows if they can trust the other, it's a Mexican standoff: who trusts first? Sadly, the answer in a lot of social interactions these days, is "neither". We're all walking on eggshells in a lot of our inter-personal interactions. Think about the workplace, for example. How carefully do you have to watch what you say to co-workers and such? There are just waaay too many people who are looking for an excuse to get offended about something, and these days, they have the law on their side. One of the great things about dancing is that it's a shelter from that trend; we can speak to each other in ordinary friendly terms without fear of being sued, and if we accidentally say something to offend each other, we can (or at least should) accept it graciously as the faux pas that it was rather than treating every wrong word as a gauntlet slap.

I realize that we've gone way OT here, and I apologize for being one of the instigators of that, but I think it's been a worthwhile discussion.hmm...interesting points cornutt...I will have to give this some thought...b/c my initial view would be that precisely b/c in ballroom there is often the presumtion of mutual respect, I would find an initial comment from a stranger about my body to work against what is already initial goodwill...I do agree that the larger society is just full of people oon the defensive waiting to be po-ed about something...but I don't see that in dance....but I would find that someone vocalizing their assessment of my physical attributes as a first choice to be NOT respectful...having said that, my response wouldn't be to pounce on them with a full measure of scorn and insult...but I would be far more cautious than had they chosen something a bit more subtle...but I am gonna think about that...and, btw...I agree, sometimes a conversation goes afield and is worth it...or a thread has been responded to fairly exhaustively and these things happen...shrug

[fascination]

cool idea, maybe a 'sticky' thread for "Icebreaker lines" or something like that?
knock yerselves out...