the basics

[goldfish]

hi all, i'm pretty new to dancing and was wondering: i want to do the basics right, and after a dance camp, it hit me that although i thought i *was* doing them right, there's soooo much more in say, a turn, lindy circle or a swingout than i ever imagined. where you put your weight, the "and" beats, frame...

and then thing is, i don't necessarily know that i'm doing it wrong - i mean, my partners don't always notice - until a teacher goes, hey you're not finishing up your triple step properly...etc. how do you know you're doing it right? what does "right" feel like?

i don't want to start with lousy basics since that's the foundation of, well, everything. but i don't have the money for private after private (yet!).

i've heard dancers say that they did complex things, variations and styling, and then had to go right back to the basics and unlearn a lot of bad habits. is there any way of preventing this? or is that learning/dancing's natural cycle? :)

oh, and follows are always talking about how great a really really good lead feels. on the flip side, what makes a really good follow? other than doing everything backwards and in heels... :P

[cl5814]

Goldfish,

now that you know what you are suppose to be doing, you just need to practice that. Consider yourself lucky that you found out while still learning/getting comfortable with the basics, rather than much later when you would need to correct the bad habit(s). Believe me, i am suffering through the bad habits in some of my dances.

[Jmatthew]

You could write a million pages on this and never say everything that needs to be said. It's much much easier to see and evaluate, but...

1) while you're new focus hard on hitting all your triple steps.

2) Make sure you're bouncing into the floor, not up into the air

3) Make sure your arm is staying still on one, and that you're stepping away from your partner to lead her, rather than pulling your arm back to lead her forward.


That's a godo start anyway :)

[Neil]

I think that no matter how good you are, there is always better. I don't think "right" exists.

As far as defining a good follower... I would say that a beginner follower looks for a clue to know what step I'm doing, then she does that step. I really good follower is so aware of my movements that she does he step as I'm doing mine. The two of us move with such synchronicity that it's like when two voices come together in perfect harmony. Every movement she does, from her feet to her hand styling and head whips feel like they are coming from my lead.

[Vince A]

I think that no matter how good you are, there is always better. I don't think "right" exists.

As far as defining a good follower... I would say that a beginner follower looks for a clue to know what step I'm doing, then she does that step. I really good follower is so aware of my movements that she does he step as I'm doing mine. The two of us move with such synchronicity that it's like when two voices come together in perfect harmony. Every movement she does, from her feet to her hand styling and head whips feel like they are coming from my lead.
. . . as if they could read your mind??? When they are that good, I seem to feel my inadequacies come out, then I get plagued with them and sometimes cannot dance.
However, I actually could "feel" what you wrote, and I agree. My only "knock" of a good follower would be if they said they could "follow anybody," which definitely underestimates the dancing abilities of good leaders!

[d nice]

There are lots of styles that will influence where you should be on any given count and the best way to get there...

If we look at the commonalities we find that a leader should:

1. use an athletic posture. Your weight should be carried on the ball of your foot, your knee should be bent over the ball of your foot, your hips should be pulled back, and your sternum should be over your bent knee. This allows you to make directional changes by pushing with the leg without having to adjust your body weight forward backward or to either side first, allowing better balance.The depth of the flex/bend is unimportant in general (the faster you go the lower your body needs to be, but that will generally be pretty obvious and natural) but the elationship outlined must be maintained.

2. always move from their center, moving their body to create, redirect, slow, and stop their followers movement. NOT the arm. The arm can be used to further manipulate or fine tune the momentum, if you desire, but it is extraneous.

3. use small, clear, steps, lift your feet off the floor don't drag them, keep them under your body, keep your rhythms clear, flex into the floor and push out into the next step, and commit all your weight to your full steps, never split your weight on a count.

4. prepare your follower for movement. Your body should always start shifting in the direction you want your follower to travel in the count before you want her to start going there. if you are going to lead two swingouts (lindy turns) in a row the second triple of the first step should be moving backwards to create leveraged tension so when your first step backwards is a smooth transition.

5. Use proper frame. Frame is created by torso muscles, the muscles that control how the arm moves in relation to the body. When your lats and pecs are engaged your arm will have a limited range of motion as far as how it travels away and towards the body before the momentum is transfered into the body. Arm muscles should be as relaxed as possible at all times. As a general rule you should never consciousely attempt to make your arm muscles active.

6. Use leveraged tension and compression to lead. This is what connection is all about. The five previous steps should create this partner dynamic, but I include it as its own item so you can self correct. If you are unable to achieve or maintain leveraged tension (the bodies centers having a slight to strong pull from each other) or compression (the bodies having a slight or strong push towards each other) one or more of the previous five steps is being done incorrectly.

Remember: As important as technique is... spirit is the soul of the dance. Have fun, don't get to concerned about techniique on the dance floor, thats what practicing is for.

[d nice]

As far as defining a good follower... I would say that a beginner follower looks for a clue to know what step I'm doing, then she does that step. I really good follower is so aware of my movements that she does he step as I'm doing mine.

I'd say that a mediocre follower is aware of your movements and steps as you do. A good follower steps after you do, and a great follower makes you make her step.

I'll let Sue pipe in with the things that make a world-cass follower.

[SDsalsaguy]

Remember: As important as technique is... spirit is the soul of the dance. Have fun, don't get to concerned about techniique on the dance floor, thats what practicing is for.
So very, very true Damon! And a great point to reiterate!

[Neil]

...When they are that good, I seem to feel my inadequacies come out, then I get plagued with them and sometimes cannot dance...

Been there, done that. When a girl is so good that I want to dance with her, then she's so good that I'm too intimidated to ask. ;) So, I hardly ever ask anybody to dance. Really, I can go months without asking any girls to dance. I'm terrible. I hardly ever say no though, even when I would rather not dance.

[suek]

DISCLAIMER: If any sarcasm creeps in here, please forgive it. Joe Lanza (remember BlackSheep and his Magic Pill?) has resurfaced on our local SactownSwing board and is driving me and eveyone else insane! I just read his rants du jour and there might be some leftover sarcasm in me. It's not directed at anyone here. Believe me.
As far as defining a good follower... I would say that a beginner follower looks for a clue to know what step I'm doing, then she does that step. A really good follower is so aware of my movements that she does he step as I'm doing mine.
I'd say that a mediocre follower is aware of your movements and steps as you do. A good follower steps after you do, and a great follower makes you make her step.Absolutely agree that my job is to follow (look it up: To come or go after; proceed behind--first definition in dictionary.com). If I'm looking for clues so I can do the step exactly when my lead is doing his, I'm thinking and anticipating. Ask Damon how much he likes that! There's a lag (that would be the after/behind part) created by the movement that generates in the lead's body and--with his frame engaged--is communicated through his hand to mine (or wherever our connection point happens to be in the moment--doesn't have to be the hands), and with my frame engaged my body is thus moved. That's what Damon's talking about (and he will certainly clarify if I get it wrong) with the mediocre/good/great comment above. I try to be mediocre as little as possible. (Wish I could say I never get in my head and never anticipate, but that would be lying.) When I'm good my steps are a hair (or a quarter or a half a beat, depending on everything: our connection, the tempo, you name it) behind my lead's. When I'm great I'm just stepping/doing footwork underneath my own body and my lead makes me move. Period. Simple. Simple but not easy.
I'll let Sue pipe in with the things that make a world-class follower.Sigh. You know I had to go to the car to get my notebook. Talk about simple but not easy: I didn't trust myself to retain these Four Rules of World-Class Following and repeat them correctly. Here they are. All you need to know:
1. Posture (see the zillion previous posts on the athletic posture, sternum over knees, bounce into the ground)
2. Frame engaged
3. Feet underneath my body and constantly moving (doing footwork)
4. Let the leader initiate, change and halt my movement
Oh yeah and 5. Have fun.

[suek]

Okay I'll embarrass myself and admit just how much assumption there is in my dancing and share the ongoing series of Ahas (or is that Duhs?) I keep having and having and having.......

My changes of direction are led. My stops and sways and stalls are led. My holds in Balboa are led. My Charleston kicks are led. All I need to do -- ALL I GET TO ASSUME -- is that I'm stepping underneath myself. In the direction I was last sent. Any variation -- kick, up-hold, down-hold, any damn thing -- is not something I'm to guess or figure out. It's freaking led.

And that's why I am behind, or after the lead. His move makes mine.

Simple.

But not easy.

[goldfish]

His move makes mine.
.

WOW. i gotta remember that. it's not duh at all... it's more than just imitation or mimicry. it's... it's...letting yourself follow.

okay now that was duh :)

i gotta agree with the "good leaders" part Vince, cause i'm just starting and i don't quite have my frame flexibly-firmly in place all the time, nor do i have my footwork done perfectly (gotta practice!), so it's gotta be some good leads out there making it all work, and making it all fun :) three cheers for you gents/ladies

i've seen some lindyhoppers that have really straight posture... their legs bend but their backs are like pokers. is that just personal style?

[KevinL]

hi all, i'm pretty new to dancing and was wondering: i want to do the basics right, and after a dance camp, it hit me that although i thought i *was* doing them right,

how do you know you're doing it right? what does "right" feel like?

i don't want to start with lousy basics since that's the foundation of, well, everything. but i don't have the money for private after private (yet!).

is there any way of preventing this? or is that learning/dancing's natural cycle? :)


First, do what Damon said, he's the DF swing dance god.

"right" is different for everyone, and varies with location and dance style. Try working on whatever your local style is, and once you get the hang of that you can branch out to other styles and make it your own.

Is there a way to prevent having to ge back to learn the basics? Sure, do lots of basics classes from the beginning. Take beginning classes every single time you get the chance, and once you think you are doing what the teachers want, start focusing on what they are doing, but not bothering to tell the newbies.

Of course with that advice comes another bit of advice: once you think you've got a good feel for the basics starting doing intermediate/ advanced classes so that you get to dance with experienced people who will be able to lead/follow you better than the beginners.

A mixture of lots of basics, some intermediate classes and lots of social dancing will make you improve quickly.

Good luck.

Kevin

[Swing Kitten]

My changes of direction are led. My stops and sways and stalls are led. My holds in Balboa are led. My Charleston kicks are led. All I need to do -- ALL I GET TO ASSUME -- is that I'm stepping underneath myself. In the direction I was last sent. Any variation -- kick, up-hold, down-hold, any damn thing -- is not something I'm to guess or figure out. It's freaking led.

And that's why I am behind, or after the lead. His move makes mine.

Simple.

But not easy.

Definately not easy. How does this work with tandem charleston? I've yet to follow this succesfully during a dance except for when I know it's coming-- thus not truely following the lead for it. How does the lead tell me to kick and change my footwork through my hands from behind? I can follow gross weight changes but I would like to know how to follow it for real.

[suek]

My changes of direction are led. My stops and sways and stalls are led. My holds in Balboa are led. My Charleston kicks are led. All I need to do -- ALL I GET TO ASSUME -- is that I'm stepping underneath myself. In the direction I was last sent. Any variation -- kick, up-hold, down-hold, any damn thing -- is not something I'm to guess or figure out. It's freaking led.

And that's why I am behind, or after the lead. His move makes mine.

Simple.

But not easy.

Definately not easy. How does this work with tandem charleston? I've yet to follow this succesfully during a dance except for when I know it's coming-- thus not truely following the lead for it. How does the lead tell me to kick and change my footwork through my hands from behind? I can follow gross weight changes but I would like to know how to follow it for real.Kristen, the lead into TC or the lead for different moves once you're in TC? Two different and juicy topix. Although the basic answer to both is the same. Everything is led. And all we have to do is continue the movement that was last led, at the same rate of speed, in the same direction, until it's changed by the lead.

[Swing Kitten]

Kristen, the lead into TC or the lead for different moves once you're in TC? Two different and juicy topix. Although the basic answer to both is the same. Everything is led. And all we have to do is continue the movement that was last led, at the same rate of speed, in the same direction, until it's changed by the lead.

I know the principle and I hold it as my ultimate goal while I dance. This is also where the confusion lies when I attempt to truely understand and apply this principle.

I tend to find the lead into TC to be tricky to interpret in it's own right but my main question is once I'm there what tells me to kick and furthermore, what tells me to kick when and where?

I can get myself through the step but only on the basis of thinking "oh this is tandem charleston -- I know how that goes" which may look like following (some lead might even think that it is) but it's not.

I need a private or just a knowlegable and patient partner to walk through it and help me break it down.

[suek]

Kristen, the lead into TC or the lead for different moves once you're in TC? Two different and juicy topix. Although the basic answer to both is the same. Everything is led. And all we have to do is continue the movement that was last led, at the same rate of speed, in the same direction, until it's changed by the lead.I know the principle and I hold it as my ultimate goal while I dance. This is also where the confusion lies when I attempt to truely understand and apply this principle. I tend to find the lead into TC to be tricky to interpret in it's own right but my main question is once I'm there what tells me to kick and furthermore, what tells me to kick when and where?

I can get myself through the step but only on the basis of thinking "oh this is tandem charleston -- I know how that goes" which may look like following (some lead might even think that it is) but it's not.Absolutely. I totally get this and it is no longer working for me. Thanks a million to the looks I get from my leads who are also my teachers. Those "okay lead yourself, turn yourself, come forward unled if that's what you really want to do. OR you could try letting me lead and see what that feels like" moments. Sigh.

I need a private or just a knowlegable and patient partner to walk through it and help me break it down.I asked Damon to focus on TC in a recent private and he patiently did the same move over and over and over and over until AHA I got it that it's exactly the same. I continue in the same direction doing the same footwork until I am led to turn, step, yadda yadda. It is never my freaking job to anticipate -- Oh I know what this is and I'm supposed to turn now! -- Never. I know I probably sound completely boring and I'm probably repeating myself. Imagine how it is for me as I get the same lesson over and over and over until I 1) can hear it and 2) practice it enough to make the physical connection.

There are better words for this I'm sure, but this is the best I've got this moment.

[Bronzestudent]

Hey Goldfish,

Being a beginner myself, but with more experience than I had a couple years ago, I've learned a few things about the Basics.

But you may be referring more to Swing than other Ballroom dances like Waltz and Foxtrot. You'll eventually add more flair and different technique to the footwork in those dances and others. I can't recall any more I've learned about Swing basic steps. But definetely, pay attention and concentrate on good technique on your basics. It will become 2nd nature and pay off soon.
On how a good follow feels - wow! Maybe it just takes a while for the Lady to feel comfortable in her role as one following the guy. But some women just feel lightweight and highly responsive on the floor. Different dances will call for different feels. Like, Tango has a different feel than Waltz, and different from any Swing dance. But what I've picked up from different ladies I've danced with, they like gentle leads. Firm, so they know what you're doing and don't feel like they're going to push me over, especially in moves that require using eachother's weight and resistance, but gentle and timely are always important. And, I feel comfortable with a girl if she's on time with the music, not swaying or rocking too much, and feels gently responsive to my leads. And don't feel too embarassed if you get run into somebody while you're dancing. The guy should keep that from happening, but it takes time to learn to navigate well.
Maybe that's helpful, it's been good for me to organize my thoughts for you.

[d nice]

The lead into tandem charleston should be similar to a cross-hand inside turn, except the leader brings your right arm real close to your body which prevents you from traveling across his body as and halts your turn so you are "butt to belly button". That same right to right connection should redirect your momentum backwards as the leader takes your left hand which brings you into a back step with your left foot. From this point on the leader is shifting his body, and therefore yours, into charleston rhythm.

He leads the gross body movements, the moving fore and back, and the timing of it, your kicks are really your choice, but they should be understated, more floating swings and stretches of the leg rather than forceful kicks.

[goldfish]

He leads the gross body movements, the moving fore and back, and the timing of it, your kicks are really your choice, but they should be understated, more floating swings and stretches of the leg rather than forceful kicks.

wow the amount of theory that goes into a split-second move baffles the mind... :shock:
this was useful though. i've noticed happier looks on my leads' faces when i was less... energetic about the process :P i had an epiphany the other day during a class when the teacher kept emphasizing the floor and connecting with the floor.... that's when i realized that you don't really hop in lindy hop :wink:

But definetely, pay attention and concentrate on good technique on your basics. It will become 2nd nature and pay off soon.

And don't feel too embarassed if you get run into somebody while you're dancing. The guy should keep that from happening, but it takes time to learn to navigate well.

*chuckles* yeah i've had a couple of crashes on the dance floor, but hey it's crowded it happens. didn't break anyone's bones yet. but its a good lesson (for me anyways) in dancing smaller steps and being more aware of my surroundings. i try to look out for the lead too so (s)he doesn't go slamming into someone behind whilst he/she's trying to watch my back :)

hmm yeah i think the lead varies from person to person. i've had leads tell me to have a bit more frame, lots more frame, some leads perfectly happy with the amount of frame i have...etc. so i just try to keep the amount of frame comfy for me but sort of match theirs too... not sure if that's right though.

a thought on footwork. i do work on my basic steps (triple step! triple step!) but when my (occassionally) advanced partners start to do all these hybrid steps (some pilfered from salsa, tango, or variations all over the place) and fancy footwork, is it better to just do my basic steps or to try to imitate whatever it is they're doing? i mean, following the trajectory and direction of the lead is one thing, but when your feet don't know what on earth is going on... *tangled up*
[/i]

[suek]

a thought on footwork. i do work on my basic steps (triple step! triple step!) but when my (occassionally) advanced partners start to do all these hybrid steps (some pilfered from salsa, tango, or variations all over the place) and fancy footwork, is it better to just do my basic steps or to try to imitate whatever it is they're doing? i mean, following the trajectory and direction of the lead is one thing, but when your feet don't know what on earth is going on... *tangled up*
[/i]Great question. When I was starting out I would get all caught up (in more ways than one!) trying to match the fancy footwork of my more advanced leads. I think it was Damon who told me that what's important is for our upper bodies to match. Likely fewer people will be looking at our feet -- if they're looking at us at all. Now granted we have this tendency to dance LH looking at our feet --wow cool look what I can do! -- and I still get into that Oh he's doing scissors I will too! thing. But if I miss it or I don't know it and even when I do catch it AND whenI know it and can match it my main job is to follow his lead, stay connected and match his energy and movement. What this means for me now is that my lead can break into some amazing syncopation that I just don't understand and I will do a little hip shake or mess around (jazz step that's a circular hip movement). Don't know how it looks; I do know I almost always get a smile from my lead. (Actually I do know how it looks and that's why I use it... insert evil grin here.)

I guess I can just take this back to my basic foundation of being a world-class follow. Remember rule#3 from my earlier post: 3. Feet underneath my body and constantly moving (doing footwork). That and rule #1: Have fun. That covers it.

[d nice]

The leader does not lead footwork, he leads body movement. Some body movement forces your feet to fit into certain patterns/rhythms, others suggest a specific pattern/rhythm, others don't make any suggestion at all.

Don't worry about your feet. It will just hold you back. The leader moves your body, you let him. When he leads something from tango, he should be making your body move in a very "Controlling" fashion in so far as your steps will be placed by his lead. When the figures are open like from salsa just keep stepping as needed, don't worry about triple-steps and step-steps, your body if relaxed will take care of itself, what it can't do is the responsiblity of the leader.

Any pattern or figure that requires you to know what your part is rather than just following is choreography not social dancing.

[jdavidb]

Any pattern or figure that requires you to know what your part is rather than just following is choreography not social dancing.

Explanations of patterns for beginning and intermediate Lindy Hop that I have been exposed to tell the follower to start by matching the leader's rock step or step step, as an example. She knows it's coming. It's a choreographed rock step. Do followers have to learn how to just do the post-rock step movement even if they don't catch the rock step, or does the leader's body tell her "rock step" and she'll catch it? Could we even go so far as to say she should never rock step in closed position unless it's led? Should we be drilling in closed position with suprise rock steps so she can get used to only doing it in the context of following? What it looks like in social dance floor videos I've seen is that the rock step or initiating step step is a leader's move/signal; the follower doesn't have to mirror it. She just takes it as a signal and does everything afterwards. Is that right?

[funkyfreak]

Could we even go so far as to say she should never rock step in closed position unless it's led?

In closed position if the follower tries to rockstep and the leader isn't leading her center into one, it either - a) hurts, or b) massively breaks connection, or both. Since there is no set number of steps one should do before a rockstep is put in (if there is one at all), you're right - the follower should not be doing one unless led. A closed position movement could be a 10-count movement that the leaders wants to do, for example, so the follower would want to continue letting the lead dictate her center instead of using an arbitrary number of counting to decide where her center is going.

-FF

[d nice]

The followers footwork is dictated by where her body goes... her body movement is dictated by where the leader directs it.

Good lindy hop does not use signals, but a "body lead". The leader uses his body movement to create momentum and give direction to the follower. She should never have to guess, anticipate or fill in.

[delamusica]

Remember: As important as technique is... spirit is the soul of the dance. Have fun, don't get to concerned about techniique on the dance floor, thats what practicing is for.

Well said!!!

[jdavidb]

There was something where they explained follower's swiveling, and they said something like "she can now choose to swivel anywhere in which a triple step isn't an essential part of 8-count patterns". This was written material, so I may have misunderstood it, or I'm remembering it wrong. If I've got it right, this means she can almost always omit mirroring a leader's step steps / rock steps. If that's a bad idea...

Would it be constructive, pointless or destructive to drill in closed position with the leader doing suprise rock steps? We could also add any step step variations not just rock step. The bulk of the dance could be the leader mixing 2 count single steps and/or triple steps, but putting in rock steps only sometimes rather than turning every set into a 6 count pattern. We could do something like this well beyond 200 bpm. Is it a bad idea, useless idea or a good idea? I'd like to get the followers to where they don't make step stepping a habit, yet quickening their response to leader's step steps.

So, what's better? Let followers know they don't have to worry about religously following rock steps, or get them to practice instant response to leaders' rock steps or both?

[d nice]

Actually the follower can choose to move her feet anyway she likes as long as she ALWAYS follows two rules...

1. She allows her body to be moved by her leader.
Not just going where she thinks he wants her, or even where does he wants her, but where he puts her.

2. She keeps her feet under her and commits her weight to each step while staying connected.
Her physical connection and full commitment to her movement allows the leader to know which foot she is on without having to look down, as well as able to leade her in any direction despit epossibly being on the "wrong" foot.

Lindy Hop is not really about moves, but quality of movement. The definitive interaction between leaders and followers is the Swing Out, the leveraged tension and transition to compression and back, creating that elastic movement. Dancing in closed and mixing up your steps between step-steps and triples is fine... what you want to remember though is the leaders body creates the followers movement giving her direction, speed, and often time dictating how her feet should move when in closed position.

You cannot replace any step-step with the swivel in lindy hop. The follower attempting to swivel on 5-6 of the swing out will most often lead to "disaster". More than worrying about footwork the follower should really stick to just starting on the right foot and letting the leader guide her. If she keeps her feet under her, commits her weight to the direction the leader creates, and keeps stepping she will find it much easier not to anticipate, there will be absolutely no need.

This would be so much easier to demonstrate all of this stuff in about 30 seconds. If I was in the Atlanta area I'd do it for free. *sigh* Well her's to you and your lindy crew. Its hard learning from written instructions and videos... You might want to invest in the first few video's in Steven Mitchell's series. I haven't found any tapes that break things down as simply that don't try and force a specific "dance style" on you.

[jdavidb]

"Starting on the right foot", that clears up a good bit of it. I just need more faith in them quickly catching step steps & rock steps as we learn it. Once I see them consistently catching the first step steps inward of a swingout, bring back in, etc, I'll be much less worried about the followers.

I know I can start on the wrong foot and fix it immediately. They can too even though I worry about 'em not being able to.

What I meant by swiveling on everything except triple steps were more like half swivels -- one foot at a time. Stepping swivels not the official 2-footed hard swivel.

We will be learning a lot about Lindy Hop lead/follow sync once we're doing the swingout.

Too bad we have two shows April 2nd causing us to have to spend our rehearsal time doing East Coast Swing... locked in that 6-count box of make it or break it rock steps. I like ECS, but this is a bad time to be drilling on it like we are.

This would be so much easier to demonstrate all of this stuff in about 30 seconds. If I was in the Atlanta area I'd do it for free. *sigh* Well her's to you and your lindy crew.

Yeah if you ever do come to GA, we're there!

[Swing Kitten]

2. She keeps her feet under her and commits her weight to each step while staying connected.

how does this relate to even some of the more simple drops and "excessive" leans? Or does that come from knowing your partner and working it out in your own time?

[funkyfreak]

On an excessive "lean" or "drop" the follow still has to be connected (rule 2) and let the leader move her weight (rule 1). Also, on most leans and drops the follow doesn't lift both feet, so she can still control herself with them.

-FF

[Swing Kitten]

I understand the importance of connection (it's the entire point!) but rule #2 clearly states that her feet are to remain under her... hence my question.

I could be wrong but I don't think a follow could lift her feet during a lean or a drop-- her feet are the folcrum... if she could without falling on her butt it would be a dip or some sort of lift no? the weight would be distributed differently

[d nice]

"Starting on the right foot", that clears up a good bit of it. I just need more faith in them quickly catching step steps & rock steps as we learn it. Once I see them consistently catching the first step steps inward of a swingout, bring back in, etc, I'll be much less worried about the followers.

A lot of it is them "letting go" of their pre-conceptions. Once the follower stops trying to step someplace, the leader can actually lead her either forward for the step-step, or back for the rock-step. Of course if the leader isn't leading it, then she has nothing to follow and it reinforces the idea that she has to do it herself.

What I meant by swiveling on everything except triple steps were more like half swivels -- one foot at a time. Stepping swivels not the official 2-footed hard swivel.

Ack! As a general rule the follow does not want her wait split between both feet unless the leader has initiated it. The swivels used in lindy hop and even in east coast have her wait on one foot, twisting her body at the waist which cause her base foot swivel as the other foot begins to step down.

This would be so much easier to demonstrate all of this stuff in about 30 seconds. If I was in the Atlanta area I'd do it for free. *sigh* Well her's to you and your lindy crew.

Yeah if you ever do come to GA, we're there!

Well if I make it out that way anytime soon, I'll let you know.

[d nice]

The rules are in order of precedent. SO while as important as keeping her feet underneath her is... it is abondoned when it contradicts with number one.

[Swing Kitten]

Gotcha-- thanks

[alfborge]

I'm pretty amazed at this thread. There are lots of good points from all over, and I enjoyed reading it all.

To answer one of the earliest questions, "what makes a good follower":
- I like followers that looks at me once in a while.
- I really like followers that smiles at me once in a while.
- I like followers that at the end of the song looks like they had fun dancing with me.
- I like followers that don't anticipate my moves.
- I like followers that hears the music and can help me hit the hilights.
(If my follower hilights the music, it helps me to see the hilights as well, so that I can hit it next time :)

The 4 first are most important, and they haven't been stressed earlier for some reason...

What makes a good lead goes somewhat in the same manner:
- He should be aware of the follower, look at him/her and smile once in a while.
- He should take some time early in the dance to find out what the follower can do, so that when he starts doing fancy stuff later he knows pretty much what will work and what will only make the follower confused.

I won't go into the technical details on leading/following since this has been covered very good by better dancers than me.

So, to sum it up:
- A good follower makes the lead feel like a good (and attractive) dancer.
- A good lead makes the follower feel like a good (and attractive) dancer.

--
Have fun dancing, and hopefully we'll meet at Herräng,
Alf